₦airaland Forum

@garyarnold

In the Old Testament, the firstfruits went to God by taking them to the priests at the Temple. Firstfruits means first of the crop, NOT first part of income.

And what's with the firstfruit seminar, who brought firstfruits into this?

In the New Testament, the firstfruits belong to the farmer.
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) - The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

This is poorly thought out. The husbandman is first partaker of the fruits in any of the testaments, actually that's what Paul was referencing. 1Corinthians 9v7-10

1Corinthians 9:8  Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
The very same principles. God must be first in all things(without God, we can do nothing, man doesn't collect 1st from God in the NT, what's all these you're implying), then you should enjoy the fruits of your labours first, then others. That's God's plan all through scriptures, the same principles. God doesn't change.

In the Old Testament, you gave to God by taking the tithe to the Levites, taking firstfruits to the priests, and through burnt and other sacrificial giving.
In the New Testament, you give to God by giving to the needy/poor

This is wrong. Any of the givings is to God in both testaments, stop trying so hard to seperate Christ, He is the Word and the scriptures speak of Him.

Proverbs 19:17  He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
Is this one also new testament?

In the Old Testament, they had laws to follow. They had no Holy Spirit to lead them.

Gary, did you sincerely write this, or you quoted it from somewhere?

Those who are led by The Spirit need no laws

I'll be very lenient here. Have you heard of THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT of life?

When we work, it is OUR labor. The Biblical tithe came from GOD'S labor, not man's labor. Man cannot make crops and animals. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man makes or earned.

Add this below to your Bible, it will help you if you are truly a follower of Christ.

John 15:5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 3:27  John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

1.  The overwhelming majority of the tithes of the nation were taken, not to the Temple, but to the Levitical cities.

Neh 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.

I knew it all this while, i knew 10% sounded overwhelming to you, but you can boast of giving more than 10%. For your info, the other offerings were greater than 10%, and they still went to the temple. Infact, more than that, the people themselves had to come all the way to Jerusalem. It contained all of them, it's mysterious, perhaps a new miracle, that it can't contain this overwhelming 10%. This scripture you quoted doesn't talk about levitical cities! ah ha? why is devil this wicked? can't you see it?   The cities of our tillage, not the levites' cities or refuge cities, but the people's cities, where they tilled/worked/ploughed. They were saying the opposite of your claims. They brought to the chambers that the levites might have it. It's referring to the Levites in the temple, c38 if in doubt.

Neh 10:38  And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.
He's referring to the high priest, the son of Aaron. He can't possibly be with them in their cities, he's not omnipresent.
Neh 13:12  Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.
This is what Malachi was asking for. All Judah, not some scanty levites.  Everyone, bringing the tithes to the treasuries.
From the chief/high priest to the beggar levite on the street, they were all levites. It's understandable if it sometimes confuses which is which. But it's important that we study all scriptures, so as to RIGHTLY divide the word of truth.  The other levites truly got their portion at home with the poor and orphans, that's another tenth (i'm not going into that now). But we shouldn't mistake it with the tenth that went to the levites in the temple, neither should we mix it with the one that was eaten by the owner(the one kunle loves to quote).  I have to sleep now, i'll add this btw to mix it well.
Rev 1:5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Image123 obviously has run out of ideas or simply hit a wall at this point, how else can one explain his " the Bible is not a biography of Abraham or Jacob" submission? He might just come back with "the Bible is not a biography of our Lord Jesus Christ" next time.

It is pretty HARD to fight for or justify a SCAM.

Pastor JoAgbaje on the other hand is riding the "anointing" gravy train to it's very end as if the rest of us Christians somehow forget to recieve our own anointing from our Lord Jesus Christ who bequeathed the Holy Spirit to us as a Guide.

We pray one day these guys see the light and embrace it fully before it's too late.

Is the Bible a biography of Abraham, ehn ogagim? And you think the light is all about tithe or no tithe? grow up, or better still, wake up.
@gary

The king of Sodom had an original right both to the persons and to the goods, and it would bear a debate whether Abram’s acquired right by rescue would supersede his title and extinguish it; but, to prevent all quarrels, the king of Sodom makes this fair proposal (v. 21).

