₦airaland Forum

i've answered 7b, you're free to answer the 'answer'. i loose you i loose you i loose you then.

@Jem1, sorry i was linking your thoughts especially @the bolded.

As long as you can get people to practice 'Pastor's Tithe' which you attempt to pass off as God's instruction to Moses laced up with Abraham's war spoil example, you're quite happy to mislead God's children into paying compulsorily monthly without fail, 10% of their earnings to MOG.
The marks of the false shepherd/MOG:

@Goshen
Come back, not so fast. You want to end this question thing today? i bind you i bind you i bind you. We're still on 7b na.
7b). Did the Bible record Abraham as voluntarily giving tithe? This question is my answer. The Bible simply states that Abraham gave tithes. There's no explicit statement as to ascertain that he gave it voluntarily or was commanded. God was telling a MOG "I have commanded a woman to feed you". That one, we can say with certainty, this one is not stated. A verse like 'and Abraham gave Melchisedec tithe voluntarily/freely' would help your query. Or something like 'and Melchisedec met Abraham, and he gave him tithes as commanded by the Lord'. But we don't see any of the two. It's difficult for me to state 100%.

@debosky
You are the ones working outside what's written by stating without doubt that Abraham only gave tithes once. You know, there's room for intelligent and reasonable assumptions and deductions, but our assumptions should not be 'law'. If you assume Abraham gave tithes once in his life, fair. But don't push it or shove it down others' brain as law and absolute truth.
Jabez prayed 'once' in scripture, Rehab the har.lot had faith 'once', Abraham gave his Isaac 'once'. These are actions christians can eternally learn from and practice. Whatsoever was written was written for our learning, not just as information.
The virgin birth was written for posterity! Interesting. Well, it's a Bible doctrine that Jesus was born of a virgin.
Thank God, you learnt something from the snake on the pole. Same way i learn from Abraham. i'm not photocopying his tithe, am i? i'm also making applications.

@kunleOshob
Trying to confuse issues? So, you know that tithing was a norm before Levi and continue to create the impression that it started with the Levitical priests and MUST end with them? Hypocrite thou art. Melchisedec blessed Abraham with wine and bread? Am i the only one seeing this? Red Alert! Melchisedec blessed Abraham with wine and bread? Such an artless twist of scripture. Matthew 7.3-5
Such is the life of a materialistic antitither.

@Goshen
It's not about priests standing between you and God, it's about SERVING in the tabernacle. That's the major reason, service. And people would continue to serve in God's temple full-time for ever. My own work is to give the tithe, how they decide to share it is not much of a headache to me.

Pastor Kun: And where in your bible was it stated that Abraham's tithe was to God or acceptable to God. The scriptures is clear that Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek to King of Salem. Why are you so bent on forcing your fraudulent opinion into scriptures?

Melchisedec was priest of the most high God. Tithes and offerings belong to God, do you need a sunday school class on that one too? Hebrews says Melchisedek received tithes of Abraham AND blessed him. That's an indication of the receipt. Do you have any proof to the contrary, stating that Abraham's tithe was unacceptable?

^You need more exposure then.

7b). i can't say 100% certainty that it was voluntary, the Bible doesn't say so. i'll not like to make conjectures and conclusions on popular opinion. What the Bible says and which i blessedly and gladly follow is that whatsoever things written were written for our learning, not just as information. And that ALL SCRIPTURE(i take Genesis and Hebrews as part of scripture) to be profitable for instruction and doctrine.
Question 8?

@Goshen360
7a). Hmmm, next question already, i need to rub that cream tomorrow again.
"And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their SERVICE which they serve, even THE SERVICE OF THE TABERNACLE of the congregation." (Numbers 18:21).
The service was not limited to sacrificing animals, it is the service of the tabernacle, working in the house of God full-time. That continues forever. In the OT, the privilege was given first to firstborns, then finally Levites. Today, every believer can serve full time if he so wishes.

