₦airaland Forum

PastelChic: when a child can differentiate right from wrong, good from bad, that child has reached age of accountability...

I think this should apply more to newly born babies.......

Segeggs: I think that concept was formed to save the little ones from hell. But "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", says the bible which i believe means we were all born with a sinful nature and can only be saved by only one name-jesus. Kids dying with that sinful nature doesnt mean they are hellbound as they return to dust until the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous when jesus will set things right.

air your own view.

I knw from the scriptures that only adults who can be accountable for there actions can be judged and could face either destruction or enjoy the gift of everlasting life.......

Little kids who barely know nothing are gifts from God.....I don't see why a lilttle new born that dies won't have the hope of being ressurected..........

I support your stance......

obadiah777: THIS FOOL IS CRAZY. 'KEEP CONFESSING POSITIVE THOUGHTS' AND GOOD THINGS WILL HAPPEN. WHAT ARE YA ? A HIPPY ? CRAZY NEGRO

Why u dey curse the guy na??.......

alexleo: @enilove,
again here is another place where soul is seperated from the spirit and body.-

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23 ).

Paul here was referring to the spirit,soul, and body of the composite christian church and not the souls,body and spirit of individuals..............

1 Corinthians 12:12-13
New International Version (NIV)
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts,
but all its many parts form one body, so it is
with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[a]
one Spirit so as to form one body—whether
Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were
all given the one Spirit to drink.


Paul was not in any way defining man to be tripartite but was referring to the welfare of the church(a composite body).......

Ken4Christ: Scriptures that teaches on the reality of hell as a place of torment where unbelievers are held in custody until the final judgment day are so overwhelming that no one can deny. In my next post, I will download all the scriptures that talks about hell and the source language of the translation. No honest person will go through these scriptures and continue to say there is no hell. if frosbel is honest why didn't answer enilove question.

Has it ever occured to you guys that Jesus went to HELL too??....

Ken4Christ: The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath. (Proverbs 15:24)

What does the statement ""that he may depart from HELL(which is ofcourse SHEOL) beneath"" mean??....

Please read this same verse from the NIV...
New International Version
(©2011)
The path of life leads upward for
the prudent to keep them from
going down to [b]the realm of the
dead.


Please my freind::::where is the realm of the dead??..........HELL fire??

Ken4Christ: Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. (Proverbs 23:14)

Let's see proverbs 23:14 from the NLT.....

Proverbs 23:14 from the NLT would show you that the earlier translators either did not understand what SHEOL signified or knowingly twisted the original hebrew word to suit there HELL fire myth...
_______________________________
Proverbs 23:14
New Living Translation (©2007)
Physical discipline may well save
them from death.
_______________________________
Once again SHEOL implied death and where the dead go to.......

Ken4Christ: The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. (Psalms 9:17)
[/b]

Once again SHEOL is used in psalm 9:17.....for the fact that nations too would be turned into SHEOL(which is HELL to you) tells you it isn't a literal place of torment but the common grave of man or denoting destruction(when applied to nations)............

Ken4Christ: These verses alone conveys the massage.

frosbel, comment on this three verses. If hell is grave, do you need to beat a child to deliver the child from grave?

If hell is grave, why did the psalmist say, it is the wicked that shall be turn into hell.

You see that you have a problem. You only quote those verse that appears to justify your stand while ignoring others that contradicts your stand.

Believers, keep the faith. Don't let anyone deceive you.

These verses support the scriptural stance that HELL is not a place of torment but a place for the dead(both good and bad),the common grave of man...........

If you want to talk about the lake of fire or gehenna then that's a different issue...but for you guys to come up here thinking th.e hebrews and greek words sheol and hades respctively means your fiery hell then NO,the scriptures won't agree........

Thank You

enilove: For Prosbel.

These are answers to your questions:
1
Where is there mentioned of a seperate entity called spirit which resides in man?

Job 32:8 " But there is a spirit in man: & the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding".
I hope you can now see where it is written.

I just don't know how this clear scripture that speaks against the spirit in man being an entity now becoming a support for it......are you still not understanding that the spirit in man is the breath of life??.....I don't think you're surÉ of what job was saying.......

NET Bible (©2006)
But it is a spirit in people, the
breath of the Almighty, that
makes them understand.


