Ijawkid's Posts
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Frosbel do u mean u don't celebrate christmas and easter?? |
frosbel: 1. There is nowhere in the bible where JESUS is referred to as the spirit son of GOD !Jesus was made lower than angels right?? Who made him lower than angels?? Please just read verse 9 of hebrews chapter 1.... U read all d way to verse 7$8 but ran away from verse 9.... Jehovahs witnesses as I know them read d bible all thru b4 they arrive @ a reasonable conclusion... Even when they misunderstand scriptures they go back to make more researches rather than hold on to a doctrine blindly... If Jesus is God and he(Jesus) has a God annointing him what do u want a witness to conclude?? Verse 9 in particular says Jesus who was reffered to as elohim was annointed by his God..... Who is that God annointing Jesus?? ""That is why God thy God or God your God has annointed thee"" Who is that God annointing Jesus?? Ur minds eyes has been blinded by ur reading too many online works by other researchers who support either d trinity or the modalism dogma...... Context as goshen has always told u should be d determining factor when this title ""ELOHIM"" is used... If not u'll end up contradicting urself all d time.... I will want u to read that write up I put up there over and over again so that u can come back to ur sense and stop abusing the Jehovahs witnesses..... To me they are d most sound christians I've ever seen..... They are d most logical of all christians I've seen walk the surface of d earth after d 1st century christians...... They are firm in there beliefs..... And resolute..... |
Froebel if u read that research work up there and still stick to ur childish exegesis of Hebrews 1:8&9 then I don't know what to do with u.... That research work is not from a witness site but from a well informed bible student... |
Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. (NIV) 1. The English language makes a clear distinction between “God” and “god.” Thus, in English Bibles, the heavenly Father is called “God,” while lesser divinities, people with God’s authority on earth and important people such as kings, are also called “god” (2 Cor. 4:4; John 10:34 and 35; Acts 12:22). The Hebrew and Aramaic languages cannot make the distinction between “God” and “god.” Since Hebrew and Aramaic have only capital letters, every use is “GOD.” Furthermore, although the Greek language has both upper case and lower case letters as English does, the early Greek manuscripts did not blend them. It was the style of writing at the time of the New Testament to make manuscripts in all capital letters, so the Greek manuscripts were, like the Hebrew text, all upper case script. Scholars call these manuscripts “uncials,” and that style was popular until the early ninth century or so when a smaller script was developed for books. [1] Since all texts were in upper case script, if we translated Genesis 1:1 and 2 as it appeared in the Hebrew manuscripts, it would read: IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH NOW THE EARTH WAS FORMLESS AND EMPTY DARKNESS WAS OVER THE SURFACE OF THE DEEP AND THE SPIRIT OF GOD WAS HOVERING OVER THE WATERS. Actually, Bible students should be aware that in both the early Hebrew and Greek manuscripts there were no spaces between the words, no punctuation marks, no chapters and no verses. The original texts of both the Old and New Testament were capital letters all run together, and it looked like this: INTHEBEGINNINGGODCREATEDTHE HEAVENSANDTHEEARTHNOWTHEEARTH WASFORMLESSANDEMPTYDARKNESS WASOVERTHESURFAEOFTHEDEEPAND THESPIRITOFGODWASHOVERINGOVER THEWATERS Of course, the entire Bible was hand-printed exactly the same way, with every letter in upper case and no spaces between any words. As you can imagine, that made reading very difficult, and so it was common to read aloud, even when reading to yourself, to make it easier. That is why Philip the Evangelist could hear the Ethiopian eunuch reading the scroll of Isaiah (Acts 8:30). Such a text was hard to read and practically impossible to teach from. Imagine not being able to say, “Turn to Chapter 5, verse 15.” Therefore, divisions in the text began to appear quite early. However, because scribes lived far apart and hand-copied manuscripts, the divisions in the various manuscripts were not uniform. The first standardized divisions between verses came into being around 900 AD., and