₦airaland Forum

nuclearboy: ^^

Of course I understand! Everyone reading the thread who has sense and has been following it understands that you are being a snake, a liar, hypocrite and a false teacher!

To carry it on, you deliberately answer questions you are not asked and avoid truth.

continue abeg - all of us are only displaying the truth (or lack of it) in our lives!

Truth hurts less over time brother, you've been served the truth. It's left for you to deal with it, or pass over it in anger and impatience. Address the issues raised instead of the graceless snippets you've actively sown into the thread pages. Goshen, let's make progress, traffic has reduced it seems.

You see, goshen and his fellows are always giving silly excuses about questions i am dodging all in a bid circumvent issues themselves and run in meaningless circles. When i answer their question, they quickly highlight some other issue or question, without addressing what i've said or indicating receipt of information or knowledge. Only to come back later, saying the same things afresh. i don't do copying and pasting or looking for my previous answers, i'll just take it you're not ready to learn. My time is quite precious.

@debosky
That's why i took some time to explain Abraham's spoils but you scorned it. Abraham got spoils, possessions of the five kings he defeated and of their armies. He only gave the king of Sodom what was taken from Sodom.
"And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people." (Genesis 14:16).
"That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I WILL NOT TAKE ANY THING THAT IS THINE, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:" (Genesis 14:23)
Also, if you read the chapter, you'd see that the 5kings defeated many other kingdoms apart from Sodom.
It was a normal practice to support priests with tithe even during the time of Abraham and among the heathen.

Goshen360: What are you talking about brother? I can't understand you o.

Hmmm, Peter denied Jesus. You do worse, you deny yourself. Anger and impatience indeed, don't let nuclear teach you bad thing o, he's always getting angry and impatient. Which one be deliberate answers again, are your own answers indeliberate? Abi see me see english o, na me say make you go call agberos. Goshen quoting words of pharisees in da Bible. Cherry sherryyy mango. Ask nuclear to explain to you, you can bet he understands.

In God's replacement earth, there'll be no 'repeat' because He Himself(Jesus Christ) would be in charge of the new earth, not some Adam.

^ when you said they are consequences, i thought you meant like in the case of CO2 emission or ozone depletions. That is that they are a sort of result of human activity. That's why i said it was an very absurd belief. Earth forming processes are not natural disasters and plagues, you've subtly changed context. For examples, Rain is good, but a two hour rain would cause flooding in some parts of lagos, nigeria. That's not God's fault. It's basically due to the ignorance and/or corruption of some men/humans. Corruption is sin, ignorance is due to the fall of man in Genesis. Man was made with capacity to sustain an Eden. If we consider one man and one woman sustaining and replicating a paradise the size of Eden, that's unmatched intelligence.
Today, man has regained some level of intelligence. Some people can actually control their home and offices' weather. Some can predict weather, earthquake, eruption and act in ways to avoid or minimise destruction. That's an improvement compared to 3centuries back. But we're yet to reach the level God created man.

^
You speak too much grammar for a learner. Go and read Acts 17, ihope you learn something extra as regards your query.

Who is lying? The OP of course. Who else?

Yepaaaaaa, i don suffer. See Goshen choosing the words of pharisees as his life's vision. If we mention Luke or Matthew now, he'll say that one is pharisee. Cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry cherry. Sherrrriy mangoooooo! Do you sell some, i want to give my tithes.

Big lol at Goshen trying to persuade and ensnare folks to come join him discuss tithes forever. i'm here man(at least for now), don't i give you satisfaction no more? Righteousness, peace, joy in the Holy Ghost, that's God's kingdom. Not who pays or gives tithe Or who's discouraging people from giving or paying tithes.
BTW, like i said earlier, you don't understand the issues you discuss. Is your new headache about whether tithe is paid or given? It's the same thing. I pay and give my tithes. Abraham(abi na Abram-senseless distraction imo) paid and gave tithes. It's there in Hebrews, stop making a laugh of yourself on the Lord's day.

^
A blind person you've limited it to? Okay, i've settled the deaf and dumb right? A blind man can smile, frown and love. A blind man can have faith in God.
Without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. He that cometh to God MUST believe.
That's the plane on which man operates, and God has given every man/human a measure of faith. It now depends on what you use yours for. Some hide theirs, some believe in wood and iron, some believe/put their faith in science, some in money, some in themselves, some on articles that say there is no God.

