₦airaland Forum

solite3:
yes a church is made up of people and in a local church you would agree with me that not everyone in it are saved but they could be saved when the local church hold on to the true doctrine of Christ.

When the church begin to lose hold on that which she receives then it could make people fall away from Christ and even cause true believers to have temporary fall.
Those who still retain their white remaineth are those who continue in the who continued in the doctrine of Christ.

Those who overcome are those who will continue in their faith in Jesus Christ till the end.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

You didn't contradict me.

BTW, how does someone continue in the faith?

babadee1:
Of course, pls ask me. I love questions.

Supposing you were just born again at an altar. Genuinely.

And from the sevice you went back home.

And you sat in your house for 5 years only watching TV.

You didn't smoke, drink, party, commit fornication or lie because you didn't even talk to anyone for 5 yrs.

All you did was watch TV and eat food in your lonely apartment. (You stocked up food for 5yrs). In fact you did nothing that anyone can point out as a sin.

On the 5th year, if Jesus were to come for His bride, will you also go along?

I mean, since you at least only genuinely believed on Him 5yrs ago at an altar.

Will You go to heaven to be with Him?

babadee1:
If you believe in Him then that is enough. There is nothing extra that you can add to faith. God bless you.

Lol..i have a question.. Will you like to answer?

babadee1:
Let us agree to disagree. Only God knows the full truth and by His grace He will help us to understand better.

P.S. I still believe that the works referred to in that scripture is faith. The work of God is this, to believe in the One whom He has sent. (John 6:29)

God has revealed the truth in His believers heart by the Holy Spirit.

If you don't know the truth and it's hidden from you, then you need to repent.

BTW, if you beleive on One, this means you also believe all He said and act on it.

solite3:
Christ wasnt speaking to an individual but to a church not an individual.
Remember that the candle sticks represent the seven churches.

Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

That is you people's problem with dissecting scriptures.

In an earlier verse Christ spoke to a particular church. But he said there are some in this Church that are worthy and will walk in white.

3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life.

So do you think what He says to the Chruches, he doesn't mean individuals also?

Are the Churches not made up of individuals?

C'mon.

babadee1:
You are the one arguing with me. I have been very clear from the beginning of this discussion. Works are not part of God's plan of salvation and I still stand on that. May God open our eyes to see the clear truth of His word. Amen.

Works befitting repentance are part of it Sir.

Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don’t repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.

babadee1:
My brother once again you're refusing to see what I am saying because you want to be right. I don't care about being right or wrong, but I know from the clear word of God that there is no effort in faith. The work of faith is automatic and human input is not required. All those works you are referring to are meaningless to God unless they're the result of faith. Human works of righteousness are like filthy rags to God. The only works that God recognizes are the works of faith which involves no human effort or human input.
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. That is all.

@bolded So what you are saying and what I am saying is the same na.

Why are you arguing with me?

babadee1:
The simplest way I can describe faith is to explain it like a computer program. Faith is a program that is encoded in the word of God. When we hear the word of God then faith is downloaded into our hearts, but it needs our permission to run. Once we allow it, the program runs and automatically executes everything the programmer (God) has instructed it to do.
The key issue is that the work of faith is automatic and it is a gift of God, not something that we can ever work for or earn.

Then you don't know what faith is then.

Firstly I said faith was a gift of God in an early comment its not by works you get faith.

But when God gives you faith, it comes with the acts based on the faith.

The Hebrews 11 scripture you pointed out even shows this.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

solite3:
you are wrong here good works does not save.
Faith in Christ means to trust/ depend on Christ and his work on the cross as the perfect and final requirement for our salvation anything else is another gospel.

Bros..i never said good works saves.

I said being saved breeds good works.

If you don't show good works and claim you are saved, your faith is dead and vain.

babadee1:
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things not seen.

I have already answered this your question even before you asked it.

Remember when I told you this:

"By the way there's nothing mental about faith. Faith is not mental assent to anything. It is a real spiritual substance that God deposits in our hearts when we hear His word and we can either choose to accept it and let it do its work, or we can reject it and opt to try our own works. The choice is yours."

That is faith in a nutshell.

Oga..give us lay man definition. What do you understand by faith. How will you explain it to a child?

solite3:
@ bolded salvation comes before good works.
Which means good works is not what saves but only comes after salvation.