Once again the spirit is that breath from God which is a gift to mankind and not a seperate entity dwelling in us that can suffer or feel pain in a fiery HELL......

enilove: 2
If the spirit,which in your opinion is an entity in its own right,goes upward, where does d soul go to?

Psalm 16:10 "For thou will not leave my soul in hell: neither will thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." This is to tell you that the soul of some will go to hell and remain in hell ,when someone dies.
For the righteous, their souls will go to heaven and be with God. Also remember Proverb 15:24 " The way of life is above to the wise ,that he might depart from hell beneath.

Ahhh...now I see your problem which frosbel and some of us have tried so hard to rectify but still you guys won't even listen.....when psalms says for thou would not leave my soul in HELL I hope you know this verse applied strictly to Jesus..right??....now would you dis-agree that Jesus didn't go to HELL..??....you just landed yourself in some serious wahala o....what does HELL mean by the psalmist....now translation problems have arised which would also put Jesus amongst those who went to your fiery HELL...well for your info the original word used there at psalm is "sheol",which is the common grave of mankind which Jesus went to for 3days but was later ressurected......psalm in no way supports your some soul burning in HeLl and all that...all living souls would go to HELL before ressurection...

enilove: 3


What is the difference btw a soul and a spirit.?

A soul is a person's total self .It is also the active and essential part of your spirit being that differentiates you from others.
The spirit is the breath of God in us.The invisible force that keeps the body and soul to function as one and connected to God.

You are correct here scripturally speaking..but I don't still know how you would believe this truth and still hold on to the fact that the spirit in us is a seperate entitiy that survives death and continues living as a seperate entity....your colleagues here do not believe that the spirit of God is us is the breath of life and that the soul is the complete MAN......you can ask alexleo.....
But I Àlso seÉ a lil contradiction b®o....you sÀid at first that the soul is the complete man(when breath of life is infused),then you later said the life force in man is what keeps the body and soul to function...is the body and soul different or man is the living soul??.....




..

enilove: 4
Why does Genesis omit d a/c of the creation of a separate spirit and soul ,instead plainly states that man is dust with life of God in him?

God is a spirit ,He does not need to create what He has in His possession. Genesis 2:7 "And d Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,& breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,and a man became a living soul." That breath of life from God is the Spirit of God. So,how do you expect God to create what He has already?

Genesis is still confirming that at the beginning all God made was a living soul(by injecting the life force into the moulded dust) and not soul different,body different,then spirit(which your colleagues claim to be an independent entity which survives after death either in heaven or HeLl fire).....

enilove: A man is soul even when he is dead,it is the flesh and bones that would decay.His identity ,the soul, will either be in hell or be with God in heaven. David said this in Psalm 86:13" For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell".Note ! There is nothing like lowest grave.Graves are all of the same depth.The same Six feet.

Are you seeing your wrong exegesis??...when Jesu§ died where did he go to??...and which part of him survived after death before his ressurection??.....what goes back to God from the scriptures is the breath of life...and this includes both that of the good and bad.....so your soul seperation into hell and heaven theory does not work with the scriptures consistently.......and again you quoted psalm 86:13 which uses the hebrew word "SHEOL".....SHEOL means the common grave of man which Jesus also went to..in your version it is transliterated as HELL....Jesus went to HELL

enilove: This is to advice you to take the story of Lazarus ,narrated by Jesus ,as true life story and not a parable.

It sure is a parable....and y'all have not Ànswered pertiÑent questions attached this parable(real life event as you guys believe it to be)......


I have shown alexlÉo directly from the scriptu®es that this incident surely i§ a parable......

.....make one day them no snap the one wey the couple dey kiss o........

brainpulse: Go throuh Luke 16: 19-31 and see what Jesus was trying to pass across

The lesson I see Jesus passing through isn't related to literal torment of the ungodly.......

That is why I have asked what that rich man did to deserve being thrown into a fiery hell...........

What was the crime of the rich man??....

We need to get to the root of that parable...

dokie: doesnt your nwt bible have the portion where it says that he who calls his brother a fool shall answer for it in hell.

or you have a consolation while sinning because hell simply means blanking out or common mans grave and heaven is full already so you have nothing to worry about? even if one should accept that you made mistakes with other prophecies and teaching, for as long as those two remain, you guys are dancing the dance of death, and when the dance is complete, i hope you dont see the devil face to face.

this is totally absurd. how can anyone believe such falsehood? and still continues in such a group. what then is the motivation for holiness in a sin full world? i wont suffer for my sins and i wont experience glory for living rightously.