Am i dreaming here? the king of sodom was defeated, and ran away. The spoils were THE GOODS OF THE 5 KINGS. Sodom's goods couldn't make Abram rich.

We have a completely different and much better relationship with God than Abraham had.

Indeed.

@Zikky

I don’t understand you guys, first you say the tithe pre-date the law then you go quoting Malachi.

The tithe covers every dispensation. Just like love, you find it before, during and after the law. The scripture is One, i can quote any of it freely. It was written to us all, not to some sect somewhere. I quote OT and NT, i don't cut them apart. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable, you're the one needing to make up his mind as it seems scattered in pre and post law eras.

In all instances where tithe was mentioned, it was strictly agri-produce. I am sure there were other professions at the time, or other source of earnings.

But we just spoke about Abraham. ok ok ok, don't get mad at me, i'll quote 'other' instances. SOme have been quoted by you and gary, just that you didn't see them.

2Chronicles 31:5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.
Tithe of all things, not "strictly agric-produce"
Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of ALL that I possess.
The pharisee got ya'll right there. And btw, by the way, we are "sure there were other professions at the time, or other source of earnings". Like been a Pharisee or a scribe or a fisherman, or a carpenter, right?
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Let's assume together that they were just doing overr sabi, right? This stuff is strictly for farmers in the holy land,ba? Not educated scribes

And if you must pay cash, you must pay additional 20% of the tithe, the tithe (in cash) then becomes 12%. See Leviticus 27:30-32 below. So you see you are not doing the right thing.

This must be one of those imaginations. You quoted the passage nowww, let me quote it for you again.Leviticus 27v31
31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it.
That word is 'redeem'. That is if someone doesn't want to give his tithe(which usually came as agric-produce), like maybe he needs it urgently, or it looks so fine he wants to keep it for himself, then he'll give 12% in cash. So again, you've said it without knowing it, the tithe could be given as something different from agric produce.

There is no way a Jewish Christian would have given his tithe to Apostle Paul.

Why should there be a way? The levites were alive and well, and the temple was functioning, with Paul, Peter, John and the team frequenting the place like Jesus. You see, what you don't see is that the tithe is not man's property, it is God's. It wasn't for Peter to collect for himself, neither was it for the famous poor. the tithe was holy.
Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
The bolded is present tense, not 'had' but 'have'. They understood the tithe, they didn't claim that others were thieves and ignorant and that the tithe was scam and fraud. You know where Paul was arrested? In the temple. He brought his offerings, and those of others, he wasn't playing God was speaking to the moon, bedroom or storehouse.

For God's sake, i'm i really expected to go back to all this. Abraham's tithe has been well treated on this forum(i still recall that 'bitta' viaro/nuclear saga). I don't see me going back to all that. Abraham didn't give tithe of someone else's property. He gave of the spoils, he didn't touch Sodom's or Lot's. It was the spoil gotten from the 5dictator kings which God helped him defeat. He owned the spoils
Abram was a giver. He gave his Isaac, even his whole life to God. He doesn't need an introduction. By your reasoning now, we can't assume that he prayed more than was recorded in the Bible. We can't assume that Isaac made any sacrifice or ever gave to the poor. All those people who lived 600 and more years never did anything but begat and died. Only Isaac meditated in his time and so on and forth. Abraham didn't live on logics of struggling on giving his tenth either to Melchizedek(who had enough to even feed Abram) or to the poor slaves of mesopotamia. He didn't say he'll eat his tenth in the presence of God at Mt moriah. He was a better christian than many of us, He didn't even have Genesis to read.

