₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje, no problem at all, respond as you're able to. We're all patient and will wait for you. You still have Q4 and Q5 from my last post and also the pictures/adverts. Thanks and enjoy your conference.

Kunle, you're right. I was thinking of a way to take questions from people without throwing the thread into confusion. Your question is in line with my Q4 & Q5 so Jo can answer both in one shot. Thanks.

@All (on the topic of deeper life seating arrangements) please let that issue rest and let the interview continue without unecessary diversions ehn so that it'll be easier for readers to follow. Thanks.

aletheia:
^^^And that's the point Pastor AIO was making with his Amala dilemma! But sadly some didn't see it.

and I don't even blame the some that didn't see it. The topic was posted on the homepage and attracted foot-traffic that didn't have some kind of background info on PAIO or the subject or the religion section.

Baboon (which kin name be dat self? lol) & Nuke, ogas chill now . . .
Baboon, I think what Nuclear was trying to say with that analogy is that it is premature to make judgements on the morality of certain actions without the proper perspective.

Krayola:
haha. I just saw your email. CONGRATS!!! chei, that lucky man sha! God haff butta his bread and sugar his tea well well o.

The songs are available for free download and the response has been great. Thanks Shooting a few videos next month and finishing up my mix-tape. Artistes don't make no money till they are known and have established a fan base so thats what I'm working on now. No be small thing o, but e go happen. I gotta run but I will respond to your post later today. Thanks

Thank you oh my brother my own tea self sweet pas sugar. Mehn you just saw the email after like 3 months? na wa oh . . . I know say you be superstar wey get secretary wey dey check your mail for you. Make you no forget us sha . Congrats on the album and leg-work so far!

^lol.

I think both of you have a point - Bawo you need to raise your estimation of Dirk because his stats are up there, e no easy to snag mvp award like that and at the same time A-40 needs to lower his estimation of Dirk too because being a true leader is more than stats, there are intangibles that don't show up in the box scores, heart, the x-factor etc etc which Dirk does not seem to have - face it A-40, he is not a charismatic leader who can inspire a team and change an entire culture in a lockerroom like KG can.

and oh Bawo, Dirk is definitely a 1st balloter (though he may not be unanimous), how you take see am otherwise now?

Inception and Salt are two very different movies - and people will gravitate towards whichever suits their taste not erhm 'intelligence'. Inception simply requires an attentive mind to enjoy - its gift and its curse.

I enjoyed both movies for very different reasons - but I honestly enjoyed Salt a whole lot more. That movie kept me at the edge of my seat, going "dayum" every other scene and drooling for more when it was over. Salt was entertaining from start to finish. Inception while very original and gripping, was really a like a competition to see who could pay attention the hardest/longest.

Its Salt for me!

^Lol@ Image.

Wow. Lots of 'ammunition' for real Enigma lol. See detective work lol. Lets wait for Jo to respond to the last set of questions which tie in nicely with the quotes you provided.

@All, lets not 'attack' Joagbaje, but rather give him the space and comfort to explain his convictions ehn pls. Thanks everyone - including those watching behind the scenes

Beaf:
What a funny video!

9ja lawmakers should be receiving a daily dose of dirty slaps to justify their huge perks for doing nothing.

seconded.

Sagamite why you dey vex now? don't you think some politicians male and female, need to be slapped every now and then? and there's some truly practical legislation that I would support fully.

40 and Bawo you guys should do and get a room jor

Prez you know you're my dude, no wahala jor. I just don't like when u generalize like that. I know u have a good heart but your politics ehn lol get k-leg. At least u have identified one good thing from conservs! Lol. I knew u could do it

Prez you have never promised to come and see me now. Negro has so he's invited to dinner . Care to come?

Negro spring it is! No think say i go forget oh. And if you become lobbyist abeg no forget me oh, me self i need my own govt cheese

https://www.fhr-net.co.uk/imgs/news/pair_at_manchester_airport_refuse_full_body_scan.jpg

https://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/gallery/091230/GAL-09Dec30-3454/media/PHO-09Dec30-196091.jpg

https://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/brainiac/airport_xray_scanner.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/29/article-1239032-07B7C15C000005DC-551_634x724.jpg

and for the jokers . . .
https://www.cartoonaday.com/images/cartoons/2010/03/TSA-Body-Scan-598x443.jpg

My take is if its going to keep us safe from those terrorist lunatics, then unfortunately this is the new reality of flying. So submit yourself for either the full-body scan or an "enhanced" pat-down search. I've been through both and didn't really have a problem with the pat-down, big deal. And of course its guys searching guys and women searching women. What's your take?