These are the real teachings of demons for all the devil wants to achieve is to provide motivation for sin and with JW, and sects like them and individuals like frosbel, he is spreading such demonic and satanic teachings in the world. Repent before it is too late. for if you continue spreading such demonic teachings you might not escape answering for it.
even if it is what you believe,believe it for yourself and keep the knowledge to yourself. dont go spreading it in the world, you are doing great harm to the gospel and you dont want to experience the consequencies of that.

Are you ready to discuss the hell fire dogma and about heaven or you just want to rant??...your mates are engaging in serious scriptural discussions on other threads as regards these topics ....can you go there and test your strenght of bible reasoning??.......

I choose to remain with a group that would learn from there mistakes and improve...........I choose to remain with a group that would everly anticipate an end to this satan ruled world.........

If you ask me about persons who teach the teachings of demons I guess you know who they are........we know persons who dig up teachings from pagans(demons) and tie them up to scriptures...and even when shown from the scriptures that it is utter wrong they choose to cling to it............

Being expectant of Gods kingdom does is no way alludes to one teaching the teachings of demons..except you don't know who or what a demon is........

I'll ask you this question::::

Would you be ready to make adjustments when a belief you once had does not allign with the scriptures??....would you??......

Pygru: My responsibility is to present Facts while Viewers scrutinise those Facts.
I decided to switch to 'religion section' in order to expose False teachers.
I DON'T PATAKE IN ENDLESS DISCUSSIONS.
#Presentfactsandevaporate


Keep on throwing tantrums

U don't partake in endless discussions??.......

Are you bold enough to even engage in any meaningful discussion??....

If you can give a retort to boomark.......

dokie: you are so vast in scriptures right? show me where it is written in your jehovers witness bible that mummifying bodies is a sin, show me where it is written that keeping fhe body of the dead is a sin offensive to God.

Ona don see question??........what you should be asking is has any servant of God ever practiced the mummifying of dead bodies for veneration??.....even Jesus was buries the very day he died...I wonder what you guys are storing up dead bodies for..........

And the name of my bible is not Jehovahs witness bible.........I use all existing bible translations.............

Pygru: I see.
Come to think of it, even If I operate multiple ID's, does that invalidate all my posts
My identity is #Inconsequential



'I donting knewet what my Identities Has to doet with topic of Discussion'

Your post is all muddled with lies,truths and mix up's.............

And instead of you to engage in the discussion you run away.........that's why I call you a fool......

Italo was the one discussing with me and not even you who posted thread....

beejaay: Prophecy = the supposed ability to predict the future when inspired by a deity(Now how can something Divinly Inspired become espectation that could be true or false)
(predict with divine authority) (definition from Encarta Dico)

point to note is this; if its prophecies then it should be rock solid else it becomes a fallacy a step brother of fantasy QED

just trolling though

They were speculations and not prophecies.....prophecies are only found in the scriptures and no where else..........

Our speculations and expectances were all from the scriptures........

JW's aren't prophets we are bible students.......

amanda2013: hahahahahaha thats ryt. Everyday Catholic ths catholic that spearheaded by this same ijawkid ok na 2day d hunter has become the hunted!

Ahh........you guys are attacking speculations we've left behind us decades ago........abi ona want make we go back to them??......I have never read in the scriptures were it says reading more scriptures to make needed adjustments is a crime...........but you do know what is a crime.......persistently and incessantly engaging in idol worship even when it is solely against Gods commands is what the definition of crime is.....

I want you to attack what I know now from the many more scriptures I've read.........

Can you and your ilks do that??

Pygru: you don dey make me vex ooh
How you take 'arrival' at this conclussion.

You and i definitly know you're one we all know .....hiding behind this I.D shows you are a child that can't face me boldly .....come out from that shell and let's discuss...I know many times you've been debunked and all you could do was go create an I.D to run around the place like a rat.......leave the pygru I.D and show your real self on that thread you created.....

alexleo: My dear, leave this people they are just making noise and claiming they know the scripture more than others(especially ijawkid). If you talk about the Holy Spirit ijawkid will ask you whats his name. Talk about the story of lazarus and the rich man he will ask you whats the name of the rich man. Do i need any other thing to confirm that this is the fruits of a false teacher. To them Jesus is a comedian who just talk anyhow and he may have probably been drunk the day he talked about the story of lazarus and the rich man? GOD IS EXPOSING THESE PEOPLE TO SHAME.

