₦airaland Forum

Kayouzka:
https://face2faceafrica.com/article/king-mwanga-ii-of-buganda-the-19th-century-ugandan-king-who-was-gay/amp

I gave him that link, he say na lie

FOLYKAZE:
Homosexuality is alien to Yoruba culture.

No its not.
Another generative Yoruba concept is adodi, plural of ado, indicating a man who erotically loves other men. In one pataki, Yemayá travels to a land filled only with adodi, where she falls in love with an ado. In another, she divorces her husband Orula, whom she discovers is an ado, though variants of this legend say that Orula left Yemayá for the male orisha Ogún (sip your tea). Queer Black mythologies have harnessed adodi to imagine and enact a more intimate world.
Below is the The Adodi Circle emblem

Also
Aina ( 1991 ), for instance, found that homosexual intercourse was conceived of as a source of power for otherwise heterosexually oriented men. Furthermore, Ajibade ( 2013 ) analyzed the existence of same-sex relationships in Yoruba orature. An Ifa priest he interviewed related the genesis of Orunmila, the orisha of wisdom, who was begotten through the intercourse of two females. ...

Do your research before jumping to conclusions

triplechoice:
It's not a fact he was gay. What you just regurgitate is gay propoganda which has been debunked at different times.

We have several images of the king, but not one to show where he flaunted that lifestyle.

It was a false accusationhe was gay by people who wanted to take over his kingdom .

If you insist he was openly gay, then provide a reliable source detailing how he displayed that lifestyle openly.Make sure you don't bring where he was labelled gay without any evidence.

I'm not interested reading propoganda.

I have provided European sources, you say na propaganda. I provided African, you say na scam. Please which evidence do you want again?

triplechoice:
The above is a joke. So homosexuals were the first people to have anal sex in Yoruba land and because of that
the word "adofuro" was coined?

Where did you get that from?

Where are the Yorubas on Nairaland to confirm this.

@Folykaze and @deepsight and @Lordreed ( not sure if you're Yoruba ,Reed, but need to hear from you too.) ,How true is it that homosexuals where the first people to have anal sex in Yoruba land which resulted in the descriptive word ,"adofuro"

@Jaephonix I think you're just imagining things ,and it's proof for me that you're only interested in winning an argument ,and don't care how you achieve that.

Even if it were true that homosexuals were the first to have anal sex, it still doesn't support your any of wild claims. Homosexuality and bisexuality are two different things. It's either you don't know the difference between the two, or you're deliberately trying to blur the lines in order to find support for your false assertions. You cannot confuse me with such deceptive argument. I'm very good at spotting that

The first link you shared below doesn't show how homosexuals were the first to have anal sex nor does it prove Africa was a hotbed of homosexuality. I think you need to check again the meaning of the qualifiers, "hotbed and immersed", you're using. They don't accurately describe what happened back then in Africa.

Nobody is denying the fact that we had effeminate men who could marry and have sex with other men in certain parts of Africa , but the culture wasn't widespread . What was common back then, was bisexuality not homosexuality
The links you shared showed nothing much. Just isolated cases here and there in some remote parts of Africa, and not everywhere.

What of your own community?

Are you not an African?

Get closer to your own people , listen to what they have to say and know the truth first-hand from them. I'm afraid you're being misled by what you read on some gay propoganda website.

Relationships with those effeminate shouldn't be equated with the culture of homosexuality as it's currently practiced in the western world, where it's one man to one man, one woman to one woman alone. The effeminate men if they marry at all, were married to men who were also married to women and that's not same sex relationship, homosexuality as we currently understand it to mean.

In most cases, if not all, such marriages with effeminate men are usually hidden from the public.


If same sex relationship was the norm and widespread back then in Africa, then the consequence of that would easily be seen; a marked decrease in the general population, since those who engage in same sex relationship don't procreate. If such relationships didn't mirror homosexual relationship as it's understood in the west, then why continue to use the inappropriate expression , same sex relationship, to describe it?

Why not describe it as it's? .They way it was understood and practiced back then in Africa.,so we get a clearer picture for comparison with what we see now




If you don't reply to the above question then don't expect me to continue with the conversation.
If you had the above information before now, why withholding it?You already misled your readers into believing that those artworks you discussed in your previous reply represents evidence of homosexuality.. You never considered anything else.
[/i] There's nothing like homosexual intimacy or gay sex. Sex is sex Intimacy is intimacy.Anal sex is not only for homosexuals? People who aren't gays are sometimes forced by circumstances to engage in anal sex.; Male students in an only male hostel, some sex starved soldiers with POW, and Sex starved prisoners
with other inmates during their period of incarceration. . Once the situation changes, the above group of persons usually revert back to the usual lifestyle.