the modern chapter divisions were made in the 1200s. It should now be very clear that there was just no way to distinguish between “God” and “god” in the early texts, and so it must always be determined from the context whether or not the word “GOD” is referring to the Father or to some lesser being. Although it was usual that the presence of the definite article in the Greek text alerted the reader that the “GOD” being referred to was the Father, this was not always the case (see the note on John 10:33). For example, in 2 Corinthians 4:4, the word “theos” has the definite article, but the verse is referring to the Devil. Context is always the final judge of whether theos should be translated “God” or “god.” 2. The Semitic languages, and both the Latin and Greek spoken by the early Christians, used the word “God” with a broader meaning than we do today. “God” was a descriptive title applied to a range of authorities, including great people, rulers and people acting with God’s authority. In John 10:33, when the Jews challenged Jesus and said he was claiming to be “a god” (mistranslated in most versions as “God”; see our note on that verse), he answered them by asking them if they had read in the Old Testament that people to whom the Word of God came were called “GODS” (and we use all caps here because the earliest texts did. It is hard to escape the modern notion that “God” refers to the True God and “gods” referred to lesser deities). Any study of the words for “God” in both Hebrew and Greek will show that they were applied to people as well as to God. This is strange to English-speaking people because we use “God” in reference only to the true God, but both Hebrew and Greek used “God” of God, great men, other gods, angels and divine beings. It is the context that determines whether “God” or a great person is being referred to. This is actually a cause of occasional disagreement between translators, and they sometimes argue about whether “GOD” refers to God, the Father, or to a powerful person or representative of God. One example of this occurs in Exodus 21:6, which instructs a master whose servant wishes to serve him for life to bring the servant “to Elohim.” The KJV, the NIV and many others believe that the owner of the servant is supposed to bring the servant before the local authorities, and so they translate Elohim as “judges” (see also Ex. 22:8 and 9 for more examples). Other translators felt that the master was required to bring the servant to God, so they translated Elohim as “God.”(e.g., NRSV) Thus, the verse will read, “God” or “judges,” depending on the translation. Hebrews 1:8 is like other verses in that just because the word “theos” (“GOD”) is used does not mean that it refers to the Father. It could easily be referring to “god” in the biblical sense that great men are called “god.” The Septuagint uses the word theos for God, but also for men in places like Psalm 82 where men represent God. The context must be the determining factor in deciding what “GOD” refers to. In this case, in Hebrews that we are studying, the context is clear. Throughout the entire context from Hebrews 1:1, Christ is seen to be lesser than God the Father. Therefore, the use of “theos” here should be translated “god.” 3. The context must determine whether Christ is being referred to as the Supreme Being or just a man with great authority, so it must be read carefully. In this case, however, one need not read far to find that Christ, called “God,” himself has a “God.” The very next verse, Hebrews 1:9, says, “therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions.” Thus, Christ cannot be the supreme God, because the supreme God does not have a God. Furthermore, Christ’s God “set” him above others and “anointed” him. This makes it abundantly clear that the use of theos here in Hebrews is not referring to Christ being the supreme God, but rather a man with great authority under another God. Andrews Norton writes: Here the context proves that the word “God” does not denote the Supreme Being, but is used in an inferior sense. This is admitted by some of the most respectable Trinitarian critics. Thus, the Rev. Dr. Mayer remarks: “Here the Son is addressed by the title God: but the context shows that it is an official title which designates him as a king: he has a kingdom, a throne and a scepter; and in verse 9 he is compared with other kings, who are called his fellows; but