₦airaland Forum

And bidam before I forget the spirit is the breath of life..............

Bidam: We are all made up of three parts: spirit, soul and body. The spirit of man, also called the spirit of life or the breath of life, is mentioned in the scriptures more than any other spirit. When Adam was created, he had the spirit of life breathed into his body and he became a living soul (Genesis 2:7); he became spirit, soul and a breathing body; three parts all wrapped up in one package. God gives breath and spirit to all the people on the earth (Isaiah 42:5). Without the spirit of man, our bodies are lifeless (James 2:26).

It is the spirit that is tormented in hades. The dead person feels pain, heat, anguish, thirst, discomfort; they
can talk, reason and pray; they can still love their families and be concerned for them (Luke 16:23 to 31).

I hope and adam and eve are facing the story you just wrote up there??...........

Bidam your exposition is just so false.......

Does not even agree with the genesis account........

Smh!!!!!!!.......

striktlymi: Morning Boomark,

The arguments you guys have put forth is quite weak!

Keep calling them weak....when you are tired of your confused trinity dogmata you can come back to read john 20:17............

musKeeto: shaarapp... dat small place wey you dey kill antelope and fish na im u dey call creeks.. lol

Lol....muskeeto never even know me o.........you better leave that country wey u dey come make I give/ show u one line wey u fit burst dey tap fresh crude oil............

The oil spillage don pursue all the antelope them...so its tapping all the way......

bolaino: well I don't belive in hellfire be it literally or esoterically, and there's no way u can relate an all loving God to e place of eternal torment, so hell is out of the question,

But my question still remains, if u guys believe that the concept of hell was as a result of interpolation of the bible by early christian fathers, does'nt that question the credibility of the bible? How sure are u that there are'nt other interpolations u don't know about?

Well bro that's why we have to always refer to the original words to get the real sense of scriptural word.......abi??......

The original words which are hades and sheol ,all mean the common grave of man.......how it became hell is what amazes all of us..........if one has problem with words then he or she should refer back to the original greek and hebrew words used to avoid confusion...

alexleo: THERE IS NOTHING PERFECTLY SAID ABOUT IT THAN THAT IT IS PERFECTLY SAID AS LONG AS IT SUPPORTS YOUR FALSE TEACHING. WHERE DID JESUS CALL THIS STORY A PARABLE? RUSHING INTO CONCLUSION THAT ITS A PARABLE BECAUSE ONE MAN'S NAME WAS NOT MENTIONED WHEREAS TWO OTHER NAMES WERE MENTIONED BUTTRESSES THE FALSEHOOD IN THE TEACHING.

Is luke chapter 16:1 a parable or not...what about luke chapter 15:11??.....

My bro you better take your time o........

alexleo: YOUNG MAN, I HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO THAN TO WASTE MY PRECIOUS TIME ANSWERING YOUR USELESS QUESTIONS. YOU ARE A FALSE TEACHER. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE DISCUSSED HERE THAT YOU LOOKED INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S VIEW AND ALLOW IT TO CHANGE YOUR FALSE STAND BECAUSE OF YOUR PRIDE THAT MAKES YOU FEEL YOU VE READ THE BIBLE FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION. ANY EEDIOT CAN DO THAT TOO AND GIVE THE SAME INTERPRETATION YOU ARE GIVING SO STOP MAKING NOISE ABOUT YOU KNOWING THE BIBLE. I CANT BE CARRIED AWAY BY YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS. NOW YOU ARE HERE TO CONVINCE THE POSTER WHO SAID HE WANTS TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DEAD AND NOT ME, FACE HIM AND CONVINCE HIM. AFTER ALL YOUR EFFORT YOU VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE YOUR TEACHINGS ARE BASELESS AND UNREASONABLE. THE QUESTIONS HE ASKED YOU COULDNT PROVIDE CONVINCING ANSWERS TO HIM THAT MEANS YOU ARE FAILING. KEEP TRYING UNTIL YOU CONVINCE HIM(IF YOU CAN), NOT ME.