What I see, is that you seem hell bent in seeing homosexuality in everything around you. So, I wonder why you're yet to describe as homosexuals ,male footballers who warmly embrace each other, and roll together on the field of play, during a game of football once a goal is scored.. Apart from you not providing any evidence for the above, I struggle to see its relevance to the ongoing discussion. The discussion is not centered on who taught anyone anything ,but on the false claim that the culture of homosexuality currently practiced in the western world is the same as we had back then in Africa and that it was also widespread
It's your own imagination that Mwaga 11 had wives to "comply with his father's wishes" share your source if you're not lying.

An African male king refusing to get married? You're telling tales by moonlight.

African sites labelling the king homosexual doesn't make it true. What makes something true is when it's supported by facts. There are no evidence from the link you shared below , which I retained in my reply, to confirm the king was openly gay. I have already explained the source of the false story.It was from the false accusation placed on him by the white colonialists. None of his own people confirmed he was gay and we don't have any images to support that he actually displayed that lifestyle openly.

The annoying thing you have done now, is that you shared exactly the same link which I already shared ,without even bothering to read it yourself
You only read the headline and quickly attached it to your post or read it without understanding it.

If you had actually read it , you would have seen that what it contains debunked your claim that the King was openly gay.
Go back to the thread and see where I shared the same thing showing where it was stated clearly that there's no evidence the King was openly gay.

Someone married to sixteen women is not homosexual. It doesn't matter if the person sometimes has sex with other men.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://theafricanroyalfamilies.com/2022/06/04/kabaka-king-mwanga-ii-of-buganda-gay-bisexual-or-queer/&ved=2ahUKEwip1NyZ2O_9AhUGgv0HHdYcDv8QFnoECGgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0H1QrHzWl8LJnGEjzpJWr1

https://face2faceafrica.com/article/king-mwanga-ii-of-buganda-the-19th-century-ugandan-king-who-was-gay

1.
Uganda
In Uganda, religious roles for cross-dressing men (homosexual priests) were historically found among the Bunyoro people. Similarly, the kingdom of Buganda (part of modern-day Uganda) institutionalized certain forms of same-sex relations. Young men served in the royal courts and provided sexual services for visitors and elites. King Mwanga II of Buganda had several such men executed when they converted to Christianity and refused to carry out their assigned duties (the "Uganda Martyrs". The Teso people of Uganda also have a category of men who dress as women.

Kenya
Swedish anthropologist Felix Bryk reported active (i.e., insertive) Kikuyu pederasts called onek, and also mentioned "homo-erotic bachelors" among the pastoralist Nandi and Maragoli (Wanga). The Nandi as well as the Maasai would sometimes cross-dress as women during initiation ceremonies.

West Africa
The Dagaaba people, who lived in Burkina Faso, believed that homosexual men were able to mediate between the spirit and human worlds.[27][citation needed] They also believed that gender was based on the energy of a person rather than that of anatomy.

Southern Africa
Writing in the 19th century about the area of today's southwestern Zimbabwe, David Livingstone asserted that the monopolization of women by elderly chiefs was essentially responsible for the "immorality" practised by younger men.[30] Edwin W. Smith and A. Murray Dale mention one Ila-speaking man who dressed as a woman, did women's work, lived and slept among, but not with, women. The Ila label "mwaami" they translated as "prophet". They also mentioned that pederasty was not rare, "but was considered dangerous because of the risk that the boy will become pregnant".[31]

Marc Epprecht's review of 250 court cases from 1892 to 1923 found cases from the beginnings of the records. The five 1892 cases all involved black Africans. A defense offered was that "sodomy" was part of local "custom". In one case a chief was summoned to testify about customary penalties and reported that the penalty was a fine of one cow, which was less than the penalty for adultery. Over the entire period, Epprecht found the balance of black and white defendants proportional to that in the population. He notes, however, only what came to the attention of the courts—most consensual relations in private did not necessarily provoke notice. Some cases were brought by partners who had been dropped or who had not received promised compensation from their former sexual partner. And although the norm was for the younger male to lie supine and not show any enjoyment, let alone expect any sexual mutuality, Epprecht found a case in which a pair of black males had stopped their sexual relationship out of fear of pregnancy, but one wanted to resume taking turns penetrating each other.
Read up more here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Africa
2. Our people dont talk about homosexuality. They see it as taboo and would rarely engage you, and that attitude is worsened by the criminalization of the act by religion and law.

