₦airaland Forum

@Zikky

When you tithe (remit a tenth of your income to your church)out of obedience you are only obeying the words of the pastor, God did not instruct the Christian to give a tenth of their income to the local church. So if you really need to comply with the word of God you don't tithe; you give instead (whether 5%, 10% or even 100%). If you decide to adopt the levitical tithing model as a means to financing the activities of your church, i believe it is acceptable. But it is something you chose to do; not based on any rule or commandment from God.

Tithe is a type of giving, i've always said that. The Bible says Abraham gave tithes, Abraham gave a tenth part of all. The pharisee said "I give tithes of all that I possess." It's unfortunate then reading in one of debo's posts that i was the one trying to separate tithes from giving. Tithe is a form of giving, it is also an offering. Jesus said give. jesus said "these things ought ye to have done. So my dear, when you tithe, you are actually GIVING tithe. i've not decided to adopt the levitical tithing model, i've decided to learn from it.

Do you know that Image123 worshiped and rendered offerings to 'sango' (the god of thunder)? He worshiped 'sango' in his great great grandfather you know how? well, it was because he was still in his great great grandfather's loins while the old chap was rendering offerings to sango i believe i make a lot of sense here, abi?

Of course, you make a lot of sense if my great great grandfather worshipped 'sango'. But this below makes greater sense to me now.
Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
i'm now in Christ, i was once a sinner.

@bernimoore

And let me humbly repeat,that jesus was never Against the pharisees keeping the law or commandment,yes,but rather want them to keep it 'honestly'.not hypocrytically applying one,while leaving others,but want them to be 'strict' observant together with compassion.and that is what the rule concerning the law says,that if you 'must keep the law and fail in even one,you have failed in all the laws' confirm this;

James 2:10
For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God's laws.

You are sooo correct in this. Jesus was never against the pharisees keeping the law or commandment of God. The law is good, even Paul said so.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
he said is the law sin? God forbid. but its unfortunate how people tarnish and rubbish the law because they want to argue against tithes. In following a law(whether God's law or any law, for there are many laws) , one has to be careful not to follow or obey that law just in the letter, but in the Spirit. i'm trying to break this down as much as possible. take for instance, in lagos, there is a law on bike riders to wear crash helmets. following the letter of that law is to put on the safety helmet and be seen. It doesn't matter the state of the helmet, whether it sizes, or is durable or has expired. All most of the government enforcement officers want to see that you pass them with an helmet on your head. you've fulfilled the letter. But the sprit of that law is to really protect and reduce crash effects in case of an accident. The bike rider ought to have a tight and durable helmet that fits and protects efficiently against crash. he ought to understand the purpose and take his safety serious. But if you live in a place like lagos, you'll see that the spirit of that law has not been fulfilled. The letter is fulfilled most cases. the bike rider would hand the passenger some helmet looking material as they approach a stop/check point. You will see people putting helmet on gele and holding the helmet. the enforcement officer would not bat an eyelid. that's a kind of illustration of fulfilling the letter and not the spirit of the law. That attitude of let's just do it, sebi they said we should. that's the way the pharisees were and some of us. the pharisees would see the letter that said a man was stoned for carrying sticks on the sabbath. Then they would look at the man Jesus said should pick his bed and walk on the sabbath. And they would get very furious, because the man is carrying a bed made of sticks. They did not realise the Spirit behind the law, or they were concerned with was keeping the letter "don't carry sticks". they would fight with Jesus for healing on the sabbath day, not realising that the law was made for man, not man for the law.
When one follows the letter, it will kill you. you would see so many contradictions that are not. you would weary yourself in the end. God so loved the world, yet He says "love not the world". It would give you an headache if not atheism if you follow the letter and continue insisting, instead of walking in the Spirit. There are denominations today who follow the letter that "God so loved the world", and they love the world and get themselves into all sort of mess and embarrassment in the world. You should know some of them. There are some others who have taken up the letter of "love not the world", and they won't touch this, or speak to that or associate with anybody. Anybody that is not in their church or leaves their church is the world. And they continue to kill themselves. Because of the letter. But when you follow the Spirit, you would have the balance and the life that the Word of God was meant to give.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
We are delivered from the law in the sense that we are not killed by it, because we walk in the Spirit, we serve in the Spirit. that's the new testament, that how we are supposed to serve. But some still follow the letter, it must be crop`, it must be levi, it has to be in Israel.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

ihope this has addressed the other parts of your post.