Christians should stand up to false teaching on tithe ke? Is like you don't have something better to stand up against. That's one main issue i've got on tithes, it's almost insignificant in true perspective, but people keep writing papers and long epistles about it, and screaming about it like it's the gate to Heaven or hell. i've tried to avoid tithe issues for awhile now, but seems i'm stuck in this one now, so let's see to it. I hope to get in the mood.
@ogagim
It's film/movie that you saw to comment on. And now that gary has posted a lengthy article, i'm expected to paste my own lengthy article in kind, so that my 'defense'(what a name to describe it) would not be seen as WEAK ba? Sorry, i can't spend that kind of time on tithe or not to tithe.
Just to throw in some comments though, this arguement about 'Abraham not continue his tithing' keeps surfacing with a host of others we've dealt with previously.
Well, the Bible records Abraham's tithe once, BUT doesn't say he only gave tithe once in his life. The Bible is not the biography of abraham, or jacob. The Bible is about Christ, and even all He(Christ) did couldn't have been written down.

garyarnold
I still dey laugh o, seriously. You should be writing nigerian films, you are very imaginative. The church/temple/tabernacle is where the storehouse is. You give your offerings(including tithe) there as unto God not unto men. For truly, He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives.
If you wish to convert your tithe to crops, and you feel the storehouse will use it better that way, please do go ahead. Afterall, we're under grace, aren't we?

Enigma:
^^^ I very much knew you would say that. Question: can anyone overcome by himself?

? Of course not. But in partnership with God, for with God all things are possible.

@Joagbaje
abeg o, no undersight my post 55&56 questions.
Judas fell by transgression, recall? That's what i'm saying. His name was there as Jesus said, but he lost it automatically when He had sin on him. Just like the metal detector analogy. Peter repented. He fell into temptation as he didn't pray, but his faith did not fail, he rose again. Judas hung himself. Peter, in out in. Judas, in out probably out. I'm not the Judge.

@enigma
The promises were/are for the overcomers. He that overcometh. On the apostles believing John 2, i guess you're addressing Jo? I didn't fully get that.

Malachi 3v9 is very clear to the sincere reader. You're free to read it in different versions. It says 'you have robbed me, even this whole nation'. You say 'the priests have robbed God, therefore the whole nation'. I dey laugh o, americana. For reasons known to you, you've decided to keep on cutting God's Word. Who made you a divider? Malachi 1v1. The Word of the Lord to ISRAEL by Malachi. ISRAEL ISRAEL ISRAEL. na wa o. Thank God the Bible is written in english.

Dulcet7:
Does God require [/b]tithes from [b]Christians? Keyword: require?
Please enlighten us.
I thought tithes are a voluntary sacrifice? I thought tithes are like fasting i.e. it is for the person's good but it should not be made compulsory?

Well, i don't think anything is compulsory, in a sense, in the christian faith. But the scripture is saying that our duty is to fear God and keep His commandments. If He has commanded us to tithe, or to love, or not to steal, kill or covet, then we do His bidding. Obedience, i say again, is not compulsory. But it's God's way, it brings down the blessing, and it's better than any sacrifice from us.

Zikkyy:
Lets see what you got

I'll take that to mean that you've never seen scriptures that support what i posted.
Well then, Numbers 18v23,24(i'm on a phone). 'The tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave-offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit'. This offering was a part of the income of the children of Israel. Whether you call it offering i.e heave, or tithe, or a tenth. It's the same thing. And it was the offering of the children of Israel. In another place, He says this whole nation. But what we see now is guys trying to cut it and say it's not the whole nation, but farmers only. And the new one now is that it's not all the farmers, but farmers in Israel.
Well the Bible says they were to give that tenth from their income, their gain, their harvest, what came in, what they reaped. It's all the same thing. The tithe was holy unto God i.e seperate/consecrated to God(Leviticus 27). The remaining 90percent is yours. You can and should spend it on God(it's His technically BTW), yourself and those around you. It's yours, it's in your own power as it were.

Image123:
Don't mind those unbelievers who are being used of the devil to confuse you. Imagine someone saying you shouldn't tithe from your income or profit. Are you to tithe from his?
What God requires is a tithe of what He's blessed you with. From your concern, it's about 10percent of YOUR gains/profit. The remaining 90percent, you can decide to give God, or yourself and the so called poor around you.

Lemme be clear on this, zikky, are you also saying you've never seen scriptures that say/support the above?

The scripture you've pasted above is not the only scripture on tithe and you know it. Stop being such an hypocrite, half truths are as damning as lies. Your lack of understanding of the OT continues to worry you, you need to ask God to aid your understanding instead of all these 'gra gra' and circles you want to start. You agree that tithe pre-dates the law, so stop your cunning 'under the law' talk.

