₦airaland Forum

raumdeuter:
They won it in 2002. by 2005 their stars started leaving starting with Figo
So if you are asking why they didnt win in 2002, 2003, 2004 you have to be clearer

If winning it is by the sheer number of the ballon d’Or players in their squad, there’s no reason why they couldn’t repeat it between 2003-2007, by your own logic.

So explain to the House why your logic only punishes Mourinho that had just 2 Ballon d’Or winners but won’t punish the managers that handled Madrid between 2003-7 when they had about 9 different ballon d’Or trophies in their squad?

It’s so easy to disintegrate your stupid logic.

raumdeuter:
So if a new coach took over City this season, he would have been taking over an underdog
Or a new coach takes over Juventus next season he will be taking over an underdog

If a new manager took over City this season, he would be taking over a squad that is afraid to get into a semifinal. If the new manager somehow manages it with them despite being an underdog, he could win an IFFHS award based on that alone.

hensben:
Its really sad. Only in this thread sentiment and emotion try to win against fact and logic. Smh

I have overrated many of the monikers chatting shit on this thread. This is the biggest assembly of dullards I have ever witnessed in my entire existence.

raumdeuter:
Between 2005 and 2010.
Figo left in 2005
Zidane left in 2006
Ronaldo, Beckham Carlos left in 2007

Madrid bought CR7 and Kaka 2 Balon dors in 2009 while Mourinho joined in 2010

Mourinho had 2 recent balon dor at the peak of their careers Kaka at 28yrs, CR7 at 25yrs and failed to win the CL

Why didn’t they win it in 2003-2007?

raumdeuter:
Simple question Man City has been losing to Lyon and Monaco are they underdogs?
Barcelona lost to Roma, are they underdogs?
Juventus lost to Porto, Lyon and Ajax Are they underdogs?

Jesus Christ - how old are you?

City got to the semifinals in 2016.

There was never a time they got knocked out in the round of 16 for 6 consecutive seasons. How can they be underdogs when it was Pep that was underachieving with them in Europe?

Pellegrini got to the semifinal in the same year Pep arrived. Pep spent plenty of cash and he never even got past his predecessor and you think he’s an underdog?

This is funny.

raumdeuter:
Madrid won it in 2002 with Zidane, Figo, Raúl, Guti, Makelele Roberto Carlos, etc?

If the question is why cant they be winning it every season? You will have to state it clearer

Madrid didn’t get past round of 16 from 2005 to 2010 with the same calibre of players. How come their multiple ballon d’Or winners couldn’t get them past the first knockout tie for 6 consecutive seasons?

Are you people dullards or pretending to be morons?

raumdeuter:
Kaka won Balon dor in 2007, Ronaldo won in 2008. Mourinho got to Madrid in 2010. That means he had 2 Balon dors who had won within 5yrs in his team
With Ramos Casillas, Pepe
That was an underdog team

We can also say since Man City is crashing out to Lyon, Monaco and Spurs, City is an underdog

This argument is idiotic.

How come Madrid didn’t win it in 2003 when they had Fat Ronaldo, Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Raúl, Guti, Roberto Carlos, etc?

A year later, they added Michael Owen(another ballon d’Or winner) to their team and they still couldn’t win it.

This is the worst sports thread on this forum by a country mile. The amount of worst takes in football I have seen on this thread is starting to make me think this thread is the natural habitat of all the olodos on NL.

TrebleChamp:
How does this change the fact that Mourinho is rated the greatest manger? Àbí na me rate Mourinho? Until another manager is rated, Jose is the greatest Manager.

Don’t mind that Bara guy.

They somehow thought Mourinho’s lengthier career is why he’s #1 when his 4 IFFHS awards is the key.

Majority of the other managers on the list between 2001-2020 had to outrightly win the CL to be given the award.

Mourinho won the award for winning the PL with Chelsea - a trophy Chelsea hadn’t won for 50 years. IFFHS considered the league title in that circumstance worthier than all the league titles Pep won at Bayern or City

Mourinho also won the award in 2012 after destroying Pep’s Barca in the league. IFFHS considered that feat worthier because Madrid were underdogs nobody gave a chance to win La Liga. Madrid didn’t win CL in 2012 but IFFHS still gave the award to Mourinho.