@bernimoore

you claimed that jesus indicted the pharisees for following the letter, but none of your 3 quoted bible verses you supplied did mention 'the pharisees' or even any of those comments there were not to the pharisees but instead it was paul counselling.read again now;
even the last of the bible you quoted,was not even relating to jesus 'indictment of the pharisees'as you claim, read your quoted bible verse again;below

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT, and they are life. " (John 6:63)

this is what i said "The pharisees followed the letter and Jesus was continuously correcting that WE follow the Spirit, not the letter. Jesus told the Jews "none of YOU keeps the law".. i don't know, but i think it is slightly different from "The pharisees followed the letter and Jesus was continuously correcting that THE PHARISEES follow the Spirit, not the letter. Jesus told the Jews "none of YOU keeps the law".". The blue is in your imagination, the green was what i meant/said.
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Who also hath MADE US ABLE MINISTERS of the new testament; NOT OF the LETTER, but of the spirit: for THE LETTER KILLETH, but the spirit giveth life."
i trust you know how to add one plus one?

@Goshen

Thank you Debosky. When we interpret scriptures with scriptures, this and more are the kind of revelation we come up with. Levi DID NOT "literally" paid tithe to Melchizedek as Image123 claimed. When these Levi or Levites now came out of Abraham, they NEVER PAID tithe literally but commanded to receive tithe.

You lie when you say i claimed what i did not claim. Somebody said Levi never paid tithes, and i simply quoted scriptures which state that Levi did.

Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
It's humility for you to re-phrase the statement that Levi never paid tithes instead of brushing off the scriptures i gave as just "Image123 claimed". That's poor, and i think its you that made that claim. here you are again saying that the Levites never paid tithe literally. This shouldn't be about just winning an argument, or making a point, or having the last say. If i proved you wrong now, you'd jump to some other insignificant thing again, INSTEAD OF LEARNING AS YOU INITIALLY CLAIM. We all know(even Kunle), that the Levites paid tithe to the priests, i'm disgusted why you are claiming "they NEVER PAID tithe literally but commanded to receive tithe"

Q9.

(a) Did the Levites (temple workers) worked in the temple "full time"?

YES. When we say full time, i don't mean they are working in the temple 24hours seven days without sleeping. What i mean is that is their job, their major occupation. They were to serve God without distraction as it were. It's unlike part-time workers like maybe you work in a bank, then you are an usher on Sunday. Full-time is you are working for the church for a living, maybe as church accountant, gateman, driver, fulltime pastor etc. In the time of Israel, the Levites were the ones that did everything temple work.
Num 18:22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die.
Num 18:23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.

David later used some administrative gift to divide them into 'courses' though. That is, he put them in shifts. That's why its good to read the whole Bible to get the full revelation instead of just staying on one passage somewhere, without considering other passages speaking on the same matter.
2Ch 8:14 And he appointed, according to the order of David his father, the courses of the priests to their service, and the Levites to their charges, to praise and minister before the priests, as the duty of every day required: the porters also by their courses at every gate: for so had David the man of God commanded.

Luk 1:8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
Luk 1:9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

Q9.

(b) Were the OT priests also kings?

What's that got to do with anything? Melchisedec was an OT priest who was also a King.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
The two position are simply offices, there is no specialpoint attached to it. there is the office of the king, the office of the prophet, the office of the priest. Today in church, there are five MAJOR offices of teacher, pastor, apostle, prophet and evangelist. You can occupy just one, you may be graced to occupy more. It all depends on God and how He chooses to administer the office. David occupied the office of prophet and King, Moses was of the tribe of Levi but a prophet, not a priest. Paul was an apostle and at least a teacher and an evangelist. The Levites were administratively set apart as priests for Israel when their order started. today, we are all made priests as children of God. God gave the Kingdom to david, but also gave kings from other tribes to Israel when the kingdom divided. there are more important things set in stone.

BERNIMOORE: @image123,
you claimed that Abrahams tithe was based on 'revelation',which was a surprise twist from the earlier claims by the tithe Advocates,
kindly back your revelation claims with bible backings,im waiting pls,thanks.


explanation pleeaaaase.

i don't really recall posting what you are saying.please kindly quote the full post where that was said, so that I can get the context. see you guys tomorrow evening or monday BTW, I don't 'live on nl remember.

