₦airaland Forum

acidtalk:
Let's get it started.

Bring out the debate guidelines, date and the rest.

Lets try and do this over the eekend when people have enough time to do Reasearch, fact finding and the rest.

Oga make we do this thing once and foreall. Enough of all these noise making from 'supposed" supporters.

I will do this preliminary work if others consent.

I don't want to expend efforts in preliminary work and then get discarded.

Let's have consensus on my Chairmanship first.

We will also need the buy-in of Seun and the Mods.

I promise to organize the best Debate NL has ever seen if I get necessary support from all stakeholders.

acidtalk:
If i am not made a debater, can i please be amongst the panel of judges as well?

The role of a coordinator/Chairman is just coordination, not judging. It is different from judges. Even at that, the Chairman doesn't take unilateral decision, decisions are democratically arrived at.

But nor problem, I just felt my experience in online debate hosting can be helpful here.

agabaI23:
I think it is only the APC guys that do this cursing thing. Please my guy

But offer is not accepted Jarus. Person wee dey sponsor advert for Buhari for local radio to be wetin for debate...? Suraji no way

Lol. Ok o

obayaya:
You may not know me, but I know you. You are popular and respected around here because of your resourcefulness and objectivity.

Your replies on this thread aren't the sort of comments that earned you the respect we have for you.

you didn't even try to look at the points Okey Ndibe raised in the article. Your only chose to point out some conspiracy theory on the relationship between IBB and Abiola the chairman of Concord group.

I'm not saying your theory isn't true. But it doesn't invalidate most of the points raised in the article.

if this thread was created in 2012, Jarus wouldn't have waved those points aside just to dwell on conspiracy theories.


PS: I'm aware you are aspiring for an elective post in Offa LGA on the platform of APC. That's what I meant when I said you are now a politician.

You still showed that you didn't know me much.

You asked if I would have made such comments in 2012; yes, I would.

I was arguably Buhari's biggest defender on Nairaland in 2011 and was coordinator of the NL team that raised money for him. See this 2011 thread: https://www.nairaland.com/611008/report-efforts-buhari-bakare-team-here

That was before 2012 you mentioned, far before I thought of considering elective politics.

If I defended Buhari actively in 2011, if this same thread had come up in 2011, I would have given the same response.

This is defence of political choice. I looked at the bigger picture, which is that Concord was a rabid anti-buhari newspaper.

It doesn't matter who was the journalist that wrote the article.

I would have made same argument in 2011 if it came up wghen we were debating Buhari in 2011.

Mother of all debates on Nairaland.

shakazuldadon:
From what ave seen on NL.. A true debate is near impossible. The hatred and insults hurled against each other is just unbearable and Unimaginable.

I think we should start on the issue of security first..... thrash it out completely...move to health.....economy......

I have small hope that the debate may be successful...

LIFE TIME BAN FOR ANY INSULTS.... while its on

We have organized successful political debate on NL in the past.

See this we did in October 2012: https://www.nairaland.com/1081002/1914-amalgamation-historical-mistake-nairaland

I'm pro-Buhari and I have never hidden that.

However, I have ability to rise above my personal choices.

I offer to bring my coordination skills to bear in conducting the debate as Chairman of Debate Committee if offered.

I won't be part of judges anyway.

My role will just be to organize/coordinate alongside other team members.

obayaya:
Politics do really change people

This isn't your style.. This has never been your style..

You just insinuated that Prof. Okey Ndibe was obfuscating facts just to favor IBB?

Well you're now a politician, you're bound to be like then..

Don't Lose the Jarus in you. At Least not so soon.

I have not checked your profile to know when you joined Nairaland, but if you think I don't do politics, then you're new to Nairaland.

I don't know what you mean by the "Jarus in me" because Jarus in has never hidden his political preferences on Nairaland here and elsewhere.

I don't hide where I belong, even as I try to be just to all.

For your information, I coordinated other Nairalanders to raise close to 1m for Buhari campaign in 2011 which we used to sponsor jingles in s radio stations across 5 states.

