₦airaland Forum

Pygru: I'll love to be like him
It pains me he does'nt speak much again.

Can you be truthful enough to tell us who you really are(your known I.D)......??.....

I don't know why you have to hide your real self to discuss pertinent issues......

Fear fear.....

frosbel: if he is not , they certainly behave almost in a similar fashion , lol.

I wonder why he should be hiding behind this I.D...let him come out and show himself.....the boy dey fear...........

frosbel: Image123 will grow up one day

Lol......is pygru also image123??...........

Bobbysworld28: @ijawkid
Dts d reason I wrote it is believed. I did state it as a fact

Good you knw it isn't a fact...now from the scriptures that claim is false.......

When we die we become dust awaiting ressurection........

Until we expereince ressurection just as Jesus did we remain in our graves or tombs......

Pygru:
he is been served a dose of his own medicine.

Just on the other thread u introduced the trinity and hell fire dogma.....we engaged u,but u ran away.....how can I engage a fool like you that doesn't stay focused to discuss points........

Before you opened this thread you had not even discussed 1/10th of the issues you brought up on the other thread.......

And I should take you serious??

mumumugu: you are funny.when debating with catholics, you easily throw seven questions at once, from worshiping status,to praying to Mary , to use of candle to pope is antichrist. Now you ask for step by step analysis.

Naaaaa.......we stay on a topic till the end...if its about mary we discuss it right down to the end...if its about the use of the rosary we discuss it right down to the end......if its about purgatory we stay on the topic.......

And I can't remember when I argued about the use of candles with anybody....abi u dey mistake me for someone else??

Pygru: Pls do not derail this thread.
I think you have forgoten the title of this thread.
It's 'Facts you should know about Jehovah's Witnesses'.
If you want to discuss about Hell/Godhead you know what to do!!!

And what should I do??......

Pygru: Ijawkid your attention is needed on this thread pls.
https://www.nairaland.com/1252257/facts-should-know-jehovahs-witnesses#15162836

And I'm on that post...your job now is reply frosbels points one after the other.....discus§ like a matured adult Ànd stop being a baby.....

If you're ready for the hell fire discussion here you have it.....start giving rebuttals or forever remain silent.....olodo rabata....

Pygru: Nothing to discuss there.
I have played my part.
It's now left for you to counter what I have said.

Lol...how do you even know that what you pasted is true.??...that's my problem...you've pasted so many lies here and you expect me to start attending to all..I don't even knw where to start from...you don't even know which you want me to attend to...

You're just a waste of time and space.....

All I want to do is debunk the foundation on which you stand..but you are even afraid to come out and play.......

Let's deal with the major doctrines...

##trinity
##..hell fire.

As for tithing my other colleagues have done a nice job........

@pygru....I guess you've learnt something from boomarks reply...hope you now understand the definition of the word ""Godhead"" from the scriptures....??.......

Instead of running around pasting web sites learn from d scriptures....

Pygru: I like that.
Pls show me where I called frosbel a JW.

Your claims show that you are infering frosbel is a JW.....what about boomark??.....

These guys have done away with the pagan trinity dogma and moved on.......

If what you once held on to as truths isn't what it is as scriptures are known more and more, you discard it........

Simple!!!!!!.........

Come out very well and let's dÍscuss the trinity from all corners.......be confident enough to do that........

Pygru: Does that Ivalidate the other points raised

Like I said choose one point and we discuss before another.....I can't attend to all points at once..........besides some claims there are twisted ......

Pygru: Like those who attend a Catholic /Protestant church or receive a blood transfusion

Can you please name just one person that was disfellowshipped for accepting blood transfusion??.......please just one person...

Pygru: He needs prayers

Lol.......have you asked your freind you're supporting what Jesus meant by everlasting fire??....or you just want to be foolish as usual.......

What does the scripture always mean by eternal or everlasting fire??.....

I'm asking you a question...

Pygru: 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000 likes

And here arrives the olodo that can't stay on a topic and discuss like a man........

What does hell fire mean??....

honourhim: You ve told him the truth. Frosbel is just guided by his emotions rather than the bitter truth of God's word. It is very easy for any fool to rejoice in his message and accept it wholeheartedly since he can live his sinful life on earth and be totally annhiliated by fire at the end of the day. What a cheap message. Which sinner would not like to hear that he won't be tormented forever in the lake of fire? Frosbel's message is as cheap as the message of catholics on purgatory. I reject it totally.

Ahhh!!!!!..........

If you believe in hell fire the way you teach it ,I wonder why you should blame the catholics for believing in purgatory......you both believe that both locations(purgatory and hell fire) are interim abodes for sinners.........

