₦airaland Forum

BabaGnoni: With hindsight, "Elijah wanted to die" should never have gone into that post,
nevertheless the post is still watertight with "Elijah wanted to die" removed
and takes nothing away from the post nor diminishes the Elijah defence message therein.

"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture;
and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained,
so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
- William Symington
Scottish engineer, inventor and the builder of the first practical steamboat

You made a mistake simples. Correct it and move on, you like stories.

dorox: Going by your statement, it means that a poor christian is a sinner and only the rich christians are truly serving God the right way.

No, not at all. The two conditions are two kettles of fish as it were. The salvation of one's soul from sin and God's wrath is different from living in prosperity or comfortable abundant life. One can be poorer than beggar Lazarus and be saved and vice versa. However, it is God's will that we prosper and be in good health, whatever that means. God's will is not all about heaven, folks limit obedience and doing God's will to the extreme of going to heaven or hell. God wills the kingdom and days of heaven on earth.

seagulsntrawler: Iam not a proponent of that perversed brand of christianity.

What brand of Christianity? And what makes it perverted?

seagulsntrawler: I said being rich is an undeserved favor from Him for a purpose. Its not the ultimate factor for your salvation.

I don't remember anyone saying being rich is an ultimate factor for salvation or even linking it with salvation. One can be healed without salvation, same way one can be rich or excel without salvation. They are different but are all God's wish for mankind.

Zeus777: am sorry but I didn't see any sense in this ur post

Meditate on it till it clicks.

rest in the arms of Jesus sir.

seagulsntrawler: All the remarks i made were not insinuations. I don't believe what guarantees salvation is how rich you are on earth.

Your logic or belief is that if God doesn't want anyone to be poor then why are some poor. Use the same lens to see that some are sinners and not glorifying God even though God wants otherwise. If God's will and want is automatic, Christ would not tell anyone to pray "Thy will be done in earth".

seagulsntrawler: The post you made and endorsed in the first page gave you away as a teacher/adherent of prosperity preaching that OP refered to.

What? What post?

seagulsntrawler: The OP made a challenge to preachers of properity teachings in christendom. You should go through his first post. Iam neither a preacher of prosperity nor have i enriched myself with money from seeds and tithes. So when he said 'good news' was he refering to the sharing of money to the poor. And if good news is making the poor rich, kindly back it up with scriptural proof. If he died for us to be rich physically and not spiritually, why was Paul not rich and even thanked patrons for donations made towards the cause. He need only pull out gold coins from his pocket if he had the money. Thanks

Your CONSTANT refusal to say if you've sold your possession and given the proceeds to the poor says it all. That is what the OP requires from you as a christian. Provision of wealth for the poor is good news, provision of health is equally good news just as salvation from divine wrath and sin is good news.
2 Corinthians 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. 2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

No matter how much these passages are 'spiritualized', they do leave the idea that Jesus wants His own to prosper, and financially too.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh, nanny slapping the daylights out of baba. This is suffereth violence keee. What happen, eeyah i mistakenly unfollowed this thread, i have catching up to do later. nanny easy oh, cool temper, let's leave the slapping for the young pikins, na Baba be this oh.

Psalms 91:2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

It's time to activate the power of words. i will say of the Lord. When you love someone, it's good to say it. God wants us to declare our trust, love and faith in Him.

On Luke 12 before you start yapping
Luke 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?

Peter knew that passage a parable. Can't type much, i'm using a mobile phone.

Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

Leaven of Pharisees is not physical bread. Verse 2is with context.

Luke 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
Take no thought is to not be anxious or afraid. It's not saying not to think before talking.

Luke 12:14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
Of course, Jesus is the Judge of the whole earth, but in context, He's not in charge of dividing this man's property.

Luke 12:29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
Not saying not to work, get a job or think, though the verse can equally be misconstrued to mean that in isolation. One has to be careful interpreting parables and all scriptures really.

musKeeto: You really do enjoy making stuff up as we go along. Jesus' conservation with Nicodemus took place a long time before anyone was referred to as a Christian. This una personal Holy Spirit translation na wa o.. King James would have sent most of you Holy Spritilized miscreants to the gallows.


So all Christians are born-again?


Please, who decides which is a command for all and which isn't? I can produce lots of verses that corroborate the verse in the OP.

Luke 12




Na wetin Jesus say I make i tell you...

