₦airaland Forum

MightySparrow:
If all these are gods any difference between the image of God and express image of God?

Emusan:
So ETERNITY has origin to JaNosense

whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days.

English rendition of Hebrew screenshot evidence

Jesus "Whose origin (going forth) are from of old, from ancient days"


Nah him Trinitarian mentors insert & chuck in "ETERNITY"
The same Micah 5:2 that Sand2022 TWISTED in his posts.


The same WAILING WAILER abusing & insulting JW's for telling him the Bible truth hoarded by his gods of men 3 deities devotees.
.

DoWhatThouWilt:
we give God the glory 🙏

Carry your IBERIBEISM komot from here.

Your pastorpreneurs & gods of men are busy "sharing girls and women" in the name of crusades.

Screenshot evidences.

Come here and continue WAILING.

DoWhatThouWilt:
Don't thank me.
We give God the glory for exposing your organisation for what it truly is.

DoWhatThouWilt:
Go to university you refused.

Now look at how you are displaying your dullness in a public forum.

Thank God for delivering this you ex- pedophile organisation member.

Hebrew 1:6 "God brings His first born into the world."
Jesus the first born of God.

Faithless miscreants say nah "dullness in a public forum."
Faithless miscreants & BERIBEISM are inseparable.

Jozzy4:
The Fact that the word " Son of God " and " Firstborn" was never applied to the Father already showed this is just a futile attempt to dribble the truth.

Every occurrence of Son in the scriptures was applied to peope with beginning. That is why no such word is ever applied to the Father at any point in history.

Sand2022:
Reserve your energy for something else.

Sand2022:
I would say so. No one can be exact facsimile of Jehovah. Jehovah's nature is uncreated.

The Angels have God's spirit, but they have created nature.

Sand2022:
I would not think that an uncreated nature can be passed on. Nor will I see how we will be omniscient, immutable and know the heart as God does.

Kingsempires:
you see this one you failed it Wolfy why so you are trying to contradict

---

Isaiah 40:13

So you have an image of an angel not God


As for me na God image I get not angel

Kingsempires:
if Jesus being first born son means he was the first creation of God den can you explain
psalm 89:26-28, exodus 4;21-23 so with your explanation so God now have 3 first born son Jesus, David,and isreal

Please explain your narration

Barristter07:
The question should be when Jesus partake in Flesh and blood, did he exist in that same flesh and blood ?

That should tell you exactly the point of what you partake you become. Yes they become God's!

Do they have a God ?

johnw47:
Gen 1:26  Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image,

^^ God was speaking to the Word, Who with God made all that was made, john 1:3


the Word is the only begotten of God, God bought the Word forth from Himself (the Word Who became Jesus is personified as wisdom in proverbs)
all other sons (the saved) are adopted

God bringing the Word forth from Himself is described similarly to birth:
Pro 8:25  Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; 

bought forth
חוּל
chul or
חִיל
chil (296d); a prim. root; to whirl, dance, writhe: — anguish (6), becomes weak waiting (1), birth to you in pain (1), born (1), brings forth (1), brought forth (4), burst (1), calve (1), calving (1), danced (1), fall (1), gave you birth (1), gave birth (2), giving birth (1), labor (1), quaked (1), shakes (2), swirl down (1), take part (1), travailed (4), tremble (5), trembled (1), turned (1), wait (1), wait patiently (1), waited (2), whirl (1), whirling (1), wounded (2), wounds (1), writhe (2), writhe in anguish (1), writhe in pain (1), writhed (2), writhes (2), writhes in pain (1).




lost fraud jw janosky

adam and eve are not literally born of God, they are made/created
God made adam from the dust of the earth, God made eve from adam's rib

Gen_2:7  Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Gen_2:22  The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.

when the Word became Man, again He was literally and miraculously born of God
this time in the flesh, the only begotten Son of God:

Joh 1:14  And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

the Word; born of God - Spirit
Jesus; born of God - Flesh

Sand2022:
This nature is not the same as Divine Nature that Christ shares with the Father. No. In Heb 1, Christ is said to be the exact facsimile of God's Being - Hypostasis. And we have also seen that Christ is worshipped as God is. Also remember that in the beginning the word WAS, not the Word "is". So Christ has been there before the beginning. John 1:3 says all things were created by Christ. Not even one thing came into being without him. So he is not created and has no beginning and end. Compare 1tim 6.