Bobbysworld28: If God's word to Adam is dt he returns 2 lifelessness, wht abt d parable abt Lazarus & d rich man? Remember dt after Jesus died Spirits of dead before came out. It is believed dt they r cloud of witnesses dt went up with Jesus as he ascended.
Is it possible dt they were somewhere else apart from heaven?

Is the bolded found in the scriptures??....

Pygru: The hunter has become the hunted......

I've told you were our starting point should be........let's discuss with the scriptures...stop this childs play........

Decide which topic we tackle first.....

Boomark: Godhead

trinitarians need to ask themselves:
what is all fullness?
What is Godhead?

Col 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullnessof the Godhead bodily.

Note carefully that Godhead is dwelling in Christ. He is not part or in Godhead but it dwells in him. Godhead means God's nature, divine qualities. Research it.

Colossians 1:19-20
New International Version (NIV)
19 For God was pleased to have all
his fullness dwell in him, 20 and
through him to reconcile to himself
all things, whether things on earth
or things in heaven, by making
peace through his blood, shed on
the cross.

For it pleases the Father to have the fullness of His nature(Godhead) in Christ. So that through Christ Godwill reconcile everything back to Himself and no other person.

Romans 1:19-20
King James Version (KJV)
19 Because that which may be
known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him
from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by
the things that are made, even his
eternal power and Godhead; so
that they are without excuse:

This one will help you understand that eternal power and Godhead is something that belongs to the Father and not that He is in it.

Ephesians 1:22-23
New International Version (NIV)
22 And God placed all things under
his feet and appointed him to be
head over everything for the
church, 23 which is his body, the
fullness of him who fills everything
in every way.

It is God that gave Christ the authority he has by putting all things under his feet. But you are mistaken by making him equal to God after seeing the authority he possess. It is God that fills everything He pleases with His fullness.

Don't be disappointed trinitarians, Godhead is not made up 3 persons but God's nature or qualities.

This is how the bible defined/show us what GODHEAD is. I think we now know those spreading church influenced false doctrines.

Any Objection?

The problem is pygru would never want to have a serious discussion with anyone.......he won't even address your reply.......