Nothing made up. You asked if it is important for christians to be born again. It's like asking if it's important for all boys to be male.
All scriptures is given by God's inspiration and profitable. The question should be what profit, meaning and application of verse or passage.
Mostly, you know if an incidence is a command usually by context and corroboration, also by biblical practice and by God's spirit. The Luke 12 passage is a good one. It is a parable. Parables have deeper meaning than the seemingly obvious. In short words, it means not to be attached to earthly possession and ready to do without them. Not fixed on acquiring them or keeping them.

seagulsntrawler: If he did, we should all be rich, going by your logic, and many of the early apostles were not known for being rich. Perhaps, they may have violated some of the so called kingdom principles being touted by preachers of prosperity gospel.

It is Jesus that took the sins of the world on His shoulder, not me. Kindly discuss with me from what i say not from what you think i'll say, or what all opposing views might have said.
going by your logic, we should all be saved and glorifying God since that's what God wants and created us for.

seagulsntrawler: Whatever suits you as regards the verse.
You are advocating a brand of christianity that runs contrary to the mission of our saviour on earth.

What? What brand of Christianity is that? This one na heavy accusation oh, kindly explain what you mean with proofs.

seagulsntrawler: From the postings I made earlier on, the good news was not to make the poor rich but to save mankind. It is not meant to be a money making venture for the leader and those being led. The gospel of prosperity, for believers has made it look like a `kalo kalo' business. It is an attempt to cheapens what Christ died for on the cross. The question of selling my goods and giving to the poor doesn't arise here cos its deviating from the topic. Mind you the good news should not be seen from the prism of sharing money. We are meant to take care of the poor at all time as christians and not to make merchandise of them.

You're apparently the one limiting riches to money, not me. Jesus SPECIFICALLY says He has good news FOR the poor, not just for the sinner or unsaved. Another verse says clearly that He Jesus became poor that we may be rich. You yourself stated earlier that being rich is a favour from God. i'm not here to discuss or support the abuse of the gospel, it would however be incomplete to forget or ignore the fact that there is good news for the poor.
Selling your goods and giving it to the poor is exactly what the thread is about. kindly read the OP again. Have you sold your goods and given the proceeds to the poor?

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

DrummaBoy: Nice one OP.

But just wait long enough here and you would find modern day Nigerian Jews who will tell you:

"God did not abolish all the laws... he cancelled some and left a few others... especially that one in Malachi 3..."

"Grace came to help us fulfill the laws of Moses"

"Christ didn't come to abolish Moses Laws..." forgetting he fulfilled them.

The Jesusislord85, Alwaystrue, Image123, Gombs, Joagbaje, etc, of nairaland. I hope they find their monickers in the mentions and come here and defend their doctrines. If there is anything to defend sef...

Justification by faith, you have issues drumb.

DrummaBoy: Did you read the document Nora provided at all?

Can you really say with a clear conscience that Jesus, Peter and Paul operated healing schools or anything close to them?

Shall the healing Jesus and his apostles carried out not be the natural outworking of God's power confirming a message; rather than a predetermined exercise?

Please clear answers to the above.

No i don't need to read Nora's document, i've read similar and worse. Better still, i've read Dr Lake himself sometimes ago. Every minister including Jesus has some untrue story printed about them and i don't have to read each document to know the truth.

Like i said already, the bible records Jesus and Peter healing people who were gathered at a place for that purpose. The pool at Bethesda had sick people gathered and waiting in anticipation to be healed by God. Jesus said that where believers are gathered together IN HIS NAME, He will be there.
Believers today can heal the sick using natural outworking of God's power confirming a message(whatever that means). It matters not whether it is done in a school, room, church, street, university or whatever. If thou can believe, all things are possible to him that believes.

Gnoni, with all that story and eisegesis, do note that Elijah wanted to die two chapters after 1kings 17 not before.

mazaje: There are so many Gods. . .

The living One would acknowledge.

Psalms 95:3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

mbaemeka: 1. Please show us where God said he reserves the right to heal a man and juxtapose it with him reserving the right so save anyone. What I mean by this is- If I ask God to come and live in me (salvation) can he say to me "I am sovereign, I will let you be saved if I want to"? Now compare it with receiving healings because the scriptures that tell us about his salvation also tell us about our healings.

I am waiting.

2. Can we just achieve the results of the Heroes of faith before we can also share in their 'perceived' failures? Paul told the church in Philippi to focus on the aspects that are of good report; true; praiseworthy; pure etc. So it is only wise that I celebrate those aspects.

Where are your signs? GOD confirmed the words that the disciples preached with signs and wonders.

3. I have not seen any where that I suggested that the healings were to be wrought by any other name save Jesus' and I have testimonies to back my points.

Anyone who cursorily reads my post and is of God's spirit can tell that I have tasted of the Power from on High so I can tell you. If anything at least my convictions in my posts are evident.

what is rather strange is how the minority that dispute all aspects of acting on the word will now claim they act on the same word. If you have seen a miracle wrought by your hands it will be difficult to criticise another person's. Iron sharpens Iron.