Negro you chop political winch? this your DC state of mind hmm . . . is not healthy for you oh. My offer for dinner at that ghanian restaurant is still open

bawomolo:
the flaw of conservatism in the united states is their complacency. these guys are flat out scared of change.

A good point. Let me add that oftentimes their fear is not entirely unjustified. Whenever things get "changed" they usually don't get better.

it was 40 years ago they were worried about JFK being catholic. come 2009 and they were worried about obama being a muslim or what his nutcase pastor says.    social conservatives are some of the biggest bible hugging fear mongers ever.  fiscal conservatives are a special case.

Your statements are right - except that you're lumping an entire category of people into the same box. If you did a poll now (and rasmussen probably has stats on this), the percentage of conservs who believe according to the above will not be close to a majority. Your points are with merit, but not when you attribute them all to an entire group of people and then use that as basis for dismissal. This is the cheap way out from taking the responsibility to listen to and find the merit on the other side. Because neither is 100% right on anything.

^and the same bible says he who does not work should not eat. You are notorious for looking at issues from only one angle - a severe handicapp in my humble opinion. If you're really interested in "healing the sick" you can start in the 3rd world nations, plenty of sick to go around. Just don't deceive yourself into thinking you - and your fellow liberals have a higher moral standing because you want "free" healthcare for all.

  There are plenty of conservatives - and liberals too - quietly helping people in the way Jesus taught - from their hearts, through fellowship and communities - not by compulsion or state-sanction or a false sense of moral superiority. I have told you - self-righteousness is the bane of the political man's existence, you no wan hear.

[quote author=pres-elect link=topic=550051.msg7164895#msg7164895 date=1290037241]Good news is that nobody contested my statements bc facts are facts. Conservatives never believed in women rights back in the 1950s. These people believe a woman should be in the kitchen. They never wanted blacks to have the right to vote. In those days, conservatives and liberals belonged to both parties. Today, there almost no liberals on republican party while democrat party is dominated by liberals but there are still conservatives in the democrat party. Today they don't want full rights for LGBT community. Well, na look I de look Uk and US.[/quote]In the famous words of Mariory - can I have some fries with that? 

bawomolo:
i know we are not talking about the same king derrick that had 33pts against the spurs D . the assist numbers would come when boozer arrives. who dash rondo 25ppg and 8apg?

rondo is a small boy that should be compared with westbrook, derrick rose is only competing with deron williams ,nash and chris paul now

Mehn, this boy you really have no shame at all

Derrick Rose stat line from last night: 55% FGM, 33pts, 4 assists, 4 turnovers, 3 rebounds, efficiency -19 = 1 loss.

Rajon Rondo stat line from last night: 71% FGM, 12pts, 13 assists, 2 turnovers, 2 rebounds, efficiency +23 = 1 win

Seriously Bawo? seriously?

rickety knees for a big man that is less than 30 (he looks 40 though )? yeah the trailblazers are cursed.

only 40? the dude could pass for a mid-50's guy. He's finished in the NBA, its sad though.

. . . and oh Krayola, many christians here have already agreed that everything pertaining to life is not in the bible and indeed that could not have been the divine intent. What we're given are godly principles by which we can live by, not an exhuastive turn-by-turn manual meant to address every single issue we face.

Krayola:
@Jeseoul. wass hup? U just forget me sha. It's not good o.

Ahn ahn na you forget me now. I sent you an email complete with cupcakes with rainbow sprinkles asking for forgiveness for not replying sooner as I was occupied and off the grid for a while. Infact I saw your release self . . . oya, how many copies so far?

What do you think about eating cats, dogs, horses, zebras, monkeys? If your neighbour was killin cute little cats for their "fur" do you think God might have a problem with that? Would you eat any or some or all of them? If I killed my dog would that be a sin? What if i killed him for food would it be a sin? Are humans the only animals we are forbidden to murder in cold blood?

"Sin" is more times than not a very relative term. What might be a sin for me, might not be for you another christian. 

I just remembered that God led the Israelites in battle after commanding them not to kill. What exactly are we supposed to do with God's commands when scripture shows God involved in numerous murders?

