₦airaland Forum

Emusan:
Apart from material it known fact that every created being needs a SPACE TO OCCUR.

Reason why the heaven was created for spirit beings.

So, if Jesus was the first to be created WHERE DID HE STAY? Since He was the one who created the abode of the spirit beings called HEAVEN.

One jws has mistakenly answer Jesus was in ETERNITY WITH THE FATHER.

I was like wa oooo do you know the meaning of ETERNITY? ETERNITY means no space, no time no mass e.t.c

The only thing that will make Jesus to be in ETERNITY with the Father is IG He is God as well and this is the testimony of the scripture. Micah 5:2

Emusan:
That is what in saying, till now you still couldn't understand MetaAI very pathetic of you JaNosense

Because the solid evidence is against their delusion invented at Nicene, they digress from the topic.
They choose to respond with insults & personal attacks .


From Sand, Achorladey, FX Masterz,Courz Oteneaaron, Emusan etc.
Nah their way.

MightySparrow:
Good work brother. NWT supports the doctrine of Trinity than any other translations. There is a God and god. And the scriptures say,

MightySparrow:
Isa.44.6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

MightySparrow:
Here in NWT, there is another god approved by the deluded Governing Body. Who co - created all in creation. He even created The Throne of God because God must be somewhere before He created The Heaven and The Throne all there is everywhere.

Once again, good job.

Emusan:
But you won't see the word "OTHER" inserted by Watchtower in Col 1:16-18 as dubious as it was never found in ANY GREEK MANUSCRIPTS.

Hypocrite!!!

Emusan your post:
"Jesus is the first born in the sense of being the first to be born or created. He is the beginning of creation"

Is enough evidence that "OTHER " @ Colossians 1:16 is very good and very correct.

Oga,Come & Continue WAILING.

Emusan:
Without wisdom and understanding couple with disjointed and incoherent sentences despite years of schooling him on Nairaland.

Mr continue to deceive yourself, hear again.

The term FIRSTBORN AS USED BY APOSTLE PAUL was explicitly explained by the same Paul in the same Col 1:18.

Jesus was not the FIRST person the scripture will use the term FIRSTBORN for in regard to POSITION/RANK

Not only that, the reason Jesus must be FIRSTBORN (PREEMINENCE - the actual meaning of that word is because Jesus MUST BE FIRST IN ALL THINGS.

If Jesus is the FIRST CREATED (the term scripture never used for Him) then there's no NEED FOR HIM TO BE PREEMINENCE OVER ALL THINGS again

DLNT: "And He Himself is the head of the body, the church. ... Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, in order that He Himself might come-to-be holding-first-place in all things"

GW: "He is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, the first to come back to life so that he would have first place in everything."

MOUNCE: "And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, in order that he might be preeminent in everything."

This verse alone proved that Jesus was never part of Creation but when He became part of Creation, He then MUST TAKE FIRSTBORN (SUPREMACY) in ALL THINGS.

I've rehearsed this several times to you people's dull skull.

Even AI understood it and interpret it that way.

Look at how AI explained the verse below.
See that it gave two meanings to the phrase "FIRSTBORN of every creature" but the part that you people always cling to, it inserted Col 1:16-17 to shows that meaning isn't applicable to the writers mind.

The issue with you people is lack of simple comprehension crowned with polluted doctrine.

Sand2022:
Yes the organization has long suspected that Jesus was that Jehovah that kept coming as the Nagel of Jehovah in the Old Testament.

However I know why I stopped at Josh 5 as evidence. There he appeared as the Commander of Jehovah's Army, and He was worshipped in a way that one cannot deny that this was in fact a worship. The command to remove his sandals changed the setting. This is no longer ordinary bow of respect. Joshua would have known that this is different had his initial bow been that of respect.

Petalss:
Mr Max, I have been longing to know your interpretation of this verse John 8:58, where Jesus says: "Jesus said unto them, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.'"

ichuka:
Verse 7 says He took the position of a servant, meaning He took the position of a Son and God becomes the Father( they are titles). question is why the title Father and Son?
I believe it has to do with redemption or obedience.
I strongly believe before creation God perceived (or foreknowledge)the disobedience of created beings(angels and man).
And without obedience the universe cannot hold,so God has to find obedience in the universe when He creates it.

