₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: All these things He said cannot be said and had not been said by any man, they try to stone him when He says things like this. Prophets that came before Christ ensured they kept a big gap between themselves and God, but the Jews understood what the son meant. Read the entire book of John and you will realise how close Christ made himself to God.l

Lol......

But Christ didn't project himself as all knowing because truthfully he isn't ........

All the things Christ knows was given to him by The Father......all Christ knows he was taught......

Ok let me ask you this question since you are stiff necked.......

Since by your definition The Father and Jesus are equal and infact co - equal in all aspects

1...Can the Father be given power and authority from GOD??......

2...Can the Father be given revelations from GOD??.....

3..Can God teach the Father??...

Or

1...Can the Father be under the authority of the Son??

2..Can the Father receive revelations,power and authority from Jesus Christ?.....

3..Can Jesus teach the Father??.....

Let's converse the interactions between the Father and the son and see if the rule of co-equality makes any sense......

shdemidemi: Unlock your mind and yourself to view from the perspective of the scriptures, may be your perspective and intuition could be renewed. You would as well say God is not all knowing, if Paul did not come and reveal some secrets now. I tell you again, the father, Christ and the Holy Spirit is God.

Lol....and sorry bro....before paul,the patriarchs of old never believed in the trinity....so you have no point......

Go and meet the Jews who read the torah and mention trinity to them and see if you would not be viewd as an unserious bible student.......

The new testament has fully revealed that the Father who is the one Yahweh remains the only all knowing GOD.......

His only son which he sent also revealed this important information unequivocally....

You should unlock that trinitarian mind of yours and come to terms that Jesus isn't all knowing....

benalvino: the point is when they see the contradiction then the add [other] so that it will look like jesus was created as a thing he created other thing. that is the contradiction they are trying to add... if there is non then you people will be happy to brag yes we prove he has a beginning without adding words to the bible...

So there is contradiction no matter how you try to run from it. you cant say they didn't add that word for no reason.

And I have not even opened the NWT to harp on the use of others in bracket........

If I was a NWT onlyist then you can put me in a choke hold.......

I am defining all the terms I have evoked using all other translations.......

We have a flock of people who believe Jesus had a beginning and who for once in there lives have never read the NWT......from guerira is one of them.....

And many others here on nairaland......

No Jew would pick up revelation 3:14 and read and not conclude that Jesus had a beginning.......

I have brought out similar and replica verses to hit the nail on the head.....but what have you done??....yap about the NWT.....

Am I using the NWT??........

And SHIII....

See these scriptures.....

I want to show you that when Jesus uttered statements when on earth he meant them and wasn't delusional because of being in human form.....
John 8:28

New Living Translation (©2007)
So Jesus said, "When you have
lifted up the Son of Man on the
cross, then you will understand
that I Am he. I do nothing on my
own but say only what the Father
taught me.


John 5:19

New Living Translation (©2007)
So Jesus explained, "I tell you the
truth, the Son can do nothing by
himself. He does only what he sees
the Father doing. Whatever the
Father does, the Son also does.


These scriptures would explain why Jesus recieves revelations from God the Father and knows only what he has seen the Father do or what the Father reveals to Him......

It is bleeding obvious that Jesus isn't all knowing both when on earth and when in heaven.....

shdemidemi: I answered your question before..God has you know him kept many secrets form man too-

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Jesus is in God as God is in Christ.. They are the same.

How does the above verse prove Jesus is all knowing like the Father .........

God as I know has also kept some secrets from Jesus.......how about that?.......



The all knowing Jesus would not be receiving revelations from his God if he already knows or have these revelations........

You're making a joke of yourself trying to prove what is not......

You might as well say John who received this same revelation that Jesus received is also GOD.....

And may I inform you once again that just as Jesus is in the Father,so also are we in Jesus........

true2god: The scripture compared Jesus to Melchisedek, the king of salem.

'Melchusedek is without father or mother, without descent, having neither beggining of days, nor end of life, but made like the Son of God...' (read Heb 7:1-28). The 'made like' there means 'just as' or 'just like', so that we dnt get it confused.

The Bible says Melchisedek has not beginning of days nor end of life, just like the son of God (Jesus).

Obvioslu the notion of Jesus being an angel is completely defeated cos ALL angels have beginning of days. I stand to be corrcted if im wrong.