@pygru....oya come answer boomark

Pygru: did I invite you




THE GODHEAD
"...in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
Matthew 28:19
Copyright © 1976, 1977 by Diane S. Dew
I. The doctrine of the Trinity (or, Godhead) – attacked by cults (such as the Watchtower Society,
or Jehovah's Witnesses) so that they can also deny the deity of Jesus – is one of the most basic
fundamentals of Christianity.
A. Although the word "trinity" is not in the Bible, the concept of the three-in-one, the triune
God, is. The term "Godhead," referring to the three-in-one, can be found in Acts 17:29
and Colossians 2:9. (Many other words or concepts "not in the Bible" are scriptural
nonetheless: i.e., theology, Bible, etc.)
Acts 17:29
Colossians 2:9
B. The doctrine of the Godhead can be summed up in the literal Hebrew translation of one verse.
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel,Jehovah our Gods (plural) is Jehovah a unity."
II. The concept of the Godhead (Trinity) is evident in scripture as early as the first chapter of the
book of Genesis.
A. The Hebrew word Elohim (translated"God" in Genesis 1:1) actually indicates more than
one divine personality. This same plural form is used over 2,500 times in the Old Testament.
B. In the account of creation recorded in the book of Genesis God speaks plurally of His
own Person.
Genesis 1:26, 27 (See also Genesis 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:3, 8.) "Let us make man in our
image, after our likeness ... So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him."
III. Even the Old Testament makes definite reference both to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
Proverbs 30:4
Isaiah 11:2 "... the Spirit ... the Lord... Him"
Isaiah 42:1 "My Servant ... I ... My Spirit ... upon Him"
Isaiah 48:16 "The Lord God ... His Spirit ... sent Me"
Isaiah 61:1 "Spirit of the Lord God... upon Me ... the Lord"
Isaiah 63:9 "He ...the Angel of His Presence ... His Holy Spirit"
Ezekiel 36:26, 27
IV. Close examination of the following New Testament scriptures will make obvious to any
student of the Bible that the doctrine of the Godhead is truth.
Matthew 1:20, 21 "the Lord (the Father) ... the Holy Spirit ... Jesus"
Matthew 3:16, 17 "Jesus ... the Spirit of God ... a Voice from heaven (the Father)"
Matthew 12:18 "I ... My Spirit ... on Him"
Matthew 22:42, 43 "Christ ... the Spirit ... Lord (the Father)"
Mark 1:9-11 "Jesus ... the Spirit ... a Voice from heaven ... My beloved Son"
Mark 12:35, 36 "Christ ... the Holy Spirit ... the Lord (the Father)"
Luke 1:35 "the Holy Spirit ... the Highest ... the Son of God"
Luke 2:26, 27 "the Holy Spirit ... Christ ... Jesus"
Luke 3:21, 22 "Jesus ... the Holy Spirit ... a Voice from heaven ... My beloved Son"
Luke 10:21 "Jesus ... the Spirit ... Father"
Luke 12:9, 10 "God ... the Son ... the Holy Spirit"
John 3:5 "Jesus ... the Spirit ... God"
John 3:34, 35 "God ... the Spirit ... the Father ... the Son"
John 4:24, 25 "God ... a Spirit ... Messiah ... Christ"
John 14:16, 17, 26 "the Comforter... the Father ... in My name"
John 15:26 "the Comforter ... the Father ... of Me"
John 20:21, 22 "Jesus ... Father ... the Holy Spirit"
Acts 2:32, 33 "Jesus ... God ... the Father ... the Holy Spirit"
Acts 2:38, 39 "Jesus Christ ... the Holy Spirit ... God"
Acts 4:30, 31 "Jesus ... the Holy Spirit ... God"
Acts 5:31, 32 "God ... a Prince and Savior ... the Holy Spirit"
Acts 7:55 "the Holy Spirit ... Jesus ... God"
Acts 8:14-16 "God ... the Holy Spirit... Jesus"
Acts 10:38 "God ... Jesus ... the Holy Spirit"
Acts 10:46-48 "God ... the Holy Spirit ... the Lord"
Acts 11:16, 17 "the Lord ... the Holy Spirit ... God ... the Lord Jesus Christ"
Acts 20:21-23 "God ... Jesus ... the Holy Spirit"
Romans 1:1, 3, 4 "God ... His Son, Jesus Christ ... the Spirit"
Romans 5:5, 6 "God ... the Holy Spirit ... Christ"
Romans 8:2, 3 "the Spirit ... Jesus ... God ... His own Son"
Romans 8:8, 9 "God ... the Spirit ... the Spirit of Christ"
Romans 8:16, 17 "the Spirit ... God... Christ"
Romans 14:17, 18 "the Holy Spirit ...Christ ... God
see more at
http://www.dianedew.com/godhead.htm

You are simply just a ""copy and paste"" fool...........

I doubt if you understand the scriptures you've copied from an anti-JW site and pasted here.....

For your info boomark and frosbel aren't JW's but they've seen the folly behind the trinity and your definition of Godhead.........

Read boomarks write up and learn......

dorox: In describing death to Adam, God told him that "from dust dust you were and to dust you shall return."
How do you think that Adam understood that statement? That he has in immortal soul that can never die even after being cut off from God's life sustaining spirit? Or would he have understood the statement to mean that having been cut off from God's life sustaining spirit, he would gradually revert back to the same lifeless state that he was (dust) before he was created? Just like an electric fan on full blast gradually coming to a halt soon after it's power supply is cut off.

If people can really listen to Gods words to adam then they won't have problems understanding what happens to us at death....except many would agree that after adam and eve died things changed..........

