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The disciples being Jews would know that part of the law quite well. What they wouldn't know was that they were by virtue of being Jesus's ministers entitled to the tithe. This is the reason Jesus instructed them to receive their sustenance from the people that they served.

Every pastor who collects tithes is nothing but “a thief and a robber.”

As far as many pastors are concerned, the most important scripture of all is not to be found in the word of Jesus. Neither is it even in the New Testament. That scripture says: “‘Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and try me now in this,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it.’” (Malachi 3:10).

This scripture is drummed repeatedly into Christians on Sundays. However, the only time Jesus mentioned tithing in scripture, he pointed out that it was not a weighty matter of the law. (Matthew 23:23). Hebrews says people only receive tithes “according to the law.” (Hebrews 7:5). It then insists tithing (and everything else under the law) has been annulled: “The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless.” (Hebrews 7:18-19). Nevertheless, mercenary pastors continue to insist on the payment of tithes.

Latter-day Pharisees

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for keeping part instead of the whole law. (Matthew 23:23). That is what tithe-collecting pastors do today. If we insist our congregants must pay tithes, we must also insist that they keep the rest of the law. James says: “Whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.” (James 2:10). Therefore, if we insist on tithing, we should also refrain from eating pork. We should stone adulterers, execute homosexuals, kill Sabbath violators and restore blood-sacrifices.

Tithe-collecting pastors counter this by maintaining the payment of tithes pre-dated the law. Here Abraham is cited as the cardinal example of someone who paid tithes before the promulgation of the Law of Moses, as did Jacob, his grandson. However, such arguments are disingenuous.

Before the law, tithing was at best an example but not a commandment. Moreover, pastors fail to mention that Abraham only tithed once in his lifetime

When he did, he did not even tithe his own money: he tithed the spoils of war. He gave ten percent of the plunder he took when he rescued Lot to Melchisedec, king of Salem. But then he did not even keep the rest but returned it (all ninety percent) to the king of Sodom.

For his part, Jacob also tithed only once. He did this in a “let’s make a deal” arrangement he offered to God: “Jacob made a vow, saying, ‘If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will surely give a tenth to you.’” (Genesis 28:20-22). This kind of deal about accepting God only under certain self-serving conditions should certainly not be a term of reference for any serious believer.

Lies upon lies

The first lie pastors tell Christians is what some have referred to as “the eleventh commandment:” “Thou shalt pay thy tithes to thy local church.” But the bible says no such thing. The storehouse of Malachi was not a church. It was a place where food was kept.

Pastors hide from church-members the fact that money was not acceptable as tithe. The tithe was a tenth of the seed and fruit of the land and of the animals which ate of the land. (Leviticus 27:30-32). That is why God says: “Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be FOOD in my house.” (Malachi 3:10). He does not say “that there may be MONEY in my house.” The food was used to feed the Levites, the poor, widows, orphans and strangers.

Pastors also conveniently fail to teach the biblical tithe. The principles of tithing were not laid down by Malachi. They were laid down by Moses. The study of Moses’ guidelines quickly reveals that the biblical tithe has no application whatsoever to Christians and is mischievously violated by tithe-collecting pastors today.

According to the Law of Moses, the tithe was divided into three allocations. The first year, it was given to the Levite. The second year, it was given to widows, orphans and the poor. The third year, it was eaten in the company of the faithful before the Lord as thanksgiving for his faithfulness. (Deuteronomy 14:22-28). In the seventh year, there was no planting and no reaping and therefore no tithing.

So the next time your pastor asks you to pay tithe, ask him about the seventh-year reprieve. Also ask him if you can give your tithe to the orphanage, or bring it as food items to be eaten in church. Believe me; he will not agree with you because it is your money he is after.

Inapplicability of tithes

Tithing was only applicable to Jews and to the land of Israel. When large populations of Jews lived in Babylon, Ammon, Moab, Egypt, and Syria, these lands became tithe-able lands. However, tithes were not acceptable from strictly Gentile lands. So you need to ask your pastor how come he is collecting tithes in Nigeria.Servants or slaves who worked on the land did not tithe because the land did not belong to them. Since only agricultural and animal resources were included, a fisherman gave no tithe of his fisheries. Neither did a miner or a carpenter pay tithes, nor anyone from the various professional occupations. So if you are not a farmer or a keeper of livestock, tell your 419 pastor tithing is biblically inapplicable to you.