God can have no fellows. As the Son, therefore, he is classed with the kings of the earth, and his superiority over them consists in this, that he is anointed with the oil of gladness above them; inasmuch as their thrones are temporary, but his shall be everlasting.” [2] 4. The verse is a quotation from Psalm 45:6,7. The Jews read this verse for centuries and, knowing the flexibility of the word “God,” never concluded that the Messiah would somehow be part of a Triune God. 5. We must note that the verse in the Greek text can also be translated as, “Thy throne is God.” However, because the verse is a reference from the Old Testament, and because we believe that God, the Father, is calling His Christ a “god” (i.e., one with divine authority), there is no need to translate the verse other than, “Thy throne, O god, is forever.” |
frosbel: 1. There is nowhere in the bible where JESUS is referred to as the spirit son of GOD ! |
Obey Froebel.....Jesus pre existed as a spirit son of Yahweh.....firstborn son if u know what I mean.....what more do u wanna hear?that he was Yahweh himself b4 he now sent himself to d earth? Jesus himself told us d privileged position he enjoyed along side his FATHER(Yahweh).... John 17 New International Version (NIV) Jesus Prays to Be Glorified 17 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. Jesus Prays for His Disciples 6 “I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. Do those words of Jesus answer ur question as to whom Jesus was b4 coming to d earth? Jesus was sent ,and he came to do Yahwehs will not his own will...and there is Jesus praying to his God and Father to glorify him.... U might wanna read verse 3 with open eyes and mind.....Jesus there acknowledges who the only true God(Yahweh) is....and where he(Jesus) stands in this hierarchy......he was sent.....the one sent can't be the same with the one doing the sending ........ If u need eye glass I fit give u make u read am |
frosbel: Did JESUS CHRIST Pre-Exist ?Ofcus he did just like d angels pre-existed.... Abi?? He was a spirit creature in heaven b4 coming to d earth to do YAHWEH's will not HIS OWN will..... If Jesus was Yahweh he wouldn't have to make that statement... It would be contradictory to d fact that he's Yahweh....... |
But I thought u urself recently concluded that HELL is d common grave of mankind... Or have u been hallucinating lately?? Was it not u that recently argued tooth and nail with ola and many others that Hell is not a place of torment but Hades?? How does that ur new found knowledge differ with that which d witnesses believe in?? Frosbel it seems u'v become so confused as to what u believe and advocate..... Jehovahs witnesses dnt believe in d immortality of d soul which I know and which u recently just knew.... Put it up there in ur list....... U will use those hands and mouth to come bak to back up those teachings up there ur fighting against.... Soonest!!!!!!!!!!!! Its gonna be gradual..... 1st its ur change of understanding as regards Hell... 2ndly is ur change of understanding regarding d immortality of d soul.... Other changes are coming my bro....... If Jesus wasn't fully a man on earth he wouldn't die my bro... Acquire some common sense..... If Jesus was God bodily he would nt die,he would not forget when d world would end,he will not worship some1 else... He wouldn't be called the son of man,...... What do u tink d word ""SON of MAN"" means?? The Jehovahs witnesses have always been right on this issue..... I espouse there stand on it....... |
frosbel: I made some little corrections read the above again.I am using the niv and jerusalem bible.... Imagine Jesus being a slave to himself acts 3:13 New International Version (NIV) 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. ,,,, Worshiping himself....... Sending himself and then annointing himself... And then greater than himself.... Wouldn't that be tantamount to one who's suffering from schizophrenia??... If not why would Jesus worship himself?? Answer me........ Then u might as well add that Jesus suffered from amnesia for him not to had known when d end will come,but which only d Father knew..... Of which from ur theory Jesus is the Father(Yahweh) but still culdnt and didn't know when d end wuld come..... Rubbish doctrines that many believe in today just got me SMH |