See this:

nuclearboy:
I breed table catfish and the next time anyone here decides to visit me, will take a couple and cut them up as table fare. Would I (and guest) then be mass-murderers? Well, maybe from the point of view of the fish but would anyone here agree with them?

This Nuclearboy ehn   
  Kray, "murder" is sometimes justified, sometimes not - the real conundrum for us is being able to tell the difference - especially when you're not privy to all the details or even the big picture or even the parties involved.   

In my opinion, Jesus spent his whole ministry doing what you guys think is an abomination. Reinterpreting the scripture to serve the needs of the people in their time. I think this practice of looking for instructions on everything in a 2000 year old manual is silly. Jesus and other galiliean pharisees saw this and breathed new life into old Jewish teachings. Hence the resistance from the rigid conservative Jerusalem Pharisees, who kinda remind me of lots of christians that accuse others of diluting christianity.  That's exactly what Jesus was doing IMO. He was a reformer, and he was diluting Judaism.  Times and circumstances change, and It becomes more practical, and more doable when it's diluted.  . . . It's a new time and those standards are outdated. Damn!!   

Let's dilute Christianity. That's the new campaign. 

BTW Jesus didn't explicitly ban the use of marijuana so blame him for this post 

Dilute I think, is the wrong choice of word - Expound is way better.

All Jesus did was show and expound on the way that was already there. For example:
If God told the Isrealites not to cross river A - did God say so because ¹He hates rivers or because ²river A was dangerous? And then over time man comes to ban the crossing of all rivers everywhere no matter what.

Over time the essence of a command or directive is lost and legalism takes over such that the reason for an action being ordered in the first place was lost and people go about it ritualistically with no real effect on their hearts. So what Jesus did wasn't "diluting" it to make it applicable to that time per se - but rather showing the 'spirit' and 'heart' of the command in the first place - and showing how the essence of the command projects forward and backward to all people - defying even time and culture. Just my understanding of the matter. I know you may challenge this by bringing up some aspects the Law - but as a general construct - I hope you get my point. Cheers!

and once again can you please give us your opinion on these 2 church advertisements? thanks.

I "know" what many of the audience might be thinking after Jo's last post . . . I take issue here and there with some of your positions . . . but since this is an interview not a debate, I shall just proceed. Also for clarity sake I will reply onward as concisely as possible:

---

Joagbaje:
God didn't give us such responsibility to be searching for false ministers. He gave us the responsibility of reaching the sinners for him. But the issue of false ministers is only relative to your personal Christian life . Just incase one comes your way.who should you receive ? We should you listen to? . He didn't say we should go about hunting  for them. That's the error of many today. Theyve left the primary assignment of the church. And incidentally wrongly accuse innocent people many times Just because of doctrinal differences.

Q1: How much (to use a rather strong word) 'perversion' of doctrine does a minister have to display in order to be considered false? If a preacher consistently gets issues wrong, isn't it safe to say he has no idea what christianity is in the first place?

That doesn't make them false ministers. We have to be clear on this issue.  The fact that they cast out devils means they are genuine Christians. You can't cast out devils if you are not of him.

Q2: Do you believe the devil's agents can also perform miracles? How does this affect your reply above? Does the fact that a person can perform miracles certify them as genuine christians? Do you believe a person can claim to be performing in the name of Jesus but infact be performing by the power of the devil?

 Your answer here greatly influences the issue below:

Mt 24:24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

The passage is not for the church. This is for the tribulation saints among the Jews who are still awaiting their Jewish messiah ( the christ) satan will sent to them other false christs as the messiah .The church would have Been raptured before they are made manifest . The Antichrist and the reminat of Israel . Which is what he refered to as THE ELECT. Not the church. But of the Jews during tribulation.

  Q3: I can tell you many will strongly disagree with you here. Can you shed more light on why you think this scripture does not apply to the church today? Because this is a very big chunk of significant scripture to dismiss as inapplicable to us. I am aware of end-time positions on this matter but can you briefly summarize your stance?

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths" ------------- Based on the above, will you agree that it is possible that of the many world-known preachers/pastors (both Naija and abroad) some could be false and of the devil? And if this is possible to you, would you speak out against them if you knew of them?