Hebrew5:8 says Even though Jesus was God’s Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.
Meaning in the beginning God don't know how to obey, because there nothing to obey to.
So Jesus learnt obedience in the world.
I perceived that an agreement or arrangements was reach in the Godhead [/b]that Authority by the Father Has to be answered by Obedience in the Son.in so doing obedience was created in the universe.when Jesus said "it's finished" on the cross.meaning redemption has been accomplished by the creation of obedience.
The creation in genesis was completed on the cross of cavalry.

ichuka:
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6Who, being in very nature a God,

did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

7rather, he made himself nothing

by taking the very nature b of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

8And being found in appearance as a man,

he humbled himself

by becoming obedient to death—

even death on a cross!

9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place

and gave him the name that is above every name,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.Phillipians25-11

Verse 6 above proves Jesus equality with God.

MightySparrow:


Born of whom?
Why did not other creation explained as being begotten but created?

Who was begotten at Luke 7:12, Luke 8:42, Luke 9:38 & Hebrew 11:17?

ALL creatures can be begotten.
It is strictly for Father/ parents & son/child relationship.

Oga leave that delusion invented at Nicene.
E get why.

Emusan:
Lying liar!

"a god" will continue to be a wrong rendering.

Here is another one you will be struggling with from Meta AI

Emusan posted the screenshot of the same Meta A.I Llama 3.1 about Colossians 1:15.

Jesus is the first born in the sense of being the first to be born or created. He is the beginning of all creation "


Trinity in the mud. Wotowoto.

Emusan you are as empty as your Meta A.I Llama conflicting itself.

Your Meta A.I said Jesus your deity is the first to be BORN or CREATED."

Dunce Meta A.I confusing dunce Trinitarian

Sand2022:
Last time I posted about the meaning of Trinity which many obviously don't know. Today, I will be writing about Jesus origin.

My previous belief was that Jesus was a creature. This is because of what I was taught as a JW. The view is that Col 1:15 says that Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation. The organization understand that to mean that Jesus was the first person created by God. They also understand the same about Only Begotten. They understand that begotten mean created. That Jesus is the only person directly created by Jehovah. And that after Jesus creation, God used Jesus to create all other things. That is why if you notice in their translation they added "other" in Col 1:16. Their view made them to use "a god" in their translation of John 1:1.

However, as I further went through the scriotures, I realized that the view is lacking. Why?

Why Jesus is not a Creature:

See John 1:1-3 once more.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence."

The bold face phrase shows clearly that Jesus cannot be a creature. Since this verse says that apart from Jesus, NOT even ONE thing came into existence, we only have two option, 1. If Jesus was created, Jesus must be the one who created himself. Why? Because apart from him, nothing was made. 2. He was not created.

The latter conclusion seems plausible
.

Sand2022:
Secondly, the word "all" that appeared in verse 3 is "panta" which the New World Translation added "other" at Col 1:16. "Other" was not added at John 1:3. Obviously, because it can't fit the rest of the sentence. You cannot add "other" when the verse clearly said that apart from him not even one thing came into existence. It is also noteworthy that if you read col 1:16 in their interlinear, you will notice that "other" is not there showing that "other" was added.

.

Why cling to John 1:1-3 & Colossians 1:16, when Jesus has proven at Matthew 19:4-6, Matthew 11:25 as well as the apostles John (John 5:25-26, John 17:7, Rev 3:14) & Paul (Romans 11:35-36. 1 Corinthians 8:6 & Hebrew 1:2, Ephesians 3:14-15 & Genesis 1:27) proven that God his Father created ALL THINGS?

@Job 41:11 (copied in Romans 11:35-36), the heavens belong to Jehovah God.
@1 Corinthians 3:23, did Jesus Christ belong to Jehovah God?

E get why? Matthew 11:25.
Trinity in the mud. Wotowoto.

Sand2022:
That is why if you notice in their translation they added "other" in Col 1:16. Their view made them to use "a god" in their translation of John 1:1.

However, as I further went through the scriotures, I realized that the view is lacking. Why?

Sand2022:
Last time I posted about the meaning of Trinity which many obviously don't know. Today, I will be writing about Jesus origin.

My previous belief was that Jesus was a creature. This is because of what I was taught as a JW. The view is that Col 1:15 says that Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation. The organization understand that to mean that Jesus was the first person created by God. They also understand the same about Only Begotten. They understand that begotten mean created. That Jesus is the only person directly created by Jehovah.