I have also spent close to 100k from my personal pocket on Buhari's election in 2015. A jingle I sponsored is currently running on two radio stations in Kwara state for Buhari.

My NYSC certificate was withheld for 3 months because I criticised a state governor in a national newspaper in 2007.

So I don't know what you mean by "Jarus is doing politics" when I have done politics all my adult life!

BizBooks:
If the presidential elections were held today, Buhari will most likely become
the next president of Nigeria. This prediction will hold true unless a cataclysmic
event occurs between now and February 14. If such event happens, I will come
back and update this thread as necessary. But as it stands now, Buhari is heading
for victory and here is why:

A state by state analysis of likely winners of each of the 36 states shows Buhari
winning 20 states with Jonathan winning 16. Below is the list as it stands at the
moment:

BUHARI STATES:
1. Adamawa – Buhari
2. Bauchi – Buhari
3. Borno – Buhari
4. Edo – Buhari
5. Ekiti – Buhari
6. Gombe – Buhari
7. Jigawa – Buhari
8. Kaduna – Buhari
9. Kano – Buhari
10. Katsina – Buhari
11. Kebbi - Buhari
12. Lagos – Buhari
13. Nasarawa - Buhari
14. Ogun – Buhari
15. Ondo – Buhari
16. Osun – Buhari
17. Oyo – Buhari
18. Sokoto – Buhari
19. Taraba – Buhari
20. Yobe – Buhari
21. Zamfara - Buhari

JONATHAN STATES:
1. Abia – Jonathan
2. Akwa-Ibom – Jonathan
3. Anambra – Jonathan
4. Bayelsa – Jonathan
5. Benue – Jonathan
6. Cross River – Jonathan
7. Delta – Jonathan
8. Ebonyi – Jonathan
9. Edo – Jonathan
9. Enugu – Jonathan
10. Imo – Jonathan
11. Kogi - Jonathan
12. Kwara - Jonathan
13. Niger - Jonathan
14. Plateau – Jonathan
15. Rivers – Jonathan

P.S: SaharaReporters is reporting that IBB has endorsed Buhari. If that is confirmed,
I will move Niger State from Jonathan to Buhari's column.

Disclosure: I consider myself a Jonathan supporter. However that support is largely
ethnocentric (read: tribal).

Jonathan can never win Kwara!!!! That I am sure of.



Meanwhile, I see 18-18 in this election.

Move Edo, Ondo, Adamawa and Taraba to Jonathan and Kwara and Niger to Buhari. (even in 2011, Buhari won Niger).

I agree with him. Stoning the President's convoy is highly disrespectful to the office, partisanship apart.

Promhize:
To say I am disappointed is an understatement, sir. Why don't you ask questions of the allegations?

There is something called bigger picture.

Give it to Asamoah Gyan, one of Africa's finest strikers in national team colours.

46 goals in NT no be moinmoin. Rashidi Yekini that we idolize here has 37 national goals.

Congrats to Ghana although I supported Algeria.

Unpredictability of football. Wondering whether it's the same Algeria that held Germany to extra time in a World Cup second round game.

Where are those that are saying Hausa Language was not offered until 1974 quoting one researcher's work?

The same way they are quoting Wikipedia.

AlfaSeltzer:
It is a constitutional requirement that each candidate show his or her certificate. Everybody has done so except Buhari. Buhari can get hold of a copy of his certificate if he contacts WAEC office or Cambridge University. What's stopping him?

"Everybody has done so except Buhari" is a lie.

VP Sambo also did not present his degree certificate, claiming it was burnt. It was a confirmation from ABU that he also submitted.

[i][/i]

anonimi:
Is there anything in the news written by Okey Ndibe that is not true?
If yes, kindly highlight instead of simply casting aspersions on the medium.
Thanks.




Kai Buhari!!!
#Liberate-Lagos

I have never denied that there were breach of human rights during Buhari's regime, like any other military regime.