logicboy01: Irrelevant. As protestants, you dont have any grounding to question the catholic church. The moment you accept their bible, you are their b1tchThe cartholics didn't write d bible did they?? The apostles and prophets of old did so dnt give me that crap... How would some people write up a book that is against there beliefs?? Does it make sense?? Then why compile d book in d 1st place.... Why can't we find d words trinity,purgatory,rosary,easter etc in d original texts of d scriptures?? Why?? if they compiled d bible then mayb they made some mistakes not to add words that wuld support there pagan practices today..... |
[quote author=frosbel][/quote]Confusion all over d place.... That's why Jesus worshiped himself..... |
Remember my stance is Yahweh is a different person from Jesus and that Yahweh is greater than Jesus.... That agrees with d bible from genesis to revelation...... I don't believe God died.... U hear me?? Its gonna be d most absurd thing for me to believe.... |
U want verse by verse analysis right?? Let me here from u what u understand from 1 corinthians 8:6 u quoted... Is that place focusing on 2 persons or just 1....?? There tells us that d only true God or 1 God is God the Father...right?? While the 1 lord is Jesus...right?? Then that verse further tells us that it is from God d Father WHOM all things came into being.... While it was through Jesus THROUGH which all things came into being..... Is there a difference in those above big lettered words?? Did that verse tell u Jesus is God the Father?? Wanna hear ur answer... Remember I'v quoted other scriptures which ofcus I'm waiting for ur explanations... We will dwell on 1st corinthians to solve this madness called modalism/trinity..... 1 corinthians 11:3 Tells us that in heaven Yahweh(The Father) is head of d christ just as Christ is head of Man..... Start explaining why I shuldnt call my self Jesus.... |
frosbel: Of course not.Why is mary not d mother of Yahweh?? I thought from ur theory that Jesus was Yahweh in d human form?? If mary is d mother of Jesus which u say is Yahweh manifesting in d human form(God incarnate) then she is d mother of Yahweh... Isn't it what this whole madness is about?? I'v told u not to bring Jehovahs witness into this issue.... Let's clear this crazy issue once and for all.... Wasn't Jesus God on earth?? Wasn't he Yahweh here on earth?? Please let's clear this madness now or never... Answer these pertinent questions as they come.... I'v nt open my mouth to tell u I'm a witness... Infact I was suspecting u were the one who was a Jehovahs witness after ur new posts on immortality of the soul and hell....... So let's clear d air.... The theories of modalism and trinity have serious implications which @ d end of the day debunks them...... What's d difference between u and a catholic?? U believe Jesus is Yahweh while dey believe Jesus is God and that mary is d mother of God.... Who's more confused?? |
@frosbel......1 more question for u.... Is mary the mother of Yahweh and the holy spirit?? |
frosbel: God through the Spirit , birthed a SON called Jesus Christ by his WORD , this WORD which was made flesh and dwelt among us .U were infact like d jews who culd nt decipher that Jesus was not d same with d father and that Yahweh was greater and different from Jesus...... They never spent time to read d psalms and books of d prophets to find out who was coming from heaven to(the messiah).. If they had read isaiah well they would have understood that Jesus was Yahwehs loyal servant and son who was doing his Fathers will... But as usual d pharisees were like many today who will look @ truths in front of them and turn there faces.... What was Jesus reply to d pharisees?? He replied"" ur wanting to stone me because I said I am the SON of GOD"" Was that not Jesus's reply to d pharisees?? Did he tell d pharisees he was Yahweh?? What was Jesus's reply to the samaritan woman as to who he was?? Read that ur bible well...... I want u to interprete 1 corinthians 15:27 $ 28........... Modalism and trinity has confused d world for so long a time....... How can Yahweh himself which u now claim to be Jesus(heretic though) claim ::: 1 ...TO BE GREATER THAN HIMSELF 2....TO BE THE IMAGE OF HIMSELF 3....DIE??how can Yahweh die??then it means Satan became GOD of all for 3 days.... 4....TO WORSHIP HIMSELF??Jesus worshipped Yahweh....If he was Yahweh himself he would nt need to worship anybody...Yahweh owes worship and reverence to no one....... Common sense shuld solve this mystery u guys created.... I have asked u what u are...a trinitarian or a modalist?? 1 corinthians 11;3 shuld end this ur mystery.... If Yahweh is head of Jesus just as Jesus is head of d man then u shuld as well say that man and Jesus are d same(2nity)...... 1 man but appearing in 2..... It means we are Jesus too...how do u enjoy that? |