Pygru: 1. If you become a JW and then leave them because of their false teachings, you will be literally shunned. You family that remain in the organization will not be permitted to even talk to you!
2. The Watchtower Society is the only source of truth on earth today and your soul will be destroyed if you refuse their organization.
3. The Watchtower Society and its followers are all prophets of God today and the Governing Body is directed by angels from God.
4. The Watchtower and Awake magazines originate with and are treated as equal to the Bible.
5. They deny the that God consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
6. They deny the deity of Christ (Arian view) Jesus is a created being also called Michael the archangel, and was the first and only direct creation of God.
7. Jesus was not the Christ (Messiah) until age 30, even though their own bible says in Luke 2:11, "because there was born to you today a savior, who is Christ the Lord."
8. They deny the bodily resurrection. After Jesus was buried in the tomb, Jehovah dissolved his body into gases and it disappeared forever.
9. Jesus rose invisibly in three days, so Jehovah had to "materialize" a fake body forhim complete with fake nail prints so His disciples would believe it was really Jesus risen.
10. They deny the personality of the Holy Spirit(viewed by the Watchtower organization as "God's active force", similar to radio waves)
11. They deny man consciously survives death.
12. They teach the eternal punishment of the lost is annihilation.
13. They deny the bodily, visible return of Christ (Christ's "return" was only His"turning his attention" invisibly toward earth in 1914, and there was an invisible"rapture" of the dead members of the 144,000 in 1918.)
14. The cross is a pagan symbol of sex worship, and that all buildings or persons displaying the cross are likewise pagan. Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus died on a cross but a stake. However, recent"new light" in the Watchtower now admitsthey are not certain about the cross, but will continue to deny it anyway. Further, the watchtower originally claimed it was across
15. No one goes to heaven but 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses.
16. They teach Christ is the mediator for only the 144,000, not the average Jw.
17. Teach only the 144,000 must be "born again", not the average Jw.
18. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob etc. were to be back on earth as perfect humans in 1925. The Society built a palatial home called"Beth Sarim" for them BUT when the patriarchs failed to show up, the Presidentof the Society moved in.
19. Their light gets "brighter and brighter", allowing for many changes and "about faces" on their doctrines. Yesterday's erroris today's "truth". Often the "light" bounces back and forth from old to new views and back again! (Might we call this discarded truth... "black Light"?)
20. Blood transfusions are rejected and if a Witness receives one willingly, it results in his eternal death. However, the society allows Hemopheliacs to consume blood for medical purposes to save their life.
21. To salute the flag is an act of idolatry.
22. Participation in any civil holidays, mothers day, birthdays brings condemnation of God.
23. Only persons who use the true name of God, Jehovah, will have their prayers heardby God. No salvation is possible without using the name "Jehovah."

If I say we should discuss these issues one after the other you would be no where to be found......

In the other thread we hadn't finished with the trinity when you ran away and then later came back pasting thrash.......

I insisted we start with the trinity ......come and let's discuss it........eternal torment issue can come later.....

And hÓw does not saluting the flag make us falsÉ??.....

Your foolishness indeed knows no bounds....I've told you to show up with your real I.D but you won't.......

italo: Frederick Franz succeeded Knorr For some years the sect’s magazines had been predicting that Armageddon would occur in 1975. When it didn’t, Franz had to find an explanation.

Witnesses believe that Adam was created in 4026 B.C. and that human beings have been allotted 6000 years of existence until Armageddon and the beginning of the millennium. This figure is based on a "creative week" in which each of six days is equal to 1,000 years, with the Sabbath or seventh day being the beginning of the millennium. Simple arithmetic gives 1975 as the year Armageddon would arrive. Franz explained that Armageddon would actually come 6000 years after Eve’s creation. But when 1975 came and went, the Witnesses had to "adjust" their chronology to cover up a failed prediction. They accomplished this by maintaining that no one knew exactly how long after Adam’s creation Eve came on the scene. Franz said that it was months—even years. Hence he was able to "stretch" the 1975 date to some indeterminate time in the future. In any case, Franz said that Witnesses would just have to wait, knowing the end is right around the corner.

When the final battle does occur—remember, it will be during the lifetime of "millions" of people alive in 1914, which means it can’t be too far off—Jehovah will defeat Satan and the elect will go to heaven to rule with Christ. But, following a literal interpretation of the number mentioned in Revelation, chapters 7 and 14, only 144,000 are among the elect. They will go to heaven as spirit persons (without resurrected bodies). The remaining faithful (Jehovah’s Witnesses), who are known as Jonadabs, will live forever on a renewed, paradise Earth in resurrected bodies. The unsaved will cease to exist at all, having been annihilated by Jehovah.

Is this true?

Italo let me unequivocally say this.......

The JW's have in the past anticipated the worlds end and so engaged in scriptural chronology.......and YES some were mistakes on our part......and what have we done.??we've adjusted......who says we shouldn't and can't adjust??...we don't remain stiff necked even whÉn it is glaring that §omething is wrong........but that has not changed a thing about the JW's........we don't joke with the prophecies about an impending destruction of this world.......we are ever observant to worlds affairs and how they are connected to scriptural prophecies........


The question you should ask yourself now is::::::

What do JW's believe...........

When I attack the doctrines of my colleagues here I first of all know what they really believe down till this moment...........

Look at pygru saying the witnesses are 4million worldwide...isn't that a lie??...

italo: Jehovah's Witnesses may be "disfellowshipped" for a variety of reasons, such as attending a Catholic or Protestant church or receiving a blood transfusion. Disfellowshipping is the sect’s equivalent of excommunication, though somewhat more harsh. A disfellowshipped Witness may attend Kingdom Hall, but he is not allowed to speak to anyone, and no one may speak to him. The others are to act as though he no longer exists. This applies even to his family, who may only communicate with him as much as absolutely necessary.

TRUE OR FALSE?

