₦airaland Forum

@Image.
Ok. I get it, you were talking of 'freewill'and foreknowledge. Pray then, where does that leave predestination?

Sorry i didn't mean to leave out predestination. The point i was bringing out was that they(freewill and foreknowledge) were both/all(as we include predestination) included in scriptures. Scriptures mention the three, and we should not ignore any one for the other, or contradict one against the other. But rather, we should focus on rightly dividing the truth of God's Word.

@5solas
I'd loved to have much chance to reply and quote scripture passages but it seems i might keep postponing, so permit me to reply in bits, ouch for me though.
I asked earlier if those your 5 or 4criteria listed for the ' secret will' of God were biblical? Jesus's whole life was prophecied, how secret is that as compared to Joseph's. Psalm 81 passage i quoted showed us what God planned that was not, or what's the 'should' doing there in that passage?

Lol @ our brother Chukwudi already has it. mediator proxy

Actually, the quality of the message should be in the leading of the Spirit, and Stephen led by the Holy Spirit gave a message that cut the heart of the listeners. But unfortunately, they didn't run down the aisle in repentance, or raise hands and say 'a sinner's prayer'. They cried out loudly, and stopped their ears. Here was the door of salvation opened and these people went with a unanimous NO. The passage says that they ran with one accord, in unity. It's like the people of the tower of Babel, united against God, united for failure. Man is created social, and ye feel more secure with others. But faith in God is not just feeling.
Many times, we make decisions in accord with others, not with scriptures, not with God. We look for how many pastors will preach for it, or against it. We're looking for how many replies ye would get in its favour on our threads. We act as if God will have to bend and change His mind if all of us take this other way! Oh sorry, you've already lost the opinion polls if that's all. Uncountable company of angels and saints already voted for God and scriptures! We say "God obviously cannot/will not punish all these people for this small thing".
But we can change. We can come over and stand with Stephen. And perhaps, as we stand in faith not necessarily in numbers, we will see what Stephen saw. Stephen saw victory, Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

February 8 Acts 7v57

Then they cried out with a
loud voice, and stopped their
ears, and ran upon him with
one accord

Stephen was a man who was full of the Holy Ghost, and also full of faith and power. He spake with irresistible wisdom and spirit. He had what we might call 'charisma' today. There was so much faith in him that he turned every incidence into a revival meeting, a victorious crusade against the hosts of satan, sin and sickness. When Stephen was to serve tables, you could expect great wonders and miracles.
I see many people today, who live like mere men until they get on the pulpit before the thousands of appreciative audience. But not Stephen! Stephen could look like an angel whether while serving some neglected widow, or before the council. Stephen is a victor, an overcomer. Do you know preachers who seem to tone down the message in front of the high priest, the elders of the land, the scribes, journalists and media? You may be quick to say "I know, I know!" But can ye assuredly say that our own message is consistent before the rich or poor, before few or many? Do you even have/preach a message, any message? It's quite easy to spot out motes and beams in others.

Hahaha, a-fans neva shange. Why blame your boys or the referee? If anything should be blamed, it's the coach. Told ya you needed to loan a coach?
What's the worry about retaining a 4-goal lead? If me memoir serve me well, he can't retain 10point leads, he can't retain the league title or any cup for that matter, he can't retain players. Dump the tension, move forward, and don't insult moi.

I'll reply later in the day, God willing.

^
It is 'awka' 'Awka' 'AWKA' , NOT Akwa. Did you not go to school? i think school of healin is still on o, abi pastor Jo?

@OLAADEGBU
Released for a season, right? a pity huxley didn't understand the biblical undertone in the phrase. He thinks you meant that he was coming from PRISON. Sinners and their sorry selves sha.
Huxley, your question should be "Do I know God at all?". This of course should be a rhetorical question because you don't know Him. so where really have you been all this while? me curious

How can someone who thinks Awka=Akwa Ibom refer to any other as ignorant or dim witted?

HUXLEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
where has your sorry self been all this WHILE?

Young Gunners!!!
I'm guessing this is the Quadruple?

Jesus promised, that even the terror to hell cannot prevail against the church, the body of Christ. The old testament believers also experienced something similar. The more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. Multiplied and grew! Until the enemies are grieved, you will multiply and grow. The devil will be ashamed of you.
When problems come, when mountains stand in your way, it is not a time to weep, or get depressed. It's a time to cause grief in hell. If you ever get sick, or afflicted, or lose something, even someone. Child of God, do not sorrow/panic like others. Multiply and grow instead, the grace of God is sufficient. Turn your stumbling block to a stepping stone. If it seems too big (though nothing really is too big not to be moved with God), simply walk around it and continue on the road of victory. Victory is for you.

February 1 Exodus1v12

12. But the more they afflicted, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.

You may have heard of the early christians, you also must have heard of human rights. The early christians were not entertained with such pleasantaries as 'human rights'. They were heavily persecuted and tormented. It didn't matter to the world whether the christians were old or young. Violent death and torture were like the name of the game. Talk of aged men being thrown into boiling oil. You know that the aged need the care of the young, but aged christians were banished into isolation. A ninety-four year old apostle was clubbed on the head to death. Some were stoned, some crucified, some hanged on trees, some were burnt alive, some thrown as food to wild animals. But the church did not die! It continued to grow through it all.

@5solas
i just read your replies, no qualms do take your time. Please do not infer from my post that the difference between the believer alive today and the one dead is merely a frustration of grace. Not at all. My focus wasn't even believers, believers don't frustrate God's grace as often as unbelievers. It may be in God's plan for a person to have died last year, that's accepted. But i'm also saying God may have had better plans of life for a person but he might have become careless/carefree/disobedient/not watchful causing him to be exposed.(just chipped this in, hope it doesn't take the 'focus' off the previous)

What can we do in response to this love? We should strive not to break it. Have you ever heard of haters/enemies having heart breaks? No, it is lovers! Lovers have heart breaks. It is in the same way, even more, that we sometimes grieve God. If you've ever suffered a heart break or seen someone do suffer, you'll be most careful with your relationship with God, for we are created in His image. Let us respond to His love with our love, and our life for His amazing love demands our all. Not just your inside or heart, but everything (spirit, soul and BODY). Give God your love.

January 31 Jeremiah 31v3

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Love is beautiful. Many of us have experienced one form of love or the other. The love of a spouse, the love of a friend, the love of a child. At least, let's say 'one form' of love, for there are different kinds of love.
We are not expected to love everything, neither do we love in the same degree. For instance, We are not to love the world, and We cannot love God and our friend the same way/degree. We may even be daily involved with somethings and yet not love them, for the love of money is the root of evil. So we see different forms of love, and We also know that GOD is love. He knows more about love than you do. He says "I have loved you with an everlasting love". God SO loved us that He gave. It is an eternal commitment, He wants us to have eternal life, His Life!

@5solas
Thanks for your patience.

The OP is on grace,yes. The grace of God is about what God does (the works of God) and this is opposed to what Man does (the works of Man).When you talk of the works of Man you are also talking of their will/’freewill’. Related to any discourse on grace and ‘freewill’ are foreknowledge and predestination.

Okay, i'm clearer on the above

''Why did you get to see year 2011 and the other person didnt?''.

You should also give your take on it.

Errrrrrrrrh, i thought i did? Here " 'why did you see the new year?' answer is most definitely by God's grace. But we must not forget those who are able to frustrate that grace and go 'before their time'"

I brought in foreknowledge,not knowledge; just so we are focused.

i classified foreknowledge under knowledge. no probs, i understand you though.

As at the time God was sending Jonah to Nineveh, did He know to a certainty that He would not destroy Nineveh after Jonah would have given His message to them?

you know more about secret wills than i do sir. Here is the revealed one below

Jonah 3:2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
Jon 3:3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
Jon 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

The formulators of ‘freewill’ were quick and ready to emphasize ‘freewill’ and to de-emphasize foreknowledge and predestination just so they could make God ‘fair’.

