₦airaland Forum

Jashub:
Keep quiet you don't know anything . What your comrade did was punch up a slothful induction fallacy, and you're busy supporting what's not even logically valid to the argument. Before you type more rubbish , kindly look up what's called The slothful induction fallacy.

Before you type up any more, read up on fallacies

gohf:
Number 1 you said if, and Jesus isn't Yahweh. You were expecting me to counter sorry to disappoint you, my response was the best answer for you. And I never said morals came from gods.

There's no point having a conversation with someone who isn't following the discuss nor remembers correctly what was written. I am not offended by you just disinterested in discussing with someone that seems to be talking with someone else. Honestly your posts are disjointed.

You haven't answered any of my questions have you? You came up with an illusions that I am offended by you mentioning gods I don't care about.

The only point you have made is to disagree with me that God Almighty didn't teach morals to the first man, because you believe you originated from monkeys. Since that's what you absolutely believe stop wasting your time asking questions you don't want the answers to. And live the life you believe in

After all you are free to live and die forever, its your life not mine

All the questions you asked have been answered but you deployed your regular deflection tactics used by your predecessors. So I'm not surprised.
You haven't addressed any of the points I raised. Even the point I raised about morality change in the buybull was ignored.
So have a nice day, bro

gohf:
if it's the truth would you accept it if it goes against what you believe

Why not?

Jashub:
The usual array of insults has started when atheists can't find answers ...typical

Which question did you ask? Obviously you haven't known some theists here that are chief insult merchants

Jashub:
But Jesus existed ...and that's a fact other historians and have established.

One historian made a sentence about a Jesus, and boom it becomes that's a fact other historians and have established
Lol

Image123:
So if he says he doesn't just believe God exists but knows God exists, you'll give him icecream?

Quit parambulating

Jashub:
It seems you don't understand the word fallacy . Please rededicate yourself on it and stop supporting literal rubbish

I know more about fallacies than you bro. Invent another dodge mechanism

Jashub:
It seems you're not following the thread but I'll update you on it.

Josephus and Tacitus (two non-christian historians) admitted in their annals , that a man called Jesus existed . These men were known to be neither biased or religious in their accounts of historical facts . Which makes the validity of Jesus's existence true . Besides that's, other eyewitness accounts from the Bible verify the truth of the man Jesus .

So I don't see the connection here between New York and Spiderman .

I just showed you Josephus's account was faked. And Tacitus used a sentence to describe Jesus. For all we know, it may be another Jesus since its a common name.
Besides those accounts doesn't justify anything about the deification of Jesus. That means he was a common regular folk, not a god like y'all say. The only place he was deified was your bible

Jashub:
I don't understand this rubbish you just typed. But I'll humor you and give another chance to arrange your argument in a logical manner

Its an analogy he gave.
In the Spiderman comic series, he's supposed to live in New York. So he's saying that he came try to convince you Spider-man existed by saying New York existed

Jashub:
Our focus was on his existence ...not miracles nor His divinity. Which brings me to my point : Jesus did exist , and if he did , then the bible's account must be true. Therefore, it will be foolishness not to believe in the existence of a God. It's as simple as that

Lol. Doesn't it bother you or sound odd that the only non-bible mention of yahweh and jesus, the creator of the world, the man that resurrected people and even resurrected from the dead, was a sentence?
If someone performed miracles and even resurrected from the dead, do you think its only one newspaper that would carry that news?
Lol. christians are a special brand of stupid. A severe type of psychosis

gohf:
is that really the question, if it is true and not if the answer is acceptable to you?

Whether I accept it or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is if its the truth

gohf:
1. Which sinner saw him?
2. Writing together a bunch doesn't mean it's a sensible sentence. If you had any understanding you would have known Jesus didn't tell them not to stone her. Just like the rest of your other assumptions it shows you speak more on things you know little about and you neither listen to answers of questions you claim to ask.
3. Are you not so fixated on your twisted logic that you would even deny the very God that did not command human sacrifice but condemned so gods and demons that did, abolishing the nonsense men practiced in their search for power.


Morality and righteousness that comes from God does not change. If you like agree if you like don't agree. Men are still free to create their own form of morality and righteousness, or even self righteous. Whatever men create is only a copy of what they have seen

1. If Jesus is Yahweh, then its obvious the sinners he healed saw him. Question is, as a Christian, have you seen Yahweh?
2. If you can read properly I said stoning adulterers is okay in the old testament. Did I lie? In the new testament, Jesus didn’t tell them not to stone but he didn't allow them to stone an adulterous but he advocated forgiveness, reason why he said 'he without sin should throw the first stone'. Did your Yahweh advocate for forgiveness when he made commandments to stone adulterers? No! Is that not a morality paradigm shift?
I realized you didn't even counter any of the points I made, you just said i comment on what I know nothing about, without stating specifically what was wrong. That's a deflection technique y'all theists exhibit.
3. You just said morals came from many gods, didnt you? So why get offended when I mentioned some of them?
By the way, which god demanded Abraham offer his son as sacrifice? Baal? Allah?
We didn't say morals didn't come from your yahweh, but the point was it was dynamic, relative and of course, wasn't the only source of morals

gohf:
and you know it teaches that has what?
And who are you to know or say what it teaches and doesn't teach?

