₦airaland Forum

Nice topic.

As you astutely note, we do not "need" God to tell us what is morally right or wrong, and I believe this is so because we already have a moral compass inherently built in us by which we can use to calibrate our motives and measure the morality of a action -

Rom 2: For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

. . . though sometimes it is not always black and white on what is right or wrong. God's laws are written on our hearts, and the way I see it, it also doesn't hurt to have them also written on paper or should I saw stone.

Recovered? hmm. I suspect NL will be a very sad place for me for sometime. Thanks for your cheer though brother, I saw ur very sweet comments on the "POY" thread and they really put a smile on my face, thank you

As for your love for mogs . . . care to explain why?

[quote author=petres_007 link=topic=563807.msg7297130#msg7297130 date=1291832299]That's the brand name for the yearly Dec 7 event marking Pastor Chris[b]t[/b]'s birthday. Its an opportunity to outgive/outdo other cec plc members (as an individual) and other satellite churches and groups (if you're a church or group).

Funny, but I remember now that this Dec 7 thingy was one of the straws that broke the camel's back for me back then. The satellite church I attended was a super broke one (till today  ) despite all of our then pastor's efforts to get us to walk in this ever so elusive supernatural abundance. We just kept getting broker and broker 

I remember he stood up [in really great faith, I suppose] in church one year like that about a month to Oyaks' birthday and announced that all other churches had started mobilising their members to give big to the man of god and that he wanted us, as a church, to give something really big that'll surprise the other churches in the group. He then announced that he'd decided we contribute to the sum of N500,000 to give as a birthday gift to Oyaks.

Jokes aside, my jaw hit the floor. 

I then looked around to see my fellow cec members who obviously were a struggling group, most of whom I could swear were probably having problems feeding properly, paying children's school fees etc. Couldn't stop wondering where even N50,000 could come from. Let alone N500,000!

Needless to say, we never got anywhere close to the sum.[/quote]I am very interested in what CEC members, especially Joagbaje have to say about Petres account here. Thanks in advance.

These kinds of manipulative tactics aimed at getting people to "give" . . . I was at a service once, the pastor asked for offering, for people to bring it one by one to the stage, he had the audacity and shamelessness to demand he did not want any offering less than $100. I almost went up there with $1, just to see what he would do/say.

Vicjustice - for being a constant, trustworthy source of information

Justwise - for being the sections watchdog and truly the scammers worst nightmare

Please continue here-https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-492875.0.html

I am still hoping this whole thing is just one sick joke and Bawo will log in and laugh at all of us . . . but I guess I am hoping in vain.

On a regular monday morning (such as this one), I would log in to NL - and head straight to the Sports section, to recap the NFL (american football) games from the weekend. We would brag about our teams victory and make correct fun of whoever's team lost. There's only a small handful of us who watch NFL (and NBA too) religiously on NL so we're a very small fun group and we have been over there bantering since 2007.

The NBA/NFL threads are the place where I have the most fun on NL - handsdown. All we did was laugh, make fun of each other, joke, analyze games/players, make more fun of each other, cross over from sports to other issues sometimes. There was never one single fight, just a constant barrage of hilarious quotes and comments. Chiogo and myself would constantly banter with Bawo over who was better - Rondo or Rose, lol. Please click on this link, read the whole page of comments and laugh your heart out. Bawo was central to the humor and good laughs we all had.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-344420.1472.html  and the nfl thread here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-170354.2272.html

Here are some random comments from him:

Bawo- if rondo outplays rose today, i would jump into lake michigan 

  Celtics win and Rondo over-outplays Rose. Day after, Bawo is back as usual like nothing happened:

Chiogo - And you're still here?

Bawo - i was intoxicated when i made that statement 

Jesoul - you are always intoxicated when you make any statement 

jesoul - noah is a certified all-star this year. i would donate 100 dollars to the republican party if he doesn't make the all-star team

true talk. in no time, you , jesoul, and chiogo would have derrick rose posters on your bedroom walls

thank you jesus, thank you my lord, the bulls have finally won, it's all by your grace.