So the Divine Nature we are talking about here is the uncreated Nature of God. Phil 2 says Christ was in God's [b]form before coming to earth. Only God possess this nature, so if Jesus possess it,[/b] he is God as such is worshipped. So it is no surprise that we see Jesus occupy what naturally should be Jehovah's and even to be worshipped. You don't dare give that to a mere creature. Check my Part 4 of this series.

The divine nature that 2Pet has in mind is that of Christ's glory. Christ was flesh when on earth and later got a glorified. That is what the anointed will get. They won't get what Christ is before his humanity. It's not even possible. See how the Insight comments on it:

Insight under Nature:

That this is a sharing with Christ in his glory as spirit persons, Peter shows in his first letter: “God . . . gave us a new birth [a·na·gen·neʹsas he·masʹ, “having generated us again”] to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you.” (1Pe 1:3, 4)"

Oga, angels in heaven are in God's form or in human form?


Oga, how come you TWISTING the meaning of "divine nature" in Phillipians 2:6?


Nah Phillipians 2:7. Psalm 8:5 (Christ left the glory of spirit persons, to become lower than angels).
. John 17:4-5,22,24 & 2 Peter 1:4 catch up with you.


Christ glory that Peter had in mind is the same glory that God his Father shared with Christ Jesus- the glory of spirit persons.
Phillipians 2:7. Psalm 8:5, John 17:4, did Christ left the glory of spirits to glorify God on earth?

Yes?
John 17:5. Did Jesus beg to get back the glory of spirit persons?
Yes?
John 17:22,24 "I have given them the glory that you have given me"
Is that glory of spirit persons given to the disciples, partakers of divine nature?
Yes.

Trinity nah scam.

Sand2022:
Jesus is worshipped in Isaiah 6:1-3

At John 12: 41, John made a striking statement. We read:

41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.

JWs agree that this glory refers to what Isaiah saw at Isaiah 6:1-3. We read:

"In the year that King Uz·ziʹah died, I saw Jehovah sitting on a lofty and elevated throne, and the skirts of his robe filled the temple. 2 Seraphs were standing above him; each had six wings. Each covered his face with two and covered his feet with two, and each of them would fly about with two. 3 And one called to the other: “Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies. The whole earth is filled with his glory. "

JWs do not see this as a proof of Christ deity, because they say that there are more than one persons here whom Isaiah saw their glory. They say that Jesus is equally there alongside Jehovah in the throne. (John 17:5) They prove their point by saying that in verse 8 of this chapter 6, Jehovah said " Who shall I send, Who will go for US". So they reason that the word US there is the same as US we find in Gen 1:26; 3:22 in reference to Jesus. This doesn't match

Sand2022:
But friends, even if that were true, it doesn't still remove the fact that Jesus is here worshipped. Notice what was said of this person on the throne. By shouting holy Holy Holy is Jehovah", that is praise assigned to only Jehovah ( Rev 4:8 will convince you). Notice also that this is holiness to the superlative degree. The Insight on the Scriptures (a book produced by JWs) says of this holiness:

"Those in the heavens are shown declaring: “Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of armies,” attributing to him holiness, cleanness in the superlative degree."

So if they insist that Jesus was also included in what Isaiah saw on the throne, it shows that Jesus is indeed a Deity just as Jehovah is. Isn't that wonderful?. How can all the Angels sing this praise to Jesus, if he was in fact a creature like them? Isn't that a creature worship? Now you're seeing why I reconsidered this subject of Trinity.

Sand2022:
But let's look at that Isaiah 6:1-3 without the jWs bias, and we will appreciate that Jesus is in fact that one being seen here by Isaiah. John 12:41 says Isaiah saw his (Jesus) glory, and "spoke about him, not Jehovah, mind you. So who did Isaiah see? Isaiah answers:

"I saw Jehovah sitting on a lofty and elevated throne." The final sentence says the whole earth is filled with his glory

So John is saying that Isaiah saw his glory and spoke about him. Who Isaiah saw and spoke about is Jesus. in my future article, we will see that scriptures used for God is applied to Jesus. But now Isaiah wrote mentioned only Jehovah, but John says he saw jesus. Some have concluded that this means that they are the same person, but that's not accurate.