The bible did not say much about Melchisedek and who\wat he represented, but only described him as 'king of salem (peace)' while christ was described as the 'prince of peace (salem)'..

And Jesus has a beginning...can you help benalvino bring out a verse that is a replica of revelation 3:14 from the scriptures that gives a different definition of one being the beginning of someone else's activity or works??.......

And for your info heb 7:3 in no way shows Jesus did not have a beginning......

Doesn't melchizedek have a beginning??....

Is melchizedek also God the Father??.....

shdemidemi: Similar to what I said earlier, you leave all the clearer parts of the scripture to base a doctrine on flimsy things that you still find confusing. The mention of God in itself is not singular but plural, In God we have the Holy Spirit, the father and Christ. The Holy Spirit and God can be used interchangeably as we noticed from the scriptures. If you understand this, you would understand what it means when the bible says 'God gave Christ'.

But from all the scriptures we know who this GOD is that is giving Jesus revelation....

You do remember when Jesus said he knows neither the day nor the hour but only the Father..??.........

I ask again.....is Jesus omniscient??.....

shdemidemi: Do you understand what the book of Revelation is? How does this verse tell you Jesus is not omnipotent and omniscient in heaven?

Smh!!!!.........

What is omniscience??...define it please for all of us to hear....

shdemidemi: Yes He is, He has every attribute of God. He is God. He has all the prerogative to keep what He does not want to reveal in the flesh, all those things He leaves in the custody of His Spirit. Example He would answer some questions saying 'only God knows' , he also said no one is good except God, the question is- was Christ really good? YES He was but He speaks as a man at certain times to identify with us.

Lol........the bolded is what will keep trinitarians deluded for all eternity....you just confirmed that Jesus was a liar and a fraud when he was in flesh...thank you....

Now let us see Jesus in heaven and see if he is omniscience...is he still omnipotent and omniscient in heaven??.....

New International Version
(©2011)
The revelation from Jesus Christ,
which God gave him to show his
servants what must soon take
place. He made it known by
sending his angel to his servant
John,


Is Jesus omniscient??.....

shdemidemi: Angels are spirit beings with the same nature of God but they lack the character(omniscient, omnipresent e.t.c) of God...

Fine.....you know angels have the same nature of God by virtue of the fact that they are spirits just as God is.......

And Yes they do lack some characters that both Jesus and the Father has.....

But may I ask you....

Is Jesus omniscience and omnipotent just like his God and Father??....

shdemidemi: You leave quotes that clearly tells you who Christ is, to look for one or two quote that confuse you. You then pick a doctrine out of these quotes that confuse you, wake up man.

And what are you on about??...

Your collegue defined firstborn to suit his stance......I have not even denied that those definitions are wrong.....I am saying the definition of firstborn as a whole applies to Jesus...you guys are the ones running away from the other definition which is predominant in the scriptures.......

Now who is the dubious person here??...

benalvino: go read my original post... see similar rendering from your own bible stop being biased.

contradiction just follow your beliefs.

Contradictions no follow.........you are not the one understanding...that is why from geurira has abandoned you to wallow in your pride.......

We have both asked you if the Father can be called the beginning of Gods creation.....your trap has been shut ever since on that question........

The funny thing is I have not even gone cloes to the NWT since I came to nairaland.......

Your own KJV is what we are going to use.......

benalvino: Go read the original post I can see that you haven't... I kill that your argument of firstborn, begotten, proverbs and rev 3:14. unless your eyes are holding then you can claim you didn't see... anyone reading this should read my first post on page one then read what he is saying now if it make sense

And I brought just one of many verses that killed your definition of beginning of....all you did was dance around like a clown..........

And should I bring out more verses to pin the only begotten issue??....or you want to run away??.....

There are still many verses on first born which you have evaded.........

All the definition of what firstborn and only begotten is applies to Jesus......

You are the adamant person here....

And you have failed to define what brought forth means.....

You just dey here dey shout kill kill.......

shdemidemi: Philippians 2:5-8
New International Version (NIV)
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

The bible says, Christ is in the very nature of God but made himself nothing. That debunks your Christ being a servant mentality cos the question is- was he really a servant? Of course not, according to that part of the scripture.

About Peter, you need to be very careful when reading or quoting Peter. He was not an Apostle to the church but to the Jews. The same way the ministry of Moses was fulfilled by Christ, and the ministry of John the Baptist was also ended by Christ, peter's ministry ended after Paul started his ministry ( as far as the church is concerned).