Another evidence that Mourinho takes difficult jobs while Pep takes jobs where failure is impossible. Pep has never won the award without winning the CL. All his league victories have come easy unlike Mourinho’s 04/05 or 11/12 league victories.

This debate is over.

raumdeuter:
How to be an underdog is to have 2 previous Balon dor in Kaka and Ronaldo

If you ever see hensben supporting your argument, that is a clue that you have to reevaluate your position

A washed up Kaka & a ballon d’Or winner Ronaldo were knocked out in the round of 16 in 09/10 by almighty Lyon.

I am wondering why Ronaldo’s Ballon d’Or and Kaka’s brilliance couldn’t get their team past Lyon. If that particular tie was a fluke on Lyon’s part, the previous 5 seasons before Ronaldo arrived also had Madrid crashing out in the round of 16.

If they aren’t underdogs, what are they? Champions?

IQ test should be a compulsory test in Nigeria before voters card is issued to anyone. This thread continues to show the far majority of Nigerians are clueless.

nitrogen:
Agree! Mou don try, he needs to focus on other things. Meanwhile, there is no sense in mentioning OGS and Mou in the same sentence. (I just did sha, lol). Mou has seen it all, OGS is still a rookie after 12 years of football management.

Also, we should stop saying that Ole's time at Utd is better than Mou's. Na trophy be koko, OGS has not won a spoon at Utd.

Guardiola started his career around the same time OGS did. Why is it okay to compare Pep to Mou but Ole is still a rookie?

This was the same Gary Neville narrative that Lingard is still a youth and Pogba should be guiding him - until he was told Lingard is actually older than Pogba.

Ole and Pep are mates.
Consistent failure is the reason people think Ole is a rookie.

benji93:
True. No one in his right senses would comapre Ole to Mou. Mou has an impressive Resume. Ole has done very little. But your argument that Mou schooled Sir Alex is bullshit. We could also say Ole has not lost to Mou with 11 players on each side. . There are definitely lots of other things you can mention, not that one.

It’s obvious you only started following the Premier League when Buhari/Osinbajo came to power.

SMH!

Expert17:
Having the same EPL trophies with Arsene Wenger(despite staying for 20+ years) is difficult.

Winning Europa League and UCL with FC Porto is difficult.

Winning the league with just 15 goals conceded is difficult.

Winning treble with Inter Milan is difficult.

Winning 2 EPL trophies in his first 2 years is difficult.

Winning all trophies associated with club football is difficult.

Winning the league with Real Madrid is difficult. (Considering Messi and Barcelona form, also ending Madrid 3 years without league trophy run)

Winning 3 trophies with Man utd is difficult ( until OLE wins a semi-final and a trophy )

Respect Mourinho abeg

God will shower his blessings on you for this comment.

These people will change narrative because they don’t like a particular manager. There are many managers or teams I don’t like but I will never deny them their respect.

These anti-Mourinho bots came here yesterday to lie that Tottenham were in hot form because of a flukish CL final berth they clinched because Sterling’s goal was ruled out in the last minute.

Spurs were dogshit. They didn’t win a single away game from January till Jose took over and won the first away game he played against West Ham. This was Tottenham’s form away from home in the league under Poch.

Just look at the mess Mourinho inherited.

benji93:
Let me give you some life lessons cos it seems you lack a lot of understanding about how this life works. Your when Ole/Mourinho argument is quite dumb honestly, cos no be when you start. Some start winning early, while others start late. It's reality. There's another thing. Mourinho's career as a professional footballer was close to non-existent. The last time he played-even amateur football-was in 1987, when he was 24. He began working as an assistant as far back as 1992, with Robson. He moved from one assistant manager role to another until his first stint in 2000 as the senior coach of Benfica, which was 8 years after working under several senior coaches soaking up knowledge along the way. His first real success was with Uniao de Leria as senior manager in 2001, when he led the team to 4th place. Remember that Mourinho worked directly with high profile coaches, Robson, then Van Gaal through those 8 years. . Now for Ole he retired in 2007. He honestly didn't get well-grounded before his first stint at Molde as a head coach. 4 years later he moved to Cardiff as their manager. He would be a genius to save that team from relegation. The long and short of it is that, Ole did not learn the ropes properly, in fact honestly he did not learn at all. Sadly that's what's happening these days. Most of them end up learning on the Job. Only a few of them can succeed without any proper grounding, in which case the environment provided to them may overblow their perceived abilities, as was in the case of Guardiola for example who had Messi, Xavi Iniesta and co. I mean you don't need to be a genius to coach those guys to trophies. So before you bring age into any argument you need to consider what their life was like until that age.
I have told you severally, you won't listen. Do some actual research before you post anything.