And when the Chicago bears traded for Jay Culter, he serenaded us with this song,

Jay Cutler is a Bear.

My life don better.

bye bye to jati jati

bye bye to rex grossman

bye bye to jatil jatil

bye bye to kyle orton

in the name of jesus

bye bye to jati jati

Welcome Jay cuter, welcome      
i can just image that superbowl parade through Chicago.

I mean you could not see anyone more passionately deluded about the prospects of his team (though they sucked to the core) winning it all, lol. It didn't matter what the record or score was, Bawo believed they were winning it all. It was so much fun to laugh at and with him. I will so miss that. His wit and most especially humor - and not because he is now gone that I say these nice things, but it was really true.  

  I also had the pleasure of clashing cymbals with Bawo elsewhere on NL, foreign affairs, religion etc - the raving liberal that he is - lol. We went back and forth so much, in the end we would just end up laughing. This seems to be a theme with everyone who hung with him. He was not mean-spirited, never took offense when he was insulted (I used to admire that so much), never lost his temper. Infact self, I developed a small crush on him - he was just that cool. I hope he doesn't read this part and come back to taunt and make fun of me, lol.

 I'm a christian and Bawo's faith was on the other end of the spectrum - but if you ask me, he exhibited that trait that Jesus called greater than everything else - LOVE for your fellow man. And if you put all my posts together and sort by 'replied to the most', it would be revealed that he was the NLder that conversed with the most. Saying I will miss him is an understatement. I pray his family is consoled by the fact he was a great ambassador, he was able to touch so many in the short time he had. We can all learn from him, and let his loving memory live on.

And to you Bawo, I just have 2 things to say -
1. You were a great person and I will miss you more than you can imagine,
2. the Bears are still going down this season bro   and I'll tell Rondo you've finally submitted your apology.
 RIP Bawo my dear friend. RIP.

^we have all been hoping against hope Chic2.

It is beyond devastating, for him to be taken in such a cruel way. The Celtics play his Bulls tonight . . . I will probably weep again if I see one second of it. I've been tearing since I heard this morn. This is so so wrong and hurts so so bad.

Joagbaje, thanks for the reply. I will be back probably next week to continue. The news of my good friend Bawo's death has rendered me totally devastated and heart-broken. I cannot post coherently right now. Thanks for your patience.

I hope and wish Bawo knew how much we his friends here loved him. There is a huge hole in my heart today and for me, especially with how much time I usually spend with him and A-40 in the sports section, NL will never be the same. I was thinking just yesterday to cast him as my favorite sports section poster not knowing the fate that had befallen him         I will miss his wit and humor, I never saw him once throw or return an insult. What a brilliant guy, mature beyond his years. What a terrible loss for the world.

My heart breaks even more for the family left behind. It hurts so much for us but imagine his father, mother, sister, brother      I pray their hearts be comforted in this unimaginably difficult time.

Bawo my bawo      I will miss you more than you could ever imagine. Rest in peace the gentle soul that you are.

A-40 I am truly devastated. I have been useless since I got the news this morning. This place will never be the same without our Bawo. It will be a while before I can even bring myself to post anything coherent . . . gosh Bawo, we loved you bro, I loved you

I cannot believe this. I just can't. Bawo please please please log in and save us from this grief . . .

I just logged in only to see Mukina's msg in my inbox.

I am devastated to the core. Trying to keep my composure here at work. I don't even know what to say . . . please let all of this be just a big misunderstanding. Please

^Nicely done comrade.
Gosh this is tough . . . lemme think about this for a bit.

Rhino please don't throw insults.

Mudley, continue playing the victim card. Did anyone "jab" at you before you first attacked and insulted the OP (who remained cordial with you btw)? Is Manmustwac an atheist also biased too?

