₦airaland Forum

handelex:
Go and sleep.

The moral of the story is - you got cooked.

handelex:
Lol I couldn't care less if Bilbao battered United, that was on Fergie, but it doesn't in any way change the fact that United had the easiest route to an Europa league win under Mourinho playing the likes of Rostov and St Etienne etc Get that into your thick skull.

Oga stop beating about the bush. Seems the only straw you're clutching at now is mentioning Ole. Thought you said they're not in the same league so why pitting them against each other. Pit Jose against his mates in Guardiola. Meanwhile Ole is comfortably in 2nd why he's in Europa Conference spots.

If you attend a church, tell your Pastor to deliver you from victimhood and fanboyism since you're adamant that Europa league and Carabao cup is an over achievement for Jose and a club like United.

You really need to give your head that wobble.

Getting sacked isn't always about performance and I agree but Jose has been sacked in his last 3 jobs because of performance.
IFFHS can give him that, he's coached more years than all the coaches there but right now the world's best coach in struggling to qualify for Europa Conference League. Now deal with that.

Look at him emotional.

raumdeuter:
2 yrs out of 20 makes it 18
Pep started in 2008 and took a year off making 11yrs

Mourinhos Chelsea Inter Madrid United were juggernauts

Actually before Pep and Mourinho joined, City and Man utd finished level on points in the league

Mourinho’s Chelsea weren’t juggernauts - they hadn’t won a league title in 50 years.

Mourinho’s Inter weren’t juggernauts, they hadn’t won the champions league in 45 years.

Mourinho’s Madrid had become slaves to Pep’s Barca, they hadn’t reached UCL Q/final in 6 seasons, hadn’t won copa del Rey in 18 years.

Mourinho’s United were the worst he joined - they had won no league in 3 years by finishing 7th, 5th & 4th. They won a miserable FA cup final by beating Palace. This was a club that never finished lower than 3rd under SAF.

But you want to compare these clubs to a club that recently won the TREBLE, the Barca that won CL as recent as the previous 3 years or the City that won the PL after SAF had retired and never finished below 4th since their takeover.

City & United finished level on points in 15/16 because City’s interests were in the CL - they reached the semis and they had to rest players for more important games than top 4 that was already secure.

You want to know the last time United reached the semis? 10 years ago.

Juggernaut my ass!

raumdeuter:
How many years gap did Mourinho have between 2000 and 2020

Do the Math I wait

There’s no other math to be done. I have given you the ratio as things stand.

Until Pep gets above Mourinho, you should zip it.

Mourinho had gap years. He left Chelsea in Sep 2007, joined Inter in June 2008.

He left United in Dec 2018, joined Spurs in November 2019. That’s like 2 years.

Besides that, he’s managed average clubs like Porto, Inter, United & Chelsea in that period while Pep has only managed juggernaut clubs like City, Bayern and Barca.

Pep only joins the highest spender in the league. If you can’t guarantee him that you will outspend rivals, Pep isn’t interested.

McTominay:
Oga city are not miles ahead because they have 3 to 4 quality midfielders, what city have that every other clubs doesn't have are quality replacements; that's all.
in my United team, the only out and out DM is Matic. Both Fred and mctominay are CMs and have to be played side by side. There is also an imbalance in right side of United's team. The goalie is another big reason, for the past 2 seasons Sergio Romero should have been our no.1 same way Henderson has benched de Gea; but the higher found the call to tough to make.

When Mourinho asked for this depth in the squad, United fans told him he moans too much that he should coach what he’s got.

City were already miles ahead of United when Pep/Jose arrived in the summer of 2016 and yet the Glazers refused to back Mourinho by signing him 10 players while Pep signed 25 players before Jose was sacked.

One cannot say United don’t deserve their misery. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

BARAJ92:
What are you even saying. As if, it is easy to win the champions league every season, Mention any manager apart from Zidane that have win the champions league in consecutive years. Same Mourinho that has always been relieved of his duties, mention one club that has sacked Guardiola in between the season.
What happen to Mourinho that he won only a league title with Madrid with world class players that later won the champions league 4 times after he was sack.

Nobody said Pep should have won the CL every season at Bayern. After inheriting a side that just won the TREBLE, you would expect at least one final under Pep. Pep wasn’t hired to win Bundesliga - he was brought in to win the CL.
Therefore, he failed his primary objective.