StillDtruth:
Did you not read that even righreous Abel and the prophets and the disciples have not receieved their revenge?

That is why the bible said The Day of The Lord will be a great and terrible day for He shall avenge Himself and shall give vengeance!

Emusan:
When I posted that screenshot, I still take my time to educate you because I know you find it hard to comprehend and still you still couldn't comprehend till now.

You're not JaNosense for a reason

Emusan:
You actually paint it as it should be.

Even Paul himself explained why Jesus is called FIRSTBORN.

In verse 18 "Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, supreme over all who rise from the dead. So he is first in everything."

Key note from this verse is that:
1. Jesus is called THE BEGINNING Just as God called Himself the Beginning
2. preeminence is @underlined

@ Colossians 1 :18 "he ( Jesus) became" ,
underline that word ,Greek lexicon 1096 BECAME.....

Jesus BECAME preeminent because he was granted that privilege, John 17:7.

No be him get am. Jesus received it.

God his Father owns EVERYTHING, 1 Corinthians 3:23 .

Emusan:
FIRSTBORN is different from FIRSTCREATED

Firstborn is used among human to mean human can give birth NOT CREATE, you can never say your father CREATED YOU.

Firstborn is used among RULERS to mean HIGH RANK, FIRST POSITION, PREEMINENCE E.T.C

The writers of the New Testament know the two words exist yet NEVER USED the word 'FIRSTCREATED' for Jesus Christ.

And Col 1:15-18 expressly shows that The firstborn used for Jesus IS ABOUT PREEMINENCE not as being BORN AS HUMAN.

Simple English!

Emusan LYING miscreant posted this AI screenshot evidence.

Emusan posted A.I screenshot evidence
"Jesus is the first born in the sense of being the first to be born or created. He is the beginning of all creation "

Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power".

MightySparrow:
Don't mind the Governing Body followers and and their hypocrisy. Why should they add to the scriptures to give it a meaning, Is there not dishonesty?

Elsewhere, God said Israel is my firstborn: does this mean Israel is the first nation to be created on earth?

This is why Yorubas call them alakatakiti, the unreasonable, deluded ones.

Emusan:


First of all, you couldn't provided Nebuchadnezzar equivalent of Yahweh God.

Secondly, Prov 8:22-30 shows that the SPEAKER was not the one ACTIVELY CARRYING OUT THE CREATION WORKS

Lastly, God can never lie that He CREATED ALL THINGS BY HIMSELF and ALONE and and at the same time Jesus if He was CREATED CAN'T BE USED ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE.

So, Jesus must be THE CREATOR which is what the scripture actually says.

StillDtruth:
Revelations shows us that no evil doer has paid for his evils by dying. The payment begins when God gives him his reward.by sending him to hell fire, to get the evils and tornents he once gave to others, in fullfillment of Law.

Michael547:
Alright good....now which name(singular) out of all the names that you've discovered did your God say you should not take in vain according to Exodus 20:7 below?

Boomark:
Bros abi neighbour, I have shown you from the scripture that the new name is CHRISTIAN. I can't take anything coming from your head. You should know me na. I can't take such things from my penticostal people how much more from JW.

Stop writing essay for me. Just give one or two scriptures that clearly says that "Jehovah's witness" is the new name.

His followers were called 'Christians',in Antioch. Acts11:26.
@ Acts 15:6-17, did Jesus followers (gentiles & Jews) identify themselves as "bearing God's name?
That name is Jehovah's WITNESSES.

Some will come here & be WAILING about Acts 1:8.
But they forget about Acts 2:42 in their Bible.

Sand2022:
You did say that Son has the idea of beginning. This is the point I am discussing, remember? Let's keep to that.

That your position is what is misleading. Father also do apply to people who have beginning just as the word Son. Adam is a Father, Abraham is a Father. Do they not have beginning?

Jesus fatherhood is futuristic. For Christ, what he will be called is what he is. Let's not derail. Fatherhood is like a title. There is no place in the bible that proofs that if one bears the title Father, he doesn't have a beginning. That is the point you're bringing up concerning the Son. This is what I am disproving.

The bible clearly says that apart from Christ, not even ONE thing was created. John 1:3. The only option available is that Christ created himself if we are to insist on him being created. If that statement is illogical, then Christ was not created. Simple.