KamiLara: @Ninilowo

and when was Matthew 23:23 said?

whilst under the OT or the NT?

before Jesus died or after Jesus died?

Doesn't make it any less important. Are we to discard everything written in the OT, and where does the NT start. Let's know where you take the Bible seriously and where you don't.

Useless attempts. It's like a dog attempting to fly.

Ever heard of satan? He lives in you, and he's also capable of using stuff. Like i told you, God is not a man.

On other thoughts, let me answer it i.e no 3. i know that will probably be your focus. God relates with all humans on the plane of faith. Faith is boundless, it's not subject to language or ethnicity. Just like love, a smile, a frown, fear. They're the same everywhere whether you're in Africa or Antartica.

^
i see you've been tailing me, you should understand context instead of arguing for joblessness sake. What i've said in other words is that all human beings breathe in oxygen, drink water, use fire for their sustenance. There's no special fire or water for each culture. Your no 3 is irrelevant.

i thought i was replying thehomer? Well, since you need someone to talk to, let me help you. atheism must be such a bore, they don't yet have fellowships and sunday services.
1). God made everything good, bite yourself if it helps you. What do you know?
2a). You don't know the potency of sin then.
2b). You young and helpless logicboy use things you didn't create, like your phone, laptop, electricity, yet you expect the Eternal God not to be able to use things He didn't create? What do you take God for? God is not a man.

[quote author=emöfine2]How can one context solely be employed to reveal the truth of an omnipresent being? Is that oyinbo enough for you? [/quote]i wonder where you and jemwit got that definition.
God uses the same oxygen, the same water, the same fire to sustain the whole earth/humanity. i don't see it so odd that He chooses to reveal Himself in one same context to everybody. It's the context of faith in the only true God.

thehomer: It is a simple logical deduction. I see natural disasters as being a consequence of living on a planet such as earth. You Christians claim that your God could have done much better since he has created Heaven. I'm simply wondering why your God couldn't have done a better job the first time around.

How is it logical that natural disasters are a consequence of living on the planet earth? Does that make any sense at all? So earthquakes and volcanic eruptions are consequences of living on a planet earth? For one who claims to have no faith, i think that's a truck load of faith, unfortunately faith in the absurd.
i don't claim that God could have done much better. God created the world good the first time. Now it's corrupted, and the revealed plan(revealed in the Bible that is) is replacement, not repair. Are you qualified to be a part of the replacement, only Jesus can qualify you, simple. It's like wanting to practice medicine, no matter all the knowledge and expertise one may have, you still need the approved medical board to qualify you. It's your headache if you see that as unfair or simply cooperate.

nuclearboy: ^

So your belief is based on your "feeling" that since tax has always been used, tax has to continue being used regardless of divine directives?

Nuclear, you're older than cherry picking my posts na. You've read all i posted on this thread, and i trust you do not suffer from lack of 'retentive' memory? Meanwhile what do we do with all your agberos, we're on question 8 in our deal remember? This place is such a market now, do we wait(ehn Goshen?) Or start a new thread?
BTW, it's a pleasure having Dr. Russel in our midst, although he came on market day.

Did Melchizedek need to be supported by Abraham? Was it not Melchizedek that refreshed/blessed Abraham with bread and wine. Can you explain how/whether Abraham's tithe was for taking care of God's servant? If the tithes were instituted for taking care of God's servants in full time service, is tithing mentioned the new testament passages talking about support for ministers?

Melchisedec did not bless Abraham with bread and wine, i thought i corrected that earlier, i wonder where you guys got that. Blessings is not limited to material things. Giving someone who's coming from war bread is not a big issue. He simply refreshed Abraham, just like our ministers that serve in the tabernacle do every now and then. But Abraham gave him a tenth of all the spoils he got after victory over 5strong kings in mesopotamia. Kings stronger than the King of Sodom and his pals. What do you think the tithes mentioned in the NT was used for? To me, it was for the same purpose, for the service and for their upkeep.