I'd emphasise the two because they're both in the scriptures. Supporting one only of the two will not be complete truth, and may be a denial of the whole scripture and mind of God.

Is it not ironic seeing that the latter are biblical terms while the former is not?

i see the two i.e 'foreknowledge' and 'free will' in the scriptures, not just one. Here are some examples and demonstration of free will.
Leviticus 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Exodus 25:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering.
Ezra 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Matthew 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son.
Mat 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

However, I do not see it in the passage you quoted above.

Psalm 81:13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!
Psa 81:14 I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries.
Psa 81:15 The haters of the LORD should have submitted themselves unto him: but their time should have endured forever.
Psa 81:16 He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.
The 'should' is what God wanted to do(secret to the israelites) for the Israelites who came out of egypt, but because of their deeds,His plan wasn't fulfilled. he planned to give them not just water, but honey out of the rock.

The very nature of His secret will is that:
1. it is unknown to us
2. not enjoined on us
3. always fulfilled
4. known for the fact that it has happened.

More on this later, if God permits!

is this outlined criteria in the bible? if yes, where please.

@nuel
I did hope that you would see the fault in your actions but you'd rather be pompous and allow pride rule, may God deliver you.

I am an adult, i can talk about anything including sex , not pretenders like you guys. Brown trouser is the uniform of so called holy pretenders. I have them in my office, stinginess no go let them buy soap.

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
You don't need to talk dirty to make a point. You should learn to be FIRST a believer, before an adult, you're not the first adult plus you're in the religion section of a public forum. And there you go again calling me a 'pretender'. False accusation is not a fruit of the Spirit of God. If you have any bile against someone/people in your office, kindly settle it there. I mean, it's unfair talking bad about someone on the internet and they're not even aware! If you think they need soap, what are you doing about it asides telling every other person except them? If you can afford to get your colleagues/subordinates (as it appears) new trousers, maybe you should go ahead, instead of all this talk about catching them in brown trousers and candles doing self service. And i hope you're not making up this stories, liars are not children of God.

See as our holy brother turn am upside down. you that claim holy directed it to me. What do you know about me, amebo.

You keep referring to me as 'holy' and as 'holier than you'. I've yet to make this claims. If my words/actions judge/convict you, it's not a fault of mine. What you need to do is repent and believe the good news. Do you have a problem with one being holy? i think 'amebo' is talking bad about someone at their back,no?

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
I'll say sorry to God and to those men in brown in your office if i were you, it's called 'restitution' in Kingdom parlance.

My point remains no church is holier than another, if yours is call the name, its that simple.

This is not about your point and their point, why don't you get it? What we're asking for is a demonstration of righteousness, whatever doctrine you may cling to. If like Joagbaje said earlier, your foundation of salvation is great and others are faulty, let;s see it in your fruits. Let light shine, not 'mistakes' as is commonly reported amongst your ilk. You're asking nuclearboy to show you where you've sinned? we've shown you, but it seems your intent is not to repent and be white than snow, but to show all that we're all dirty by mudslinging. Stop asking for my white robe so you can stain it, seek to be clean yourself through Christ.


@Joagbaje

Has it reached this level of quarrel, in the name of Jesus When did the apostles get born again? Pls let's get back to topic.

How convenient of you? get back to topic, that's the escape right? i thought the OP had been answered. It;s your answers we're awaiting. i know you'll ask as usual, "what questions?" delay tactics, thumbs up and be good this week.
@newmi
When did the Apostles Become Born Again? And i do hope you are born again?

Hahahahahaha
Seriously, i dey laugh ooo, too bad. What's the name of potiphar's wife?

I'd rather have Jesus than all of this world's wealth. If you want to follow Jesus, take up your cross and follow Him.