@debosky

Since we are the true children of Abraham as is written in Gal 3:29, can we not also be said to have given tithes since we are heirs to the promise of Abraham? If Levi as priests gave tithe in Abram, and we are also priests, can we not also be said to have given tithes in Abram?

Yeah, you are making a lot of sense, but we are not dead, we are still alive. We don't dwell on what we have done in the past, we should have a living faith, that can do what it did in the past by faith. We gave/paid and we are still giving/paying. That's wonderful.

Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Note the tenses of the bolded verbs, it's not past but present continuous. We are the children of the God who was, AND IS, and is to come. You make a very important statement my brother.

Is tithe the only way we can 'consistently' take care of workers in the tabernacle? What if the 'care' God's workers need is more or less than the tithe? What then? Or is the care of workers in the tabernacle restricted to the tithe?

i've explained this in my reply above to Jem1. Tithe is a consistent way, i don't know if there are other ways that are that consistent and guaranteed if implemented. If the 'care' is less than the tithe, then they can save. Ever heard that word before, SAVE like the Saviour. Or they can give out. Just do your part, God will take care of the rest. Thou art careful and troubled about many things. If the 'care' is more, then they should go and learn how to be abased and to be content. Or they may simply ask. It's not rare to see pastors tell their members, "we need to do A,B, C" and then the members contribute.

It is odd to talk about following the 'letter' of the law, yet sticking firmly to tithe/tenth - are we to give a fixed percentage or give according to the need?

It's not odd to talk about the letter of the law when we put it in it's right perspective. there is NOTHING bad about the law, we need to follow it in Spirit i.e the Spirit of the law, not the letter. iguess i will talk more about that wen addressing bernimoore. A tenth or tithe is not a letter of the law, that why we keep DRUMMING it into your skulls that the practice of giving tithe existed BEFORE the law AND is not an essential constituent of the law. Mercy, Jugdement and faith are also written in letters in the law(assuming we follow your understanding). Giving is giving, it's not competing with each other. i give tithe and i also give according to need. they are not mutually exclusive practices or test question options where one must be wrong if one is right.

Now on to other things:

I would want you to consider the following quote:

https://www.nairaland.com/932877/where-does-bishop-oyedapo-get

When you say we need to pay the Levitical Tithes first Tithe so our MOG can be catered for is this what you mean?

This is what i mean in the passage below. i don't live by what happens on the news or what man does, i live by the Word of God.

Num 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.
i didn't talk anything about paying or giving levitical tithes or levitical first tithes. Lets keep it simple. A tithe is simply a tenth or ten percent. Tithe is given FOR/BECAUSE OF their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle. Anything you want to give them apart from tithe is generally classed an offering.

The italics is a quote from musKeeto on the said thread.

muskeeto is not a believer in the first instance. And i don't live my life based on opinion, i live by faith in God. Whatever might obtain in Oyedepo's church doesn't obtain in all churches, the Word of God is applicable to all churches. So i don't exactly base my actions and decisions, obedience and disobedience on one man or one church, i look unto Jesus, and automatically to the Word for He is the Word.
Which one should we take, one sect of antitithers argue that tithe is insignificant to take care of ministers, that other means will so therefore don't tithe give offerings if you wish. Here is another sect of antitithers saying tithe is the real windfall. Some would even or have even swallowed the two schools of thoughts in their insincerity. i clicked the link and skimmed through the thread. muskeeto claims to have access to some big church's account. Why are we not seeing the expenses section. let's see how the money was spent too now, before we make judgements on this one particular church. BTW, we may have the same income but spend it different ways, it doesn't cut across all churches and cannot be used as a standard or bench mark. How many ONE church has 100 members that are ALL working and all earning above minimum wage, and are ALL faithful to paying their tithes every month. Maybe that church is on Jupiter or something. All 100 members are working, and they are all faithful to giving their tithes every month. And there is no other church expense but to put it all in the GO's account or buy jet, foolish.

You also argue (like Rev. Ewuosho) that adding another 10% making it 20% would be hard for our brethren to give, WHY do you think we cannot give from the 1st 10% to meet other needs you suggested to inculcate a sharing spirit, generosity?