logicboy01: Frosbel, while I agree that the rosary is a Catholic thing that has no place in scriptures, the catholic church is christianity, you rail against their doctrines but they are the ones that compiled the very bible that you use. We dont know what these people left out when compiling the bible.$ Question is d catholics compiled a book that prohibits or says nothing about d rosary.. It means something is wrong |
Ubenedictus: the usual ijawkid problem, he doesnt understand yet he critisize. Yahve is one, the is one God, there is one ousia yet in one God there are 3 distinct persons, 3 manisfestation, 3 hypostasis.From ya analogy u and frosbel agree but disagree @ d same time.... If Yahweh manifested as Jesus on earth,then it means Yahweh died....and then it also means there was 3-1 God in heaven..... Then it means God died which is impossible... Frosbel agrees Jesus is Yahweh but disagrees mary is d mother of Yahwe... Frosbel agrees Jesus is Yahweh,but disagrees with u that there are 3 distinct persons that make up the 1 God...... Confusion go kukuma finish trinitarians and modalist........ Make ona dey confuse dey go....... I dey relax dey dring beer...... |
truthislight: With the way i see things some peole will reward themself with everlasting life since they have the power to tell story that contradict the scriptures.Good points my bro..... Yahweh said no one can see Him and yet live but people saw Jesus and didn't die.... D question is who did those on earth see ?? Yahweh or his son Jesus?? Since Jesus by many is said to be Yahweh then I wonder how come they culd see Jesus.... Good points ............. Also it is said Jesus is the image of d invincible God..... Why would Jesus if he is Yahweh be d image of himself?? One can only be in d image of or the image of whom he is not...... |
buzugee: hehehe mumumu nysc. i love the nysc outfits though. hey we been trying to hold it down for you here putting in that good work of Yah. Glad to have you back Bruh.Ur so welcome bro... So What have u been up to?? |
frosbel: see what happens when you keep reading that JW Bible, I quoted scripture and you cannot explain my initial comments, yet want me to go off on a tangent about something else.Have I opÉned my mÓuth to tÉll u I'm a Jehovahs wÍtness?? Why draw d conclusion?? I just quoted a scripture for u as a bible student for u to tell me what u think..... Your modalism principle does not measure up to this scripture I put up there..... Tell me who Jesus is bÉen subject to?? And who Jesus i§ handing over d kingdom of which we know was given to him?? 1 corinthians 15:27 $ 28 is 1 of those scriptures that murders both the trinity and modalism theory put together..... I don't have a problem with Jesus being a God.... I have a problem with Jesus being Yahweh..... Chikena!!!!!!! |
frosbel: Sorry but I do not want to be drawn into a debate.U haven't answered my question..... When Jesus died was the heavens devoid of GOD or Yahweh?? Jesus answering Immanuel does not make him Yahweh....u might as well say all those answering Immanuel today are Yahweh...... U dnt just quote scriptures and interprete them d way u want without analyzing all the parameters involved...... From ur analogy it also means God died.... Can u hear urself??..... Please what do u make out of this scripture... 1 corinthians 15: 27 $ 28.... Please sit back and explain it.... In trying to run away from d trinity doctrine you are embracing modalism...... I don't even knw where u stand right now.... |
frosbel: The scripture is light.When Jesus died where was God?? You are a modalist from ur reasoning.... When david sat on Yahwehs throne was he Yahweh?? All the kings of isreal that came from d davidic lineage aLl sat on Gods throne,the same throne Jesus is said to be sitting on... This aint about Jehovahs witnesses ,this is about d bible..... |