It’s obvious your IQ is lower than the room temperature in Alaska.

Who gives a shit what obstacles Ole had to pass through before joining United? Who gives a shit if Mourinho wasn’t a successful footballer?

Whenever people come up with idiotic points about Jose not being a footballer, I remember Arrigo Sacchi’s famous quote - “A jockey doesn’t have to have been a horse.”

Morons like you actually feel you have to be an okada before you can ride one. Sacchi never played football and he’s one of the best managers that ever lived.

Back to Ole.....
He’s a failure. Irrespective of when he had started, he would have still been a failure. Age is a very important factor as that actually gives Mourinho more time to expand on what he’s already achieved.

Your stupidity even gets more laughable when you actually realize Pep was managing Barca reserves in 07/08 while Ole was coaching United’s strikers around the same time before managing United reserves in 08/09.

Pep went on to become one of the best managers in the world while Ole was relegating Cardiff and managing clubs ranked 550th in the jungle of Norway. Pep and Ole had exactly the same opportunity but Ole’s contagious virus known as failure wouldn’t let him breakthrough and become great.

I can only hope his virus hasn’t affected your thinking faculty to drop standards and accept failure as the norm. My standards are sky high, even when Ferguson was winning 3 titles in a row, I wasn’t satisfied with his European campaign. Imagine how I feel now that this failure can’t even win a trophy in almost 3 years.

Maybe this is why some United fans don’t like Mourinho.

He slaughtered their cult hero many many times. If someone I hold in high regards only won 2 games out of 16, I would hate Mourinho too.

benji93:
But honestly, una no dey try for here. I do agree with one thing about @illimitable's argument though, 25 major trophies no beans. Mourinho try well well, just say time don reach make him retire. No be everybody go dominate until 70, 58 is a nice age to retire too.

Mourinho will be here till age 80.

By the time Jose clocked 41, he had won UEFA cup(Europa league equivalent) & UCL with Porto(a small fry).

By the time Ole clocked 41, he was relegating Cardiff to a lower league from the PL.

United fans don’t care though, they believe the latter is better than the former.

Bunch of knuckleheads.

benji93:
You don't get to decide who got cooked. The spectators get to make that decision. Meanwhile, I am still waiting for your stellar Waec results.

His twin brother(Raumdeuter) gave up and ran away after realizing his hands are too short to box with me.

Handelex is just struggling to preserve whatever is left of his burnt credibility.

If you clone all the anti-Mourinho bots on this thread into one person and pit them against me, I would still nick a flawless victory.

All of them get their opinions from Neville & Carragher. They are too dense to make their own independent opinion.

3 trophies - Mourinho left a mess
0 trophies - Ole is making progress.

Bunch of morons!

handelex:
Lmaoooo, you can cry all you want your Jose is now getting cooked by the likes of Solskjaer and Co.
Now run along boy.

Ole doesn’t have 25 major trophies though.....

You can manufacture 25 major medals for him in your village.

Ole should continue cooking you into oblivion. The end shall justify the means real soon.

handelex:
Go and sleep.

The moral of the story is - you got cooked.

handelex:
Lol I couldn't care less if Bilbao battered United, that was on Fergie, but it doesn't in any way change the fact that United had the easiest route to an Europa league win under Mourinho playing the likes of Rostov and St Etienne etc Get that into your thick skull.

Oga stop beating about the bush. Seems the only straw you're clutching at now is mentioning Ole. Thought you said they're not in the same league so why pitting them against each other. Pit Jose against his mates in Guardiola. Meanwhile Ole is comfortably in 2nd why he's in Europa Conference spots.