Madrid only signed world class players after Jose left. He had already won them the league, won copa del rey(after 18 years) and got them to UEFA semis(after 6 years of getting eliminated in round of 16).

Mourinho already laid a foundation and Florentino roofed the house after Jose left. I know most of you don’t remember this but it was after Jose left that they bought
Bale(£86m), Isco(£30m), Casemiro(£6m) James(£67m), Kroos(£25m), Keylor Navas(£10m), etc.

handelex:
A season before Mourinho was employed to Chelsea, they have finished second and in the previous season, they have been eliminated in the semi final, why didn't Mourinho win a champions league trophy with them or a premier League title after his return to premier League.

Mourinho won the league with Chelsea immediately he was hired. He also got into semifinal and was only eliminated by a ghost goal Liverpool scored - otherwise he would have faced Milan in the final. It was Mourinho’s Chelsea that eliminated Barcelona that season.

handelex:
Currently, Mourinho have lost his winning touch, Most top clubs would go for Guardiola before considering Mourinho.

He hasn’t lost his winning touch. He’s won a trophy in every club he’s been and I have no doubt he will win at Spurs too - it will just take longer because Spurs FC are bottlers.

It seems he’s lost his touch because he takes difficult jobs, he takes jobs from clubs that are in trouble. Pep takes ready made jobs. SAF approached Pep in America and the rumor was that the Glazers couldn’t match Pep’s ambitions. He dumped SAF for Bayern Munich(the softest job in the world).

handelex:
Why then do we have terms like "group of death" if there's no easier route. When the strongest team we faced in that tourney was a young Ajax team, that should tell you alot.

SAF wasn’t beaten in a group of death. He faced Bilbao in the knockout and he was destroyed home and away by Bielsa.

United were better and bigger than Bilbao in 2012 and still SAF lost - so even if any of Ole or SAF had managed United in 16/17 season, they could still have lost to any of the teams United faced that year.

SAF was eliminated in a CL group that contained Benfica, Basel and Otelul Galati - that wasn’t a group of death. It was the easiest group that season so there’s no proof SAF or Ole wouldn’t have been eliminated in 2017.

handelex:
So that United overpaid for Maguire and AWB now gives credence to your misguided point that Mourinho overachieved? Are you even reading what you're typing right now
You just lost it here.

Whose fault was it that United overpaid? Since Mourinho left, United have made significant changes to the team and yet they seem further from the trophy than any time under Mourinho.

United played in 3 finals under Mourinho before the first two years. It’s been more than 2 years under Ole and his team that has been pumped with enough money but still, the Norwegian fraud can’t get into a final.

Give your head a wobble, handelex.

handelex:
What of when he was sacked during his 2nd stint at Chelsea or United?
Normally when differences are unreconcilable, there is an inevitable parting of ways either through sacking or mutual agreement, however Jose has been sacked in his last 3 jobs because of how shit he became on the job and wanting to burn everything to the ground.

I am just letting you know getting sacked isn’t always about performance. You watch enough football to know this. Villas-Boas was recently sacked because he didn’t want a certain player that the board of his club wanted - that had nothing to do with the results on the pitch.

IFFHS has proven my point that Jose is the best manager this century. Nothing you say matters here. You will just continue to dance around the bush after getting buried with facts and logic.

I am tired of this argument now. When you have something fresh to say concerning Mourinho, holla at me. IFFHS claimed Mourinho is the best amongst his peers in the last 20 years, I checked my workings and it agrees with the organization.

If you think Pep or Ole or Allardyce are better, take your matter to IFFHS.

handelex:
Don't push it abeg
United had the easiest route for that Europa League win in decades, we even nearly blew it in the semis Celta Vigo.

There’s nothing like easiest route. You can only beat what is put in front of you. Did Mourinho decide who United will play?

Why couldn’t SAF beat Bilbao in 2012? You mean Bilbao was bigger than SAF’s United?

handelex:
Mourinho overachieved at United? No wonder he has brainwashed your likes that finishing 2nd with us was the best he had achieved in his career.

If he didn’t overachieve by winning 3 trophies and finishing 2nd(81 points), why did Ole spend £150m on the defence? He should have thought he could win with what Jose won with, don’t you think?

handelex:
You're sacked when you're no longer performing or turned to shit at your job. Sacking means nothing to you yet you're calling for Ole's head at the moment.

That’s not even remotely true.