Sorry you misunderstand what i've said. When i say it's hard, i mean that it would be hard to preach it. there's already a planet of issues telling people to give out 10%, you may start a riot asking people to give out 20% or more when you consider tax, projects, vows, blah blah etc. Some rare ones can give quite more, but the natural man would not want to even give anything, it's all mine mine, mine. I'm talking about a sane condition please, i'm not talking about places where people are doctored into giving. Of course, ive said it severally that there is an abuse not just of tithing but giving in general. there are places where you go and giving is hyped until you drop your shoes, wristwatch, phone and what not, i'm not referring to that. giving is not hard in those places, reality is. i'm talking of the normal orthodox givings. there is a tenth we give for the church. Of the remaining 90% we can take care of ourselves and of others if we employ good money management. It's selfish ithink to use 10% to meet church and others' need, and use the 90% remaining only for ourself. ithink giving out 20% should not be too much to ask, giving tithe DOESN"T stop you from helping the poor if you want to. Where is the 90%? In the bank? Since you are so generous, it should not be hard for you to give 10% of you money out, even 50%, or as some hypocrites suggest when arguing against tithes, even 100%.

@Jem1

Good. At least we agree that the Pharisees followed the letter but we don’t have to. Why do you insist on following the 10% rule? Agreed you ignore the idea it must be food and crops why 10%? Does the number have a magical potency?

Which one is the 10% rule again? i do you guys keep coming up with silly and bogus terms and phrases, all in a bid to make the tithe look like a yoke? The law was the yoke, deal with the law, tithe is just a minor issue when we start mentioning and explaining the law. the word even hardly comes up in the pentateuch. You don't find it in Exodus, it's just once or threabout in the other four books each. there are weightier things to focus on if you want to counter the law, tithe is not one of the 'problems'. We are to follow the Spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. Because the letter kills, but the Spirit gives Life. We are not to throw away the law, don't get me wrong please. And pls, try to read all my other posts, not just the ones i mentioned your name. that way, you are not re asking about things that have already been talked about. There is no magic, it's called mathematics not magic. A tithe is a tenth is 1/10 is 10% is 0.10.

If you don’t have to keep the letter, why impose a 10% rule on others? If you disregard the letter that was so important that when it was broken by the old testament Priests/Levites, it led to curses for the Priests/Levites in Malachi 3; why impose a ‘Malachi bondage’ of FEAR on others, when they CANNOT BREAK THE LETTER AS THEY DONT HAVE TO KEEP THE LETTER?

The letter is when one is dogmatic and bigoted as if in a law court, and screaming "this is what Leviticus says", i'll hear no other. That's the letter, it's only looking at Leviticus, and lexis and grammar of a passage. It's not putting it all together as by the Spirit of God. Antitihers insist on some letter about crops, it's got to be crops or nothing. that's the letter. Not the law itself. The whole Bible is the Law of God. It's possible to just stick to the letter of some NT passage without having the Spirit of God give life, some call it legalism ithink. it's not just OT or Moses. The letter killeth anywhere NT or OT. But the Spirit gives life anywhere NT or OT.

Good. The letter defined what was HOLY according to Lev 27:30,32,34. Of course you can set aside something for God and call it holy if you want BUT that is different from WHAT GOD OF HIS OWN VOLITION DEMANDS IS HOLY. Obviously keeping to WHAT GOD DEMANDS in this case would be keeping to the letter which WE agree we don’t have to adhere to the letter. YOU WOULDN’T BE ABLE to meet the CRITERIA anyway of what GOD DEMANDS AS HOLY IN Lev 27:30,32,34

The bolded part of the quote answers you. Meditate on it bro.

Obviously since you can’t keep the letter of Lev 27:30,32 based on your circumstances of not being an Israelite who has been bequeathed land in Israel, that part is a no brainer (it was never ever going to be kept by you). Choosing to pay 10% might be a magical potent number to some but that is of YOUR OWN VOLITION NOT PER COMMANDMENT OF THE LORD.

You keep saying this, and i've asked before. Where do you see this, who said you must be in Israel or you must be an Israelite to obey God, or to give tithe? i'm an israelite by the way, but can you show us the scriptures that say i have to be in Israel or my land has to be in Israel? The earth is still the Lord's
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, [b]in the spiri[/b]t, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

You know where I stand on Faith, Mercy and Justice. You might want to read that again. Whether part of the Law or not, WOULD YOU (IMAGE/CHRISTIANS) have been able to keep the letter of Faith, mercy and justice even in the old testament?

i'm confused about where you stand. please be clear. Are faith, justice and mercy more important in the law than tithes? Is this law to be done away with? i keep the law in the Spirit by God's grace, not by my power but by the Spirit of God.