Like i said, i'm not the Judge or Determinant. I dunno, but i don't think they'll be in Heaven. More reason why anyone who hears the gospel today should repent and believe, then his/her kids can get to hear the gospel in the next generation if there'll be one.

nairapower:
I appreciate all contributions so far, but it seem I am getting confused the more as I am still in the dark on this issue from contradicting responses so far.

Don't mind those unbelievers who are being used of the devil to confuse you. Imagine someone saying you shouldn't tithe from your income or profit. Are you to tithe from his?
What God requires is a tithe of what He's blessed you with. From your concern, it's about 10percent of YOUR gains/profit. The remaining 90percent, you can decide to give God, or yourself and the so called poor around you.

@nuella
Except a man be born again, not except a baby be born again. I'm not the Judge or Determinant, but i think babies can enter the kingdom without being born again regardless of who their parents are. But as they become accountable, they'll need to be born again, as they'll stand before God to give account if they become accountable.

^stop spamming the forum with the above lies. If you have no biblical backing for your daydreams, keep quiet and let others be. Thank God you guys now say there're different types of tithe, i guess we're making some progress.

Confused businessman? I hope so, because i don't have time to be advising hypocrites.
For a businessman, the tithe is about ten percent of YOUR profit. By your profit, I mean YOUR profit. Not your employees'. You don't go and give tithes when you've refused to pay your workers. You give it out of the money and income that truly belongs to you. And you can give it when it's available i.e it could be daily, weekly, monthly, yearly etc. It still amounts to the same thing. Don't make an issue of it, God also looks at your heart in whatever you do. Have clean hands and pure heart, and be faithful.

A much neglected beauty in the good news is that God is near to everyone, EVERYone as affirmed in Acts 17.

Hey, plus, who are the two or three people whose names were 'blotted out in the Bible'? And what's with the 'ONLY' condition you put in front, are they not enough?

Blotting out is not for every wrong doing but for someone who has lost his place. If names are wiped off, it is damnation forever

Well maybe God later told you the above personally, but it's definitely not in that Exodus passage that you quoted.
So to the 'born again thing'. In a SHORT and simple layman language that can be understood by people like me, what does it mean to be born again? Is there a difference between having eternal life and been born again? Then, can someone commit sin and still have eternal life/be in the book of life despite the sin?

^you don't even seem to know the meaning or context of the word 'edify'. It continues to be that unbelievers know so little of what they boast like they were authorities in, like they've tasted all that and there's nothing to it. Meanwhile, na so so hearsay.

@Joagbaje
Will look into your 'born again point' soon, but on this writing of names thing, let's try to understand it better. It seems from the passage OLAADEGBU quoted(Luke 10) and other scriptures that that list/book is not 'gbogbo ero'. It's a book for special people, righteous people, children of God. Like OLAADEGBU said, there'll be nothing to 'rejoice' about if it were not a special list. Hebrews 12v23(the CHURCH which are written in Heaven), Luke 10v20(your names are written in Heaven), Psalm 69v28(book of the living/life, written with the RIGHTEOUS), Philippians 4v3(those women, Clement also, and other fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life). This is a list one'll want to pray to God to add his/her name to be double-sure. So it's not erroneous to pray for it, not everyone has right to it.

@enigma
At your point 1,2,3 perhaps this is what you're looking for
Exodus 32v33. And the LORD said unto Moses, WHOSOEVER hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
He said any one who sins gets deleted. Dunno why Joagbaje says that it's only any one who dies in sin. I don't think God is fickle, depends on the perspective you're looking from. It seems it's man who is so fickle. It's just like a metal detector kind of door(if you pick up anything metallic, it detects and will not open. Drop the metal and it immediately opens). I don't think that the door is 'fickle', but the individual picking and dropping metals.
To point 4, of course God knows His mind. The unfortunate thing is our minds, very deceitful. What God's thinking and planning is often times far different from what we're thinking and planning. Jesus says abide, but if a man does not abide, he is cast forth. We are truly created in God's image, not as zombies, but with ability to CHOOSE.