4. Elijah was in no way needy! He was being fed bread and meat by God almighty by Ravens (during a famine). God decided to bless a cheerful-prompt-to-do-it giver whose heart was in her giving so he sent the MOG to go to her.

Elijah asked her for 'seed faith'. He said give the last meal that you have and I assure you you will not lack. The widow responded and was blessed. Elijah didn't steal from her. . .he was sent there to bless her. That's what Jesus taught us! 2 Chronicles 20: 20 says if we believe God's prophets we will PROSPER.

Oyedepo was big before you and will always be big. When you stopped sowing into the work of his ministry he didn't call you over the Phone. He doesn't need you to prosper him it is you who needs him.

Paul told us his church that they were PART-TAKERS of his grace.

5. Jesus passed through that beautiful gate on occasions but he didn't heal the man (obviously the man didn't believe in Jesus and he didn't ask Jesus for help). Now the same man asks Peter and John for help and instead of giving him money. . They healed him.

That's what a healing school is about: People go there expressing faith in God's ability to heal and then God responds by giving it to them. The 'school' in the appellation only formalizes it.

Secondly, please spare us the talk about false prophets and false miracles. We are aware of such. You can show us the real one's yourself so that we can believe you.

It is a lie from the pit of hell that anyone will wrought a miracle in Jesus' name and be evil. Satan can not hear that name without bowing. Demons flee when the name is mentioned.

I personally believe it is easier to perform a miracle in Jesus name than it is to fake one. And I see no reason why anyone will create a school to fake miracles when they don't charge you; don't ask you for your help; feed you themselves; give you shelter; and use the name of Jesus.

Try another lie we are not buying this one. Or better still refer us to your own miracles. Let me see you ask a man on a wheel chair to get up from it and walk in the name of Jesus.

6. If I live and die for Christ my money should live and die for him. My money should go to his work, my money should be channeled to his work. It is an open and shutcase. We don't need to quibble over words.

The irony of it all is that the people who will not let a dime go God's work will in the same breath talk about how they support the help of the poor. The brethren of Judas'.

Of course, NL is faceless so I am left to judge you and your ilk by your words. On that authority I can put it to you that if I was to compare what I give out to the sum total of you and your ilk you lot will not measure up.

I don't see how the 5K you didn't give towards LFCs church project affected the completion of it or Oyedepos networth. You exaggerate your importance alot that is what I can gather.

7. MONEY moves the gospel in this day. Pristine door-to-door evangelism is effective but it's far-reaching capabilities isn't. The time is short and the lord is soon to come. This message has to get to every nuke and cranny of the world before the Master returns. Jesus said the harvest is plenteous but the labourers are few and I don't expect Dangote to use his money to propagate the gospel so I have to do it myself.

If this sort of conviction is above your pay grade it is understandable. It is not above mine. God in response to his word keeps making all grace abound toward me so I am always having enough to give at every opportunity. I have the mind of christ who said his kingdom is spread abroad through the prosperity of his citizens. I don't ask for prosperity it is already mine. And I am not contented with just me, myself and I (like you non-greedy christians are)

I would rather desire to have more so I can help more than to be satisfied with the mediocrity that you and your ilk have accepted.

Jesus said where a man's treasure is that is where his heart will be.

8. You want to help Paul explain himself and Paul said that is a lie. Paul didn't know who Ananias was he thought he was just another man and so he called him a whitewashed wall. Someone said to Paul "you revile the High Priest" and Paul apologised saying "We are not to speak evil of Dignitaries". Paul is christian and Ananias a Jew yet Paul did not call him a charlatan.

That same Paul in almost all his writings admonished his members to imitate him in that regard. David after having learnt about Sauls death said to his soldiers " tell it not in Garth" in other words, don't say it amongst the heathen.

These men are wiser than your entire clan. You should do well to learn a thing or two from them.

Oyedepo was big before you and will always be big. When you stopped sowing into the work of his ministry he didn't call you over the Phone. He doesn't need you to prosper him it is you who needs him.

choi@ this and the last paragraph.

mazaje: which god will they thank?. . For Fashola Allah is the god he will thank and not you dead jew man/god that died over 200 years ago according to some stories written about him much later. . .

Thank God.

seagulsntrawler: My point is God never created everone to be rich. Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Two things have i required of thee,deny me them not before i die: remove far from vanity and lies:give me neither poverty nor riches;feed me with food convenient for me: Lest i be full, and deny thee, and say, who is the LORD? or lest i be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain. Prov 30:5-9. If all christians were to become extremely wealthy as the prosperity teachers would have us belive,the question is how economically viable and sustainable is it?