Jose was sacked in 2007 with only 2 points behind the leaders(Arsenal) in September. Are you suggesting Mourinho was no longer performing with just being 2 points behind the leaders in September?

If we use the same yardstick for every manager, do you know how many times Ole, Pep or Klopp would have been sacked in the last 3 years?

TrebleChamp:
I want him to win it so players like Kane can finally have a medal....

Even if he does that, they would say Kane is too big for carling cup medal. They never give Jose any credits.

Mourinho has turned Kane into a monster - top goal scorer, top assist charts. Does he get any credits for making Kane a complete forward? No.

All we ever hear is his toxicity, dinosaur tactics & negative football.

Meanwhile, Shaw has only 5 assists(28th in the league) and every time you put the TV on, the subject is always how Ole has turned Shaw into the best left back in the league.

handelex:
He should be grateful LVG gave him an easy tournament to win, a tournament he called rubbish.

Only Jose could have won that tournament out of all the managers that have managed United. Ole, SAF, LVG all got into Europa & they got battered. I still remember Bielsa’s Bilbao playing Ferguson’s boys off the park.

handelex:
If he left solid foundations at all the clubs he's been to, why are you bragging about those clubs not being to replicate what he achieved when he was there ala Porto and Inter, even United?

If he also overachieved, they will never be able to replicate what he achieved. Mourinho winning the CL with those teams is like Ranieri winning PL with Leicester.

handelex:
Even the Chelsea you're talking about sacked his ass last time around before he destroys the legacy he had there.

So much for foundations.

Ancelotti has been sacked 11 times, he’s won more CL titles than Mourinho and Pep.

Only amateurs use sacking as a crutch in an argument. What has sacking gotta do with anything?

popizaino:
No,the thing with UCL is that ,it is likely to favour teams that had previously won it before, than newcomer. That is why even if Atletico Madrid tries they will still get beaten by Madrid in finals. Can't you see there are no new winners in UCL all this while save for Chelsea.

The same way Jose Mourinho led Porto and inter Milan to UCL finals is the same way Diego simeone has led Atletico Madrid to UCL finals but history came to pass.
You think its beans that Atletico Madrid were in possession in the 92th minute but real Madrid found a way to take the to extra time ?
Thierry Henry missing chances against Barcelona is all part of UCL jinx.
Terry a sport kick way from winning in 2008 was part of UCL jinx


UCL jinx is real .

Mourinho did nothing special winning ucl with clubs who have previously won it .

I like your line of thinking because you actually identify there’s a jinx and a mentality to beat. However, this jinx still exists for clubs that stopped winning after a certain number of years(I would say after 5 seasons).

Look at how long Liverpool suffered to win the PL. They hadn’t won it in 30 years. They came close in 2014 and Gerrard slipped. They came close in 2009 and Rafa Benitez meltdown happened live on TV attacking SAF.

This is Liverpool that had won the league 18 times and then failed to win it for a 30 year period. The jinx is real. Look at Arsenal since invincibles? Look at United - already charting the same territory.

It would take a serial winning manager to deliver another league title at United. I just hope and pray it won’t take 30-40 years like Liverpool.

handelex:
Rubbish.

A good manager leaves a solid foundation for his successor to build on and continue the winning culture not burning everything down and leaving a toxic environment behind.

That Mourinho won something in his first season at United was the work of Van Gaal which he destroyed and we are here today.

You mean the same LVG that got into CL, got demoted into Europa and still got battered by bottom tier teams?

Mourinho left a solid foundation in every club he’s been. Chelsea wouldn’t be a big club today without Mourinho - even long after he left, his 4-3-3 formation was kept for many many years.

That Mourinho won something was the reason he was able to use his charisma to charm players like Zlatan & Pogba to the club while in a Europa spot.

handelex:
What's the meaning of this? Like izzit meant to be a bragging right or what?

It is.....

The fact that other managers have done it immediately rubbishes Pep’s achievement and indicates he’s not special.

How long ago the clubs had won it before the manager’s arrival also indicates the mentality the manager had to beat to win it.

raumdeuter:
226 points over 20yrs vs 180 points over 12yrs

Do the Math while I wait

Mourinho had gap years in those 20 years and he managed plenty of underdog clubs while Pep only goes where failure is impossible.