@Jem1
Telling people to give 10% of their income is not a mark of a false shepherd. That's such a ridiculous benchmark. How do you know a true one, iguess to you, it's the one that doesn't teach tithe. Tithe is the door to hell and heaven in your view. Of course, they didn't tithe until they started earning, they were all miraculously fed by God in the wilderness, recall?
Any sane person should know the importance of tax. Tithing is similar, it's not limited to christianity or Judaism. Priests were often given tithes even before Israel. It's this wisdom Joseph used in egypt to tax. Sustainability. How people would come here and start talking bollocks about being unfair baffles me greatly. It's just 10%, these are people that would claim to have the grace to voluntarily give all, hypocrites.

@debo
Abraham's tithe in its simplicity shows that tithe can be given from material other than crops and animals, AND still be acceptable to God. His example is written for my learning and i'm so enjoying it. The Bible doesn't say Abraham gave tithes once, it only records him giving tithe once.
How many times does something have to be recorded in scripture for it to qualify as doctrine? It's a question, i'd like to know. The virgin birth, how many times is it recorded in scripture? Is it doctrine? Every Word of God is pure, EVERY. All scripture IS INSTRUCTION, have you ever heard that or read that?

Pastor Kun: Olodo, God's tithe is clearly defined along with the procedure for going about it in deut 14:22-29. Abi you want me to take you thru sunday school lessons again?

Meanwhile you failed woefully in your so called attempt to even attempt Goshen's last question. You are seriously advised to 'repeat'. As it is now the best mark you can get for your so called attempt is 5%.

If you were not dull of hearing, you'd know by now that the passage you quoted only talks about some form of tithe. A tithe is simply a tenth. All your God's tithe na figment of your imagination. Every tithe mentioned in the scriptures qualify as its name, tithe. Limited humans trying to box God into their imaginations.

logicboy: Coward

Busy body, grow up.

You'd bet.

logicboy: There's more to life than preaching. Preaching is a one-sided debate.

Christian apologist prefer websites to forums. They put their message up and just want people to only read it.

Go and look for them.

logicboy: Agreed.

However, christians normally go into ignore mode if their religion is challenged in any topic

Not all christians are debaters, there's more to life than debates. Go and look for christian apologists if you're looking for endless 'debates'.

Pastor Kun: I sure the definition is clearly stated in your bible if you still have one.

The artless dodger

^i'm not exactly talking about myself. i'm talking in general. There are millions of topics, it's not every topic you want to discuss, and it's not everybody you want to discuss a particular topic with. It's not even everytime you want to discuss a particular topic.

What is a definition, and what's God's definition of tithe?

Jenwitemi: Because, as a Christian, he is not used to debating. He talks and his mates agrees by shouting hallelujah. Besides, he knows he'd be on the backfoot all the time in the debate. The Christian theology is very cruel to debate for. It is quite difficult, if not impossible, to support in debates like this and come out making good sense. That is the cross all Christians have to carry till the day they leave this earth.

Lazy and ignorant analysis. Ever heard of christian apologists? Not everybody has the same inclinations and likes. That you know something does not necessarily mean you love to teach it, discuss it or talk about it, especially on a forum. There are very much more important things

Another howler is the teaching that tithe cannot be given from outside Israel. Another figment of the imagination, or from the moon doctrine. "what is from the holy land is holy unto the Lord", very hollow shallow and thoughtless thinking, imust say.

Come to think of it, and to make the hypocrites mad. i don't see any direct tithe laws in Leviticus, what is really aimed are 'redeeming' laws. This can be redeemed, that cannot be redeemed. Why you force in your opinions continually, i neva neva know.

Morning sunshine, have you paid your tithe?

@ Image123,

Q6. According to Heb 7:2, Abraham gave tithe/tenth of "ALL" and the content of these 'ALL" was defined in Heb. 7:4 and Gen 14:14-24 that is, it was from war spoils. In these war spoils was Abraham's brother - Lot and his goods, goods, women and people.