Now you act like my questions are irrelevant.....how can every being on earth and in heaven have there personal names except the holy spirit whom you confidently claim is a person??.........

I have exposed your jejuneness with the scriptures as to the fact that what we have on ground is a parable.............and if its a parable what point was Jesus making??........
ask yourself this question and stop calling me ""I too sabi""

Bobbysworld28: @ijawkid
For the sake of argument, let us agree it is a parable. Does dt mean it didn't happen? Jesus na fiction writer now. If Hell was nt real would Jesus wouldn't hv said there was such a place, would He? Obviously, something like dt HAD occured or had d possibilty of happening. It then presupposes dt ur claim abt wht happens after death according to ur account is faulty

Agree it is a parable first..I've shown clearly that it is a parable.......haven't I?...alexleo asked for it and I showed him.....

Now the question you should ask yourself is what was the meaning of the parable??....what point was Jesus trying to drive home??......have you asked yourself these questions??............

Pygru: Ijawkid you again ?
You done read wetin I write for this thread VVV finish?
https://www.nairaland.com/1252257/facts-should-know-jehovahs-witnesses#15162836

I dey there na........when I'm through with it I'll come back to you....you've never been ready to engage in meaningful discussions..but running around the place behind this I.D........when your cup full we go catch you...............

brainpulse: Well coordinated thought and write-up. Permit me to add that against views of many on the believe that Christ was giving a parable or just an illustration. Then we may be force to believe that His narration was basically founded on "LIES" because the narration called the Subjects by Names and also relating to names that had Pre-exited before Christ came to the world.

ON the second note. We must be forced to believe if Rev 1:18 is true and if he conveniently after death went to defeat the enemy then I believe He knew what He was saying and telling them what He knew and they dont know happened.

The question is then, if we want to probe into this issue with an open heart, why will Jesus told a lie to drive in His points when nothing like Hell, Abraham's bossom, the boundary exist? Why will he also lied against Moses and the prophets?

In Conclusion. I strongly believe if He was even making a Parable, it was a parable of what has happened or can happen because throughout all his parable, He talked about what can happen to illustrate and drive in His points.

How can you make or use an ambigous illustration to drive in a simple point or better put why will Christ use what they dont know to illustrate what they failed to comprehend in the first place.

My submission, it was not a parable or mere illustration but an event Christ knew about that was not known to any man.

Take a look at it again, it was a life and first hand narration of an event experienced by the narrator.

And I have asked y'all to tell us what that parable teaches....remember when Jesus gives a parable he drives home a point to his listeners...what point was Jesus trying to butress when he gave the parable of the rich man and lazaruz??.....was it that all bad people go to burn somewhere and then all the good guys go to heaven(as we know nobody has even answered if abraham was or is in heaven).......??.......

I want just one hell fire proponent to tell me the lesson from that real life event so to speak(parable from the scriptures).......

brainpulse: This is not church tradition, this is simple Biblical explanation. Why will Christ be making an illustration of what was not real or what He just framed up and lied about all the characters and events? What you are literally saying is that Christ is a pathological liar.

Read all His parables again and remove the cloak from your heart you will see.

Were the other parable real life events??..........

italo: Did you mention "sincere?"

You people make prophecies purportedly from God and they turn out to be false...

and you say you are "sincere"

Do you not know what "sincere" means?

I would sincere again because all there hard work was just for them to see the arrival of Gods kingdom...Is that not what a sincere christian would hope for and look forward to??.......should they have doubted that an end was coming and engage in the worlds affairs,,??........

beejaay: WOW so PROPHESIES IS NOW EQUAL TO EXPECTANT FANTASIES (PROFESHY=FANTASY).

I don learn new thing today (always on NL)

Who said prophecies was equal to expectant fantasies??.........

The koko here is be observant and see how world events unfold as the scriptures predicted....aren't we in the last days anymore??abi ona don forget??........

italo: Are you denying that Charles Taze Russell didnt say that Jesus would come back in 1914?

Are you also denying that he didnt say that Jesus had already come invisibly?

Did Jesus come in 1914 or not, Ijawkid?