You're not the only atheist here - infact I don't even remember the last person MMW or myself warned besides you. Haba, do you enjoy all this attention? Obey the rules and no one will disturb you. Respect others and it will be reciprocated. And stop playing the victim card whenever you're chastized.

for any interested, here's a nice article breaking down the whole tax-cut/rate issue.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-30/bush-tax-cut-puzzle-has-six-pieces-that-need-to-fit-together-with-brackets.html

Toba my dearest, I am fine jare. I have missed you here, hope everything is fine with you.

Uyi, Mudley has made his name as a trouble-maker here, we all know that. However you're also engaging in word-slinging and yes, insulting him too. Please carry on with the thread topic and stop the jabbing.

Mudley final warning to you. Stop gate-crashing threads like this one, if you want to vent about a God you don't believe exists, please open a new thread.

@Joagbaje, thanks for the lengthy response. Lets continue . . .

At this point I want to clarify that the discussion is not necessarily about whether tithes are false or not - but whether they are a requirement for NT christians

---

JeSoul:
Q1: You said the Law "amplified" the importance of tithes. What other pre-Law practices/traditions carry over to today?

Joagbaje:
prayers, offerings,tithing ,vows etc.  They are based on spiritual principles

I don't think prayer qualifies as a "tradition" no more than 'meditating on God's word' does. We're talking biblical practices/commands/directives that existed pre-Law that are still relevant today.
Q1: Same as before, you've mentioned tithing, are there any others?

I used 1corinthians. Paul was making references to tithes and offerings here. Since the levitical order is over. Jesus is the new high priest and his church is the institution where  sacred givings and sacrifices are made .

Paul was making reference to the levitical order here , contrasting it with the church.

With Malachi 3 in mind, this scripture throws in more light.

As Cmanforall noted, you didn't fully answer Q2 directly, permit me to repeat it here again.
Q2: How do you differentiate btw which OT scriptures and Laws are still applicable to us?

It's only faith that grants a Christian standing before God. But there are also deeds of. Faith by which we demonstrate our faith in God such as prayer,giving, studying and meditation on the word and worship, soulwinning etc. All these have their graces.

Q3: What are the repercussions if a believer is lacking in any of these "deeds" you listed above?

Paul acknowledge the practise of tithing in heberews 7. .
Hebrews 7:8 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he[ receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
The chapter talks about the change of order in the priesthood . Melchizedek priesthood brought about the revelation of tithe in the first place. So the world move from Order of Melchizedek to levitical Order and now back to Melchizedek  The tithe collecting order.

Both Kunle and Zikky have pointed out some problems with your quote here above, I'll paraphrase their questions/comments
Q4: Heb 7 mentions tithes, but reading further down the chapter reveals that Paul dismisses the old system as "weak" and "useless". What is your response to this?
 

If tithing was wrong, Jesus would have condemned it . He condemned observation of sabbath he condemned "an eye fo an eye" and some other issues in the law.Jesus okays tithing (Matt 23:23) ,  If he had come to abolish tithing , he wouldn't have endorsed it.

You make a good but perhaps flawed point. There are many things one could cite Jesus didn't explicitly condemn but were obviously wrong. And you sort of shoot yourself in the foot when you subsequently follow the above with this bit:

The early apostles didn't need to give special lectures on tithing . It was their lifestyle. We should understand that not everything was said in the epistles. The epistles were not written to complete the bible. The fact that the bible was silent about certain issues didn't mean they were not practised. They wrote about issues affecting the churches.

Q5: You assert that tithing was a "lifestyle" for the early apostles and if there was a change then it would've been mentioned - can you prove this from the bible? 

Q5: What are the benefits of tithing in your opinion? are these benefits available exclusively to only those who tithe?

Every spiritual deed make certain grace to abound Upon us. They can't be quantify. Financial Security, life security,doors of opportunity and ideas. Increase in revelation. Beign rightly positioned  Etc. We can't say all because they are spiritual.

Thanks for the answer, however you missed the second part of it
Q6: are these benefits available exclusively to only those who tithe?

You can't have multiple pastors at a given time. You can't be submitted to one pastor and your financial commitment is not done there. A pastor is a spiritual father. One father at a time. Paul says you have only one father.
You may read books by many authors, but you should have one pastor that you are submitted to. Your heart and your treasure have to be in one place.