Emusan:
The fact is according to the English dictionary, the term FIRSTBORN never has anything to do with CREATE....As this has been established.

So, what is the meaning of FIRSTBORN as used in the scripture for Jesus.

The only part that goes with the dictionary meaning you provided is at that @color part which means the writer of that verse never has Jesus as being CREATED in mind but of something else which will actually mean the @color part

Glad your dictionary meaning shield more light on this.

Emusan:
Without wisdom and understanding couple with disjointed and incoherent sentences despite years of schooling him on Nairaland.

Mr continue to deceive yourself, hear again.

The term FIRSTBORN AS USED BY APOSTLE PAUL was explicitly explained by the same Paul in the same Col 1:18.

Jesus was not the FIRST person the scripture will use the term FIRSTBORN for in regard to POSITION/RANK

Not only that, the reason Jesus must be FIRSTBORN (PREEMINENCE - the actual meaning of that word is because Jesus MUST BE FIRST IN ALL THINGS.

If Jesus is the FIRST CREATED (the term scripture never used for Him) then there's no NEED FOR HIM TO BE PREEMINENCE OVER ALL THINGS again

DLNT: "And He Himself is the head of the body, the church. ... Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, in order that He Himself might come-to-be holding-first-place in all things"

GW: "He is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, the first to come back to life so that he would have first place in everything."

MOUNCE: "And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, in order that he might be preeminent in everything."

This verse alone proved that Jesus was never part of Creation but when He became part of Creation, He then MUST TAKE FIRSTBORN (SUPREMACY) in ALL THINGS.

I've rehearsed this several times to you people's dull skull.

Even AI understood it and interpret it that way.

Emusan:
Look at how AI explained the verse below.
See that it gave two meanings to the phrase "FIRSTBORN of every creature" but the part that you people always cling to, it inserted Col 1:16-17 to shows that meaning isn't applicable to the writers mind.

The issue with you people is lack of simple comprehension crowned with polluted doctrine.

According to Emusan AI download of Colossians 1:15 , Jesus is the first born in the sense of being the first to be BORN OR CREATED"

Every first born is in his Father's image, character etc.

This meaning is applicable to the writer's mind.

Your AI Colossians 1:15 debunks your FAULTY interpretation of Colossians 1:16-17.

Emusan dey play


The issue with you Emusan's Trinitarian people is lack of simple comprehension crowned with polluted doctrine"

FxMasterz:
Courz has a full thread dedicated to that on this forum. Your manipulation of scriptures was extensively reviewed and exposed on the thread.

Emusan:
In your own logic

only The Father KNOWS makes the Father to be a PERSON

But Holy spirit KNOWS the very mind of God shows Holy spirit isn't a PERSON.

If Jesus didn't know, that automatically means it's not a person..

Can you imagine...

Emusan:
Holy Spirit is a person and He KNOWS THE VERY MIND OF GOD!

Only then you will understanding why Jesus said ONLY THE FATHER KNOW.

FxMasterz:
Okay, it seems he is not yet well aquatinted with them to know who they really are. He's just supporting them naively.

He should put their Bible beside Interlinear Bible to see how their Bible gets exposed for its outright manipulations.

Emusan:
Funny enough!
Now directing me to dictionary the same you who claim I'm using human philosophy the other time.

The term FIRSTBORN was used for people who are not THE FIRST BORN IN THE FAMILY in the scripture that is the perfect example you need..

Emusan MUMU logic.


Are those "people who are not THE FIRST BORN IN THE FAMILY," creatures too?

Emusan:
Not only that, Col 1 expressly explained the THE TERM FIRSTBORN as used for Jesus. "...So that he MIGHT became FIRST in ALL THING"

Sorry, if Jesus was the (FIRSTCREATED the term never used for Him) then no need for Him to still come AND BECAME FIRST AGAIN IN ALL THING.

Very simple English understanding.

Emusan:
This is why people like you FAILED IN EXAM.

The term FIRSTBORN isn't about human given BIRTH in this context of Col 1:15-18 but about POSITION/RANK

Why this simple English is so hard to comprehend for you?

" Jesus is First born of every creature " NOT first born of the uncreated.
Adam is in whose image?
Jesus is in whose image?
Trinity nah scam.


Emusan,in your family is your POSITION/RANK higher than the first born?

What is the POSITION/RANK of the first born of God?

Oga,Continue to deceive yourself.
What a dunce!