In the book of Acts-
Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” 12 And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes. 14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out 15 and saying, Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you.......

May I ask what nature or form are the angels in heaven??.....

Please answer

Bidam: your ideology which stands polls apart with what Jesus said in the bible. i now understand why your jesus is different from my Jesus. thanks for honestly answering that question for your folks.

Do you realize from your adamant stance that you are in effect saying we are equal to Jesus??......

How can a servant or son be equal to his master and Father respectively??....

If Jesus and his Father had to be equal they should have been twin brothers or sons of a different Father....

benalvino: nope... I don clear firstborn for you u still they use that term to say jesus was created SMH

Taaa...you no clear firstborn....you only quoted on firstborns that suited what you wanted....I have lots of firstborn quotes that shows the subject is infact the firstborn in the family of children........

You gave davids example....you gave that of ephraim....you gave that of isreal(which I even explained)....what about the rest firstborns in the scriptures which you evaded??.........

The scriptures apply the term firstborn to Jesus in all ramifications.....all the definition of what firstborn is applies to Jesus.......

benalvino: thank you... you tried but it was clear... Jesus is so important and if he was created their should be a lot saying the father created him.

And the lots ahave been shown but u close ya eyes..

1..He's Gods firstborn
2...Beginning of Gods creation
3..Image of God
4..Gods only begotten son..

If you get mind apply this expressions to the Father who is a co-equal with Jesus according to you and your ilks.............

......

All those expressions there are expressions used for persons who had a beginning.......

benalvino: now there are 3 beginning... if you are talking about rev 3:14... note rev 3:14 should be source of the creation of God... or ruler of the creation of God. check all the translation see that they vary. in genesis in the beginning God created the heaven and earth it didn't say he created Jesus... in john 1:1 Jesus was there in the Beginning and through him everything came into existence without him nothing came into existence... now link all this verse to Colossians 1:15... through him everything was created for him. now revisit rev 3:14 and tell me if you say jesus is the beginning of the creation of God the bible wont contradict itself?

He still insists its source even when similar renderings from the scriptures has said otherwise.......

Now with your source definition and ruler definition can't we assume the Father is also the beginning of Gods creation??.....

The holy spirit nkor??........

Put on your thinking caps and move on......

Even brought forth you have not defined till today so that you can evade proverbs 8:22-30 completely...you said you didn't know and never wanted to know.....

Its up to you bro......

And please I have scriptures to counter your only begotten definition,but I don't know if it would make any sense to you..............

please critically answer the question in all bold.....

benalvino: so the bible is lying?

Na zephaniah 12 dey make you sharp mouth like this??......

Na ona misunderstanding dey contradict the scriptures.......

deSika: deut 6:4
hear o isreal: the the lord our God is one lord

1 cor 8: 6
but to us there is but one God , the father ...and one lord Jesus Christ

in deut the lord is called God and he is one. in corinthans Jesus is the lord. Remember this lord was called God in deut now he is identified as Jesus.
Remember also the lord is one lord in deut.

Now father is God. Jesus is lord and lord is God therefore he is God [you may also consider removing the capital letters from the God as you are wont to do]

In deuteronomy 6:4 the tetragrammaton was used........and so you shouldn't even be having Lord there......

Its suppose to read:: Yahweh our God is 1 Yahweh.....

But let me keep you company....

Do you knw the reason why Jesus is called the one Lord in 1 corinthians 8:6??.....

Acts 2:36

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of
this: God has made this Jesus, whom you
crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”


The Father made Jesus Lord over man and the church....and so he is the 1 Lord while the Father is the 1 GOD....

But why are u even arguing when it is bleedn obvious that the Father is the 1 GOD and not a combination of Jesus and the holy spirit??....

You blind??......

deSika: so can you now call Jesus God. I want to know so i know that you are catching it little by little

We can call anything GOD.....

deSika: at the bolded.
1. JESUS is distinct from the father. The 3 persons are distinct. That explains the 'in our image' yet they are one, that explains the 'in his image'

2. JESUS IS equal with the father in essence. Would you want to argue with Phil 2:6. That says Jesus is in the form of God...equal with God. [Our image = his image in genesis]
is that how you answer a question. If you cant answer how the father gave Jesus the ability to create then am afraid to tell you that you are just wishing. We are not in a wishing palace.