YOU VE NOT TOLD ME WHERE JESUS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE THAT THE STORY OF LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN IS A PARABLE AND YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU WHERE ABRAHAM WAS AND THE NAME OF THE RICH MAN. SEE WHAT YOUR FALSE TEACHING IS DOING TO YOUR REASONING?

Ok let's see how luke chapter 16:1 started....
Luke 16:1....

1..Jesus told his disciples: “There was a rich
man whose manager was accused of wasting his
possessions.

Verse 19 which begins the lazarus vs abraham issue starts exactly the same way...

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in
purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every
day.

_____________________________

Alexleo I hope you can see what I'm seeing....would you say that the story Jesus gave in verse 1 is an allegory or a real life event??.........

Also look at luke 15:11.....this we all know its the parable of the lost son....

11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had
two sons.

________________________

Ahhh there we go again with the expression ""there was""..........I hope you are now convinced that that story was a parable??...uh??

My problem is you jump to call me a fake teacher when you haven't considered the scriptures completely.....if the story of lazarus and the rich man isn't a parable can you please tell us which lazarus was in that real life story of Jesus??......I'll once again ask::: where abraham was??....

alexleo: @OP, ANYTHING YOU DONT BELIEVE IN YOU TERM IT CATHOLIC TRADITION OR PAGAN TRADITION. THATS NONSENSE TO ME. ANYBODY CAN CREATE ANY HISTORY AND PUT ON THE INTERNET.

Naaa........the teaching that billions of people would be in a thermo nuclear fire burning literally for all eternity is not supported by the scriptures.......

bolaino: the funny thing about believers is their ability to irrationalise everyother person's belief or views as long as it does'nt conform to what they think is right, you, frosbel, ihedinobi, goshen360, and ur ilk, all think that u have this divine understanding of the "supposed word of God" but NEWS FLASH!!! So does the over 10 billion people on this planet,

There's no human who can confidently say he is absolutely sure of anything, cos the honest truth is u can not be absolutely certain about anything, even the biblical God is'nt even absolutely certain cos if he was sure that abraham was a loyal servant he would'nt TEMPT him, (yes not test, he tempted abraham) by asking him to use his son as a sacrifice,

My point is that the way u feel divinely inspired is the same way adherents of other religions feel divinely inspired, and it is wrong for u to claim better understanding of life than them, everything has to do with consciousness, how conscious or how aware are u of the goings in this world, so u guys should stop this ITK (I too know) stance and take a more humble stance towards knowledge.

I know you'll call me ITK......we never said we know it all......

This hell fire issue has been hammered from all corners ...is it from the mistranslation of the greek n hebrew words for grave or the fact that there is a lake of fire which is different from your hell fire in which the same hell would be thrown inside??.......or is it the fact that when we die we reamain in our graves like Jesus was until we are ressurected??....

My bro its up to you cling to the myth of hell fire(literal eternal torment in a fire)......but don't associate God with such wickedness......

Bidam: frosbel is actually JW..he likes denying that fact..what a hypocritical stance.

He isn't one.......why is it that when people abandon myths for truth you guys conclude they are JW's??.........

Ahh I see!!!!!!.......

The earlier you guys forfeit pagan based doctrines for the pure teachings of Christ and the prophets the better........

The truth is unknown to you guys the hell fire dogma teaches that God is the most wicked being ever.........even more wicked than satan......

Logicboy03: Which creek you sabi? You be swamp man!!! I no go drown for you side ooo!

Chei LB dey use me play o.....na we dey the creeks na.........

italo: So prophecies no longer come from God?

Prophecies from God are already in the scriptures......matured christians only juxtapose them with the happenings around the world.........awareness my bro.....I guess you don't have that.....

italo: If your doctrines can change, how do you know the ones you hold today are true and will not change tomorrow?

Example??.....you mean trinity,xmas,hell fire,easter,neutrality to politics and wars etc or our observance to world events??......you know our tenets.....the foundation doesn't change.....we remain meticulous followers of Christ.......

italo: And who inspired the first one that was later declared wrong? God or satan?