Do you read your Bible or pretend to read it?
You haven't seen Bible pages promoting slavery, misogynism etc?

gohf:
the fact you're smarter than a monkey but still feel you are related to them and call them your ancestors because its so hard to accept God accepting monkeys is way better 😂😂

Lol. What an ignoramus.
Who told you we came from monkeys?
How does the Great Ape translate into monkeys? Hope you know our DNAs are almost the same. In fact if I bring ape and human bones together , you wouldn't know the difference. And of course, there is scientific evidence we came from the great ape. Is there evidence of creation? No. Even the catholic church realized how wrong creationism is and are trying to inculcate evolutionism, Big Bang into their teaching.
Jokes on you, theist

gohf:
everywhere not just here

Worse in Nigeria

gohf:
I didn't give you analogies as evidence but to help your understanding. You have evidence of what you believe in, those who believe in God have their evidences. Now does that mean you're right and they are wrong?

Morality doesn't have to change because "society" changes. What exactly is changing? Definitely not the basis of a society, except one changes what makes up a society and keeps people together.

The terms of morality might improve to address more issues to help those with weaker understanding address new challenging tasks.

Be kind to your neighbor that's morality, right. The means of kindness might change or improve but that doesn't change the kindness. You can go about it how ever way you wish, even ignore whatever evidences have been shown you all through your life.

But then to you is it moral to laugh at what another believes?

Of it isn't then you are wrong and immoral to laugh at others but if it is then you are a joke as well. 😊

Would it be a stretch for you to show us evidence of your Yahweh existence?

gohf:
and in what way those that "illness" affect your life

Imagine if my boss has schizophrenia or bipolar disorder and sees an atheist like me in his workplace? Do you know he'll do to me? Or haven't you seen christians accuse little children of witchcraft? Or mothers being accused of witchcraft like they are responsible for their children's misfortunes? These are examples of delusions of persecutions. And these cause bodily harm, or even death.
Pastors saying they saw Yahweh and even had tea with him etc is a delusion of grandeur, and can wrongly influence easily impressionable and gullible folks which is a good percentage of the folks here.
These are mental diseases of Christianity

gohf:
trying to explain a portrait to the blind would be easier if by now you still lack understanding of what you have read

If you prefer going around in circles, then suit yourself

gohf:
Hmm how pathetic its like one who can move on their own two feet saying they would help the one who moves with a wheelchair by removing the wheelchair without healing them. So if the wheelchair doesn't hurt anyone why remove it?

Your point?

gohf:
and what would that help be?

Get them to do what is wrong and not care who suffers for it

No. The help they need is mental state examination. If they only inducement for them to do good is to promise them goodies like heaven, then they have some manic tendencies and would need incarceration to keep them away from the society

Jashub:
Josephus was a jew, not a Christian...so his writings couldn't have been in favor of any Christian doctrine because that would be heresy under Jewish law . Secondly , let's assume he were wrong ...and he was biased, but what about Tacticus and his accounts ...? Would you say he was biased too?

This is what Tacitus wrote…

But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind

Now we cannot really judge much because this was the only referral to Jesus outside the bible. No mention of his miracles ,his divinity, his resurrection etc. So make of it whatever you want

Jashub:
Josephus was a jew, not a Christian...so his writings couldn't have been in favor of any Christian doctrine because that would be heresy under Jewish law . Secondly , let's assume he were wrong ...and he was biased, but what about Tacticus and his accounts ...? Would you say he was biased too?

I would have to post the pdf later. Maybe a mail

gohf:
didn't alter it, just responded to queries and discuss

And lol, atheism can never be a "get out of jail card for sin" because no one can escape un-repented wickedness

Lol. Theists that practice all sorts atrocities in Nigeria weren't they thinking of the punishment? Or were they thinking of escaping?

gohf:
even if Jesus is fictional are his so called teachings evil and shouldn't be practiced?

I hope you know the Old Testament teaches sacrifices, slavery, killing of those that work on Sabbath etc. So yes, some of the Bible teachings are deleterious

gohf:
I wonder what an orphan child would say...

the problem with showing you is the clause, without holiness it is impossible to see God, the pure in heart are blessed to see God. Are you qualified to see Him, that should be your thought.

You should think if a president that does exist in flesh is hard to see, how much a God.

Asking for God that interacts as your earthly parents is like asking for a president that will interact with you like a lover. Not impossible but still the odds. If you don't see the problem in your request you can as well as ask for the sun to rise in your room.

Morality doesn't change, good is good, good will not become evil. Good is good, because it is not selfish nor self serving. Now the only kind of fake morality that changes is the king that caters to those in power who's needs are ever changing and never satisfied. To those whom been pleased is what is good irrespective of how it affects others or life or the earth.

We teach our children what has been taught to us, and no matter how far you wish to dig, it all begins with God no matter what name He is called in different religions or culture.