Abraham;s tithe was from war spoils, though it's equally good that one gets a perspective of the words 'war' and 'spoils'. It's easy to assume things from an arm-chair perspective.
War is what Abraham engaged in and it deals with bloodshed. Spoils are what he got from the war. Spoils are what the victor gets from the enemy. Look at a NT and an OT spoils passage.
Luke 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
Luke 11:22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armor wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.

2Ki 7:6 For the Lord had made the host of the Syrians to hear a noise of chariots, and a noise of horses, even the noise of a great host: and they said one to another, Lo, the king of Israel hath hired against us the kings of the Hittites, and the kings of the Egyptians, to come upon us.
2Ki 7:7 Wherefore they arose and fled in the twilight, and left their tents, and their horses, and their asses, even the camp as it was, and fled for their life.
2Ki 7:8 And when these lepers came to the uttermost part of the camp, they went into one tent, and did eat and drink, and carried thence silver, and gold, and raiment, and went and hid it; and came again, and entered into another tent, and carried thence also, and went and hid it.
2Ki 7:9 Then they said one to another, We do not well: this day is a day of good tidings, and we hold our peace: if we tarry till the morning light, some mischief will come upon us: now therefore come, that we may go and tell the king's household.
2Ki 7:10 So they came and called unto the porter of the city: and they told them, saying, We came to the camp of the Syrians, and, behold, there was no man there, neither voice of man, but horses tied, and asses tied, and the tents as they were.
2Ki 7:11 And he called the porters; and they told it to the king's house within.
2Ki 7:12 And the king arose in the night, and said unto his servants, I will now show you what the Syrians have done to us. They know that we be hungry; therefore are they gone out of the camp to hide themselves in the field, saying, When they come out of the city, we shall catch them alive, and get into the city.
2Ki 7:13 And one of his servants answered and said, Let some take, I pray thee, five of the horses that remain, which are left in the city, (behold, they are as all the multitude of Israel that are left in it: behold, I say, they are even as all the multitude of the Israelites that are consumed and let us send and see.
2Ki 7:14 They took therefore two chariot horses; and the king sent after the host of the Syrians, saying, Go and see.
2Ki 7:15 And they went after them unto Jordan: and, lo, all the way was full of garments and vessels, which the Syrians had cast away in their haste. And the messengers returned, and told the king.
2Ki 7:16 And the people went out, and spoiled the tents of the Syrians. So a measure of fine flour was sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, according to the word of the LORD.
the two passages should be familiar i assume. The second passage speaks of a war situation between Israel and the Syians. the Syrians carried with them so much goods as to be able to feed the nation of Israel and turn economy from famine to surplus and 'deflation'. That's a picture of spoils. Armies carried a lot to feed and clothe tens and hundreds of thousands of soldiers. It's a similar thing if not more that is recorded in Genesis 14 where Abraham went to war with 5 kings who had defeated some KINGDOMS (including Sodom) and in the process taken captive Abrahan's nephew Lot. That's the backdrop.

(a) Since you claimed tithing involved "ALL" and NOT ONLY crops/animals (when you said it was we anti-tither that added the word, ONLY) plus the fact that the bible recorded in Heb 7:2 that Abraham gave a tenth part of ALL. Did Abraham tithed his brother with his brother's goods also? (Prove your answer with/from the scriptures)

The point we drew out of Abraham's tithe was that tithe could be given asides crops and animals. Abraham gave tithe of spoils and it was accepted by God and referenced in good light in the Hebrews. The Pharisee in Luke gave tithe of all that he possesed and i showed you from different translations that all that he possessed could also mean all that he gained, his income, increase etc. The definitive being that tithe can be given from things other than crops and animals as shown in the Bible, and not a new practice as ignorant men would have all believe. Abraham gave a tithe of his spoils from the 5 defeated kings. He owned their goods, it's recorded that he brought other goods aside Lot and co.
Gen 14:16 And he brought back all the GOODS, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his GOODS, and the women also, and the people.
Lot was not his spoil.