Dear God no! If I’ve come across as that in any way, I do apologise to you okay? Please, my intention has always to state my position. Most of the time, I address a system that I know is unfair, unjust and unmerciful to the large majority of struggling Christians in our beloved country. A lot of them are supersticious and fears of Malachi curses are used to make them pay compulsorily 10% of their wages for life (as though it were a COMMANDMENT FROM GOD) inorder to prevent accidents, illness, death etc. (things that can be reduced if thieving politicians used the nation's resources for good roads, hospitals etc, na them be the real winshes and wisards lol).

Please if I come across as too passionate, know it’s not about you as a person okay? You are my brother even when we disagree, we don’t know each other and it would be foolish of me to presume to know all of who you are just because we disagree on tithing. You may be the best fellow just that I disagree with you on your tithing position.

i don't mean it in that sense, anyway we're cool, and you are my good brother.



Please i will try to reply your POSTS from where i stopped, not from most recent, so that i don't miss any detail

@kunle

Bros where in your bible is itt written that the temple tithes takes priority? Cause if we are to go by the teachings of christ, giving to the poo takes more priority than giving to the temple.

read me in context pls. i said, of the three types of tithe that we've been speaking of on this thread, the 'temple tithes' takes priority. Most of the time tithe is mentioned after the pentateuch, it's the one been alluded to.

Contrary to the errornous teachings being given today to justify the modern day tithing scam, tithes was not the primary source of taking car of temple workers in the old testament. There were several other offerings which was used to take care of the temple workers, these offerings include sin offering, new month offerings, festival offerings, thanks giving offerings and a list of others. These offerings were done regularly unlike biblical tithes which was only once a year. Common sense dictates that it is not this once in a year levy that the temple workers depended on when there were several other regular offerings given. The problem is that our modern day tithe merchants in their bid to justify the racket have so obfuscated the meaning and purpose of biblical tithe that people find it so difficult to come to terms with what the bible truely says about it. Even going by the old testament example, our religious leaders should be satisfied with various offerings given. Even the old testament levites that were authurised to collect tithes collected only once a year contray to the usurpers who now collect their illegal version of it weekly/monthly.

Come off your high horse mr, and listen. Tithe is the consistent method of taking care of temple workers, ALL. i didn't say it's the only way or even the fattest way, it's the CONSISTENT, most reliable. Some offerings were not to be eaten, some were for only the priests i.e the house of Aaron. Some offerings were just to be eaten by the males in the house of Aaron, some were to be eaten up within a day or two compulsorily, some must be eaten in the temple etc. It's all in the Bible, i'm not here to expound on that, you have a Bible. But the tithe CONSISTENTLY and reliably took care of the tribe of Levi, all of them could partake of it. And harvest doesn't have to be once in a year, you need to go and live in your village. Not all fruits/crops are harvested at the same time. They have their seasons, some are twice in a year, some are bi-annual and so forth. And the males of the Jews went to Jerusalem at least 3 times every year. So you can drop your offerings or tithe any time of the year. And crops can be preserved and stored in barns/storehouses. You just try to make it all look impossible and hard, that's why i say you are insincere. Use some commonsense please. It's unfortunate any drAB you say is taken in hook, line and sinker by the antitithe 'jury'. If you pay your tithe once a year or you pay it eveyday, it's the same thing, you need math lessons.. Supposing you earn 100naira every day, that would be 365 X 100 in a year(assuming you are paid every day). Annual income would be 36,500naira. If you give tithe of 36500naira once, it will be 3,650naira. if you give it daily, it will be 10naira daily and the cummulaative at the end of the year would be 10 X 365= 3,650naira. It's the same thing, stop majoring on minors as usual.


Guys, i have a engaged day today plus a wedding and some other engagement tomorrow, i can't guarantee answering all your questions today, but i'll see what i can do sha.

No qualms brother Gosh.

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." (1 Corinthians 13:.
They shall cease is different from they have ceased. It's still a big world it seems.

The fool has said, there is no God. i do not insult you, sorry. i've met enough uneducated folks to know that you must be the fool referred to.

logicboy: How christian of you

Very atheist of you to be a fool, what do you know?

buzugee: maybe he is a stammerer

Funny.