3. Lol. So higher gay communities have low procreation rates? Are you aware homosexuality is decriminalized in India, yet it has the highest birth rates? That's a very ignorant post. You need to change that mentality.

4. Where did i insinuate male footballers frolicking on the field are gays?

5. You earlier said my article on Mwanga was propaganda by Europeans who wanted to paint him black. Now I brought African links and you're still saying rubbish without debunking them with facts

Techobeys:
Not accepting violence doesn’t mean you don’t express what’s inborn. People don’t like when they are at the receiving end of violence, but if they’re the one dishing it out, they love it.

Again, no one accepts violence. You get sent to prison for that. Everyone is capable of an amount of violence even the most docile person, but it doesn't make it acceptable. What's the relation with homosexuality?

Dtruthspeaker:
Don't know, don't care, their problem, your problem, not mine!

Oh you backed out of the debate. Nice

LordReed:
I put the blame on the gullibility of the Europeans, they were the ones who became crazy for that pile of junk and made sure it spread. The Jews just took advantage.

Actually it was the Romans that needed that control, and got it. Kudos to them

Dtruthspeaker:
You are already stupid and you married your mate in stupidity.

She's a theist like you, remember?

Dtruthspeaker:
All based on the tribe, society or association of a people for their use only. So you have nothing.

Are they the same as Yahweh?

HardMirror:
hahaha. I am extremely luck I swear. I advice guys NEVER to settle for less. I almost married a girl cos of beauty. This girl is a christian and very stupid. But then i found this brilliant babe here. She even works for me and does really excellent intellectual work. Would update you guys when we marry later this year .

You're making us look stupid for marrying theist wives. Stop it

RenegadeX:
How has your life been without God since you join atheism? Any significant progress or blessing/improvement in your life or marriage? because you used to be a Christian that quote scriptures (I saw an old thread where you were arguing with one colinadua guy that said he won’t marry, though he has deactivated now)
Are you enjoying life? Because your commander in chief on this forum Hardmirror is a total wreck and nothing to write home about.

In fact he is the evidence that any skeptic needs to see to be discouraged from atheism.

1. As an atheist, I have made decisions that I have admired favorably as the results were outstanding
2. Atheists have no commander-in-chief or there's no deity. You pulled that out of your ever resourceful ass, and also pulled out thw info that he's a total wreck from the same source, as if you know him

Dtruthspeaker:
Everyone knows that there is only One God. The One Who chose Abraham, Issac and Jacob to Himself. And you know this but because you are setting yourself up for someone to call you fool is why you asked this stupid question.

There's Allah, Thor, Viracocha, Huitzilopochtli etc. What's the name of yours

Dtruthspeaker:
Everyone knows that there is only One God. The One Who chose Abraham, Issac and Jacob to Himself. And you know this but because you are setting yourself up for someone to call you fool is why you asked this stupid question.

Lawag3

TenQ:
If you check well, you are the one who dodge answering questions!

1. Show me just one evidence each of these is your deities are known in Churches as Yahweh or forever keep your mouth shut!
I said:
I guess you don't know that in the Church, we use the term Eledumare, Chineke and Allah to refer to "God" depending on the culture still referring to the same being!?

2. You have been well informed about this. You need physical evidence right?

First, prove to me that: Everything that exist must have physical evidence?


You have stylishly AVOIDED all the questions I asked you. I represent them here

1. Does it make sense to you that the material and it's laws are NOT eternal. Doesn't common sense tell you that in the material world, every event has a cause?
Just purely logically, an Immaterial Uncaused First-Cause of Everything must Exist!


If you disagree with my submission, bring your best argument to the contrary?

2. Entropy has nothing to do with Life but Time. Everything tends towards a state of disorderliness and randomness. Energy become dispersed and temperature gradient become zero.

a. Does this mean that the universe will have an end?
b. Do you agree that If we project back into the past, entropy must be minimum at a point?

3. I asked:
Do you think the laws of physics applies before the big bang? The word "singularity" should tell you that mathematics and computation break down at that point!

How can the laws of Physics exist before the big bang?
a. Did matter, time and space exist before the big bang?
b. How many laws of physics do you know that exist without time, space and matter?