Q7: But if the church of Christ is one, and by tithing you're giving to God - not the pastor - why can't a person tithe sometimes to/at another church?

Thank you for the rest of your reply. I don't want to muddy the post too much so I leave those out for now.

Mudley and Uyi, cut out the fighting or else.

megastu:
Sorry about your experience. Next time, at JFK, just use the bus TO Port Authority. It is cheaper and saves you stress. Also, whenever you get to a strange place, never behave like a stranger. Infact be bouncing with you load like you have come back home. When the conductor asked me for a tip. I refused and started speaking like a jamaican. It was later i realised that the tip was supposed to be actually given.

Korrect Naija boy

Dis Guy:
You'd be amazed!!

I was reading one poster's experience about Norway or one other Scandinavian country, apparently he went for company training, he could attend all the lectures cos it was extremely cold especially not being prepared and he wondered how people survived there
_{I just wonder what sort of company employ him cos I will fire his backside for being dumb!}

LOL Its like going to Alaska and being suprised its cold and frozen everywhere.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=559737.msg7255279#msg7255279 date=1291243925]If I may ask again, what evidence did you have from Obama's previous services in the Private or Public sector of the economu that gave you the confidence that he will be able negotiate and bring to pass the promises that you think he made during the campaign. Like I said, this is a case of Obama not living up to the image that people built in their minds. [/quote]Gbam left right and center. That woman in the video thought Obama would buy her gas and pay her mortgage and extreme example but is indicative of the truly unrealistic expectations his believers placed on him.

^Tayo you're right - I should've made that distinction in my post.

I was speaking more in general terms. Its often to hear dems/repubs say they'll frustrate the efforts of the other party to get any bills passed. That is the attitude many americans are tired of. In this instance saying they want to focus on accomplishing the tax issue before anything else I think is a fine move, it'll force them all to address it, and I think it will be addressed.

As a side question, the tag-line "the Bush tax-cuts for the wealthy" . . . I wonder which category of people are being refered to here as 'wealthy'. Do you know? Households making more than $100,000 & above or is it $250,000 above?

. . . the most controversial issue for real. Lol. Thanks to all those who've made comments/questions - and to Kunle for the 'counter-attack' lol. I will be back in a jiffy to continue.

@poster, please see this link that supplies a plethora of threads related to tithing.

http://www.google.com.ng/cse?cx=partner-pub-6465801557104924%3Abko28ysgdng&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=tithe&siteurl=www.nairaland.com%2Fnigeria%2Ftopic-560801.0.html

obinna5000:
The Unclothed Gun Starring: JeSoul, Obinna5000, Vescucci, Ijaw_Girl & JK.

Who's the protagonist/antagonist?

@justkunmi
Where you at??

Don't mind him, he'll soon come and ask us where everybody is

[quote author=pres-elect link=topic=559737.msg7253837#msg7253837 date=1291228200]Jesoul,
this thread is about negotiating ability. Never mind someone came here and started trying to change it and looking for blames. You and I can never agree on what is right or wrong policy. The healthcare bill you say American people don't like, I agree, but I think they don't like it bc it is not enough. You may think the bill is too much. So we can always disagree on policy. There clueless voters in every county and party, when Obama campaigned that tax cut is for middle class he wasn't on drugs. This thread is not about which tax policy is better but about Obama being weak in negotiations. When liberals see tax cuts for the rich, and unemployment benefits for the poor stopped, do you think there'll be turnout of liberals like 2008? NO! Democrats are still in charge in DC.[/quote]Okay that much I definitely give to you. I was just trying to show how having a high-negotiating prowess may not necessarily be a positive in some situations.

Now I hear GOP has made a statement to oppose everything the democrats try to do on the lameduck except tax cut. Just after the meeting with Obama, the negotiator. Lol.