I have told you.....the fervor for seeing an end to this wicked world is the driving force..which ofcourse is from God......

And that drive is still intact........that's why we preach tirelessly........

I guess you don't have time for that since you're pre-occupied with idol worship....

Bidam: this is what you said...we all know (Eccl 12:7 KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Can you tell us where it is stated in scripture that Abraham spirit was in the grave?

I was just repeating babby's words when I wrote that,not that I wasn't in support of it..................I wanted him to explain what he meant by that.........

Logicboy03: Ode...I am from Niger-Delta.....what do you know about creeks?

Lol....I know you're from the niger delta...but you've been MIA for a while now......if you wanna get all creeky again you contact the right people...............

italo: So wo was the inspiration behind the false prophecies you call "mistakes?" God or Satan?

The drive for truths and also anticipation of Gods kingdom is what was responsible......

italo: But you can see that something is wrong and you remain stiff-necked. Your sect made a prophecy purportedly from God that the world would end in 1975. This is 2013 and the world has not ended. Who lied? God or your sect? And you remain there. Are you not stiffinecked?

Why should I have left??........do we still hold on to 1975....??...besides the 1975 issue was a speculation and wasn't even a stamped fact back then..........

A stiff necked person is one who would hold on to something for all eternity even when shown the way to make improvements....

italo: You mean you don't joke with your false prophecies.

I don't joke with end time events and how they fit into scriptural prophecies found in the bible.........if you are not doing that then I guess you are not anticipating an end......abi??...

italo: Why should I ask that? Do you ever ask what Catholics believe?

Ofcoures I do.......I don ask tire.....and we've argued over it much on this forum.......

italo: That is a lie. Every Catholic tells you that they worship God alone yet you run around saying that we worship Mary, Saints, Pope, statues, rosaries, candles etc.

Ahhh!!!...........now you see all the wahala u mentioned.??,,,..if the witnesses were in you guys shoes they would have abandoned all of those fettish practices and made adjustments.....now that's the difference between a JW and stiff necked people like you....even when the scriptures itself shows that you are plain wrong,you guys stubbornly choose to stick to what you do because of traditions..........

For example::.

If after studying much I come to a realization that the use of beads in worship isn't christian or has any foundation in christianity but rather on paganism why can't I make adjustments??.......

Ask yourself.......ask......

Bobbysworld28: @Ijawkid
The name of d place is nt stated by Jesus. Does dt mean d story was a lie?

@Frosbel
D verse said they came out after his resurrection. Pls read d fine print

If the place wasn't mentioned by Jesus then that even makes it more a parable.....

If we can tell where abraham was then we can tell where we go when we die.......

I want you guys to tell me where he was...in his grave or?....

alexleo: Now see a self acclaimed Genesis to revelation bible champion denying what the scripture wrote and twisting it just to push his false message up. GOD FORBID BAD THING. So they woke up because of the earthquake. Now tell us how many dead people that have woken up from their grave (to go show themselves to people)in the earthquakes we have experienced round the world recently. FALSE TEACHERS AT WORK.

Define a false message??...oh !!!! You expect me to had retorted your way so that I can contradict Jesus being the firstborn from the dead??.........the dead bodies were ejected from there graves as a result of the earth quake and not a ressurection .....

the truth is that many translations have rendered those verses to make it look like those dead bodies experienced ressurection,rather than the bodies jettisoned out of there tombs as a result of an earth quake..........

The fact is Jesus' death did not cause any ressurection at that moment because not until Jesus was ressurected on the 3rd day did the way to heaven was open for any of the saints.......

Another point that corroborates what I'm saying is the fact that the apostles later never made reference to this incident...if there was an actual ressurection then it'll negate the fact that Jesus is the firstborn from the dead...then pauls words found at 1 corinthians 15 would be an error because he according to you guys forgot this event.....



Learn to give right interpretations to scriptures so that u don't end up contradicting yourselves......

Bidam: And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: “I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob”? He is not God of the dead but of the living.

Lol....where was abraham na??...d question hard??....I want to show you guys that you know next to nothing about what happens to us when we die.......