Paul had issues with many philosophers and speakers in his days. He's not talking about ministers of Jesus . But rather warning tímothy against the attitude of brethren who may soon reject Timothy teaching and follow philosophers who teach in the theatres.

Q4: I'd like to challenge you further - Paul isn't talking about philosophers here - but instead leaders/teachers within the church leading people astray - Please note the use of the word "doctrine" - meaning it was within the church. And when read alongside the other scripture from Mat 24, it is in perfect harmony. So how can you convince that it is not? 

No matter the intention , no one has right to cause division in the church. If there is any issue, especially in a local church. You simply go to the pastor. For clarification. If he refuse to see things your way, you pull out to a ministry where your soul is blessed. (that's if you are right).

Some churches wash feet, some believe it's wrong. Some even baptise for the dead. So if the practice there is contrary to your convictions . You should leave quietly . I have left some churches quietly till I found my place. And the fact that I may not be satisfied with some practises does not make them false.  They only walked in the little light they had. I embrace the greater light. And I have been blessed by 1or2 things there which i should be grateful for.But I don't have right to pollute another mans sheep. Because they call the name of christ their.  This is why some churches divide over doctrines. I  rather labour in prayer. To end wrong doctrines.

I was once  a member of CHURCH OF GOD MISSION. I even enrolled in the bible school ALL. NATIONS FOR CHRIST BIBLE INSTITUTE.   I had to do industrial attachment in a church. So I did my I.T in LAST DAYS MESSANGERS MISSION. one of the churches they call "holiness church" because they tie scarf , no make up etc.  I handled the youth there and few occasion, the pastor gave me opportunity to minister whenever he travels. I once asked a sister why she doesn't wear make up . She said " our church no go gree"  I asked if she likes it, she said yes! . I asked the pastor later. Why those who like make up can't do it. He said he doesn't have anything against it but it's the system.

My point is , in the few opportunity the man  granted me which I was grateful for. I never once took advantage to poison the members against their system. The little discussion I had , I told the pastor myself.  So that the spirit of God will not start resisting me. There is orderly way to do things in Gods kingdom . He doesn't need radicals to change things. He us the holy spirit he knows what to do. Doctrines in churches have been changing over the years. We shouldn't do the job of holyspirit .

Thank you for this above. I think many of us will agree with the heart of what you're saying here. I'd like to make a very fine distinction though . . . doctrinal differences are very different from rudimental differences. This I think is the heart of the disagreement many NL christians have with you and others.

  Church A preaches Christ as a fix-all your problems tonic
  Church B preaches Christ and affixes requirements (to remain in good standing with God) 
  Church C preaches prosperity through Christ, usually neglecting the need for repentance from sin
  Church D preaches Christ but the evidence of love for their neighbor is absent by the lack in the congregation
  Church E preaches sowing of seeds almost every sunday
  Church F preaches God and fellowship
  Church G preaches Christ and salvation through faith

Do you believe they are all still preaching the same gospel? Where do you draw the line?

Jesus was anointed messiah and apostle , not a church member. Rebuke comes from top down . Nit from down up. We can air own opinions if there's forum for it but not in insults and curses and abuses. This is satanic.

I understand what you're trying to communicate here but I'd like to press further -
Q5: Can a godly church member ever rebuke the pastor if he is in error? We will soon move on from this line of discourse.

Perhaps this is why your "wife" has zero trust in you - and rightfully so:

Re: Need A Frend I Can Always Count On, Prefarably A Male: No Strings Attached.

duvaale:
Sure, you can count on me. I will light up your life again; no jokes. send me a mail today on skypowerTJ@gmail.com

Re: I Need A Decent Working Class Lady For Intimate Relationship

duvaale:
I need a decent working class lady not older than 35 yrs for intimate relationship.  I can be reached on e-mail: skypowerTJ@gmail.com . Please leave your phone number when you write.

As a side note, it may benefit all of us to re-read this article I posted over a yr ago now

Commentary: "Open Your Minds, America"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-318972.0.html#msg4477572
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/03/ruiz.closed.minds/index.html

This article is responsible for really changing my mind on how I approach politics. It helped (forgive the cliche) open my mind and greatly expand the circumference of influence I previously had. And also how to recognize BS whether its dressed in republican or democratic garb.