Even Jonathan, despite ruling under democratic regime, also has his share of human rights abuse, from the seizure of Sanusi's passport to harassment of Tambuwal using soldiers.

That does not take away what is well known fact that Abiola used Concord to launch an attack on Buhari's regime to wet the ground for takeover, and justify the takeover afterwards.

This is well documented.

Who owned Concord?

Who sponsored the coup that overthrew Buhari?

Who did IBB deceive that he would hand over power to as part of the terms of coup hatch?

It's looking like Ghana are going home tonight.

But Ghana don't go down without a fight. I can't bet against them.

I can however put my my money on Senegal beating SA and SA going home (too).

How did they "dump" him? Were they for him in the first place? They said they didn't support him in 2011, wondering where dumping came in.

I had seen this article and sent my rejoinder to the columnist that wrote it earlier this morning, only to come to Nairaland and see the article again.

Let me just reproduce the rejoinder here again:

++++

Dear Ukeh,

I read your column in Daily Sun of today and will like to call your attention to where you missed the point.

1, You wrote that Division one in SSCE means scoring A grade in every subject. This is wrong. I made Distinction Division 1 in my SSCE and I had 8 Distinctions (A1-B3) and one credit (C6) in my WASSCE in 2000.

How is the grading done?

Add the grades of the best six subjects, if the sum is between 6-20, it is Division one; if it is less than12, like mine, it is Distinction Division one (a more prestigious sub-class within Division one).


Add Buhari's best 6 subjects in that result( 3+5+5+6+6+7= 32).

I don't know what where Division 2 ends, but if it starts at 21 (Division one ends at 20), it is not unexpected that Division 2 stretches to  32.

As a columnist with full page to himself in a national daily, it doesn't speak well that you did not check these facts before misleading your readers.



2, You also questioned the difference in the spelling of the name "Mohammed" and "Muhammadu".

Except you want to be mischievous, you should know that it is very common in Nigeria to have different variations of same name especially at lower levels of one's life.

My primary school result, which I cannot find again, reads "Suraj Oyewale", my WAEC certificate reads "Oyewale Tunji Surajudheen", I wrote my WAEC in the same year I wrote my UME, and I filled in a different variation, "Oyewale Surajudeen Oyetunji", in my UME form, which is what was passed to university and which is what my degree certificate reads and what I now use, officially.

Does that make my WAEC certificate that carries "Oyewale Tunji Surajudheen" (note that "h" after "d" in the spelling of Surajudheen in WAEC, which was due to the innocent 'funkification' of my name as a poor secondary school boy)  invalid?

I have never had to do any affidavit or police report because any reasonable human being understands that.

I have attached my WAEC certificate and university statement of result bearing different names just for your viewing.

I think it is mischievous for anyone to raise dust on these petty issues.

Suraj Oyewale, ACA
Lagos

gbadexy:
Even at that, shouldnt we know whats left to work with.
l never did question their integrity i only asked that light be shed on their finances. Their accountant jarus whom at least ive met a couple of times before is someone with untainted records and can be vouched for by many.

No problem. TEHN will give update on that later today.

fr3do:
Why wasn't that master list photocopied and provided?
That is the document with enough authority.

The photocopy of the masterlist with Cambridge heading was also released alongside the school-prepared statement.

nationwide1:
'Above your head' because you can't substantiate your lies? Even a child knows the monumental falsehood being displayed by Buhari / APC. If you think PDP just made the allegation without strong reasons, then you must be a kid. Don't you know that PDP has lawyers and they know the implications of such allegation if turned out to be false? I'm sure your knowledge of politics ends with 'PDP', 'Change' and 'APC'. Get this truth tonight: Even the APC chieftains know that Buhari does not have school certificate. This is beyond children politics on Nairaland.

If you think anyone will forge a document bearing Cambridge - of all places - then you're the ignoramus.

If you think PDP cannot be using this to distract attention, you don't know jack about Nigerian politics beyond "APC" and "PDP" like you wrote there.

jerseyboy:
That's the issue. There is nothing in his head.