Just tell me where abraham was.

alexleo: False teachers at work. Whats your business with where Abraham was when Jesus did not mention it? Even the one he mentioned about the rich man being in hell did you believe it? We are not here to add to what Jesus said. Where he stopped we stop. He didnt mention where Abraham was and we leave it at that. The hell he mentioned is the one we can talk about. STOP BEING UNREASONABLE. Tell me any parable in the bible that Jesus mentioned anybody's name.
Here is a list of them-
1. The Parable of the Mustard Seed
2. The Parable of the Leaven
3. The Parable of the Hidden Treasure
4. The Parable of the Pearl of Great Price
5. The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard
6. The Parable of the Lost Son
7. The Parable of the Good Samaritan
8. The Parable of the Persistent Widow
If am missing any write it. One common thing about all these parables is that NOBODY'S NAME was mentioned. How come names were mentioned in the story of Lazarus and the rich man? Not just names but names of two prominent children of God?
In your desperate(as rightly described in another thread) move you also ask us about the name of the rich man. It sounds so silly to dismiss a story where two prominent names we know in the bible are mentioned as parables just because one unknown rich man's name was not mentioned. You people sound so blind and unreasonable. And if it was a story that favoured you people and we say its a parable you people will scream to the high heavens asking us to show you in the bible where it was called a parable. YOU PEOPLE ARE JUST CUT AND JOIN BIBLE STUDENTS. If you people were wise enough, by now you would go hide your false doctrine because the more you propagate it the more you people are being exposed to shame. Now this thread was opened by a completely strange person in the discussion about heaven and hell in this nairaland yet the guy(bobbysworld) is really dealing with you people here. At least none of you will accuse those of us who have been propagating this bitter truth as the sponsors of this one.

So much rant and you haven't answered where abraham was..was he in heaven or in purgatory or some other abode you kept him...........

Why should we leave at that??.........remember our discussion is what happens to us when we die..right??....

Where was abraham in the parable Jesus gave..??don't shy away from this question....you would end up being the false teacher if you can't answer this simple question...you think its all about ranting??......

You forgot to even mention that the rich mans name wasn't used.....and when you say prominent people I ask....which of the lazarus in particular was Jesus referring to??.....was it the same lazarus he ressurected??........

Calm down and let's discuss the issue before you run hyper.....

Numbers

1....Where was abraham??.....
2...Which of the lazarus's did Jesus mention in that parable that should warant it being a real life event??...
3....What did the rich man do to deserve burning in hell fire??...because I know in y'alls brains bad people swim and burn in your interim HELL fire.......besides that,was the rich man a bad man??...

Let's start with these questions bro...let's start..oya

frosbel: we are born with a sinful nature is not the same as being a sinner

a sinful nature only means that we are inclined to sin and that happens when we get to the age of choosing between right or wrong.

Sin is an act, not a state.

A baby has no clue of wrong and right and even a child up to a certain age may not have fully developed knowledge of sin and the woeful implications.

"Because they have forsaken Me and have made this an alien place and have burned sacrifices in it to other gods, that neither they nor their forefathers nor the kings of Judah had ever known, and because they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind;- Jeremiah 19:4-5

Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. - Deuteronomy 1:39

You're correct......

The fact is we all are born with the inherent sinful nature of adam....nothing more nothing less.......

Frosbel I hope this is what you agree with......

Segeggs: why do catholics need candles when they have PHCN, sunlight, generators, rechargeable lamps,torchlight etc?

oboy no kill with laugh oooo.....

adewasco2k: 1. He gave me 50k and didnt even touch me.....like seriously?
2. Yes, i slept in his house but nothing happened....sure we know
3. Trust me now, i didnt allow him do anything nasty when i visited him in Abuja ....oh really, may be he didnt get nasty anyway
4. I dont know why this girls are flaunting iPad's i dont like iPad its too big....girl i haerd you asking a dude how much a UK used iPad costs

one girl been tell me number 2.....



inside my mind iI come say this girl don lie well well.....either she been think say I be pikin..