Mourinho has 4 IFFHS awards in 20 years
Guardiola has 2 IFFHS awards in 12 years

Do the math while I wait.

raumdeuter:
Madrid have won it since Jose left,
Chelsea have won it since Jose left

Every club Pep has managed has won the CL since Pep left them.

Can you say the same about Mourinho? No

Mourinho with 226 points

This argument is over.

IFFHS has ended this debate. Pep is struggling below 200 points and the toxic, archaic, negative, ancient manager is leading in the last 20 years?

I doff my hat for Mourinho.

raumdeuter:
Before Pep joined Barcelona they were trophyless. in 12months won every trophy he contested

They won CL in 2006 & they have won it after Pep left.

Have Porto/Inter won CL since Jose left? No
Have Porto/Inter reached a final since? No
Have Porto/Inter reached a semifinal since? No

Mourinho is a miracle worker.

raumdeuter:
What is the fact in claiming ovbredo aided Barcelona when he actually aided Chelsea by giving Abidal a red

Ovrebo’s cheating was after Iniesta got the equalizer.

He’s admitted to it.

popizaino:
The two biggest franchises in football club history is underdog because Jose was employed ....this argument is lost at this point

United hadn’t won the league in 3 years before Jose was appointed. The annoying part was that United’s best position was 4th which they achieved once. Fergie never finished below 3rd in his last 20 years at Old Trafford.

United weren’t in trouble?

Madrid couldn’t go past round of 16 in the CL(a competition they had won 9 times) for 6 consecutive seasons. Pep was shitting on every club in La Liga. He had won the league twice in a row before Jose was brought in to stop the rot.

Madrid weren’t in trouble?

popizaino:
Mourinho won the UCL with clubs who had won it before at won point in their history,that not special.....he should win it Tottenham Hotspur,that would be really special .

Clubs that won them 45/50 years ago.

Are you suggesting the same players that won them back then were the same ones Jose won them with?

raumdeuter:
By chance, the referee who officiated the Inter Milan vs Barcelona match at the San Siro in the Champions League yesterday was of Portuguese origin, making many Spanish fans think that his nationality and possibly his loyalty to his country flag was one of the many reasons why he favored Portuguese coach Jose Mourinho, at the anger of the Azulgranas.

Missing cards for Maicon, Lucio, Walter Samuel, and Sneijder, as well a goal for Maicon from a controversial build-up, and suspiciously offside goal by Diego Milito, in addition to the denial of a clear penalty for Dani Alves, explicitly shows how much Barcelona were robbed; but expectedly, none of Inter’s key members accepted their “unfairness” against their visitors.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/382144-cheats-inter-giving-barcelona-perfect-reminder-of-2009-ovrebo-episode

That’s an opinion, it’s not fact. I despise when people bring opinions into a discourse that revolves in facts. Has the referee in that game admitted he made errors? No.

Inter destroyed Barca 3-1 in the first leg.

All Barca needed to do was win 2-0 at Nou Camp. Pep even got help when Motta was sent off. Barca played against 10 men for more than one hour and still couldn’t score 2 goals needed to qualify.

Have some shame.

raumdeuter:
Was there VAR during the time of Ovbredo? Didnt the same Ovbredo red card Abidal

Ovrebo saw the handballs - he just didn’t give them. Linesman failed to spot that Scholes was ONside and ruled out a legit goal.

Ovrebo has since admitted he made mistakes in that game and that we shouldn’t judge his career by one game.

handelex:
Illimitable abeg the miracle wey Mourinho dey do eh, why e no do am for the 2nd and 3rd season for United?

Abi the annionting finish?

He won De Gea his only golden glove award in England. De Gea couldn’t do it under SAF, Moyes, LVG and the Norwegian fraud.

Considering he did it with a defence unit of Valencia(33 years of age winger), Young(33 years of age winger), Smalling & Jones is absolutely a miracle.

Ole arrived, spent £150m on that defence and he had already conceded more league goals in January than Jose did throughout 17/18 season.

handelex:
Also do you remember when he wanted to cheat his way to another CL at Madrid when Nani was wrongfully sent off and the tie was turned against United in the QF only for Bayern to send him home in the semis.

Give me a break.

United were leading 1-0 when Nani was sent off. SAF(poor tactician) refused to make changes to shore up the defence. He was busy arguing with the 4th referee on the touch line.

Mourinho saw the gaping hole in our set up and immediately brought on Modric. Barely 6 minutes later, Modric scored and SAF was still arguing with his chewing gum.