Go back and read my other comments.

babadee1:
So basically you're saying salvation is something we obtain as a result of the good works that we do in combination with our faith in Christ, not something that comes through faith in Christ alone. Is that what you're saying? Yes or no please.

Now I see your problem.

You don't know what faith means.

Please define faith let us see your understanding first. Then I will know how to address you.

babadee1:
I'm not misapplying the scriptures. You are only seeing what you want to see in my statements. And I noticed you still haven't answered my question. Are we saved by our deeds? Yes or no please. I say no, what do you say?

I have answered you question Mr Man.

Let me make it simple for you.

God is the one who gives people the faith to be saved.

People who are genuinely saved by God receive a new heart.

This heart craves after good works. And they study their bible to learn how to do these works.

They do these good works and show their appreciation for the grace of God in their lives and they keep this to the end and end up getting the salvation they hope for. They do not receive this grace in vain.

This is done by the Holy Spirit, who can not be given based on our good works. This is why Jesus paid the price, we believe in Him and we are transformed so the Holy Spirit can live in us. The Holy Spirit is the guarantee of the full salvation to come.

.....Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?....

But if you do not appreciate the gift, you will forfeit this salvation because you did not appreciate it in keeping with the good works assigned to you.

Therefore:

Salvation is as a result of Acknowledgement of what the Lord and Saviour has done, repentance and keeping good works done through His Spirit.

It is not I confess, then sit down and watch TV and then end up in heaven.

babadee1:
Sir you have not yet answered my question. Are they saved by their deeds or not?
Before you answer you may want to read Romans chapter 7, especially verse 18. Apostle Paul said, I know there is nothing good in me (in my flesh), because I want to do good but I find that I cannot. Oh wretched man that I am who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. That's an Apostle of Christ talking, how much more you and me. The more you try to do good the more you will fail. You can bank on it.

You keep misapplying the scriptures.

Firstly, the saints are saved to do good works. If you don't do good works, you are just like the tree Jesus spoke about that is taking up the ground and wasting it. And you will be removed and burned in the fire.

Secondly, your flesh dwells no good thing. But it doesn't end there.

This is why "works" were taught to be done in the Spirit.

Jesus said abide in me for without me you can do nothing.

The bible also speaks of walking in the flesh and walking in the Spirit. We should walk in the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the works of the flesh.

Paul said I labored more abundantly yet not I, but the grace of God in me.

Holy Spirit is the Spirit of grace who enables us performs the works that are pleasing to the Father.

Jesus said the Father is seeking those who will worship Him in Spirit and truth...not in the flesh.

babadee1:
Ok. Does this scripture mean that they are saved by their deeds or not?

Sir,

You are not yet fully saved.

Christians on earth are in the process of salvation.

This is why there are scriptures like:

...he that endureth to the end will be saved...

..he that keepeth my works to the end...

...he that overcomes will I grant access to the tree of life..

..hold fast to your crown so that no man may take it...

Also the parable of the talents...the one given the least did not multiply it or invest it and he was cut off from the kingdom.

Many will say unto me..Lord Lord, .......but they will be denied because they did not do the will of the Father.

babadee1:
Thanks for this exposition. So tell me how do you work out your salvation?
By the way there's nothing mental about faith. Faith is not mental assent to anything. It is a real spiritual substance that God deposits in our hearts when we hear His word and we can either choose to accept it and let it do its work, or we can reject it and opt to try our own works. The choice is yours.

Acts 26:20

First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

babadee1:
My brother, whenever you read the scripture always pray for the Holy Spirit to give you divine wisdom and understanding, because the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life. We are talking about salvation, Apostle James in that verse you quoted was not talking about salvation o.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There are no works involved in salvation, only faith. Only after we have been saved can our faith bear fruits of righteousness. But the works themselves have nothing to do with our salvation, it's just a direct byproduct. Faith only saves us and keeps us saved, not works. In Acts 16:30-31, the jailer asked Paul and Silas, What must I do to be saved? They replied, Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.
They did not ask him to do anything about works. Please learn the truth of the Gospel of Jesus and do not add or remove from it because that brings a curse.

You guys will be twisting scriptures anyhow.

The advise you gave that guy is the advise you should give yourself.

When the apostles spoke about not being saved by the law, they were speaking to Jews who were used to the "works of the law" to cover their sins or what is also known as the laws of Moses.

This was spoken of many times in the book of Acts by the Apostles.