Moreover, the only people authorised to receive tithes were the Levites. (Hebrews 7:5). So if your Pastor is a “tithe-collector,” ask him if he happens to be a Jew. Remind him that, even though a Jew, Jesus could not receive the tithe because he was not from the tribe of Levi but from that of Judah.

The trick, of course, is for pastors today to claim we are “Levites.” If your pastor is one such dissembler, ask him if he lives as a Levite. Remind him that Levites had no land and did not have private property. Ask him also how he knows he is from the tribe of Levi, which happens to be one of the lost tribes of Israel. Point out to him that even Jewish rabbis don’t claim to be Levites today because all Jewish genealogical records were lost with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, ensuring that it is no longer possible to ascertain the true identity of Levites.

Therefore, if Jews no longer tithe because the Levites are a lost tribe, how can Christian pastors collect tithes when we are not even Jewish, how much more Levites? If Jewish rabbis, whose terms of reference remain the Old Testament no longer collect tithes, then pastors who insist Christians are under a New Testament have no business doing so.

The conclusion then is inescapable. Every pastor who collects tithes is nothing but “a thief and a robber.” (John 10:1).

I don't understand why nobody is dealing squarely with Image123 on his mission to basterdize scriptures of Hebrews 7:8 and 13 just because he wants to justify tithe? Is there no differences between he, 'who is said\witnessed to be living because he had no beginning of days (birth record) or end of life (death record)' AND he, 'who is living by the POWER OF AN ENDLESS LIFE' Is there no differences?

My brother I have been debating Image123 on this issue for over six years an have come to the conclusion that he is a deliberately fraudulent character who even though he knows the truth would deny it cause it goes against his greedy interest and love for fleecing the flock.

It's really a waste of time and band with to be debating rodents like him.

Bro, I try to state things as I understand them. If others think differently, that is their prerogative.

Part B is clearly Melchisedec, because the passage up to and including this verse is focused on a comparison between Melchisedec and the Levitical Priesthood. This final comparison is to highlight the difference between Levitical Priests who die, and Melchisedek of who no end of life is recorded (i.e. he that liveth). Nothing more.

The tenses, as I explained earlier are tool to help the reader to visualise Melchisedec receiving tithes and juxtapose that to the physical witnessing of receipt of tithes by the then present-day Levitical Priests. I liken this to a picture with a caption. The caption will describe what is happening in the picture in present continuous tense.

See the links below for examples. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2306888/Kate-Bush-receives-CBE-The-Queen.html or http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2236297/Gary-Barlow-returns-Buckingham-Palace-receive-OBE-Queen.html

That 'receives' is used does not automatically indicate a present-continuous receiving. It must be read in context - just like those captions - and the context is incontrovertibly Melchisedec

The witness of Melchisedec is the earlier reference in Hebrews 7:3 - he had no end of life, i.e. he lives. I agree, Jesus shares this same quality, but 7:8 does not talk about Jesus when read in context. Or are you saying Melchisedec is dead?

Now, as for your emphasis on what verse 13 is saying - it is referring to verse 11 and 12 and to the changing of the priesthood - the new priest arising after the order of Melchisedec. It is not referring to verse 8, where Melchisedek is being contrasted with Levi's priesthood. 13 is referring to Jesus as the one who brings about a change in priesthood.

This analysis of yours is only valid if you are claiming Melchisedec is dead. Melchisedec lives - he had no end of life, so the description 'he that liveth' applies to Melchisedec as he abideth continually as stated in Hebrews 7:3.

I don't need you to mention web-links, but I do not see your reasoning supported by the biblical evidence nor a contextual reading of Hebrews. I consider your view an unrealistic attempt to force Jesus into this verse, when it talks about Melchisedec. I have only asked for any other scholarly source supporting your reading of the verse - perhaps they could explain your view better.

As you are unable to present any, I have nothing further to say on this. I sincerely believe you are in error based on my contextual reading of Hebrews 7. Furthermore if those entrusted with translations - and those who examined the original texts to make commentaries interpret 7:8 as Melchisedec, I cannot see any basis for your own interpretation aside your need to show tithing as an ongoing practice.