Jesus was enthroned as king of Gods kingdom in 1914....Jesus didn't come...that was a misunderstanding........
JW have fully come to know that that day and hour no man knows....our anticipation and eagerness as you know created that zeal in us.......the JW today know so much than the russels and rutherfords.....those guys were eager bible students who have done there part.........

italo: MORE LIES, DECEIT AND HERESIES FROM JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

“…Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by Gods Holy Spirit or active force.” [b](Watch Tower p.402 Sept.1 1973)

“Avoid Independent Thinking .. How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.” (Watchtower Jan. 15 1983 22)

Yet, Ijawkid would always crucify Catholics for submitting to Church teaching and for believing that God's Church is visible and organizational.


“It is easy for the established churches of Christendom and other people to criticize Jehovah's Witnesses because their publications have, at times, stated that certain things could take place on certain dates. But is not such line of action in harmony with Christ's injunction to 'keep on the watch'? ... But is it not far preferable to make some mistakes because of overeagerness to see God's purposes accomplished… ?” (Watchtower Dec 1 1984 17-

But here is what they said earlier: “Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A. D. according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it...” (Studies in The Scriptures vol.4 p.621 1897 (Watchtower Reprints, July 15, 1905, p. 3576)

“The scriptures show that his second coming presence was due in 1874….This proof shows the Lord has been present since 1874…” (Watchtower.p.67, Mar.1, 1923)

“...we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914” (Watchtower founder, Charles Taze Russell, The Time is at Hand, p. 99).

“...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced” (Ibid., p. 101).

If you are saying the Scripture are saying this and giving a date, is this not prophecy? If this prophecy had come to pass would it not mean it was true a prophecy?


“Reexamine ... Vol. 2, pages 246 and 247; change the 37 to 40, 70 to 73 and 1914 to 1918, and we believe it is correct and will be fulfilled 'with great power and glory.”' (Studies in the Scripture, Vol. 7, p. 62)

“This chronology is not of man but of God ... of divine origin ... absolutely and unqualifiedly correct.” (Watchtower 7/15/1922, p. 217)

“CAN IT BE DELAYED UNTIL 1914?...our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can last so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble” (Watch Tower, 15 July 1894, p. 226. p. 1677 reprints).

Gods dates means what?

Once again understanding is what we didn't have back then which ofcourse we kept on searching for...........the chronology from the scriptural prophecies aren't the problem,but how it fits into our times is what we kept anticipating......and again I don't see what is wrong.......we didn't commit any crime.....the only crime we would have committed is if we were lax and never cared about scriptural prophecies......

The JW are ever more convinced that an end is imminent because of our relentless efforts in studying hard and seeing how scriptural prophecies fulfill and will fulfill......

italo: My question was: is it true? (especially the bolded).

italo: Jehovah's Witnesses may be "disfellowshipped" for a variety of reasons, such as attending a Catholic or Protestant church or receiving a blood transfusion. Disfellowshipping is the sect’s equivalent of excommunication, though somewhat more harsh. A disfellowshipped Witness may attend Kingdom Hall, but he is not allowed to speak to anyone, and no one may speak to him. The others are to act as though he no longer exists. This applies even to his family, who may only communicate with him as much as absolutely necessary.

TRUE OR FALSE?

I would say TRUE.......but your points are being exaggerated......we don't just disfellowship people....we only disfellowship unrepentant wrong doers........those who say no I want to go.....we let them go....if one decides he doesn't want to be a JW anymore then we let the individual go.......

And I have asked you to show me just one person who was disfellowshipped for taking blood transfusion.........

italo: I dont know, maybe you can show us Schools Jehovah's Witnesses own.

Jesus did not put in 90 percent of his time into preaching. His active ministry was 3 out of his 33 years on earth.

Jesus was the son of a carpenter and I'm sure he helped his father with his work.

So you don't know and you just felt like writing....we own schools and businesses bro..many JW's do...check for them.....but we put the preaching work first........

And please don't tell me Jesus had so much time for carpentry after his baptism........did he??.....

italo: Which Bible did Russell and Rutherford use?

Didnt Knorr adulterate the Bible to suit your sect's heresies?

Adulterate??....can you give me examples??......

Russel and rutherford used all bible renditions available.......