@nuclear
You too wonder se? i mean, she's even telling us the colour of the trouser and the type of shirt. Out of the abundance of the heart i think. And i hope somehow that she sees the fault in this and repents.

WHERE IS JOAGBAJE WHEN YOU NEED HIM!
@nuella
I said you referred to me as brother and pretender, your defense is that it's 'pretenders' not pretender.
What's with your description of 'holier than yous', are they overwhelming you? I don't remember mentioning them, or are you one of them, because you seem to have a lot to say on that issue. A christain sister moving around in the mornings, catching SEVERAL males in brown trousers self-servicing using candles. What's all these? Abeg no corrupt people for here o, this is the religion section haha? You should be queried in church for this despicable hobby. This must be one of the downsides of females frequenting male residents in the guise of visitation. Repent o nuel.

Have arsenal fans forgotten so soon that they face Birmingham in the final? I thought it was public news that's the club that has signalled arsenal's trophylessness in the last 2,3seasons. Don't count your cups before they're won.

And Jo, why you keep accusing me of abusive and vile words is baffling. I've asked before and will ask again that you quote where i abused you or anyone for that matter. Lying/false accusation is pharisaic, you should not assume it as one of the gifts of the Spirit. And quit judging me, ahn?
You say i should learn from your pastor? i rarely get to listen to him but i clearly recall when he spent a lot of money on different t.v stations to tongue lash chris okotie. plus i noticed he was condescending on 'some folks' i.e others in his teachingS. (Can't really conclude on that anyway, i've not studied him, just observed it). If you have the correct doctrine of salvation, let's see it instead of your just shouting about it. Or what exactly were you saved from?

@Joagbaje
As usual, you're quick to assume this is about church X versus your church. I don't recall mentioning your church or any other in this discussion. I've been talking about people who teach your kind of 'foundation', maybe you'd really have preferred wof, and i talked about OLA and his types but all you could imagine was an attack on OLA's denomination. Enigma understood what we've been saying, you see him mentioning aletheia, inesQor and co.
And you need to check up on the meaning of 'assertion'. I said it is commonly REPORTED and i've been twice sorry to say that. But we see it in the news, on the net, even among NL members. Read other sections of nl and observe some shameful contributions by professing members of cec,it's not rampant with other denominations, why? Jesus says we know them by their fruits, you say it's by their doctrine. No be your 1st time.

@5solas
I saw your reply since yesterday. I'll like to back my replies with scriptures, so please give me till like 2days to full reply, thanks.
On secret wills, do read Psalm 81v13-16. It seems to speak of a secret will frustrated. What i'm establishing from the scriptures is that God's will/plan can in some cases be followed/disobeyed by man. He made us with that feature it seems.

i fink 'trekkie' has said it all. Great and comprehensive, wish i could do that.

How one refers to me as 'bro' and 'pretender' in the same line astonishes me ehn nuella and Jo. Hear again. If you claim that others have a faulty foundation and therefore weak structure, then i'm asking. You who supposedly has the 'right' foundation and doctrine of salvation, why is it COMMONLY REPORTED that (sorry to say) most members of this your belief struggle with BASE sins like immorality, lasciviousness, idolatry, emulations, variance, heresies and such like? Why is it so common among you. Meanwhile, others with a differing foundation have passed that class, as it were. Where are your fruits, i ask.

^The pure heart referred to involves a definition from God's perspective. Jesus said that the pure in heart will see God. This purity is God's nature and only Him can effect it in the human heart.

@Joagbaje and co
What's the point claiming the correct knowledge of the doctrine of salvation when we don't see the salvation in you(your members esp)? You're so right, so sure, your theology makes sense, yet no fruit of genuine salvation. What we see is struggling with base sins like immorality, lasciviousness, strife, variance and such like and hiding it under the guise of mistake. Meanwhile those you claim not to have this special revelations have passed this stage. Jesus said by their fruits you will know them. The fruits are speaking daily.