Hmmmm, God never created everyone to be rich according to your logic.Who talked about being extremely wealthy?

seagulsntrawler: The verses are signs that his gospel does not fit what you've been advocating all along. Its all about humility and does not potray greed and avarice. And mind you its never been `about the benjamins'.

Isaiah 53:1, 2 doesn't refer to Jesus' purpose imho. What am i advocating again?

seagulsntrawler: Let's not argue about events and incidents in the bible. Kindly give us instances in the bible where christ made a poor person rich. He never collected 'monetary tithes.' from his followers and never asked them to sow seeds. He even fed the flock after teaching them. Whoever does that in today's church?

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

He came to declare good news to the poor. Have you sold your goods and given the proceeds to the poor?

nora544: Yeas he is the one who start this when you have time read this about him it is from an University and shows the right face of this liar.

http://www.ascleiden.nl/sites/default/files/devil_who_heals_published_version.pdf

one of this WOF pastors write a book about him Copeland, Kenneth

Dr Lake didn't start healing school friend. BTW, stop reading and believing baseless unfounded accusations of scoffers. The apostles themselves were labeled as thieves, Jesus Himself labeled a man possessed with devils.
The concept of an healing school or room or whatever is simply about gathering people in anticipation of miracle, healing and answers to prayer. They are then inspired in varying ways like perhaps listening to the Word of God, or praying/tarrying, or hearing and seeing testimonies, praising etc. Nothing wrong with these as Christ promised to be where people are gathered in His name. An healing school qualifies. John 5 records of a pool at bathesda where sick people gathered in anticipation of healing, Jesus wuz ere. Jesus Himself gathered people who had need of healing at different occasions. Peter's shadow passed over people who were in beds and couches all anticipating healing. Healing rooms, streets, school, university didn't start yesterday. It is not something some mysterious WOF conjured up.
Of course, it is wrong for anyone to lie or pretend healing whether in a church service, a crusade, a school, room, evangelistic outreach or anywhere. Nothing wrong or unbiblical about people waiting to be healed. Many things wrong with deceiving and being deceived, this ain't limited to any sect or faction. You for instance have being largely deceived about many "men of God".

mazaje: If all the mythology and fiction you are typing is true, ebola would since have been defeated. . .The thing is after the Lagos state government and the FG succeed in their war against ebola, deluded people like you will come and be dishing out more mythical passages about how some jew that died 2000 years ago defeated ebola. . .if the government refuses to take any step and share your delusion that a jew that died 200 years ago has already defeated ebola do you think that Nigeria would not have been suffering from an ebola epidemic by now?. . .You are lost in delusion my friend. . .

sit there and observe. Even the research people would above all thank God for giving them the needed wisdom and breakthrough. Open your eyes and bask in His wonder.

Psalms 85:12 Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.
Rest on the promise in God's word.

Tallesty1: There is no telling if they are actually spirit filled. You know some churches attach much importance to things that really don't matter much so it is left for you as Christian to invite the holy spirit into your live so that it will tell you what is right and what is wrong.

Knowledge is different from being spirit filled. Peter was spirit filled for years yet found it hard to get it into his head that Jesus died for gentiles too. Doctrinal knowledge involves grace and growing in knowledge, it's not necessarily a case for being false or not spiritual minded or even going to heaven or hell. So many opine that if A doesn't agree with my doctrinal understanding he's going to hell, i'm going to heaven. That's laughable in heavenly parlance.

plaetton: Just an incident involving Jesus, the supposed son of god, whose life and teachings are the basis for your religion?

Sir, are you saying that we shouldn't mind Jesus?

OMG! What has christianity descended into?

If we can't listen to Jesus, then to whom should christians listen to?

So when it suits you , you quote the authority of Jesus, but when it doesn't suit you, you dismiss him derisively as just an incidence.

One good thing I sort of admire about you sir, is that you are not at all pretentious about your shallowness and greed.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

you can't pick every incidence in the bible and turn them to commandments, that is simply not how it works. Jesus told someone to go and wash at the pool of siloam don't mean all following Jesus must go to siloam. He sent some disciples to prepare Passover, told some fellows to take water to the governor of a feast. What you should be asking is how you can have Jesus in your heart and life.

musKeeto: Do you think it's important for Christians to be bornagain? Afterall, that was only a matter of 'incidence' as Jesus was conversing with Nicodemus.

Christians are already born again duh. Those are synonyms. Today, you cannot be a christian without being born again or vice versa. It is important for every man(human) to be born again as Jesus said that except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This is not just an incidence, other scriptures corroborate it. i also said that "an incidence is not NECESSARILY a command for all". Don't disappoint the investment made on you na.