When you people keep MIXING the Mosaic law with Christianity, that what you come up with. Tithing in scriptures is BY LAW COMMANDED and the the law that instituted the Levitical priesthood, the same law uphold them to get a tithe. Christian giving says or NEGATES, as you requested, the Mosaic tithing system - As we purpose in our heart, so we give not as imposed by the law either to the duty of Levitical priesthood or even by custom, either Jewish custom or whatever custom is may be. This is very simple.

A free will is born out of the heart of the giver, that is what the giver purposed in his heart, not what is compulsory or commanded as a FIXED rate or PERCENTAGE. Tithe is a fixed 10%, can't you get a simple definition? A free will can be today or this week 1% or 2 or 3 etc or even in some days\week be 11% or 12, 13 etc. The confusion is mixing what is said under the OT and the NT together.

Now, Jesus broke the sabbath law, the fourth in the ten commandments, and He did so more than four times, to show that the first time wasn't a mistake and the second time wasn't a coincidence, but a deliberate act. And yet Jesus had this testimony from Paul that He ...knew NO SIN, 1Cor 5v21, and also this witness from the Father that ...This is my beloved Son, in whom i am WELL PLEASED, matt 17v5

Question is this: HOW CAN SOMEONE WHO BROKE ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, AND SO SHOULD BE GUILTY OF ALL, KNOW NO SIN AND HAVE THE PLEASURE OF THE FATHER??!!

The only rational, unblasphemous, Spirit-inspired answer is this: The righteousness of the kingdom that Jesus premiered, preached and practised had NOTHING to do with Laws of Moses, it is a righteousness that the laws you obey and the commandments you keep OR NOT don't add to or subtract from.

But even before we reach destination perfection, our righteousness never fluctuates. That is the gospel of INFINITE GRACE.

Are tithes collection? The answer to this question is NO! Not for the New Testament Church and here is what the New Testament collection is,

New International Version (©2011)
Now about the collection for the Lord's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Now regarding your question about the money being collected for God's people in Jerusalem. You should follow the same procedure I gave to the churches in Galatia. On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don't wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once.

1 Corinthians 16:1

Ask yourself this, how many churches you see doing this biblical collections for the poor in Jerusalem? This is the Apostolic practice of then.

If you're NOT disputing this, then why don't leave it as it is. Don't you know the Christian giving is different to Mosaic tithing? Tithe\tithing is a function of commandment whether the one that is commanded likes it or not but Christian giving is as a man purpose in his heart, not according to commandment. Lemme me show you that from scripture,

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:7

That word, NOT of NECESSITY is the Greek word anagkē and it means: 1) necessity, imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of duty regarding to one's advantage, custom, argument. 2) calamity, distress, straits.

Tithing is a commandment BY THE LAW and Paul, the Apostle says, Christians giving should NOT be of necessity. That is, it should not be by 1) imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of duty regarding to one's advantage, custom, argument. Tithing is a Jewish CUSTOM and it is BY LAW a COMMANDMENT. Jesus and His Apostles that wrote the whole of the New Testament NEVER taught tithing to Christians. Why are you suggestion it?

You cannot contribute because you cannot show us where tithing was mentioned to Christians. Everywhere in scriptures where tithe was taught, the word tithe was used to communicate what is taught. Where does tithe apply to Christians in the New Testament? Even the person that advised you too cannot show it other than quoting Matthew 23:23 and tell us all scriptures is inspired as if we don't know that already or telling us, is Matthew 23:23 not part of the word of God anymore as if we don't know that too. The only tithe was mentioned in the new testament, is was ABOLISHED. Hebrews 7.

What is written is NOT your word, it is the word of God. Using languages such as "as far as YOU are concerned" is taking what is written as your personal interpretation. If the Lord is entitled to tithe, then is it too hard for you to show us from scriptures. You need to ask your dishonest friend Image123 who like to twist Hebrews 7:8 that it was Jesus who collected tithe. Maybe you can quote that scriptures also. If Jesus truly is entitled to tithe, kindly show us from scriptures or you're guilty of going beyond what is written or adding to God's word.