Isaiah seeing his glory shows that Isaiah saw Jesus, but Isaiah calls him Jehovah. Why? Because they are of the same nature. Remember that Joshua seeing Jesus as he appeared as the Commander of Jehovah's Army.

But let's look at that Isaiah 6:1-3 without the jWs bias, and we will appreciate that Jesus is in fact that one being seen here by Isaiah."

"They are of the same nature"

"Some have concluded that this means that they are the same person, but that's not accurate"
Confused polytheist

Sand2022:
Now at Josh 6:2, that Jesus is referred to as Jehovah. (Compare John 17:12; Exod 23:21). This is another proof that they are of the same essence. We see this also in Psalm 102:25-27, where Paul applied what one would understand as praise to God the Father to Jesus. (Heb 1:10-12) There is no contradiction if we see that they share similar nature. You can switch the the glory you give to each of them and still be correct.

Sand2022:
At Isaiah Chapter 48:11, Jehovah says He gives his glory to no one else. But at John 17:5, Jesus says he had always shared in His father's glory. Contradiction? No. This can only be the case because they are of the same nature. If you worship God, Jesus also shares in that glory. The same if you worship Jesus.

But what further proof do I have that Jesus is in fact worshipped? Next week Thursday, let us now move to the New Testament scriptures proper to prove that Jesus receives worship.

So far, we have proved that Jesus is not created, and that viewed from the Old Testament scriptures, he must be of the same nature as God the father, because He has the same image, He is a Universal sovereign and He is worshipped by Joshua and the Angelic Host.

These are links to my previous discussion on this topic of Trinity:

Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/8185855/jw-pimo-reconsiders-trinity-doctrine

Part 2 https://www.nairaland.com/8192278/part-2-jw-pimo-reconsiders/2#131731691

If you want to see more of my writeup about JWs theology, go to my profile and see my series on "Ministry to JWs". I have over 12 articles on their teachings.

https://www.nairaland.com/sand2022/topics

Tags: Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan

Sand2022:
2. Jesus is a Universal Sovereign:

We know that only God is the universal sovereign. That is also the belief of Jehovah's witnesses. However, scripture shows that Jesus is viewed as the SAME Universal Sovereign as the Father. Let's see Genesis once more.

Gen 3:
22 Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” (NWT)

This might not appear to be a great point, but you will see what a point it is when you realize the meaning of knowledge of good and bad as taught by the witnesses. Jehovah's witnesses agrees with the position mentioned in the Jerusalem Bible (1966).

In describing what this knowledge of good and bad means, see what the Insight says:

"This knowledge is a privilege which God reserves to himself and which man, by sinning, is to lay hands on, 3:5, 22. Hence it does not mean omniscience, which fallen man does not possess; nor is it moral discrimination, for unfallen man already had it and God could not refuse it to a rational being. It is the power of deciding for himself what is good and what is evil and of acting accordingly, a claim to complete moral independence by which man refuses to recognise his status as a created being. The first sin was an attack on God’s sovereignty, a sin of pride."

The teaching of JWs is that by eating of that fruit, Adam and Eve were like God to themselves. They are in effect saying that eating of that fruit is right, when the Universal Sovereign has decreed that it is wrong. That is an attack on the universal sovereign's exclusive right to determine what is right and what is wrong.

To make it simple, the phrase "knowing good and bad" means setting standard of right and wrong". And only God has that right.

Now notice that the same phrase occured at Gen 3:22, but there God is saying that he is not the only one who has the right to get standard of right and wrong. Interesting, right? See what it says:

"Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad."

Sand2022:
Another reason why Jesus is a universal sovereign.

Jesus is the king of Kings. Let's read 1 Tim 6

"to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen." (NWT) JWs view this verse as referring to Jesus.