Will you oblige me and give me a summary of the basis on which you tithe on a monthly basis from your salary?

i've already given the basis, it's biblical, reasonable and responsible.
"It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things." (Romans 15:27)
"If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?" (1 Corinthians 9:11).
It's simple logic to figure out the importance of tax/tribute to government. And of consistent giving to full time ministers. I simply look into history and see the way clergy has been efficiently sustained both in and out of Judaism. And i know that i have power to do more than the old testament folks combined together.

@debo
Where is your suggestion na, or you're too shy or proud to give it? What do you suggest we do with the passage? i've already explained how i take the so called once recorded example. i take it in cummulative, not in isolation. i look at Genesis, Leviticus, Numbers, Deut, Malachi, Nehemiah, Matthew, Luke, Timothy, Corinthians, Hebrews, etc and then i make my decisions. I don't cherry pick or isolate, i look at the passage wrt other passages. Abraham's spoils of war was an increase, a gain for him. He may have lost the war but he WON. i give tithe when i win/increase.
"And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark 1:35).
This is the passage i was referring to. The 'popular' quiet time or MORNING DEVOTION is based on this. Bible records something once about Paul using handkerchiefs, people use it forever at 'healing rooms/meetings'. According to your faith, it is to you.

Where this guys go hire agberos from? Lord have mercy, misplaced priorities.

Goshen360: @ Image123, where is your answer? Kindly quote where you answered it. It's like am sleeping,lolz

Cherry picking my answers too? Hmmm, or perhaps awed by our 'new visitor'. Here it is again my friend. You've got to open those eyes nowww.
7b). Did the Bible record Abraham as voluntarily giving tithe? This question is my answer. The Bible simply states that Abraham gave tithes. There's no explicit statement as to ascertain that he gave it voluntarily or was commanded. God was telling a MOG "I have commanded a woman to feed you". That one, we can say with certainty, this one is not stated. A verse like 'and Abraham gave Melchisedec tithe voluntarily/freely' would help your query. Or something like 'and Melchisedec met Abraham, and he gave him tithes as commanded by the Lord'. But we don't see any of the two. It's difficult for me to state 100%.

@kamilara
i did not intend to respond to any except Goshen360 and his questions if you've truly read through the thread, but on 2nd decisions and discretions, i'm replying some other posts, so count yourself 'favoured'.

Does Abraham's Tithe Before the Law Support NT Tithing?

Abraham's tithe simply shows the blind and dishonest antitither that tithing as a practice existed before the Levitical priesthood, AND that tithe can be given out of material other than crops and animal and still be called tithe, or acceptable to God. Unobviously in other scriptures, it has also been shown that crops and animals can be estimated at money/shekel value and the tithe paid in shekels. Also that tithe is of ALL I POSSESS, your increase, AND all things.

@bernimoore
i see that the antitithers are not content, and have no peace as usual. They've gone to call more supporters, they've even put up a poll. Like God operates a democracy. They think there is safety in numbers and that if many nlanders speak against tithe, that would make their story more true. The truth makes you free, not all these looking for fanbase. At Bernimoore, Is the Bible Abraham's or anybody's biography? Would he answer? Does it record everything Abraham did in his life? Does it tell us how he was born, or he was not born since it's not recorded? Did he ever take a pee, or fast, or hold a night vigil?

we are awaiting your response,to clarify the 'cherypicking' scam expecially many people who dont read bible themselves before are watching your answers and let me give you the benefit of doubt,so dont disappoint or dodge the questions,because many are interested,sorry its not personal, cheers. waiting plsssssss.

What is the cherypicking scam, is that some new antitithe theory?


@Goshen

I asked this earlier as Q8. We no dey see road again? Abi you don take wetin somebody tell you make you no dey take again?

i answered you already, are you still sleeping? i even said it's 7b, not question 8. DID THE BIBLE RECORD ABRAHAM GIVING TITHES VOLUNTARILY? Next question?

@kunleOshob

In that case i think we need to go back to Goshen's question you dodge where he was asking why you don't follow Abraham's example of letting the Pharaoh have his wife or his example of sacrificing rams(which muslims still follow today). Are you not the one guilty of cherry picking which example of Abraham to follow?