If you attend a church, tell your Pastor to deliver you from victimhood and fanboyism since you're adamant that Europa league and Carabao cup is an over achievement for Jose and a club like United.

You really need to give your head that wobble.

Getting sacked isn't always about performance and I agree but Jose has been sacked in his last 3 jobs because of performance.
IFFHS can give him that, he's coached more years than all the coaches there but right now the world's best coach in struggling to qualify for Europa Conference League. Now deal with that.

Look at him emotional.

raumdeuter:
2 yrs out of 20 makes it 18
Pep started in 2008 and took a year off making 11yrs

Mourinhos Chelsea Inter Madrid United were juggernauts

Actually before Pep and Mourinho joined, City and Man utd finished level on points in the league

Mourinho’s Chelsea weren’t juggernauts - they hadn’t won a league title in 50 years.

Mourinho’s Inter weren’t juggernauts, they hadn’t won the champions league in 45 years.

Mourinho’s Madrid had become slaves to Pep’s Barca, they hadn’t reached UCL Q/final in 6 seasons, hadn’t won copa del Rey in 18 years.

Mourinho’s United were the worst he joined - they had won no league in 3 years by finishing 7th, 5th & 4th. They won a miserable FA cup final by beating Palace. This was a club that never finished lower than 3rd under SAF.

But you want to compare these clubs to a club that recently won the TREBLE, the Barca that won CL as recent as the previous 3 years or the City that won the PL after SAF had retired and never finished below 4th since their takeover.

City & United finished level on points in 15/16 because City’s interests were in the CL - they reached the semis and they had to rest players for more important games than top 4 that was already secure.

You want to know the last time United reached the semis? 10 years ago.

Juggernaut my ass!

raumdeuter:
How many years gap did Mourinho have between 2000 and 2020

Do the Math I wait

There’s no other math to be done. I have given you the ratio as things stand.

Until Pep gets above Mourinho, you should zip it.

Mourinho had gap years. He left Chelsea in Sep 2007, joined Inter in June 2008.

He left United in Dec 2018, joined Spurs in November 2019. That’s like 2 years.

Besides that, he’s managed average clubs like Porto, Inter, United & Chelsea in that period while Pep has only managed juggernaut clubs like City, Bayern and Barca.

Pep only joins the highest spender in the league. If you can’t guarantee him that you will outspend rivals, Pep isn’t interested.

McTominay:
Oga city are not miles ahead because they have 3 to 4 quality midfielders, what city have that every other clubs doesn't have are quality replacements; that's all.
in my United team, the only out and out DM is Matic. Both Fred and mctominay are CMs and have to be played side by side. There is also an imbalance in right side of United's team. The goalie is another big reason, for the past 2 seasons Sergio Romero should have been our no.1 same way Henderson has benched de Gea; but the higher found the call to tough to make.

When Mourinho asked for this depth in the squad, United fans told him he moans too much that he should coach what he’s got.

City were already miles ahead of United when Pep/Jose arrived in the summer of 2016 and yet the Glazers refused to back Mourinho by signing him 10 players while Pep signed 25 players before Jose was sacked.

One cannot say United don’t deserve their misery. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

BARAJ92:
What are you even saying. As if, it is easy to win the champions league every season, Mention any manager apart from Zidane that have win the champions league in consecutive years. Same Mourinho that has always been relieved of his duties, mention one club that has sacked Guardiola in between the season.
What happen to Mourinho that he won only a league title with Madrid with world class players that later won the champions league 4 times after he was sack.

Nobody said Pep should have won the CL every season at Bayern. After inheriting a side that just won the TREBLE, you would expect at least one final under Pep. Pep wasn’t hired to win Bundesliga - he was brought in to win the CL.
Therefore, he failed his primary objective.

Madrid only signed world class players after Jose left. He had already won them the league, won copa del rey(after 18 years) and got them to UEFA semis(after 6 years of getting eliminated in round of 16).

Mourinho already laid a foundation and Florentino roofed the house after Jose left. I know most of you don’t remember this but it was after Jose left that they bought
Bale(£86m), Isco(£30m), Casemiro(£6m) James(£67m), Kroos(£25m), Keylor Navas(£10m), etc.

handelex:
A season before Mourinho was employed to Chelsea, they have finished second and in the previous season, they have been eliminated in the semi final, why didn't Mourinho win a champions league trophy with them or a premier League title after his return to premier League.