Don't correct my interpretation, show from\with scripture where Jesus is entitled to tithe or commanded tithe should be brought to him. Do you even know that, by the law, Jesus CANNOT TAKE TITHE BECAUSE HE IS FROM TRIBE OF JUDAH ACCORDING TO THE FLESH? Again, go read Hebrews 7 again. I await you to show us where Christ is entitled to tithe, IT MUST BE WRITTEN! Or is the word of God no longer our final authority? If you can't show it, then my discussion with you will go no further. At least, those who are reading this thread would have seen what is going on here.

Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

We've discussed this already - the temple still existed at the time of writing Hebrews and Jews were still giving tithes to the Levitical Priesthood at this time. That is what Paul was referring to.

Verse 8 refers to Melchisedec and the fact that he did not die, while Levitical Priests died. The use of receiveth does not connote present continuous in this context either. It simply juxtaposes a current practice (at the time of writing) of tithing to Levitical priests with a previous one, by calling on the reader to put himself at a point in history and witness Melchisedec receiving tithes from Abram.

1After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road. 5“When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them; if not, it will return to you. 7Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house. Luke 10, NIV

From here, we see that those who preach the gospel and should receive their living from the gospel is by the FREEWILL GIVING of those to whom the gospel is preached to and the Lord said this is because the worker or labourer deserves his wages.

There is nowhere in scriptures where Christ commanded tithe to be received by those who preach the gospel.

Those who preach the GOSPEL were NEVER told told to get their living from the TEMPLE; it was instructed or commanded to those who minister at the TEMPLE.

. ."Do not go beyond what is written." 1 Corinthians 4:6

The crux of the matter here is tithe. You added collections and material blessings. I don't understand why you did that but since you mentioned those two, we shall treat them also with the subject of tithe\tithing. First, there's no where in the scripture you quoted that tithe is mentioned specifically. The word of God is greater than we all. If Paul the Apostle wanted to mean or write about tithe to the Church, he would have mentioned it by the Spirit of God. You're simply going beyond what is written and trynna force your tithe into that context like those we know on this forum.

2. Collection in the New Testament is not from the brethren go to those who labor spiritually for the others as you wrongly or falsely claim; it is for the poor among the early church and saints. Doesn't it bother you the church had gone away from the truth of the Apostolic teachings today? Look at the rate of poverty among many churches, folks living less than $2 per day. Does many churches collect for the poor or for themselves?

3. Material blessings? YES! Those who labor spiritually for the others in the word are expected to benefit the materials things. This truth we cannot argue from the word of God but the issue here is, are these material blessings that is to be given to or shared with those who labour spiritually suppose to be or instructed to be tithe or from tithe of others? That's what we seek to address from the scriptures you quoted above.

Now, you quoted 1 Corinthians 9:7-14 with emphasis on verses 13-14 and perhaps presented it as though it speaks of tithe in that context.

The problem with many of us is, when we read scriptures, we don't question some things. When I say, question the scriptures, I don't mean it in the negative way. I mean it in the positive so that such questioning can trigger more study or findings. Now, lemme me do justice....please note, tithe as a word did not appear in that text and since it does not, it cannot be assumed to mean tithe.

Whenever an old testament scriptures is referenced in the new, a good bible student will always find where it was written in the old and apply it into the context of where the new testament made such quotation(s).

New International Version (©2011)

Don't you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?

In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14

In verse 13, is a reference to group #1, THOSE WHO SERVE IN THE TEMPLE...and how do they get their food? The context answers, ...from the temple. Where is this in scriptures from the Old Testament?

New International Version (©2011)
The Levitical priests--indeed, the whole tribe of Levi--are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the LORD, for that is their inheritance. Deuteronomy 18:1

...please note that those who serve in the TEMPLE are different from those who serve at the ALTAR but the same tribe of Levi or Levitical priesthood. Hence, the two-in-one reference to TEMPLE and ALTAR.

In the same verse 13, is a reference to the #1(b) groups - Those who serve at the altar and how do they get their food? Again, the context answers for itself, ...from what is shared from what is offered on the altar . Where is this in scriptures? Leviticus 7:1-8 is the answer - Please, everybody should read it. I can't do much quoting now but verses 5-7 says,

The priest shall burn them on the altar as a food offering presented to the LORD. It is a guilt offering. Any male in a priest's family may eat it, but it must be eaten in the sanctuary area; it is most holy. The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.