^ Saul was a conservative, Paul was a liberal. Goliath was a conservative, David a liberal. Pharaoh too must've been conservative, refusing to let the Isrealites free and all . . . then came Moses the Liberal to the rescue

okay I'll stop now

^ oohhhh snr brother Image stop now, you're stealing my thunder. We will get there soon don't worry . . .

LagosShia:
what happened in iraq is very sad and unfortunate.but let me also add that the article above does not help the situation or the christians in particular.it is adding fuel to fire.it is making things look like muslims are targetting christians everywhere in the middle east and that isnt true.israel,a state, has done more harm to both christians and muslims and have limited their freedom to worship.take note that about 25% of palestinians are christians.there are palestinian families that predate both Jesus and Moses in palestine and have lived there since time immemorial.israel has displaced them,seized their land and rendered them refugees.many muslim countries in the middle east have churches and christians are free.take iran as an example of tolerance.iran has the oldest churches in the world.

This is one of the main problem with muslim apologists.

  The topic is about Al Qaeda killing christians in Iraq, and it took you all but 2 sentences before you flipped the script and started talking about "Isreal" and "Occupation of 'Palestinian' land". I applaud you for denoucing the act but you should've simply stopped there instead deploying the popular tactic of deflecting to Isreal whenever accusations are pointed against any islamic republic.

Furthermore, you're citing Iran as an example of tolerance?  oh dear, this topic is too serious for these kinds of jokes oh. I watched a documentary on this "oldest church" just a few weeks ago actually. You herald it as a symbol of tolerance. Did you know the church (which is practically on the turkish border by the way) is not even used/occupied? but is rather a national tourism site? bringing in money for the govt.? and that people are not allowed to even pray in it? and that one of the sculptures on the outside of the building is that of the Ayatollah?

'Iran' and 'religious tolerance', an oxymoron if I ever saw one. The same Iran constantly in the news for human rights violations. I'll stop now cos this isn't the politics/foreign affairs section.

bawomolo:
the likes of robert murdoch are leftist
entertainment is a different world all together but the news media isn't dominated by the left.

Oga I said "dominated" not "totally controlled". FOX is the only rightist outlet - ABC, CBS, CNN, MSN etc are all left-wing - with maybe only CNN being able to somewhat claim some centricism. The domination is in terms of number - but in terms of viewership FOX is killing all of them.

  Yes entertainment is different from news - but it is still classified under "airwaves". SNL, Jon Stewart and co are not traditional news outlets, yet they have a strong influence on politics.

Joagbaje:
^^^^
Sorry o. But you know it wasnt speculation. I was just making an illustration. But I wish we can leave the petty things of the post and focus on the big picture being communicated.

At the risk of gettin side-tracked, I agree with this. Oftentimes we nitpick on possible errors with people's choice of words or illustration, when its clear the message they were trying to pass across.

Anyways . . .

---

Back to the interview:

I have to take off for the day soon but wanted to post this before leaving as I may not have the chance tomorrow. Joagbaje, after you've addressed my last set of questions (sorry I know they are a handful) can you please briefly tell us:
Q1: What you think about these kinds of church advertisements? I get these often in my inbox and it shows point blank many of the problems many christians have with churches today. Do you see/find anything wrong with them?

^I know you won't dispute that the media/entertainment world is by far dominated by the left - don't make me mention names of some lunatics please, I want my lunch to stay down

Deep Sight:
Hooray! I made the list. I have consistently offerred you peppersoup at a great joint I know. My offer remains open. I will bring a large Chessboard.

And a video camera too please for the rest of us.

What was Nuclearboy like? I imagine him to be portly, of middle-aged weight, average height, very BLACK, shaven, very yoruba, with twinking mischeivous eyes that show a wealth of rich experience whilst retaining the magic of eternal youth and childlikeness. Is he anything like that?

Kai! Lol

@Jesoul, I dey land your end next week, though i doubt as an African married woman, you can make time to see a STRANGER.

In order of increasing magnitude - there are married african women, and then there are married african women, and then there are married african women married to awesome men  you have seen him now abi? So I am taking you to dinner - by force. You have my email and FB, you better let me know when you're in town or else I'll have my contacts at Logan Airport work some magic on you.

---

sorry for all the off-topic stuff - its InesQor's fault!