Bobbysworld28: Matt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Pls explain d verses up there incase I'm seeing double.
Fyi, if u say d rich man & lazarus story is a parable, r u saying it was fabricated or is d story based on a lie? Could Jesus hv used a lie to buttress an argument? I dare nt comprehend dt because he knw no sin.
From d foregoing we need 2 ask ourselves where Abraham's bosom is. Is it still applicable after Christs resurrection?
Pls answers r welcome

That verse u quoted simply says the bodies of those dead came out of there tombs as a result of the earth quake......we should not misunderstand that verse by thinking ""arose"" or ""lifted out"" or ""raised up"" signifies a ressurection.......nAaaaaaa........


If we choose to believe that a ressurection of these persons took place then we would have to disagree when it is said Jesus is the first born from the dead.....and not until the 3rd day after Jesus' death did he become the firstborn from the dead..........

When we look at scriptures we should make sure that it doesn't contradict the rest of the bible..........

And as regards the parable:::::
Parables are not lies neither are they real life events.............

Jesus used parables to drive home points not to confirm a real life event.......

See the definition of parable......

par·a·ble
[par-uh-buh l]

-n.
1. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.


That is why you have the parable of the 10 virgins.........the parable of the prodigal son....they aint and were never real life happenings......

@frosbel the reason that was given from the pasted post is not the reason why JW's refuse blood transfusion.....the single and real reason for JW's refusal of blood transfusion is because abstinence from blood is a scriptural injunction.....the issue of original is not even connected to it...

I'm just trying to correct that error........

Pygru: Open a [/b]new[/b] thread

Go to this thread...

www.nairaland.com/1252753/christianity-really-monotheistic-religion

Deep sight just created a thread for the trinity doctrine you love so much....

Can you just go there and let's see what you got??.......

Deep Sight: But then you do not believe in the Doctrine of the Trinity, and as such your answer is understandable. This question is really directed at Christians who believe in the Trinity and assert that their faith is yet monotheistic.

Ahh!!!!.....deepsight you would soon see some fellows come up here to tell you that 1 God in three persons or one God manifesting in 3 different aspects all equals to one God......

Anybody who believes in the trinity can believe anything.........

Bobbysworld28: Lazarus was in Abraham's bossom. Abraham's spirit was in d grave. He wasn't definitely in heaven.
We r all learning here so I suggest if ijawkid has clearer definitions he should explain or give us a link.

Wht I understand abt Matt 27 is dt all spirits in d grave were liberated because d perfect sacrifice had been rendered.
If anyone has anoda explanation, I'm open.

Abrahams spirit was in the grave and not in heaven.......so where exactly is abrahams bossom??....I'm asking you this question so that you yourself can see that the parable of the rich man and lazaruz is what it is......a PARABLE......

Talking about matthew 27.....that portion of the scripture never talked about spirits being liberated...I don't know if that's what you read.....

Is that what you read from matthew 27:52??.......

musKeeto: But I thought the soul was different from the body?

Abi upon resurrection, the physical body os restored along with the soul? Confused right now..

Hehehehe.....e be like you go ask image 123 and immortality of the soul proponents this question because I don't believe the soul is different from the body per se......from my understanding of the scriptures man is the soul.........

The teaching of physical body restored with the soul is one big hogwash.....

Bobbysworld28: This was an actual event, I think.
Moreover upon his death they were freed from dt place. Matthew 27:50

Please how do u understand matthew 27:50??...

Bobbysworld28: @dorox
Most times Jesus spoke in parables in other times he spoke plainly. After reading this part again I believe he was being plain. This story is right after he instructs against a man putting his wife away (Luke 16).
Moreover he named names. He mentioned Abraham and Lazarus by name. This was no parable. This was an actual event, I think.
Moreover upon his death they were freed from dt place. Matthew 27:50

From that parable where can we say abraham was??.....if you decide to look at that parable as not a parable per se but a real life experience then I just want you to answer where abraham and lazaruz were.. was.......

musKeeto: What do you mean by we become dust?
What becomes dust?

When I say dust I mean we decay...we rot.....

From the ground we were made,and back to the ground we return......