Hmmmm$$..... Confusion dey here o..... How would u frosbel compare this revelation account where the son of man was brought or gained access to the ancient of days as recorded in daniel?? Did Jesus gain access to himself?? U might @ d end of the day be fostering the MODAlism doctrine which might @ d end contradict ur post if we analyze d whole scripture............ Where is d holy spirit in that picture?? I don't actually still know if your for the trinity doctrine or against it....... let's get it straight.... Are u a trinitarian or a modalist?? U better choose my bro..... Its this same confusion that moved tertullian to propound the trinity doctrine that the niceans held on to.... Modalism/trinity ,are the 2 most confusing doctrines religion has ever faced....... All from paganism!!!!!!!!!! From ya analogy about Jesus,we might conclude that when Jesus died the heavens were devoid of Yahweh.... Meaning there was no God for 3 days..... Please review ur doctrines again on this issue |
buzugee: This man nobody see your breaklight anymore now. trust all is wellI'm ok bro.... Been traveling recently ..... Been running around writing job tests while I'm serving the mumu nysc.... U know how 9ja things work...... But I can't leave my brethrens here on nairaland... Wad up?? |
In all the trinity is d most confused doctrine I'v ever percieved..... Its crazy..... Y'all shuld remember Jesus words... ""Yahweh our God is 1 God"" Peace every1 |
frosbel: So we are now using science to explain the trinity ,Frosbel recently u seem to have evolved into some new bible student with so much thinking.... I like that!!!!! I have always told ola,and all trinitarians who aren't catholics to simply just be catholics..... Why?? Because if 1 believes in d trinity dogma he or she can't escape d fact that mary shuld be worshiped..... The mary worship doctrine and d trinity doctrine are 2 doctrines that must cling together...... They are inseperable..... |
@poster....buzugee said it good..... All faithful patriarchs of old who didn't actually know Jesus still have d hope of living forever because they worshipped Yahweh and followed up his principles of worship back then...... Though these guys in all they did yearned for d moment when they'll see d promised messiah....they all knew Yahweh was gona provide a means through which they culd all be reconciled to him and then attain eternal life.... It was thru these faithful men of old that Jesus was transffered to the earth,so why won't they enjoy Gods blessings.... Right now as Gods high priest,its only thru Jesus that we can talk to Yahweh,present our sacrifices(not literal burnt offerings),and ask for forgiveness of sins..... |
TokyoBulls: We will need evidences that Miss Justice is a witch and such evidences must be presentable and admissible in a court of law. And the constitution (definitely not the Bible) is the book of authority in a court. We go to church not to read and interpret the Constitution but the Bible and we go to the Court not to read the Bible but the Constitution. There shouldn't be any confusion here. The Bible was the Constitution during the days of Jehu and Elijah. The Bible and the Constitution are different today. I'm sure people never knew the case would come this far. There's a lot more Pastors to take to court. |
TokyoBulls: We will need evidences that Miss Justice is a witch and such evidences must be presentable and admissible in a court of law. And the constitution (definitely not the Bible) is the book of authority in a court. We go to church not to read and interpret the Constitution but the Bible and we go to the Court not to read the Bible but the Constitution. There shouldn't be any confusion here. The Bible was the Constitution during the days of Jehu and Elijah. The Bible and the Constitution are different today. I'm sure people never knew the case would come this far. There's a lot more Pastors to take to court.I like this post............ Good write up... All oyedepo apologists are just pathetic....... |
Evolutionists are just blatantly mad people......... ÍmagiÑe Àll of em trÝing to provÉ organisms ,both unicellular and multi-cellular all Çame by chance..... Crazy indeed.... @deep sight and davidlyn..... Good job my bro's..... |
frosbel: He lets us know what will follow upon this change of the living and dead in Christ: Then shall be brought to pass that saying, Death is swallowed up in victory; or, He will swallow up death in victory.God swallowing up death forever is the §ame when death is thrown into d lake of fire..... I can't wait for that time when death will be a thing of d past..... |
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