Therefore, we have group one - those who serve in the temple AND those who serve at the altar

In verse 14, the Apostle made reference to another group, group #2 - those who preach the gospel. And how are these group of people supposed to make their living?

1After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road. 5“When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them; if not, it will return to you. 7Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house. Luke 10, NIV

FOLYKAZE: What we have in the dead saint return is that they entered into the city where people see them. We didn't have any recorded beyond that.

Are you saying those dead saints didn't have family, neighbour or friends in their lifetime? If not, they are strangers not resurrected. You can only say someone resurrect if you know from a source that the person in particular is dead. And for those friends, family and neighbours that witnessed this, wont they be amazed and rejoiced?

Holding onto the record in the bible, Resurrection of Jesus or anybody is momentous. Lot of people gathered to meet Jesus and they are rejoiced when they see things with their eyes. Lazarus, Dorcas and the little boy resurrected by Elijah is momentous. People are there to witnessed it and those that see them are amazed. I disbelief in those stuffs cuz there is no evidence to back it up.
What you call resurrection of Jesus was theorized by some christian scholars to be:
-stolen body theory
-missing body theory
-Swoon Theory
-Drugged-Body Theory
-Twin Theory
-Vision Theory
-Hypnosis Theory
-Spiritual Resurrection Theory.

No physical or logical evidence can be used to back Jesus resurrection, so it worth not beliving.

Is there anything special in preaching? What special is the message you are passing across. If they are rant, it got nothing to do with people awareness. Do you want me to record numbers of time my bird sing? But I can if the bird give birth to offspring without mating. Thats it.

The whole impacts applies to that of Jesus. Changing people ideology and way of thinking. Adeboye said he drove a car from Ore to Lagos without fuel. I can buy my own car and take it to him for prayer so that I can save the fueling fee for something else. If what adeboye said cant do without people thinking, it just a mere saying.

If dead returns means nothing to you, then Jesus death and return means nothing too.

I asked same question. You should answer that cuz you believe in the bible. Who pls?

What prove do you want from me? Did you see me claiming anything here? Present those stuff which are significant to you from them, then I will investigate to see if it true or not.

I guess you missed the testimony hours. Lol

nothing like miracle.

Lol, you want me to tell you that I was blind since birth and my eye opened merely by mentioning Jesus? WORLD does not necessary mean the whole earth. Get that. But someone must be involved to witness and prove such thing happened.

Goshen360: Because you don't understand verse 13, that's why you're also confused on verse 8 or deliberately basterdizing the context. Answer my question, and we take it one by one. Who received tithe from Abraham? Christ or Melchizedek. When you answer that, then I will explain what verse 13 is saying.

Bidam: I understand perfectly what alwaystrue was saying on Paul's writings goshen. it was just a rhetorical question to know her views on the matter.It is often taught that when Paul spoke of the Torah serving as a guardian before Jesus, he was saying that it held the Jews, under the Law of Moses, in bondage until Jesus came and died and now that role of the Torah is permanently done away with. This is a biased misreading of the text, as God does not change. What Paul is saying is that in the life of every living person (yesterday and today), the Torah functions as such before they come to Messiah.

The point everyone is making( ihedinobi, alwaystrue,image i believe )is that after anyone comes to trust in Jesus, the Torah's curse and role of guardian, each cease. However, the Torah's role as God's revelation of how we are to live for Him continues.

Bidam: I understand perfectly what alwaystrue was saying on Paul's writings goshen. it was just a rhetorical question to know her views on the matter.It is often taught that when Paul spoke of the Torah serving as a guardian before Jesus, he was saying that it held the Jews, under the Law of Moses, in bondage until Jesus came and died and now that role of the Torah is permanently done away with. This is a biased misreading of the text, as God does not change. What Paul is saying is that in the life of every living person (yesterday and today), the Torah functions as such before they come to Messiah.

The point everyone is making( ihedinobi, alwaystrue,image i believe )is that after anyone comes to trust in Jesus, the Torah's curse and role of guardian, each cease. However, the Torah's role as God's revelation of how we are to live for Him continues.

