₦airaland Forum

I’m already telling people not to go close to polytechnic oo; else they will suffer like me; they will be under employed and earn little or no respect from the society that attach significance to paper qualifications.

Laffsssssssss Bros u no like niger-delta style? Any way we don’t need to take govt officials hostage.

All these na story. Let government enact a law to back it up, else it won’t be last long. Mere pronouncement is not enough. What about the private sector? How are they going to do with them?

Honestly mere pronouncement can never change things. The only way out of this is to enact a law. And secondly govt should show preference for Technical education by employing more polytechnic graduates than university graduates in its ministries; else wahala go dey oo!

Dakmanzero, FORTRAN was developed when portability was not a priority; yes, agreed. But don’t forget that the language has undergone series of revisions and reviews, and portability was one of the areas that was touched or looked into. As I’m talking right now Fortran 90/95 and Fortran 2003 are portable versions of FORTRAN.

Look 4 dis book, its on the internet. OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING VIA FORTRAN 90/95 BY Ed Akin, Rice university, Houston

You guys are just wasting ur time on this issue. It’s obvious that Nigerian graduates are half-baked. 2 reasons are responsible for that.
1.The old lecturers and professors who only concentrate on those old stuff they know simply because they refuse to learn modern things or get themselves equipped by not going to the internet.
2.The student themselves who refuse to sit down and read; or those who read, read old stuff simply because they follow what the lecturers and professors taught them. Most students dont go out to browse the internet.

Most lecturers don’t encourage students to do research, because you may run into trouble with the lecturer who may be thinking that u,re trying to bring him down with the new techniques u,ve learnt that he does nt know about.

I had that bitter experience when I was in the polytechnic here in Nigeria studying for my HND; the lecture was angry with me simply because I discovered a new and better technique to solve a problem in Operational Research and brought it up during lecture session. Imagine, the lecturer told everybody in the class to follow exactly what he has taught us and nothing else. I was punished for discovering a new technique on the internet; he gave me a very low score in my cont. assessment and even threatened to give me a carry-over.

Please help us advice Nigerian government to scrap polytechnics or convert them to what they want (universities).

Dakmanzero, I disagree with you. OO FORTRAN and OO COBOL are portable; at least to some extent.

DAKMANZERO, I think you’ll have to agree with what clocky and bossman have said. I have a question also to ask: What makes FORTRAN and COBOL not to be portable? What do you mean by portability of a programming language? It may be different from the what I know.

Bros, we shall get there soon, if only people with HND will stop going in for BA/BSc programs after their HND; and continue advancing to do PGD& MSc. To me it makes the whole thing look as if the polytechnic system of education is insignificant or obsolete. If it is insignificant and obsolete, then Nigerians should be told so that people don’t waste their precious time and years going in there at the beginning.

Bossman, well said. But I wonder why other guys are still arguing about FORTRAN and COBOL still being used by big companies; may be you will need to give them names of these companies for them to believe. But as for me I believe its still being used, else no body or company would be talking about it, not to talk of using it. Some schools in America and Europe still teach students these languages, its not only in Nigeria as some one had earlier said.

Bossman, thanx a lot for ur contributions. I’m now convinced that people and companies still make use of COBOL and FORTRAN. But why is it that a lot of guys think or believe they are old-fashioned despite the upgrade versions that are as good as the newer languages especially in the area of OO programming? Is it because they are difficult to program with? I can see a lot of guys here are condemning them. Well. I’m into VB programming, but still like the techniques of QBASIC, FORTRAN, PASCAL and COBOL languages. At least learning and knowing them is helping me in my VB programming, so I don’t think it’s a waste learning how to use them. I still write a lot of custom statistical and numerical analysis programs, and I find FORTRAN very suitable to do that. I will still welcome your opinion if you have an alternative programming language to suggest for me.

Have u guys not seen this before?

News
Forpedo Includes Run-Time Polymorphism
Forpedo has been upgraded to include support for run-time polymorphism, as described here. Run-time polymorphism is an important part of Object-Oriented Programming (OOP), and is supported in Fortran 2003, but not earlier standards. With Forpedo you can mimic run-time polymorphism in Fortran 90/95 programs, making the transition to Fortran 2003 easier when compilers of that standard become readily available.

Don't you guys think that the latest version of FORTRAN is fully objected oriented now?

my guy, u can still go ahead and start ur HND while pursuing ur DE. Dont sit down at home wasting ur time. Some of my friends did that, and when they got DE some of them left the polytechnic finally while those that got admitted into the university that was close to the polytechnic did the 2 programs simultaneously,i mean they ran the HND alonside Bsc and they hold both certificates today; HND and Bsc. i know it will be very expensive and stressful but u will smile at d end of d day. Take care.