What a joke!!!!!

raumdeuter:
talk about cheating

How about that Paul Scholes goal at Old trafford?

There was no VAR & even if you counted Scholes’ goal, it would have sent the game to extra time and maybe a shootout. Any team could have won a shootout.

Porto won the first leg 2-1. Scholes goal counted would have made it 2-1 at OT.

Ovrebo denied Chelsea about 4 clear penalty incidents and a Chelsea goal would have eliminated Barcelona in the tie.

handelex:
Please name the supposed 3 miracle trophies let's check something...



Thought you said Ole and Jose no dey the same level, why comparing them nau

Because you are belittling his achievements at United. I need to constantly remind you that Jose performed miracles at United.

Ole with better players, better squad, non-toxic environment, rich DNA, smiling players, happy atmosphere, etc - no title in almost 3 years.

United fans have a crazy addiction to a drug. That drug is known as delusion.

handelex:
Ok his gift of miracles only worked at Porto and Inter

If he's not a fake miracle worker he should work the miracle at Spurs as United became too strong for him

He made miracles at United.

3 trophies in one season under 9 months.

Ole can’t even win one or get into a final after almost 3 years with a superior team.

raumdeuter:
What type of Progression did Spurs make in the CL from finalist to Conference League

What kinda progression did Pochettino make in the 2nd position to 14th(when Levy sacked him)?

handelex:
All this Shalaye ontop taking a CL final team to Europa Conference. Mou should do it if it's easy but alas he can't even qualify for it.

And by the way since we are talking about flukes, that his CL win at Porto was a fluke, if it's not he should repeat it again. Even the one at Inter

Porto was a fluke? If Porto was a fluke, what about the one at Inter?

If anyone won CL via fluke, it would be Pep. He cheated his way into 2009 semifinal after Ovrebo cheated Chelsea at Stamford Bridge because he wanted Pep’s autograph for his kids.

Even the current CL campaign, the referee cheated Dortmund of an away goal when he ruled out a legit goal. Another referee gave City a dubious penalty when IFAB’s law carefully stated that a ball that hit the arm from any part of the body isn’t a foul.

popizaino:
You have just expose Mourinho as a fraud,if he only thrive as an underdog how do you expect him to perform well with big teams like man United,real Madrid?

United and Madrid were underdogs when Mourinho joined them.

He doesn’t take jobs that are easy. Pep was destroying La Liga when Florentino Perez went to prostrate for Mourinho to come and rescue his club and take them to back to glory.

Mourinho won them the league and he would have won more but Pep ran from La Liga after getting disgraced by Jose. Mourinho lost interest in the rivalry & came back to Chelsea.

popizaino:
A certain coach won UCL with Nottingham forest as an underdog and since then no one has been able to do it.....makes him the best ever .

Mourinho did it twice.

One can be a fluke. Doing it twice cements him as the best manager this century.

It’s not even debatable.

Mind you, Clough is well respected. There are plenty of statues of him in England. He’s ESPN’s 3rd greatest manager of all time.

handelex:
Ladies and gentlemen the bolded is the conclusion of the whole matter

Inter never won the CL in 45yrs, they won it under Jose and its about him, now at Tottenham, he's taking a CL finalist team to Europa Conference and it's no longer about him.

What God cannot do does not exist.

CL finalist team that he met at 14th.

The CL final was a fluke. Spurs hadn’t won an away game in the PL in almost a year - until Jose joined them.

What sort of a CL Finalist fails to win a league game away from home for more than a year?

I challenge you to look at all the CL finalists since it’s inception in the 50s, none of the finalists had failed to win an away league game in almost a year.

raumdeuter:
Bottom line failed to win at Madrid and Chelsea, his immediate succesors won

At Spurs he inherited a Spurs who just made the CL final, How are things going over there?

It’s about progression - a concept you lacked.

Mourinho met a team that cannot get past round of 16 for 6 consecutive seasons and got them into semis 3 times. It’s inevitable that they will win it as soon as they are 1 goal or one penalty shootout away from the final.

Pep met Bayern after they had just completed a TREBLE and baba couldn’t get them past semifinal in 3 attempts.

That’s regression. Bayern had already won the CL, they were in form when Pep(the supposed best manager on the planet) joined them and yet, the team deteriorated under him.

It was no wonder Bayern parted company with the fraud.