Lol.....did you answer when the Father gave all of us the power to reason and think??.......

And how does Jesus being the image of the Father make him equal to him??....are u people drinking alomo bitters or what??......

Ok let me ask you......is the Father the image of the son??.......

The Father is greater than the son......chikena....

deSika: so having life equates to ability to create uhn. Clap for yourself.

Why do you think God can create??.....you dey dull yourself o...

deSika: Now check this out. John 3:16 ...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [ are you trying to say that whosoever believeth will have the ability to create]
john 10:10 i am come that they might have life and life abundantly. [so Jesus came to give us the ability to create according to Ijawkids gospel]

There talks about gaining eternal life,not having life in ourselves.......it is only Jesus that the Father has given that gift that is why Jesus would be able to ressurect millions in the future.........

Put your thinking caps on.......

deSika: phil 2 :6 Jesus being in the form of God...equal with God
john 5:18 ...Jesus said God was his father making himself equal with God
Jesus is distinct from God the father.
yes pls, by the time you are done, pls do let me know if you have decided to start calling Jesus mighty God since that verse called him that

So the moment I call the Father my Father I have now become equal with the Father??.....

I would call Jesus by his name.....the name mighty God applies to his being exalted as king of Gods kingdom....you don't have to call him the mighty GOD...

deSika: if Jesus is everlasting father to the children you talked about. What would God the father be to those children
Jesus is distinct from the father. Jesus is distinct from the holyspirit. Yet Jesus is called what The father is called and does what the father does. They have distinct roles

If the Father himself gave Jesus kids that in turn made Jesus act as a representative Father how does that in any way make Jesus the same as the Father who gave him these children??.....why ona dey mumu like this??........

The Father is still the Father of Jesus and all of us..........put on your thinking caps...

deSika: ok we then have to go to the greek translation.
intelligent dodger. Is sonhood his nature. GODS firstborn son is he a GOD as per his fathers nature or is he an angel spirit being as per been like angel Gabriel who does not have a work with creation

He is Gods firstborn son....isn't this enough??......

Jesus has been exalted above all other angels.......you no read am?......

His Father exalted him......

Jesus remains Gods servant and son for all eternity

benalvino: You they argue with the bible if so..
tell me when them pierce the father... Not just one verse. He called him self God almighty

Nobody pierced the Father.........

Father dey intact for heaven......

Na him only begotten son them pierce..

And Jesus isn't almighty God

benalvino: When the father give am? When he was in heaven or when he was a man on earth... Give us scriptures we no they for assumptions

but first you gree say the Father give am?

benalvino: Jesus is God... He became flesh n bled so what's prob?... From the start or the zillionth time I said Jesus is distinct from the father.

That same Jesus called him self God almighty

Not a single thing wrong with acts... This is one of the things you dont like because it proved the point. The word was God it became flesh back in revelation he is Called God Isaiah says he will see God at the resurrection with his eyes. So acts is not mistranslated...

and iI think we don tell you tire say Jesus no call himself almighty God....


he is not the Father nor an equal with his Father....


to us there is but one GOD the Father....



thank you....

deSika: i dont even understand you again. Is it that you agree that Jesus has a divine status but refuse to accord him that.

Would you be kind to show where the father gave the son the a divine status/deity.

But even if your story is correct that Jesus was given deity/divinity status. Then why cant you call him deity, why cant you call him God.

I know Jesus has a divine status which ofcourse the Father made him have..........

No need to call Jesus deity because we have to acknowledge the one GOD the Father.....

John 17:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might
know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ,
whom thou hast sent.


All angels are divine,I can't just run around calling them GOD......they all have names....Jesus has his name....

Call him by his name...the moment you call GOD it should be directed to the Father the one GOD over Jesus and evrybody....

benalvino: Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

acts is wrong rendering cause it debunk you... act called Jesus God...

say titus is wrong too... in your bible them add with his son's blood


Philippians 2:5-11

New International Version (NIV)


5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:


6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
you see why he bled? or is this passage rendered wrong again?

it says he made himself if you like bring that your wayo say na father make am nothing... even if no wahala he is GOD

Like a colleague once asked you....

Is Jesus the Father??.......

And as per the acts 20:28 quoted please go see how fellow trinitarian scholars dey discard the KJV's rendering......