Have u seen the recent vacancy advert for graduate trainees and other professionals into NNPC? This time around it's HND/Bsc. Thank God oo. OBJ's pronouncement is begining to manifest. I pray it continues like that. Come to look at it, keep sentiments away; most HND holders are very skillful and sharp. I could remember university undergraduates coming to meet me to teach them maths, statistics, QT, programming and data processing when i was a polytechnic undergraduate. Why the discrimination if they would want to learn or tap from HND holders? Polytechnic education should have been the best system of education for a growing nation like nigeria, but the country's policy on education have made it a crime to obtain HND. Thatz why we are still where we are 2day, the 1960,s of Europe.

my brother, thatz it o! U,ve said it. UME these days can even make u get hypertension at a very young age. While in the polytechnic still think of going for a direct entry in the university; thatz my own advice to people who go into polytechnics now. I did not realise that in time sha. My classmates who went into 200 levels in the universities, though i got my HND b4 they graduated, they are better employed than myself now. One of them works in the same company with me, i joined the company b4 him but he's a big boy there now by virtue of his BSc; while me i,m still far far far behind him in the company.

Thanx guys. Its just dat some are saying its ok to learn it while others are saying its not ok. Which ever sha i think its still ok 4 one to ve a little knowledge on fortran and COBOL too. I,m already into visual Basic programming. Still need your advice.

Sorry i did not state my area of interest. My area of interest is developing scientific, engineering and mathematical applications. Do you think FORTRAN will be suitable?

pls i need to know if FORTRAN and COBOL languages are archiac and obsolete languages. I discovered recently on the internet that there is an object-oriented version of FORTRAN now and a reviewed COBOL version. Pls i need to hear from u guys if these languages are still useful to us. Do people really use them to develop applications presently, compared to the more recent languages available?

Some one was describing FORTRAN and COBOL programming languages as archaic and obsolete; but i later on discovered on the internet that people still make use of them, and they have been undergoing reviews to meet up with 5th generation programming languages.

I discovered on the internet that there is an object-oriented FORTRAN version that allows you program just like visual basic. Please I need to hear from you guys about this object-oriented FORTRAN version and the latest COBOL version.

HND-holder, i ve read that article b4, and i was very impressed. Most pple with HND certificates easily give up when they jam or come in contact with discrimination. I love dat guy. He has been able to prove to the whole world that nigerian HND certificate is superb. But the issue on ground is that would u advice anyone to go in and do HND in nigeria, considering the discrimination on HND certificate holders? To me oo! until things change for better for HND holders i will not advice any one to go to any polytechnic in nigeria. The truth is that the govt don't even like the existence of such institutions. That is why they dont pump in money or invest money there. They dont even patronize HND graduates at all. Goto govt parastatals and see what is happening there; even if they take HND holders they place them on level 07. Compare what the govt gives to even the smallest university in nigeria annually; 2wice what they give to schools like yabatech and kadpoly joined together. We dont need to be told again that they don't like the idea of having HND alongside Bsc in nigeria. Lets not make others to suffer or pass thru what we are passing thru. If things improve or become better for HND holders, then no wahala we can advice pple to start patronizing polytechnics else let pple go to universities. Imagine pple with BA and Bsc from some mushroom universities in nigeria even have more recognition than pple who hold HND certificates from the best polytechnics in africa based here in nigeria. I ve been a victim of discrimination in nigeria as a result of holding HND certificate, i,m talking from experience.

I think with the discrimination in nigeria on HND holders i will advice holders of ND to rush into 100 or 200 levels in the university and get a Degree at the end of the day; because that is what even the government (Fed, state and local)recognizes. I hold ND and HND too, but i was employed by one of the nigerian companies and given the same level as those with ND and NCE; not as a graduate o!. While those with university degrees get rewarded for their incompetencies with higher salaries those with HND get rewarded with extra work because they work like jaki. Please o! any body, if u have a way of getting a university degree go get it and save ur self the stress and wahala i,m passing thru. HND should only be patronised when govt realises the importance of graduates of polytechnics and begin to pay them even better than uni graduates, else go into any university whether fed, state, local or private and get a university degree. After all that is what the country and govt of nigeria wants. They only tell people stories of how relevant HND holders are, but have never done anything to better or improve the lives of poly graduates. Go to govt parastatals like NNPC you will know that the govt are decieving us. They dont employ HND holders, they dont give scholarship to polytechnic undergraduates and all that. Its a pity!!

niterider, what kind of Diploma are u talking about? Ordinary diploma or higher diploma or postgraduate diploma? which?