Are you saying fixing back Gods name to its original place amounted to adulteration??...please tell that to the frauds who removed it in the first place...

italo: In his 1920 book titled Millions Now Living Will Never Die. Rutherford taught that the millennium would start in 1925, that the patriarchs; Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were going to return to earth physically. To help God out he built a large palatial Spanish mansion in San Diego, California for Abraham Isaac and Jacob to live in, he called it Beth-Sarim -House of Princes, and tried to deed it to King David.

Some quotes of anticipating this event “There will be no slip -up.... Abraham should enter upon the actual possession of his promised inheritance in the year 1925” (WatchTower 10/15/1917, p. 6157)

“Beth Sarim was built in 1929 as proof that the resurrection would soon take place.” (Salvation p.311)

“The press has scoffed at Beth Sarim, but those faithful men of old will be back on earth before Armageddon ends.” (WatchTower 3/15/1937 p.86)

“Beth Sarim, built in 1930 is now held in trust for the occupancy of those princes on their return. “ (New World p.104)

“After 1925 expect shortly Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob…”(Way to Paradise p.224)”The undertakers will decorate these new rooms for the resurrected ones.” (ibid. p.228)

1925 came and went as do all their dates. When and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never showed up, Rutherford did not want to waste a perfectly good mansion so he moved into it himself and lived there until he died in 1942.

50 years later the Watchtower wrote “Beth Sarim was built for brother Rutherford’s use.” (1975 yearbook)

1975 YEARBOOK, p. 146: “The year 1925 came and went. Jesus' anointed followers were still on earth as a class. The faithful men of old times—Abraham, David and others—had not been resurrected to become princes in the earth. (Ps. 45:16) So, as Anna MacDonald recalls: '1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed.... Instead of its being considered a “probability,” they read into it that it was a “certainty,” and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their resurrection.”

5 years later they commented “Considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975.... Statements published that implied that such realiza­tion of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted ... the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.” (Watchtower 3/15/1980, p. 17)

What the Jehovah’s Witness organization actually said, “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old. . . (Millions now living will never Die , pp. 89-90)


These lies are from Jehovah's Witnesses authorized publications, arent they, Mr Ijawkid?

Once again they were expectant..............I see no reason why you have to kill yourself over this....I don't see how sincere hearted persons who are anticipating to see the patriarchs of old has now turned out to be a lie...........

I don't see how you tend to define misunderstandings as a LIE.....abi you no know the difference.....??........

italo: Before he got his religious career well underway, Charles Taze Russell promoted what he called "miracle wheat," which he sold at sixty dollars per bushel. He claimed it would grow five times as well as regular wheat. In fact, it grew slightly less well than regular wheat, as was established in court when Russell was sued. Later he marketed a fake cancer cure and what he termed a "millennial bean" (which a wag has said probably got that name because it took a thousand years to sprout).

Is this true?

And I'll ask you to ask the OP if this hogwash is true......

Fake cancer cure??.....this got me laughing......ask pygru who told him this.......

italo: My question was: is it true?

Is it true that Charles Taze Russel (the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses) lied that Jesus would come back in 1914...and when we didnt see Jesus, he quickly lied again that Jesus had already come invisibly?

Can you define what a lie is??......these guys only had on thing on there mind.......and that was keeping awake and being on the watch..........the truth is you are not doubting the chronology itself but the speculations and expectancy.............now that we understand better why don't you ask what we believe rather than paste from a site??............

When I take on you guys I go to the scriptures.........being expectant is not a sin.......if it is tell me......

Jesus as we know has been enthroned as king....bible prophecies has made the JW's know that,which in turn has made us ever alert.........

Russel wasn't lying...he was only doing more study.........I doubt if you noticed that.....

italo: So the fervor that made your sect to lie that the world would end in 1975 is from God?

We didn't lie,we only speculated.........being expectant...........I hope you know the difference.......what would we stand to gain if we lied??...were we going to make money from it??........we were only expectant....I don't see anything with being expectant of Gods kingdom........

Is there anything wrong mr italo??

frosbel: It is funny that you dig out an article I penned eons ago to cause a rift in the camp.

Believers these days

Its funny when they expect sincere hearted persons after finding out that what they once believed was an error,not to make adjustments.....

That's why a yeye person like pygru would dig out your old posts just to malighn you.....the funny thing is that he's doing it behind an unknown I.D....all I want is just for the bobo to show his real sef.....