(b) Why must Christians tithe "regularly" from income based on Abraham's "one off example" of voluntary tithes from war spoils? (Your answers must be strictly backed with scripture and not opinion please).

On the contrary to your deceitful misleading, i've stated it more than once on this thread that you are very free to give tithes of crops and animals. i'm continually baffled when i hear excuses like one-off and such nonsense. To me as a christian, it doesn't have to be written 10times before it's important. All scripture is important to me and i'm not dull of hearing.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
i learned things from it. all that abraham did, his rise, his fall, his faith, his obedience, his sacrifice, i learn from it all. It doesn't have to be done in every book for me.

(c) After Abraham gave tenth part of the "ALL" (war spoils), he also gave the rest (goods, women and people) to King of Sodom WITHOUT KEEPING ANYTHING TO/FOR HIMSELF. Would you ALSO say that Christians should take after these example from Abraham TO GIVE ALL THEIR INCOME and DONT KEEP ANYTHING TO/FOR THEMSELVES AFTER RECEIVING THEIR MONTHLY INCOME?

Abraham did not keep Sodom's property to himself.

Gen 14:23 That I will not take from a thread even to to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

(d) Since you also claimed that Abraham as the father of faith set the example of tithing "ALL".
Would you tell us/Christians that Abraham also tithed his wife since his wife is part of his "ALL" and also, Abraham lied to Pharaoh and allowed his wife Sarah to go with Pharaoh when he was in Egypt; will you also tell us to take example from this act of Abraham?

i'll say you should learn from the life of Abraham. And get wisdom and UNDERSTANDING. IN understanding , be men/matured. By now, with all the explanations, you should know from what i've shown what 'all' means. You're free to re-read all my posts if you didn't understand them at first.

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Someone with your attitude would hold on to the letter of Jesus'words in the above passage and call Him a bare-faced liar, instead of understanding the context of the words used.

(d) Would you say "tithing" is an obligation for a Christian today? (I was about to ask same question but Enigma asked and you dodged it. Strictly base your answer from/with the scriptures and not from your own opinion please)

i believe this is 6e, What is an obligation? What are some three examples of christian obligations? With the answers, i can understand the question better and answer to it.

logicboy: Why are you so afraid of debate?

Afraid of debates, you're so funny. i don't need debates, that's all. i need more important things.

mazaje: Sin is subjective, no?. . .Eating of pork is a sin to some while it isn't to others. . .A new earth remains a myth ,a ridiculous fantasy and superstition. . .It has nothing to do with reality. . .Why believe Jesus when he talks about the new earth when he told his deciples that he will return before they finish running round israel for persecution?. . .

i gave a christian perspective. ithink i'm finished here.

logicboy: Thanks for your input.

What if religion itself is sin? Isnt that a good question?

There are different forms of religion ithink. My question is, what is religion?

What is religion?
A world without religion(whatever it means) would not be better than it is. Maybe different ofcourse but not much better. A world without sin would be much more better. Man's main problem is sin, other problems are a result of sin. That's what Jesus came to take care of. He wants a people whose sins have been taken care of, so that they can live with Him in the coming new earth, after this earth has been destroyed.

Jenwitemi: Or just that the Nigerian matrix is faultier, hence the more frequent occurrences of deja vu sensations. Who knows.I am not saying that the deja vu sensation is the result of glitches in the matrix alone. It is just a suggestion because little is still known about the cause.

It's not 'faultier', it's just that the 'network' is clearer as there is pronounced spiritual activity and belief. The atmosphere's is more saturated as it were.

You're entitled to your opinions if you don't want the Bible's opinion.

It's so unfair of the husband. It's like sending lions to a strong man because he's strong, very risky. She just proved that she's human and capable of falling, that's all. If the woman also sent seductive women to the man, he too would probably fall.