Jesus Christ at Rev 17:14; 19:16 is called King of Kings and Lord of Lords. This is clearly pointing to the fact that he is a universal sovereign. The Governing Body will say that this is in reference to earthly kings, that Jesus is there king. Of course, but let's inquire, for servants of Jehovah, both in heaven and on earth, who is our king? Do Angels have another King other than Jehovah? So the only king for true worshipers is Jehovah. So to even call Jesus King of kings is to equate Him with the Sovereign of the Universe.

But notice another word used of Jesus in 1Tim 6:15, the "Only Potentate" . This word in Greek is dymastes, it stands for Ruler or Sovereign. He is here called the ONLY Potentate/Sovereign. By using the word ONLY, Jesus is identified as the Only Sovereign.

Notice again at the end of verse 16, Jesus is worshipped. It says:

"To him be honor and eternal might. Amen".

This is worshipful praise to Jesus.

Let's see another worship to Jesus.

Sand2022:
3. Jesus is worshipped.

JWs teach that Jesus can be called a God, but that that God is just a title, not that he is worshipped. To prove Jesus Deity, let's start with the Old Testament.

Before Jericho was conquered, one unusual soldier appeared. Josh 5:14 reports:

"To this he said: “No, but I have come as prince of Jehovah’s army.” With that Joshua fell with his face to the ground and prostrated himself and said to him: “What does my lord have to say to his servant?” 15 The prince of Jehovah’s army replied to Joshua: “Remove your sandals from your feet, because the place where you are standing is holy.” At once Joshua did so."

JWs view this person to be Jesus. Notice verse 14, it says Joshua fell with his face to the ground and prostrated. Many translations used "worship" to translate "prostrate". Of course bowing one's face to the ground doesn't always mean worship, but there is a reason to say that here, it is worship, and that NWT was being biased. Why? In verse 15, Jesus, who is the Prince of Jehovah's Army didn't stop him from bowing, he even told him to remove his sandals for where he was standing is a holy place. This means that Joshua's bowing has changed to the level of worship. He is like in the presence of God Himself or the Ark of the covenant.

Oga,You are stretching your imagination very far .

From heaven What is the command Jesus handed down to John @ Revelation 19:10?
@ Matthew 4:10 did you see the same command given to Matthew to pen down?
"Worship the God his Father."

Sand2022:
3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high."

Notice, the exact representation of his very what? Being. Take note of that word. The Greek word used here for exact representation means a facsimile of something. It means that Christ is of the same Being of God. The word is hypostasis, meaning Substance or Essence. In other words the same Nature as God. When you hear the Trinity recitation of "God from God, very God of Very God", this verse is the key to that phrase. They mean that Christ is of God's Nature. That is why in my previous article, I said that perhaps God split Himself in two, and assign role of Son to the second Facsimile of Himself.

Creating us in his image means we are able to manifest His qualities. God cannot connect His uncreated image to someone who is created. If Jesus was a creature, it will be misleading for God to say that man was created in His image, it would rather be God's image and the image of another creature that he made man. God can say that the image is "Our Image" in reference to others, if those ones are of the same Nature as himself. Being of the same nature, we can then use singular and say, we are made in God's image.

Why can't Sand2022 support his theoretical conjecture with the holy scriptures?
E get why


Oga is running far, very fast away from the truth written by John the apostle @John 5:26 & Revelation 3:14.

Oga,Why is every first BORN child (boy or girl) the spitting image of their Father?


Jesus Christ is the first born of God, Hebrew 1:6 & Colossians 1:15. John 5:26 .

Sand2022:
Today, we are still exploring why Jesus needs to be seen as of the same nature as the father. Let's start with Genesis.

Gen 1:26-27
Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them

This scripture is significant to the topic. It is a scriptural fact that we are made in God's image, not the image of a creature. Here God is revealing something, that he is not the only one involved here. There is US. then in verse 27, the bible goes further to say that God went on to create man in HIS image. In verse 26, there is US, then in verse 27, there is God, singular. This is one proof that the one who had the same image as God here must be of the same essence or nature with God. There is no way to run away from that.

Sand2022:
So far, we have discussed the meaning of Trinity in my earlier post, and the last post I made is why Jesus cannot be said to be a creature. The main point of that post was on John 1:3, that apart from him not even one thing was made. That shows that Jesus cannot be reckoned as a creature.