High fool you mean.

If Adeboye teaches him the Word, he has all right to seek his messages all over. There's time for everything, time to listen to messages, time to read Bible, time to post on NL.

Goshen, you don't need to reply the OP. OP, there are no legal free Pastor Adeboye messageS online to the best of my knowledge.

thehomer: How do humans use tsunamis and erupting volcanoes?
First, note that I pointed out to you that natural disasters are a result of living on a planet such as this. You disagreed with me now, do you agree with me?
Secondly, are you saying that God couldn't have created a better earth?

How do humans use tsunamis and volcanoes? Research na, who knows the future? That's why i said lines like "There was a time LIGHTNING was useless to man, there was a time crude OIL was useless, a time ELECTRIC CURRENT, NUCLEAR ENERGY, RADIOACTIVITY had no positives for man. Nothing's wrong with fire if it's under my pot of rice to cook it. But that same fire can destroy a house if not monitored".
'Natural disasters' would not be disasters if we had the sense to use them to our advantage. And many of it happens because the earth is out of course as the Bible says. Also God made a good earth, He made what was needed/required/sufficient/good enough.

thehomer: Judgement on the 2 year old who happened to be sleeping? What sort of judgement is that? Even humans avoid collective punishment yet God who can target specific people still goes on to commit mass murder.

You're reverting to type o, i've just shown you a difference between judgement and crime. i can discuss if you want, but if all you want is to scorn, go ahead.
Judgement on the whole earth is a statement of the gravity of sin. BTW, it's better to die a 2year old and go to be with God forever, than grow up corrupt and aware and go to hell fire forever eternity. To be candid, that's fair and considerably preferred.

@ptolomeus
Free will is not a mistake, and satan and 'demons' were not created that way.

logicboy: It rarely happens. It depends on how you sleep. The last time I was in sleep paralysis was years ago.

It doesnt happen to everyone. However, dont go claiming that it doesnt happen to you because of Jesus, because that is just clear stupidity.

i just said it man, i don't have it because of Jesus. i've had it before, but never again since God took charge. You still have it though, sorry you, got them filthy devils menstruating all over you.

Zikkyy zikkyy, i dey here where you put me na. You know from Adam that i agree that tithe teaching has been abused, and so also has teaching on giving in general, healing, deliverance etc. It's not a reason to throw out the baby with the bath-water. Obedience to the Word of God brings blessing, whether it's obeying God's Word to pray or have faith, or love, or tithe, or be holy. And i believe that the blessing of God makes rich as the scripture also says. If you obey God, you should expect to get rich if God is faithful. Being rich in spiritual parlance doesn't always mean a bank account. Some people think they are rich but are poor in Christ's sight. E.g Laodicea.
Tithe encourages giving, it teaches giving. It's not by force. i'd say it's necessary, not compulsory. Just like prayer or general giving. The apostle told some people "let EVERY ONE of you give". Is that forceful? As God as prospered him is proportional giving, it's same basic principle no matter how we explain it away. Explain
"And as I may so say, LEVI also, who receiveth tithes, PAYED TITHES in Abraham." (Hebrews 7:9).

"Who also hath MADE US ABLE MINISTERS of the new testament; NOT OF the LETTER, but of the spirit: for THE LETTER KILLETH, but the spirit giveth life." (2 Corinthians 3:6).
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that WE SHOULD SERVE in newness of spirit, and NOT IN the oldness of THE LETTER." (Romans 7:6).
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT, and they are life. " (John 6:63)
Bernimoore, these things are primary sunday school.

logicboy: Of course. Not a funny experience. When I was younger, I used to scream "Jesus" but now, I aint scared. Just a natural occurence

So you still have it? How come i never have it? How come the others on the thread don't have it after they become 'strong christians'.

[quote author=Martian][/quote]Mention leprachuan next time you get it, and let's hear how powerful the effect was.

musKeeto: Everything you're not...

i'm not boko haram, i'm not hell fire, i'm not a murderer, i'm not a mosquitoe.

Funniest thing i've read in a while.

I'm curious, question 9? Where is our visiting Dr by the way, i hope he's not among the ones the lagos government just sacked sha? Devourer ti finish e niyen o! LOL, just kidding. But Goshen, i thought you guys had big plans to spread the 'gospel' on nl big time?

^Have you ever experienced it?