Goshen360: Okay, let's put it this way, if it was Jesus that the whole passage is talking about according to verse 13, then the question is, was it Jesus that received tithe from Abraham? You can even put it (receiveth) in your present continuous if you want to answer the question.

kennedyugo: Not only cartoons and dolls! Even home movies are instrument in the hand of satan. Why is it very hard to find a movie without immoral content (sex, sexy, nudity)? What does it show you? Even music, more than 90% of music today teach nothing but immorality! The world has really crumbled in all aspect!
The truth is very scarce these days!
Only few who keep themselves unspotted would eventually make Heaven.

debosky: The whole bible is talking about Jesus - that does not prevent us from understanding that other secondary characters are being spoken of in specific instances. That Hebrews is talking about Jesus doesn't prevent us from identifying Abram, Levi or Melchisedec being referred to in different contexts.



The original doesn't have to have the name Melchisedec - even without the name Melchisedec, contextual reading of the passage leads to the conclusion that it does refer only to Melchisedec in that verse. The other translations simply reinforce that same conclusion.

I don't see any basis whatsoever for your assertion that it isn't Melchisedec. Can you provide any evidence supporting this view from external sources?

debosky: Yes I meant verse 3.

The reference was a comparison between two priesthoods that collected tithes - one constituted of men who died, the other was Melchisedec, of whom no end of life was recorded. The one that is witnessed to be alive in this passage is Melchisedec - this is why I requested you read the passage in context to see who is being referred to.



Some versions even reference 7:8 as Melchisedec as posted earlier by Goshen - those should be sufficient as evidence don't you think? There is a similarity between Jesus and Melchisedec, but clearly, this discussion is around Levi's tithing in Abram's loins to a priest with no 'end of life'



I don't dispute 13 onwards was talking about Jesus - the first part of Hebrews chapter 7 was comparing the Levitical Priesthood to the Priesthood to which Abram tithed.



It is not a 'new cut' - all I have said is that Jesus is not introduced into the passage till verse 12, where the changing of the priesthood (to that of Jesus) begins to be discussed. It is clearly evident that Paul introduces Jesus by talking about the need for a change of the priesthood. Before then, there is no reference to Jesus in Hebrews 7.

brilapluz: d bolded says it all..wat more proof do U need?..my broda,just give WILLINGLY FROM UR HEART 2 EVERYONE includin ur ministers or leaders of d gospel,D POOR,D NEEDY,etc..God bless U..

Goshen360: Don't mind him, he is known for trolling attitude without any meaningful things

debosky: I don't mean anything serious, I was just echoing the phrase goshen used.



Melchisedec is the one witnessed to be alive - he is the one spoken of in verse 5 as having no 'end of life', the one spoken of earlier in from verse 1 till 12, when the discussion changed to the 'changing of the Law' and Christ.

debosky: Image123 na wa for you - let's quote the verse before and after 7:8, even from your KJV to see what is being discussed:



8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

How can we regard Hebrews 7:8 as referring to anyone other than Melchisedec?

Logicboy03: Do you people just say anything to make omniscience fit in with freewill?

An omniscient being's vision of the future is 100% certain

A projection is only an estimate for the future
========================


Your example in bold fails so hard
-God already knew that the woman will miscarry the baby even before the pregnancy came

Ihedinobi: So it does not describe anything but you agree that it was a shadow of things to come? "Shadows of things to come" cannot mean description of things to come, can it?



Ok, Zikkyy, it's useful not necessary, right? I see what you're saying. We might as well box up our Bibles since the benefits derivable from it are optional, mm. I hear you. Never mind "desire the sincere milk of the word" or other Scriptures just like that. Good one, Zikkyy.

What purpose again did you say the Scriptures are notuseful for? Instruction? Or exhortation? What?

Pastor Kun: With all due respect I wld like to submit that ihedinobi is a very dis honest poster as far as scamming in the. Church is concerned.

5solas: Are you saying God has little or no interest in your job?

Or you don't know some players are believers?

musKeeto: And theism's knowledge?

Aren't we all ignorant? YOU especially...



https://www.nairaland.com/1260566/permission-use-brains-o-man/1#15310536

Logicboy03: Cant and Wont


Omnipotence means that God can lie.......but he doesnt have to.

You cant even explain your own position.....smh