Youareforgiven:
You are agreeing with me on this, do you also agree with me that Jesus Christ is Yahweh of the old testament. Jesus Christ was God in flesh... For your own good, you should.

MightySparrow:
Nice one.
I once asked the JWs' what material did God use to create Jesus ' none has been able to answer.

maximumSide
January
other JWs

Oga what material did Jehovah God use to create every being in the spiritual realm?

Oga,if you get liver,produce the answer to that question from your own Bible.


Sparrow WAILER forming woke.

achorladey:
See the werey peddling brains wey dey point fingers of personal attacks

No wonder you peddle you will never have order in your life.

Emusan:
Even the Prov 8:22-30 didn't support your lie.

The speaker TALKED ABOUT WHO IS CARRYING OUT THE CREATION ACTIVITIES.

Read it slowly and see that the speaker says "When HE spread...

I use to ask you people who is that 'HE' the speaker was referencing? But you people will turn a blind eyes to it

Emusan:
This is Daniel 4:30 and show me where Nebuchadnezzar said HE BUILT THE CITY ALL BY HIMSELF

"The king spoke and said, “Is not this great Babylon that I have built for the house of the kingdom, by the might of my power and for the honor of my majesty?”

Compare this with Isaiah 44:24 where God lied (according to you) "Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, and He that formed thee from the womb: I am the Lord that maketh all things, that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself;

King Nebuchadnezzar praises his prowess at Daniel 4:30 & you don't comprehend that?
Emusan dunce.
Oga,which institution did you buy your degree from?

Dunce wey dey form Civil Engineer, you need to be seriously investigated.

Kai !!!!!!!!

achorladey:
When hanged they start asking questions


See questions everywhere

achorladey:
And the spirit emissary was referred to as.............?


And your GODS of men housed in USA don't want to be dogmatic about it

Emusan:
Imagine the level of his delusion.

You said a Trinitarians are fraudulent for inserting something that is not in the Greek manuscripts but defending your OWN ORGANIZATION that also inserted what is not in the same Greek manuscripts.

The shamelessness is topnotch

MightySparrow:
But God said

Isa.44.6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

The Almighty God said I don't know any other God besides Himself. Your NWT says there is a true God and the untrue 'god'!
Reconcile these.
Simple.

MightySparrow:
John 1:1 NWT says God and god.

MightySparrow:
We are saying the same thing. two gods.

Sand2022:
So the point falls apart. That Jesus bear Son is no proof that he MUST have a beginning. I don't want to respond to other parts of your comment because it will derail the point being put forward. Besides John 1:3 is the proof that he was not created.

Oga, what did the same apostle John teach you @ Revelation 3:14,21?

How come every being has the same Father (Senior) in the spiritual realm?

Oga Sand2022, would John the apostle who wrote John 1:3 & Revelation 3:14,21, study Ephesians 3:14-15,
1 Corinthians 8:6 & Romans 11:35-36 & reject your own conclusion about Jesus ?

Job 41:11 & 1 Corinthians 3:23, John 17:7, how come every thing as in EVERYTHING belongs to the God?

Acts 3:18 & Hebrew 1:2 has clarified John 1:3.

Acts 3:18, Should we conclude that the prophets fulfilled the things announced because it was announced through the prophets?

Hebrew 1:2 & John 1:3 , should we conclude that Jesus is the creator because the universe THROUGH his son?

The screenshot evidence is irrefutable, Greek dia = medium or instrument or Agency is NOT the creator.

Because Lawyer buy house for him Client,nah Lawyer own the house?

MaxInDHouse:
The rest is Story my guy.

English dictionary has told us what Firstborn is all about it has to do with children and part of them so if there are creatures the FIRSTBORN of creation is one of those created!

Emusan posted A.I , the guy is desperate to refute the solid evidence he brought to Nairaland.
He must continue WAILING.


Emusan post:
"Jesus is the first born in the sense of being the first to be born or created. He is the beginning of creation."

Sand2022:
According to my friend? What you quoted, if I am not mistaken is an Excerpt from JW publication which he also quoted. How is that his opinion?