Mourinho won the league with Chelsea immediately he was hired. He also got into semifinal and was only eliminated by a ghost goal Liverpool scored - otherwise he would have faced Milan in the final. It was Mourinho’s Chelsea that eliminated Barcelona that season.

handelex:
Currently, Mourinho have lost his winning touch, Most top clubs would go for Guardiola before considering Mourinho.

He hasn’t lost his winning touch. He’s won a trophy in every club he’s been and I have no doubt he will win at Spurs too - it will just take longer because Spurs FC are bottlers.

It seems he’s lost his touch because he takes difficult jobs, he takes jobs from clubs that are in trouble. Pep takes ready made jobs. SAF approached Pep in America and the rumor was that the Glazers couldn’t match Pep’s ambitions. He dumped SAF for Bayern Munich(the softest job in the world).

handelex:
Why then do we have terms like "group of death" if there's no easier route. When the strongest team we faced in that tourney was a young Ajax team, that should tell you alot.

SAF wasn’t beaten in a group of death. He faced Bilbao in the knockout and he was destroyed home and away by Bielsa.

United were better and bigger than Bilbao in 2012 and still SAF lost - so even if any of Ole or SAF had managed United in 16/17 season, they could still have lost to any of the teams United faced that year.

SAF was eliminated in a CL group that contained Benfica, Basel and Otelul Galati - that wasn’t a group of death. It was the easiest group that season so there’s no proof SAF or Ole wouldn’t have been eliminated in 2017.

handelex:
So that United overpaid for Maguire and AWB now gives credence to your misguided point that Mourinho overachieved? Are you even reading what you're typing right now
You just lost it here.

Whose fault was it that United overpaid? Since Mourinho left, United have made significant changes to the team and yet they seem further from the trophy than any time under Mourinho.

United played in 3 finals under Mourinho before the first two years. It’s been more than 2 years under Ole and his team that has been pumped with enough money but still, the Norwegian fraud can’t get into a final.

Give your head a wobble, handelex.

handelex:
What of when he was sacked during his 2nd stint at Chelsea or United?
Normally when differences are unreconcilable, there is an inevitable parting of ways either through sacking or mutual agreement, however Jose has been sacked in his last 3 jobs because of how shit he became on the job and wanting to burn everything to the ground.

I am just letting you know getting sacked isn’t always about performance. You watch enough football to know this. Villas-Boas was recently sacked because he didn’t want a certain player that the board of his club wanted - that had nothing to do with the results on the pitch.

IFFHS has proven my point that Jose is the best manager this century. Nothing you say matters here. You will just continue to dance around the bush after getting buried with facts and logic.

I am tired of this argument now. When you have something fresh to say concerning Mourinho, holla at me. IFFHS claimed Mourinho is the best amongst his peers in the last 20 years, I checked my workings and it agrees with the organization.

If you think Pep or Ole or Allardyce are better, take your matter to IFFHS.

handelex:
Don't push it abeg
United had the easiest route for that Europa League win in decades, we even nearly blew it in the semis Celta Vigo.

There’s nothing like easiest route. You can only beat what is put in front of you. Did Mourinho decide who United will play?

Why couldn’t SAF beat Bilbao in 2012? You mean Bilbao was bigger than SAF’s United?

handelex:
Mourinho overachieved at United? No wonder he has brainwashed your likes that finishing 2nd with us was the best he had achieved in his career.

If he didn’t overachieve by winning 3 trophies and finishing 2nd(81 points), why did Ole spend £150m on the defence? He should have thought he could win with what Jose won with, don’t you think?

handelex:
You're sacked when you're no longer performing or turned to shit at your job. Sacking means nothing to you yet you're calling for Ole's head at the moment.

That’s not even remotely true.

Jose was sacked in 2007 with only 2 points behind the leaders(Arsenal) in September. Are you suggesting Mourinho was no longer performing with just being 2 points behind the leaders in September?

If we use the same yardstick for every manager, do you know how many times Ole, Pep or Klopp would have been sacked in the last 3 years?

TrebleChamp:
I want him to win it so players like Kane can finally have a medal....