So why are your masters not asking for what is in his head, but what was his certificate in 1961?

Seun:
What he scored in WAEC before GEJ was born doesn't matter. What matters is what he has in his head right now versus his opponent.

Unfortunately, many people don't see it that way.

Much as we would have loved to ignore them and focus on what "he has in his head right now" we cannot dismiss these allegations. They need response once in a while.

LAST BULLET:

If you think Buhari will forge result given what is at stake (including disqualification from contesting if found true), then your ignorance is pathetic.

If you think anyone would be stupid to release a fake document bearing Cambridge - of all places - in a matter of this criticality....

If you think PDP cannot be using this to deflect attention as a political gimmick...then you're the political ignoramus here.

Seven, that Nigerian educational system did not have class 6 in 1961, contrary to what the school claimed.

Another product of poor research. I will just reproduce what Dr. Ogbonaya Onu, former governor of Abia state, said on this: “Many young people don’t know we used to have Form 6. I attended Form 6. I attended higher school that is what it is called then and you spend 2 years at the lower and the upper. You can’t go to Form 6 unless you completed your Form 5 and he got all the credits in the relevant subjects. So all those are in his file.” – (Vanguard, 22 January 2014).

Eight, that Hausa language was not offered as a subject in 1961.

Another lie. An email sent by my friend, Sodiq Alabi, to Cambridge Assessment Archive Service, when the debate was raging on the Social Media, was replied within hours. Responding to Sodiq, Jacky Emerson, Archives Service Delivery Officer of Cambridge Assessment (archives@cambridgeassessment.org.uk), wrote: “Dear Sodiq Alabi, According to the regulations for 1961, African language papers, including those for Hausa were set for West African School Certificate”.

There are many other more weak grounds put forward by those that have so far dismissed the published result. In addition to the re-issued statement of result, the school also published the masterlist sent to it by Cambridge University, the examining body at the time, showing the Buhari’s name and results, alongside other students that wrote the exams for the school in that year. The document is in Cambridge University letterhead, and I wonder why anyone would forge a public document of such criticality and have Cambridge – of all places – as issuer. Punch newspaper has taken the initiative to verify this from Cambridge. We await the response to their inquiry.

I know the already jolted anti-Buharists will not let this rest as it has continued to serve the distractive purpose they set to achieve, but that will not stop some of us from knocking these basic facts into their heads.

Four, the result reads Government College, Katsina state but Katsina state was not existing in 1961.

Poor debaters, so if someone that schooled in say Lokoja, old Kwara State, now Kogi state, in the eighties applied for a fresh copy of his statement of result today, the result will read, “ABC College, Lokoja, Kwara State” and the signature will bear 2015!
I guess Union Bank should also be using Barclay’s Bank letterhead if it wants to respond to a 1971 enquiry in 2015. As we say on the Social Media, shaking my head!

Five, that the passport used was recent.

The school was issuing another copy of Buhari’s statement of result in 2015, in the currently used template, which requires passport photograph affixed. The school never claimed it was not a 2015 document – it is a 2015 document confirming a 1961 event.

Six, that the result reads “Mohammed Buhari”.

Well, maybe I should also throw away my WAEC-issued o’level certificate despite carrying my picture. After all, the name reads “Oyewale Tunji Surajudheen”, and my official name currently reads “Oyewale, Surajudeen Oyetunji”, which was the spelling I used when I wrote my UME in 2000, just few months after my WASSCE. It is the UME spelling that stuck till today.

I have watched with keen interest the new round of controversies that were triggered by supporters of President Goodluck Jonathan on the Social Media over the veracity of the results released by Government College, Katsina. The arguments defy common sense and they are not worth replying in a formal medium like a newspaper OP-ED page. However, seeing that even well respected citizens like a senior lawyer that was on Channels TV the morning of the day the result was published in national dailies, not getting this basic fact, it becomes imperative to offer some explanations to the questions raised. I will take them one by one.