This is ridiculous and IGNORANT. Christ's command is to go into all the world. People are going into all the world, into the villages and cities, on the internet and in the buses. You don't have to use every opportunity to say rubbish. How many 'poor countries' have you gone to before asking this questions. How many churches have you ASKED/researched on their missionary/evangelism work?

OLAADEGBU:
Hi image123, I hope all is well?

Oga mi, all is very well o, hope that's safe to say before i'm dubbed as contrary to 'what Jesus prophesied'.lol

Jo
Is it not 'common sense' that if God deletes names, He must have written them in the first instance? You say you've not found A SCRIPTURE where God writes names. You just quoted one! The Exodus 32 passage says 'thy book which THOU HAST WRITTEN'.
BTW, what makes God to delete names? If the person repents again afterward, does the name get written again?

12:19pm January 15, 30 C.E maybe. Wetin be your business, abi you wan organise gift for their buyday?

January 11 Proverbs 11v16


A gracious woman retaineth honour: and strong men retain riches

Who can find a virtuous woman? Her price is FAR ABOVE. A virtuous woman is a gracious woman. A woman, or more aptly put, a human, full of grace. Thank God for grace. Grace is available for everyone of us. It has been paid for, provided, propitiated by Christ Jesus for us. He tasted death for every man, every human, every woman. We can come boldly before the throne of grace and find grace any TIME. We have no excuse therefore.
It makes one uneasy, when people magnify how hard it is to live a gracious, righteous life. Virtue and grace must be celebrated again. Chastity must be ingrained in us anew. The society has left many bereft of godly values. They don't want to praise a woman that fears God. But we are coming back to the Word of God. The Word of God is life, abundant life, a radiant life. We will lift up godly values. Chastity is a godly value. Marriage is honourable in ALL and the bed undefiled. A gracious woman retains this honour. She will keep her chastity. She will preserve her virginity. And if she is married, she will preserve her home, her marriage.
Marriage is honourable, and a gracious woman retains honour. She holds on to it, she recollects it. She is not opting for divorce. She recollects her marriage, she builds her house, she starts afresh, she makes things work. That's godliness, making things work. A gracious woman is strong, she will retain.
Reader, keep your virtue. Do not get polluted, this is the proof of God's grace in your life. A gracious woman and human retains honour and wealth. They are not spendthrifts. They are not wasters neither are they stingy. You too can ask for grace and strength from God to be retentive, honourable and rich.

January 11 Proverbs 11v16


A gracious woman retaineth honour: and strong men retain riches

Who can find a virtuous woman? Her price is FAR ABOVE. A virtuous woman is a gracious woman. A woman, or more aptly put, a human, full of grace. Thank God for grace. Grace is available for everyone of us. It has been paid for, provided, propitiated by Christ Jesus for us. He tasted death for every man, every human, every woman. We can come boldly before the throne of grace and find grace any TIME. We have no excuse therefore.
It makes one uneasy, when people magnify how hard it is to live a gracious, righteous life. Virtue and grace must be celebrated again. Chastity must be ingrained in us anew. The society has left many bereft of godly values. They don't want to praise a woman that fears God. But we are coming back to the Word of God. The Word of God is life, abundant life, a radiant life. We will lift up godly values. Chastity is a godly value. Marriage is honourable in ALL and the bed undefiled. A gracious woman retains this honour. She will keep her chastity. She will preserve her virginity. And if she is married, she will preserve her home, her marriage.

e36991:
@^^^

Bomb scare ke?

I'll be more worried about get wacked, slapped and/or whipped with jackets a-la Benny Hinn style 

Be not afraid, only believe.
LOL

What's with calling for my guy, Arshavin head every time he doesn't score or asSist? He's already proven himself and doesn't need to do that in every match. Not every player does that. Fans and their nonsense sha. The next match fabregas has a bad game, we'll still hear about barcelona and fab's heart. Fickle people, go and criticise your coach, he needs the criticisms not the venerations he gets. Arshavin is my guy and he's quality, a scarce feature at ya club of wannabes and shooting stars.

Mutiny ke? abi bomb scare?