You can live in the illusion that morality is human determined but wake up the reality that humans would burn banks because of a lit displeasure or police stations or fuel stations. Question is, where did that source of morality you claimed human possess go. Did the very originators of so called morality let go of it and becomes animals.

You amuse me, you look at men and believe they are the source of morality 😂😂😂😂

1. So the sinners that saw yahweh in the Bible were what?
2. Oh, morality does change. It is both dynamic and relative. Dynamic meaning it changes over time. For example, using your favorite story book, stoning adulterous women was all good in the Old Testament, but frowned upon in the New. Same with polygamy etc. Same issue with slavery which was great in the Bible but right now is unacceptable. Morality is also relative in that what is morally right in the US is morally wrong in Nigeria. Example is binary people, LGBTQ etc
3. You said morality is from any god(irrespective of name) but you forgot those 'gods' gave laws that are relatively immoral in these days. Example is sacrificing of humans, animals, crops(which by the way, was a favorite of your Yahweh). Of course these are not practiced these days because morality has had a paradigm shift. In the next 50 years, LGBTQ, non binary folks etc would be morally right in the whole world, including the church. Of course there would be pockets of resistance but generally laws would accept it. Even now some African countries accept LGBTQ like South Africa

gohf:
are they? Or you are afraid to accept the answers and explanations they give you.

Not afraid. Question is, is it true?

gohf:
everywhere not just here

Why is it more in Nigeria/Africa

gohf:
even if it is a lie would you admit it or remove it

So we don't have criminals here masquerading as Christians?

gohf:
jaephoenix have you heard

Heard what?

gohf:
You said children don't know enough but we who claim to be adults know enough? Someone asks about the source of morals as if a child could develop such in isolation.

so why is it wrong to compare us to children in the face of vast knowledge of the earth, even in the face of history not to mention God Almighty and yet we who are but mere infants would claim to be the origin of morals denying the existence of a Father, a God above us and before us.

Do we know enough of this world to claim there is no God or judgement after death. Or claim we are the only existence and after death is nothing. Even with limitation knowledge the arrogance to attempt to explain away supernatural or things beyond human understanding just to deny the fact that there is a God.

Children is the best analogy to show how arrogant adults can be in the face of God.

You said the goal of a parent is to educate, does it then sound wrong to say God as a Father of men, strove to educate them?

And yes being an atheists is not an excuse to be wicked in anyway.

What supernatural events are we struggling to explain away?

gohf:
very well fine
A child doesn't know the value of what he is about to burn or is burning, so obviously there isn't a feeling of having done wrong in anyway. In fact such child would feel they are right to do whatever they wanted because they could do it, and justify doing it. That in no way makes it right

But an adult, or using your words, one of higher standard and understanding, who knows the value of those papers would know that that child has done wrong.

If God sets a standard and rule that values life is because he knows the value of it. The child like those sinners, did whatever they did out of their own understanding, pleasure or desire.

Morality cannot originate from an ignorant mind, is has to come from higher intelligent and one with high understanding and values.

The way that child sees that bag of paper and the way an adult sees it will always be different even though they are both living beings

Did you read any of my posts?

Kobojunkie:
1. Good observation! At first, I was concerned about being controlled by a spirit and all, and in those early days, I went from one psychiatrist to the other trying to figure out what happened to me but every one of them gave me a clean bill of health telling me that I was just stressing over stuff. They even took me off meds I had been on for many years because they figured there was no problem left to resolve. It was a hilarious time in my life too because never in a million years could I have figured that what Jesus Christ meant by being born of spirit, a part of the born-again process meant allowing oneself to be possessed by, not of, a spirit. And this spirit is always there with me, 24/7, only no one else can tell unless he begins, what has become a sort of regular routine.
So, anyone who tells you he/she is born-again but is not possessed by some sort of spirit, is a liar!

And yes, it wasn't necessarily the spirit that drove me to then pursue Jesus Christ with vigor after that, but instead the fact that I had started on that path of my own before he showed up in my life, a sort of confirmation that I was on the right path. So, it made sense for me to continue along that path to get closer to that promised by Jesus Christ.

2. I don't think at that point where I gained access into the Kingdom of God that there was any Holy spirit in the picture. Jesus Christ never mentioned a Holy Spirit in the context of John 3 vs 1 - 8 so it always upsets me when so-called Christians automatically assume being born of spirit is about the Holy spirit. It couldn't though since instead what Jesus Christ said is that one is able to gain access into the Kingdom of God via either of two gates, the Broad gate which leads to destruction(Hellfire) at the end, or the Narrow gate which leads to true life(Heaven) at its end - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 -30. This means that all those who will end up in Hellfire will all also be born-again. Surely, they couldn't have been born of the Holy Spirit only to have an end in Hell - how can the Holy Spirit end up in Hellfire?

3. Yeah, I started on a path of obedience BEFORE I became born-again. So, when people say they somehow need the Holy Spirit to come to hold their hand before they can then obey God, I know for sure that those folks are lying.

Actually youre right to an extent. Christianity is a mental illness which should be eradicated. It makes some people susceptible to delusions of grandeur, persecutions, audio visual hallucinations etc