One, that this is a statement of result, not certificate.

Do people know the meaning of certificate at all? Certificate is issued in one copy, and by the examining body, not the school, which is a mere examination center. My WASSCE certificate, issued by the West Africa Examination Council (WAEC) in 2000, after showing my details, says “having been in attendance of the following recognized school…”. This follows what should be common knowledge that, it is the examining body, not the school, that issues results, and the result is the property of the student, not the school. What the school issues is statement of result which is copied from the result mastersheet also supplied by the examining body to the school, and retained by the school. It is this masterlist that is the property of the school.

Of course, schools may – and that is common now – keep photocopies of the certificates for their own records, but that is just a cautionary approach for acknowledgment, it doesn’t override a more compact masterlist which is what is for the school for keeps. And I can pardon a school that did not photocopy the originals of certificates handed to students in 1961 – in a core northern school for that matter, at a time when education was just picking up in that part of the country. Even if copies were kept, it is also pardonable that such results may not be found in 2015. How many public schools can produce 1951 records?

Certificate, it should be noted again, is issued by the examining body, not the school. It is only a statement of result that a school issues, and that is what was published by Buhari’s school. A statement of result can be issued as many times as possible since it is just by copying the information on the masterlist sent to it by the examining body.

Two, that the result carried a 2015, not 1961, date.

Simple: Does anyone expect the current principal to use 1961 as date for a re-issued statement of result? If you completed secondary education 50 years ago and, due to loss of the initial copy you were issued, you applied for another one today, do you expect the current principal to backdate the issue date to 1961? Of course, the current principal could not have been the one that issued the initial copy 50 years ago. Do you expect him to go and invite the principal of the school 50 years ago to come and sign – even if we assume he is alive? Is it not the current principal that will sign? Do you expect the principal in 2015 to backdate to 1961, when he may not even have been born?

Three, why are we seeing A1, B2, B3 etc, a recent grading system, on the published statement?

A1, B2, B3 etc grading system was introduced in 1999. There is what is called template. Every institution or organization has a template for issuing documents, and this evolves overtime. If I lose my WAEC statement of result and go to my secondary school today to apply for another copy, I don’t expect the school to still be using the template it used when the initial copy was issued 14 years ago, today. Do I expect them to go and revert to their old template because of me?

Another analogy: If I apply for my 1994 bank statement in say GTB, do I expect it to look like that I collected in in 1995, when the bank may have changed the format, and all that. Is it not the date of transaction, credit, debit, balance and beneficiaries that are important to me? Why do I have to mandate GTB to use the format they used for me in 1995 for me?

Simple: Buhari’s school has only used the current template it uses in issuing statement of results which has A1, B2, B3 printed somewhere on the side, and doesn’t change the substance of the result.

Onyiido:
Even the passport, the cancelled neco $ the grades calls for questioning

Oga, so let's say you wrote your SSCE 20 years ago, and you can't find your statement of result today and applied for another copy from your school:

Will the school use the current Statement of Result template, or the one that had become outdated and no longer in use 25 years ago?

Remember the current template has NECO/WAEC and the one being issued only needs to be struck out.

If you're the principal of the school today, will you go and find the principal of the school when the student wrote the exams 25 years ago, to come and sign the result?

Will you use the date you're issuing the latest copy of the statement of result or backdate to 25 years ago, when you were not the principal?

Do you expect a school to still be using the template for issuing statement of result in 1961 in 2015?

If your school was in Ibadan, Western Region, in 1961, and you're re-issuing the document today, will you still put Ibadan, Western Region in 2015, or Ibadan Oyo State?

Are we this daft?

MalcoImX:
So this contest is not only between Jonathan and Buhari?

"Anyone who thinks he stands a chance against Jonathan or Buhari is not smart enough to be President of Nigeria"

Saw that on twitter. LMAO

Nnamdi Azikwe is believed to be the greatest orator Nigerian politics has ever seen.