.....

Well Jesus did bleed that we know...but not the Father which I recognize as the one and only true God....

deSika: this is really seriouswhat are you doing to yourself. Is Jesus called God in your bible. is this Jesus involved in creation (an exclusive God ability). so the bible does not make sense again because it calls Jesus God kwo. the bible calls Jesus God in so many places why cant you call him what the bible calls him.

So just Jesus being called God is all you want to hear abi??..

Then wahala no dey na...as long as you guys don't call him the Father who is the one God or equate Jesus with him then I no get problem.......

Even satan na God too....God no be anybody name...

deSika: you lost me on this one, can yu show where God the father gave jesus the ability to create. can you pls

Can you show me just one place in the scriptures where God gave man the ability to build aeroplanes??......

What ever the son can do it is the Father who has given him the power and has taught him.....

Read your scriptures...

deSika: no connection with what we are discussing, we are talking about the ability to create and not the possession of life. so stop dodging
now where did i do that.

This isn't dodging....why do you think the Father can create in the first place??.....is it not because he has life in himself??.....he granted that to his son....

deSika: see am not the the one equating Jesus with the father, its the bible that does that. the unfortunate thing is that when i show yu where it is in the bible, you will say my rendition doesnt make sense, just to deny what you have been shown. you are saying all the translations that translated it that way doont make sense even the greek it was translated from does not make sense. so how will you see the truth.


the bible says Jesus is the everlasting father, yet the father is also the everlasting father.
the bible says Jesus is mighty God, yet the father is mighty God

The scriptures never equates with Jesus with the Father you guys are the ones doing that...

Ok let's do this...

Jesus is called king of kings,nebuchadnezzar was also called king of kings....

Are they both equal??....

Translation is not even the issue here...understanding is the problem....

What you should have asked yourself is how would Jesus act as eternal Father....

Instead of asking you hurry to conclude he is the same with the Father,even when you know the Father in heaven is the Father of Jesus...make ona dey get sense small...

deSika: the one i have been trying to show you. that Jesus is called mighty God, a non God personality can never be called that name. everlassting father yet the father is everlasting
shey you dey see yourself, pls tell me that 'mighty God' is what even mortal has answered. keep dodging the truth.
my problem is that why would Jesus be called mighty God even when given rulership and you cannot call him mighty God, why, why, why. why would someone be called mighty God if he is not a mighty God.

And Jesus on earth emphatically has told you that he is lesser than his Father....what else do you want from him.....

Lol.....now try to figure out why Jesu would be called El Gibbor...

Rulership and power would be given to him,that is why he would be called that......

Abi you knw read when the Father give am kingdoms and power??.....would Jesus be called these names if his Father didn't exalt him??...eh mr desika...

And like I said the hebrew word el gibbor which is translated to mighty God has been applied to mighty earthly rulers in the bible...you want some few examples??

deSika: my dear yoou are not doing yourself good at all, you are confusing yourself, bigtime

I just answered your question on why Jesus would be called eternal Father and here you are closing your eyes.....

Read the scriptures and see how the prophecy in isaiah 9:6 applied to Jesus and not run around yapping about the trinity..

deSika: the son is what, an angel or a God
niv, kjv, youngs litteral, nasb, esv, aramaic, nlt all said 'his blood". so what are you now saying.

Is he the Father who is our one GOD??......

Son can bleed but the one God the Father can never and has never died nor bled before....


See this rendition..

Acts 20:28
Good News Translation (GNT)
28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all
the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in
your care. Be shepherds of the church of God,
[a] which he made his own through the blood of
his Son.[b]

the church of God which he bought with the
blood of his own Son. (JB).


the church of God which he obtained with the
blood of his own Son. (RSV)

Doesn't it sound nice ??.......

deSika: what category do you put the son. angel or God

Gods firstborn son...

deSika: when the names apply to him according to you, will you call him the mighty God.

No need to call him the mighty GOD....he is acting in that position to rid this world off badness..and he would hand over these kingdoms back to the Father who gave him and made him mighty...when that happens your eye go clear....he has a name..and his name is Jesus Christ...is that not enough??.....

benalvino: Lol you confused bro. The bible says he was at the beginning with the father and every single thing that came into existence was from him n nothing a single thing came into existence without him. And you agree that other is not in the bible. The only way to not contradict your self is to believe other is suppose to be in John 1:1 and collosians 1:15

I am not confused you are d one not understanding.....