4. I asked:
Can the laws of Physics and Chemistry exist without matter?
And you are correct.
The implication:
i. Before the big bang, matter didn't exist.
ii. Therefore before the big bang the laws of physics and chemistry didn't exist
iii. It means that the universe was brought into being by a FORCE different from the laws of Physics and Chemistry
iv. It would be stupidity to speak about Creation and Existence of Matter using ONLY the Laws of Physics and Chemistry.
v. Christians have always described this Prime Mover (as outside the Laws Of Physics and Chemistry) as the Self Existing Uncaused First-Cause of Everything .

If not, bring your best argument to the contrary?

Are you scared of the implications of the logical conclusion?
I don't need the bible or any spiritual language to prove the existence of God to you Bro!

1. You said this
I called the Creator by His Title as the Uncaused First-Cause of Everything; He is my God. People call Him different names depending on their language and tribe
And also said this
we use the term Eledumare, Chineke and Allah to refer to "God" depending on the culture

Now I showed you evidence the names different people, cultures and tribes call their gods , and you're here jawing away by saying this
Show me just one evidence each of these is your deities are known in Churches as Yahweh or forever keep your mouth shut

You see how you're turning slippery when being found out
You also ignored where I said Muslim, pagan and Christian gods are accepted to be different by their worshippers(except you)

2. Logic does not support a uncaused first cause. Hope you know the fallacy called Special pleading?
Just in case you're ignorant of it, here it is…
Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle, without justifying the special exception. It is the application of a double standard.

3. Its not everything that exists that have physical properties but they have other properties which can be measured

4. Las las, leave science alone. You don't know how it works

Dtruthspeaker:
They are just twisting the Truth that it is God Who rejected them and threw them out, just like when a company fires an employee or a babe finally rejects a guy/guy rejects a babe.

And they know that as God has rejected them, it is forever that is why they are so inconsolably pained.

And exactly like sacked workers or rejected bitch/guy, they start hating company/girl/guy and start defaming them.

So they are just angry, no not angry but very very angry because He cast them out and marked them for destruction.

And even before their final destruction, they suffer a lot throughout their whole lives. That is what makes them even mad for their suffering is like they are already in hellfire.

But they real eyes that they are only in hell, they have not yet entered the Fire part.

Lawag3

Dtruthspeaker:
No be you 👿 go ask dis kain stupid question, make another fool wey we no know ask.

If you know the answer to the question , you can answer. If you don't, then bugger off

Dtruthspeaker:
No be you 👿 go ask dis kain stupid question, make another fool wey we no know ask.

Lawag3

Dtruthspeaker:
The fool does not real eyes that the balloon of denial always bursts and throws them straight into the fire. They are just stupidly following those devils who know that they are finished.

Lawag3

Dtruthspeaker:
Your foolishness is self inflicted so I blame you. 😽

Lawag3

Dtruthspeaker:
You are Satan incarnate 👿 so of course you must lie.

Lawag3

Dtruthspeaker:
Certainly, the fools wish it.

Lawag3

FxMasterz:
No you never did. I was the one who proved you wrong so many ways. Go back and read.

Lol. Where? The Moses case, you lost. Same as the flood. Each of the links you presented further buttressed the facts they didn't exist. In fact your last link clearly stated that the flood was a local event, but they wanted to sensationalize the news, and sucked you in to their ploy

LordReed:
We proved you wrong so many ways you are now going on emotional appeals. LoLz.

He left factual appeal and has finally landed where many christian lands when defeated: emotional appeals. Same tool my family always try to use when I show them glaring discrepancies in their religion. Its an amusing thing cos people that are otherwise intelligent would play this card and you wonder, "What has religion done to his brain?"

Michael548:
Op is saying God was not responsible for the calamity that befell Job.

Yahweh wasn't responsible? Did you read the part he gave Satan the permission? Or do you chrissies chronically suffer from Tunnel Vision?

TenQ:
You have manufactured names I don't know.
I guess you don't know that in the Church, we use the term Eledumare, Chineke and Allah to refer to "God" depending on the culture still refering to the same being!?
God is a TITLE my friend!



No sir. It's been answered.
Your Question:
Why do you demarcate your sky daddy from the laws of physics?

Whatever Initiated the Big Bang Created the Laws of Physics and Chemistry!
Your answer is embedded in the ANSWER to the question:
Can the laws of Physics and Chemistry exist without matter?



Does it make sense to you that the material and it's laws are NOT eternal. Doesn't common sense tell you that in the material world, every event has a cause?
Just purely logically, an Immaterial Uncaused First-Cause of Everything must Exist!

If not, bring your best argument to the contrary?