^where ra di picshures now? And btw, did both of you pay "off-line meeting fee" to the treasurer before getting together?

tsmith:
MAfe - i suggest you get Zubeyr contact details and follow up extensively offline. Despite your willingness for volunteer work, you would need a paid job to keep body and soul together

ALL - Any NLers in the Washington, Maryland, Baltimore, Virginia area willing to offer any form of help; pick up a brother from Dulles airport on 2nd December, accommodation for a couple of days, weeks or even share board or any form of help that we all know a JJC to town will need, having it in mind that God sees and knows all. He will bless you richly for your help and inconvenience(s), knowing your inner most needs and ensuring that these are met.

I bet some ppl might ask whc one is mine own? But as i have helped in d lil' way i could, i have taken MAFE's case as my cross to bear or say pet project, LOL. But really i strive to ensure anything I am involved in turns out a success.

In all, i bet everyone wishes for a happy sojourn when we can all look back and be proud of the community help. May i say a big thank you to Jesoul, Busybody, d anonymous donor, contributors, silent readers and all!

(PS, everyone should bear with me if my post is filled with typos, as d screen keeps flicking, makes proof reading a hugh task, moreover, i have got my "baby" head on today, so not communication in adult language)

Tsmith thanks for your dedication and help to Mafe, may your star never cease to shine well.

It hasn't gone as easily as I hoped finding something for Mafe but in spite of that I am certain we will figure it out. I have told him not to worry that I'll do everything within my power to make sure he's not left helpless in DC. TSmith, like you, I have taken his case personal too. Worst case he will come over to Boston where I can help him directly navigate getting planted - SSN, ID, search for jobs etc . . . those who want to still help, mafe could still use funds!

Thanks to everyone esp tsmith, BB.

bawomolo:
17 pts in the 4th quarter for derrick rose

rajon who? yes i'm looking for trouble

Abeg go siddon jor it took almost 2 weeks for Rose to put up any remotely worthy numbers for you to use against Rondo and you're here opening mouth like a town crier this boy, you no get am for shame?

I dunno if I'll use 'Don Nelson' and 'genius in the same sentence . . . yes he has some solid W's under his belt - he has also run some crappy teams as well.

justkunmi:
Hey folks, I'm back,
Guess I ddnt miss anythin cos nothin happened in here. Had to go dig up d thread frm the second page!!

Can we get this place back up and runnin?

Sure. Just a few fees you have to pay -
Dormancy fee
Re-activation fee
Re-opening fee
Rememberance of movies we've already discussed fee
Return of regular posters fee
Smooth flowing fee
Summation fee
Fee of listing of fees
Labor fee

  Once you pay all the above to the treasurer then you can officially re-open shop.

[quote author=pres-elect link=topic=550051.msg7157570#msg7157570 date=1289939652]Jesoul

don't confuse palin haters for liberals.
Liberals are thinkers, not haters. Liberals get things done, conservatives love status quo.
Liberals started the tea party rebellion in Boston in 1775. Conservatives wanted to remain under king georgeIII

liberals extended voting rights to all white men in the 1820s, conservatives opposed it.
Liberals fought the banks and a liberal president Andrew Jackson was the first and only president to hand over without any debt. The banks fought him, conservatives opposed him, called him jackass( which became the donkey symbol of the democratic party)

Liberals ended slavery ( no matter the cost, didn't think of deficit) conservatives opposed it

liberals gave women the vote in 1919, conservatives opposed it

liberals gave civil rights to blacks and women, conservatives opposed it.

Today, liberals want healthcare for all, conservatives oppose it.
Liberals want full rights for gays, conservatives oppose it.

We shall see by 2045 who won.
Get to know a liberal. It's liberating.[/quote][quote author=pres-elect link=topic=550051.msg7157632#msg7157632 date=1289940094]Conservatives in continental congress vehemently opposed war with king George.
Conservatives opposed extending voting rights to all white men.
Conservatives opposed freeing the slaves.
Conservatives opposed giving women voting rights
conservatives opposed civil rights
conservatives love status quo.

Conservative creed" I'm fine, screw you."[/quote]You know I'm your sister so I'll try to say this as nicely as I can - you need to invest in new text and history books - not the ones Nancy Pelosi and Soros endorsed when they were -160 years old. The way you talk, one would think Liberals were saints a la Jesus Christ, and conservatives are the incarnation of satan to the power of 10. Liberals are right and everyone who dares disagree is wrong. Self-righteousness - the bane of the political man's existence.