Why don't you answer the questions raised in the post you quoted, ehn artless dodger? i already answered Goshen, if you or him are not pleased with my answers, that's your headache, not mine. You should then come back humbly and ask for clarifications instead of the usual gangling up and down. We should of course learn from Abraham's actions of lying and deceit and not fall into the same pit. Be wiser than the birds.
Pro 1:17 Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.
Jesus encourages us to learn even from nature, how much more from the scriptures?
Abraham offered sacrifice. To what purpose, that should be your question/quest. for e.g
Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Are we still to offer sacrifices today? Of course, God has not changed. But we are plainly told of the types of sacrifices we are to offer, our bodies as a living sacrifice, thanksgiving these are our sacrifices. In the old testament, they offered animal sacrifices for sin, to be clensed, to be acceptable to God. That's the purpose. Today, we still need sacrificw for sin, for cleansing, and to be acceptable to God. That purpose has not changed. The new thing is that Jesus is that our sacrifice that gives us cleansing and righteousness. And then after, we can offer our sacrifices of praise, bear our cross daily, put our body under and etc. The real purpose never changed. It's similar with tithes, the real purpose never changed. the purpose is to take care of God's servants ESPECIALLY the full-time. Now, you are coming out small small to confess that tithe has been a norm even among heathen religion, thank God you now know/confess that. That same method of sustaining them is what God employed and still employs till forever. He forever receives the tithes, NEVER forget that in your life.

That aside, since when did Abraham become our example as christians? i thought we were meant to follow christ? Let's even assume you are right how does Abraham's one off example translate to mandatory tithing of my regular income every month. why can't i decide following the example of tithing on war spoils if and when i engage in a war and win the war? You see it is quite glaring that it is you and your cohorts that are twisting and cherry picking the bible to suit your greed.

Your gracelessness causes you to miss the basic principle. Jesus is our perfect example, our cornerstone and author of our faith. Nonethe less, there's nothing wrong from learning from others especially those who have trod the road before us and made it. Only self-conceited people would be debating this with me. So you find nothing to learn from the lives of the hundreds of men and women in the Bible and around you, you must be so ignorant.
Tithing is on increase/income/gain. If you don't increase, then do not tithe, no be by force. And if your increase is from legitimate war spoils, you will not go to hell if you tithe of it my dear.

I have never disputed learning from the above practices - what I have asked is simple: If a practice is recorded once, on what basis do you carry it into a monthly, regular practice?Just explain your basis and we can move on.

So what's your suggestion? We should just take in as information? Or we should emulate him once since it was recorded once? i'd like to understand, what do you suggest or feel about the application?
To me, it was written for an example. It's like it math, when you see and understand an example, you can use the style a million times, classwork, homework, test, assignment, forever. That's the purpose of an example. You see a method of healing, and apply it to a dozen people in scores of ages, in different places. There's a verse in Luke ithink, about Jesus rising early to pray. Millions have built a 'quiet time' practice around it and it works for them. Spiritual principles are usually unto you according to your faith.

When you begin to base your thinking on what 'could' have happened (to suit your practices), not what is recorded, you fall into this trap.
For the last time, I have made no assumptions - if we are discussing the bible, we discuss what is written, not what we THINK may have happened.

Yes, that's why i showed from other scripture that tithe could be given in other currency than crop and animal and still be called tithe.Luke and Genesis are part of scripture. We don't give tithe to the Levitical priesthood BTW, we can't limit ourselves to the Levitical order when we have the full and complete Bible. We take all scripture in totality and learn from it, not cherry picking on Deut 14 and co. Bring in Genesis, Matthew, Luke and co and obey the truth. It's like reading about the life and crucifixion of Jesus from only one book of the four gospels. You'd definite miss the full gist. All scripture is profitable, we should not downplay any.

Brother, I am struggling to understand your point here. I have made no assumption - I have simply taken the evidence I was provided of Abraham's single recorded episode of tithing. If you know more than was recorded, please speak up now or stop trying to wriggle around.

Debo, i said you are the ones, not you are the one. Meaning that i was speaking of you and some other people on the thread. When you say Abraham's tithe was a one-off and that Abraham gave tithe just once, that's an assumption. The Bible is not Abraham's biography, we can't/shouldn't make final conclusions that Abraham gave tithe just once. That's why i said you/one may assume so, but not push it.

Misplaced priorities from a misguided people.
Question 8?

What is the meaning of omnipresent? Also can you ask your question in english, emofine?