Mrlawng, why should we be comparing an auto-mechanic with an engineer? We should be comparing a mechanic with a technician. U,re a medical student, thank God; we will run to u one day 4 medical attention; I know u,ll welcome me. We argue to learn from each other. I want u to know that without the mechanics, technicians and technologist no engineering design or job will be completed. That is not to say that engineers cannot implement or to say that technologist cannot design. They can play each others role, but to some extent. There is a limit. What I’m saying is I ve seen engineers that work in workshops and they are very skillful; I have also seen technologist that carry out engineering designs even more than some engineers. At any level, poly graduates and university graduates need each other. we should not place one above the other when we know that they actually need each other for things to work well. The ultimate truth as some one just said is not the school attended or the degree certificate acquired that makes u better, but what comes out of u as a graduate . U should be able to deliver well. A uni graduate that knows nothing should not be employed becos he attended a uni at the expense of a poly graduate.What matters most is; who can do the job well? Who can deliver well?.Not who has a uni degree or a poly HND. After all we all read books in both schools. Thanx and remain blessed.

Taiwotee and Oyesema, may both of u live long. I love ur unbias contributions to this debate. We both need each other. University system of education is a bit different from that of the polytechnic, and vice versa in nigeria. We all know that Uni guys do the science of engineering while poly guys do the technology of engineering. And as we also know science and technology must always move and work together to achieve any set goal or objective. The designer must design for the implementer to implement. That is not to say that the designer cannot implement and the implementer cannot design; they can both do each other's job, but they have limits. I have seen university graduates that are not well knowledged in their various fields as well as poly graduates that are not well knowledged in their fields too. Uni and poly need each other to move Nigeria forward. Thanx for ur contributions. Pls we need people like u 2 to help us educate nigerians and employers in nigeria that the 2 are equivalent and that who ever that can deliver best should be given the job and not becos he or she holds HND or Bsc. Remain blessed.

Hotstepper, u,re talking. I really like ur contributions to this issue. There has never been any trace of bias from ur contributions. i wish employers and people in nigeria will stand up and reason like you. Remain blessed and pls help us tell nigerians that polytechnic graduates are needed too for the country to move forward.

Mrlawng, My friend's younger brother is an auto-mechanic, his name is Adeniyi Sunday in Festac town, Lagos. He has assembled a car before with locally built materials designed by him and carved out using lathe machines available. What have u done as an Engineer? Shame on you, an ordinary auto-mechanic knows engineering better than you with your BEng or MEng.

Hotstepper, i understand you very well, but the issue is, canada has its own policies different from that of nigeria. HND certificates in most countries like canada, UK and scotland to mention a few are inferior to degree certificates. Reason is becos u spent just 2 yrs to obtain HND while 3 yrs is spent to obtain a Bsc or BA. HND in UK as i know is taken to be the first 2 years or part 2 of a Degree program. After your HND in UK you can go in to level 2 or 3 to top up and obtain a BSc. In nigeria u do HND after ur ND with one year IT experience inbetween making everything 5 years. You cannot tell me that while doing a 4 academic year program in the polytechnic in nigeria (keep the 1 year IT aside) HND graduates end up not learning as much as their counterparts in the universities running 4 year Bsc or BA programs. I have seen the course curriculum for HND and BSc in STATISTICS in nigeria, The HND has more courses and topics in statistics to cover than the Bsc. I hold HND in STATISTICS and one of my lecturers (a part time lecture from a university) who was a PhD holder then told us clearly that most of those topics in our HND curriculum were not in the same Bsc curriculum in the university. That he did most of those courses/topics in his MSc program. please i'm still not convinced that Bsc graduates know better than Hnd graduates. Check out accountancy too, the difference is always clear when they enroll and sit for ICAN exams. Most HND graduates clear ICAN without tears.

mrlawng, some mechanics are far far better than many mechanical engineers in nigeria. If u,re an engineer we have not heard your name before, because u have never done anything good to improve the lives of nigerians; but we have heard names of so many auto-mechanics and fitter-machinists that have moved the country forward.

Hayo, u tried but i'm still not convinced that HND is not better than Bsc in Nigeria. We will only be naive if we say that all universities in nigeria are better than all polytechnics. Just as we have substandard polytechnics we also have substandard universties in nigeria. Some of the polytechnics in nigeria are oxford or cambridge when compared to some universities. Lets talk about who delivers best in terms of output in organizations and companies. Do you think Bsc guys do better than HND guys? Our problem in nigeria is big names. We attached so much importance to big names like uni and degree thats why we are yet to develop economically and technologically in nigeria. Have a rethink on who delivers best if u thot it was Bsc holders.

Seun, u,re rude. Do u think u,re mr. perfect? May God change ur attitude, amen