Now James comes along and speaks of a new kind of "works" which is the "works of faith" which is different from the "works of the law of Moses".

The word believe in the bible is not your modern dictionary meaning today. It doesn't mean just a mental assent. This is why James says the devil believes also and trembles. But what separates the believers from devils is the acts done based on that belief.

This is why Jesus spoke on judgements based on works that people will do. "Many will say to Him Lord, Lord, and He will tell them to depart why?" You answer that question yourself.

The fruits of true belief is acts/works done based on the belief. If you believe on the Lord Jesus, it means you also believe all He's said and you will act on it or there will be consequences.

You work out your salvation. You don't mentally assent to it and believe you will end up in heaven.

Learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

Thank you.

Sheriman:
People no even rush here to comment

That shows you how majority who ever lived on earth will suffer eternal damnation.

Only few will be saved.

The one that is surprising is that many who attend church fellowships or call themselves Christians today will in a few years from now will be part of the earlier group I mentioned.


..And he will go forth to deceive and seduce and lead astray the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth—Gog and Magog—to muster them for war; their number is like the sand of the sea.

A nation in turmoil.

A warning against its wickedness.

People are shouting North, North, North, but let's see Lagos in 2 weeks time.

murmee:
My friend, the Government is not tying rope to anyone's neck to drag him/her out of the house. You are very free to stay lockdown in your house for as long as you want. You don't need to create unnecessary fears for people!

You called his sane question "unnecessary fear".

Unnecessary fear for a virus that has killed over 200k people around the globe?

Now I see why Nigeria is the way it is.

The monies that most of you who enter public transport will transact with will be the major cause of the increase.

Forget face mask.

Infected money in your bags, pockets, purses will contact other items you won't be conscious about. And you would be focused on only washing face masks when you get home.

Its obviously a bad idea to release the lockdown at this period but because the Govts have failed, they have no choice but to make this bad but somewhat necessary decision for the benefit of some.

May God help you guys from Monday.

The realities of the universe have no care about your dreams, plans and future ambitions.

In a day, disruptions can occur and all will be lost.

So will the coming of the Son of man be.

Amend your priorities.

Corona should have taught these people the vanity of life.

This economy that people are in a rush to open, when cases goes way beyond what can be handled, the same economy will be forced to be closed for a way longer time.

This same Govt earlier this year told you guys before we had any case that they had capacity and were ready to tackle the virus, but see what is happening. This same govt due to pressure is now relaxing the lockdown when the cases are just starting to skyrocket and Nigerians still believe in the Govt's decision.

Jack500:
Oga! What has d lockdown done? The case keep increasing, to hell with lockdown.

When you guys refuse to sit in your house let's be done with this. Now it's what has lockdown done?

People who usually compare Nigeria with other countries saying they are relaxing their lockdowns why can't we?

Why don't you check up on what is currently happening in Germany right now.

God help Nigerians. Especially Lagosians.

VaselineCrew:
These people that are advocating for lockdown, please tell us when the lockdown should have been lifted.

A year from now, 2 years

Ask Italians that question. They can better answer you.

Felicity0001:
During the Gov. Fashola regime we most buses only loaded 3 passengers in a row so everything is about government policies, unless the government is not serious about her duties nothing will be achieved

Is 3 passengers in a row six feet apart? Even if it is 2.

Many Nigerians don't know what is going on out there.

God help Lagosians especially.

ufondunenye:
How come the president didnt make any mention of churches?
I was eagerly waiting For him to say something partaiing to opening of churches, but he didnt.
Hmm!! Let's wait till 4th May nah.


I'm saying this because I know of some mosque in my areas that are still operating up till now oo.

Its for select businesses. Not all businesses will be allowed to operate. And he also mentioned no social events.

Goke7:
even Businesses that are resuming, what are they resuming into, the Global business is still on lockdown, no flights, no social gatherings like weddings parties and co so what are traders resuming into, with the interstate travel ban, transporters will still sit at home, for the uber guys and danfo guys, how many businesses will even open and where are the events that people will flock into.

Nigerians no wise, your president just tactically removed himself from more blames, Nigerians will still cry and complain more but no one can blame FG again for lockdown

Actually the relaxed lockdown is for select businesses not business as usual.

This is what people are missing.

Jokerman:
So no weddings no party, no social gatherings, no schools and most importantly no church yet... Na wa

In the midst of a pandemic?