Entropy has nothing to do with Life but Time. Everything tends towards a state of disorderliness and randomness. Energy become dispersed and temperature gradient become zero.

1. Does this mean that the universe will have an end?
2. Do you agree that If we project back into the past, entropy must be minimum at a point?



I asked:
Do you think the laws of physics applies before the big bang? The word "singularity" should tell you that mathematics and computation break down at that point!

How can the laws of Physics exist before the big bang?
1. Did matter, time and space exist before the big bang?
2. How many laws of physics do you know that exist without time, space and matter?


I asked:
Can the laws of Physics and Chemistry exist without matter?

And you are correct.
The implication:
1. Before the big bang, matter didn't exist.
2. Therefore before the big bang the laws of physics and chemistry didn't exist
3. It means that the universe was brought into being by a FORCE different from the laws of Physics and Chemistry
4. It would be stupidity to speak about Creation and Existence of Matter using ONLY the Laws of Physics and Chemistry.
5. Christians have always described this Prime Mover (as outside the Laws Of Physics and Chemistry) as the Self Existing Uncaused First-Cause of Everything .

If not, bring your best argument to the contrary?

1. Thor, Viracocha, Huitzilopochtli are Aztec, Incan and Scandinavian gods. Since these folks know their gods by these names, and you claim different people and cultures know Yahweh by different names, that means they refer to Yahweh.
I know god is a title. But you claiming that that god is your Yahweh is very incorrect because Allah is a god for Muslims, and no Muslim or Christian(except, of course, you) believe they are the same. In fact, it's heresy in some Christian or Muslim quarters
2. You still haven't tendered any evidence that this your yahweh, in fact, exists. You're still conjecturing that he exist. Leave science out of this, you don't know how it works

phorget:
If mistake is not synonymous to regret/repent then I wonder anyone will ever regret his own creation.

Ask him that

Dtruthspeaker:
You are complaining because God in His goodness helped us kill devils like you so that the world would He made would remain good.

A fool like you does not appreciate that the evil that fills the earth does not affect Him at all but because of His love and pity for us, He stretched out His cutlass and cut down every weed for us. Then He gave us cutlasses and swords to cut down all evil things, as He left us.

But, people did not cut you Devils down, rather they have let you people live and grow and now you people have destroyed the world, and yet again you people are still disturbing God.

If I were God ehn, i won't answer you people until a thousand years or more is passed after the last man has died after all the goodness in this world, food, fish, air is finished as you people eat all the evils you like till you are too dead to be saved.

Lawag3

Dtruthspeaker:
It is True that God does not make mistakes however, your presentation is mistake filled and does not do the right to God.

First, all the things you said have no connection whatsoever with mistake for all you did was to show the stupid thinkings of a stupid living toy eg why am i tall, why am I short etc.

All these considerations are the stupidities that come out from fools. Prado cannot be complaining that it is tall and made to enter sand and mud or Ferrari saying it is short and cannot stroll through floods.

And none of these have any connection with your head topic, thus, your presentation falls!

Lawag3

Dtruthspeaker:
You are complaining because God in His goodness helped us kill devils like you so that the world would He made would remain good.

A fool like you does not appreciate that the evil that fills the earth does not affect Him at all but because of His love and pity for us, He stretched out His cutlass and cut down every weed for us. Then He gave us cutlasses and swords to cut down all evil things, as He left us.

But, people did not cut you Devils down, rather they have let you people live and grow and now you people have destroyed the world, and yet again you people are still disturbing God.

If I were God ehn, i won't answer you people until a thousand years or more is passed after the last man has died after all the goodness in this world, food, fish, air is finished as you people eat all the evils you like till you are too dead to be saved.

I'm really happy you're not in the US or UK where guns are easily acquired, else the atrocities you would have committed(and claim it was your Yahweh that endorsed it) would have been myriad. The only difference between you and Boko Haram or Al Qaeda is you don't have guns or explosives.
Good thing I know not all Christians are like you, I would have thought all Christians are terrorists

Dtruthspeaker:
Regret/Repent does not mean mistake. It only means a sadness, disappointment and a change of mind and not a misguided judgement or opinion.

When you change your mind about an action you carried out, wasn't it a mistake you did earlier?
By the way, how can an omniscient god change his mind?

Septagon:
If u are graduate and u believe this.tear ur certificate.its a waste.

As in serious waste of time, money, energy. His parents deserve a refund and an apology from each of his schools, from kindergarten to university

jonatoye:
Is your creation a mistake?

Stop deflecting and answer the question, sir