Even if he does that, they would say Kane is too big for carling cup medal. They never give Jose any credits.

Mourinho has turned Kane into a monster - top goal scorer, top assist charts. Does he get any credits for making Kane a complete forward? No.

All we ever hear is his toxicity, dinosaur tactics & negative football.

Meanwhile, Shaw has only 5 assists(28th in the league) and every time you put the TV on, the subject is always how Ole has turned Shaw into the best left back in the league.

handelex:
He should be grateful LVG gave him an easy tournament to win, a tournament he called rubbish.

Only Jose could have won that tournament out of all the managers that have managed United. Ole, SAF, LVG all got into Europa & they got battered. I still remember Bielsa’s Bilbao playing Ferguson’s boys off the park.

handelex:
If he left solid foundations at all the clubs he's been to, why are you bragging about those clubs not being to replicate what he achieved when he was there ala Porto and Inter, even United?

If he also overachieved, they will never be able to replicate what he achieved. Mourinho winning the CL with those teams is like Ranieri winning PL with Leicester.

handelex:
Even the Chelsea you're talking about sacked his ass last time around before he destroys the legacy he had there.

So much for foundations.

Ancelotti has been sacked 11 times, he’s won more CL titles than Mourinho and Pep.

Only amateurs use sacking as a crutch in an argument. What has sacking gotta do with anything?

popizaino:
No,the thing with UCL is that ,it is likely to favour teams that had previously won it before, than newcomer. That is why even if Atletico Madrid tries they will still get beaten by Madrid in finals. Can't you see there are no new winners in UCL all this while save for Chelsea.

The same way Jose Mourinho led Porto and inter Milan to UCL finals is the same way Diego simeone has led Atletico Madrid to UCL finals but history came to pass.
You think its beans that Atletico Madrid were in possession in the 92th minute but real Madrid found a way to take the to extra time ?
Thierry Henry missing chances against Barcelona is all part of UCL jinx.
Terry a sport kick way from winning in 2008 was part of UCL jinx


UCL jinx is real .

Mourinho did nothing special winning ucl with clubs who have previously won it .

I like your line of thinking because you actually identify there’s a jinx and a mentality to beat. However, this jinx still exists for clubs that stopped winning after a certain number of years(I would say after 5 seasons).

Look at how long Liverpool suffered to win the PL. They hadn’t won it in 30 years. They came close in 2014 and Gerrard slipped. They came close in 2009 and Rafa Benitez meltdown happened live on TV attacking SAF.

This is Liverpool that had won the league 18 times and then failed to win it for a 30 year period. The jinx is real. Look at Arsenal since invincibles? Look at United - already charting the same territory.

It would take a serial winning manager to deliver another league title at United. I just hope and pray it won’t take 30-40 years like Liverpool.

handelex:
Rubbish.

A good manager leaves a solid foundation for his successor to build on and continue the winning culture not burning everything down and leaving a toxic environment behind.

That Mourinho won something in his first season at United was the work of Van Gaal which he destroyed and we are here today.

You mean the same LVG that got into CL, got demoted into Europa and still got battered by bottom tier teams?

Mourinho left a solid foundation in every club he’s been. Chelsea wouldn’t be a big club today without Mourinho - even long after he left, his 4-3-3 formation was kept for many many years.

That Mourinho won something was the reason he was able to use his charisma to charm players like Zlatan & Pogba to the club while in a Europa spot.

handelex:
What's the meaning of this? Like izzit meant to be a bragging right or what?

It is.....

The fact that other managers have done it immediately rubbishes Pep’s achievement and indicates he’s not special.

How long ago the clubs had won it before the manager’s arrival also indicates the mentality the manager had to beat to win it.

raumdeuter:
226 points over 20yrs vs 180 points over 12yrs

Do the Math while I wait

Mourinho had gap years in those 20 years and he managed plenty of underdog clubs while Pep only goes where failure is impossible.

Mourinho has 4 IFFHS awards in 20 years
Guardiola has 2 IFFHS awards in 12 years

Do the math while I wait.

raumdeuter:
Madrid have won it since Jose left,
Chelsea have won it since Jose left

Every club Pep has managed has won the CL since Pep left them.

Can you say the same about Mourinho? No