Jesus was at the beginning with God when the universe was formed not before Jesus himself was the beginning of Gods creation..........

That is the point you're running from.....

Gods plan was creation....Jesus was the beginning of Gods plan(creation),then came the rest of what exists today(man,universe,angels etc).........

Jesus had a beginning.....

If you still feel like struggling go and explain the earlier replica verses I've evoked to explain one being the beginning of someone else's activity or work.........

Do that and reason from the scriptures......

benalvino: Despite that is his beliefs he won't admit to them.

If I answer this question make I no play ps3 again........

I don answer am tire oooo....

benalvino: There is no two beginning... You always seem to contradict your self. How can Jesus be there in the beginning with God then God later create him again giving Jesus a second beginning. You always contradict your self

Yeah there are no 2 beginnings.. But it depends on the beginnings....

There are no 2 beginnings for the universe and also for Jesus respectively.....because they both had a beginning(starting point)......

......

Jesus did not exist not until he became the begiining of Gods creation,Gods plan......

We are all in the plan of the Father but Jesus is the first of that plan........

benalvino: Godhead is same as deity or divinity. Jesus was fully divine by nature.

And who made that possible??,,,,,,,who granted him such divine status??.......

Who??....answer...

deSika: i must applaud your dodgentiantis. One minute your likes would be asking where does the bible call Jesus God but when you are shown you resort to "The scriptures call all of us GOD"

Lol....can the Father which is the one GOD I know bleed??....please check your rendering and see if it makes any sense......

deSika: Jesus is involved in creation (an exclusive ability of God, no man can create life) and then called God and you Ijawkid has the guts to equate him with man that cannot create life.

Is there any ability that isn't exclusive to God alone until he extends it to his servants??.......

Now I would ask you.....the life Jesus has in himself isn't it the Father who gave it to him??.......

The more you try to equate Jesus to his Father and God the more you are invariably equating man with Jesus........

Learn that bro....

deSika: The truth is staring at your face, bro i dont know why you keep denying it.

What truth??.....

deSika: Did you see 'mighty' in Isaiah 9:6. Does it not make a difference to you. Or will you now say "The scriptures calls all of us mighty GOD too"

Mighty is what even mortal men have answered .........

That scripture projects that Jesus would be a powerful ruler...one being a representative of God the Father in rulership...

If you had noticed,Jesus would not be called mighty God until he has been given rulership.....make ona dey open ona eye dey read.......

deSika: Isaiah even adds more sand to your garri. Did you see the word 'everlasting father '. What! Everlasting what! Bro Ijawkid pls can you confirm whether what am seeing is in your bible. It seems my eyes are playing tricks on me. How many fathers do we have. JESUS, the everlasting Father. What about God the father. Mbok Ijawkid i need some help.

Please compare this prophecy with his words when he said call no one Father except God the Father...now it should have occured to you that Jesus was going to play a role by virtue of what God gives to him......

No isrealite who knew about isaiah 9:6 ran around Jesus calling him Father.....

Now see how Jesus would be called eternal Father...its in a representative form...

Hebrews 2:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who
are sanctified are all of one(the Father): for which cause
he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my
brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing
praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And
again, Behold I and the children which God hath
given me.


Jesus was given children by God and so becomes a surrogate Father in fulfillment of isaiah 9:6.......

If you look at verse 11 both Jesus and all of us all share one Father.....

Make ona dey read scriptures well

deSika: Acts 20:28 is now wrong abi, its no longer a translation problem its now the text itself that is wrong kwo.

Lol........like I said the one God is the Father.....

So its up to you to figure out who bled and who died.....

Check other renditions and see who bled....

deSika: Thats the truth stirring at your face. All the translations say the same thing 'his blood' . JESUS is the God who used his blood to buy the church. Thats what the verse is saying.

Lol.........thank God the Father that Jesus is not the one GOD the Father........

So Jesus can bleed to the core......

The one GOD I know is the Father and he has never been a man nor has he bled or died before.....

deSika: Question again is why does the bible call Jesus a mighty God, everlasting father and yet You Ijawkid and Frosbel refuse to call him that. Why

Up there your answers are given......

That prophecy says he would be called....until his death and after his ressurection those names could not apply to him........