We disfellowship basically unrepentant wrongdeors.........hope you see the clause there..??.....UNREPENTANT.........

And the many who are disfellowshiped are those who have chosen to lead immoral lives incessantly.........

1 corinthians 5:9-13.......

Pygru: Use your eyes

http://www.biblebelievers.net/cults/jws/kjcjws1.htm

And who is this man??.....why should I believe all the hogwash he wrote??

italo: Jehovah's Witnesses operate NO hospitals, sanitariums, orphanages, schools, colleges, or social welfare agencies. From their perspective it will all disappear in a few years anyway, so they don’t expend their energies in these areas.

TRUE OR FALSE?

FALSE..........JW's own schools and hospitals......now this is a lie from pygru.......

but the fact still remains that JW's are not steeped into the worlds pursuit because this life isn't all there is......we put in 90 percent of our energies in preaching....the same exact way Jesus did...

But talking about witness not operationg schools and hospitals even you italo knows its a lie.....

italo: I'm asking you. These are things I have heard and read from sources I consider as credible, and I believe them.

So, as a Jehovah's Witness that you are, I'm asking you if these arent true.

What credible source??.........can you tell me??.......

italo: Russell taught his followers the return of Jesus in 1914

When 1914 had come and gone, with no Jesus in sight, Russell modified his teachings and claimed Jesus had, in fact, returned to Earth, but that his return was invisible.

Isnt this true?

Ahh the 1914 issue.........you were here on nairaland when this issue was discussed extensively by truthislife and barrister.....weren't u??.......and you guys call it russels teachings.............is russell the same as Jehovahs witnesses??.......

italo: Since the Bible, as preserved through the centuries, did not support the peculiar doctrines of the Witnesses, Nathan Homer Knorr (who succeeded Rutherford) chose an anonymous committee to produce the New World Translation, which is used by no sect other than the Witnesses. By means of former Witnesses, the names of the five members of the translation committee eventually came to light. Four of the five members completely lack credentials to qualify them as Bible translators, and the fifth member studied non-biblical Greek for only about two years.

The New World Translation was produced because it buttresses Witnesses’ beliefs through obscure or inaccurate renderings. For example, to prove that Jesus was only a creature, not God, the New World Translation’s rendering of John 1:1 concludes this way: "and the Word was a god" [italics added]. Every other translation, Catholic and Protestant—not to mention the Greek original—has "and the Word was God."

Isnt this true?

The members lacked the credentials for bible translation but they were able to restore the name of God which persons in the past removed......right??.....can pygru and you tell us the credentials that one should have that would qualify him or her to translate the bible??

We've argued extensively on john 1:1 on this religion forum.............

You know the witnesses bÓldy woÙld tell yoÙ ::::::.........we don't believe in the trinity...and we are ever ready to discuss it.........

italo: Rutherford said that in 1925 Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets would return to Earth, and for them he prepared a mansion named Beth Sarim in San Diego, California. He moved into this mansion (where he died in 1942) and bought an automobile with which to drive the resurrected patriarchs around. The Watch Tower Society quietly sold Beth Sarim years later to cover up an embarrassing moment in their history, namely another failed prophecy.

Isnt this true?

Ask the OP.......I just don't know where he got these info's from....smh!!!........

Besides I wonder if these are doctrines........

Let the OP come out and tell us where he got these info's from...because I know nothing about them......

italo: Before he got his religious career well underway, Charles Taze Russell promoted what he called "miracle wheat," which he sold at sixty dollars per bushel. He claimed it would grow five times as well as regular wheat. In fact, it grew slightly less well than regular wheat, as was established in court when Russell was sued. Later he marketed a fake cancer cure and what he termed a "millennial bean" (which a wag has said probably got that name because it took a thousand years to sprout).

Is this true?

.........ask the Op mÝ bro....ask the OP........

italo: And you think "greetings" cannot be part of prayer? English teacher... Is that how weak your understanding of prayer is?

And who did Jesus tell us to greet when we pray??.....mary??......remember when we pray,we direct every word to God.....so one wonders what mary who has died thousands of years ago should be doing in a christians prayer.....

italo: If your mother has not been interceding for you both at your request and without it, then your mother has been very unfair to you. What kind of mother doesnt pray for her son? I think yours is the only one on earth. As for us Catholics, we ask our mothers (both earthly and heavenly) to pray for us. But even when we dont, they are praying for us anyway. I am Catholic. ALLELUIA!

How is mary your mother??.......is she your mother??....we don't have any heavenly mother or mothers o....

italo: Which Church elders do you honour? I asked you that before.

Elders or bishops who have showÑ fine examples like timothy et all...