Now that is one thing I am on your side with. I don't agree when statements like "we will oppose democrats/republicans no matter what" are made. They are infantile and indicative of the brat-ish nature leadership has fallen to. There are very few adults left on Capitol Hill . . . lets hope they are enough to actually do something.

montelik:
@ Jesoul. Why did you bring out that poor ladies statements again. Abeg lets leave people like her, Joe the plumber and co out of d spotlight

Oga the thing just funny me anytime I hear am  can you imagine someone actually believed that would happen to her if Obama became president? and no one took the time then to bring her back down to reality and discourage others from such crack-pipe dreams.

eldee doesn't want to admit the "unrealistic-ness" of 24's Jack Bauer   issok.

I dunno how ppl can open their eye and praise Inception for the very same characteristic they insult Salt for - genre difference or not. Movies by definition are usually not realistic. Eldee, no be you just post video wey talk say -

'Just because an idea is overly complex doesn't make it cool, it sounds like a very silly idea

And@topic,
I also dunno why Inception has become something of an "elitist" movie for "brilliant" people   the only thing required is your attention (and patience if I may add), not intellect. You ppl are making me diss this movie - I actually liked it self (minus that yeye soundtrack).

^sorry there are a ton of questions in this post:

Joagbaje:
@Jesoul
Tithing is based on spiritual laws. It is our worship to God ,recognising him as our provider. It came by revelation in the life of men of faith who had walked with God. It did not originate under the law of Moses . The law only amplified it's importance. It was  an institution under the priesthood of Melchizedek who was greater than Abraham .
 
After the Levitical order was over, we've been brought back under the Melchizedek order. Tithing was an institution under him in time past and in paul's day and also now. Jesus is our high priest in the Order of Melchizedek . There is no scripture that made mention of stopping tithing. As long as there is a high priest there must be tithing. Even if tithing was instituted under the law, it still stands because it's based on spiritual laws. There are things instituted. Under the law that are still binding in our lives today because they are based on spiritual principles, such as honouring your father and mother.But tithing and offerings existed before the law. If a man say I will only give offerings but I don't believe in tithes, the same principles hold the two of them . They existed before the law. God says you rob me in TITHES and OFFERINGS. They go together , you can't just choose  only one of them. And if you say "I will not give either of the two"  are you saying we should not worship God by our giving?. So which ever way we look at it. Tithes and offerings still stands. It's our worship to God to honour him as our source and provider.

Q1: You said the Law "amplified" the importance of tithes. What other pre-Law practices/traditions carry over to today?

Q2: You've said not all of the OT Law was abolished and you've used an OT scripture (Malachi) to support your stance here. How do you differentiate btw which OT scriptures and Laws are still applicable to us? Is it possible you're using that scripture out of context? if not pls explain why.

Q3: Do you believe that under the dispensation of grace, that there are still certain requirements christians must perform in order to remain in good standing? if yes, what are these requirements?

Q4: If tithing is still a requirement today, why do you think none of the writers in the NT said so? or are themselves recorded as having tithed? or taught their congregations/churches to do so?   

it's just like prayer and fasting. Do we say it's optional?. Well God will not force anybody to pray. The issue is prayer has benefit in our lives. It shows our reverence and submission to God. If you don't pray, you lose the benefit that comes with it. The same thing goes for tithing. If you don't tithe , you lose the benefit that comes with it.

Many will argue that prayer is very much unlike tithing but let us continue . . .
Q5: What are the benefits of tithing in your opinion? are these benefits available exclusively to only those who tithe?

God specified where we should put our tithes. It is the place where his name is called. A believer is supposed to tithe under the pastor  There was another10 % in Israel that is gathered and shared with the poor and strangers in Israel every 3years. This was different from the regular tithes.

Q6: Can you show us in the scriptures where it is specified to tithe to/under only your pastor?

Q7: So there were different tithes. Are there also different tithes today as well? if yes, what are they?

To get very technical here . . .

Q8: How often is a believer supposed to tithe? on what are they supposed to tithe? their income? gifts? monetary or otherwise? if he's a farmer, his produce? etc.

Q9: If a believer has a debt, can he skip the tithe for that instance and pay his debt?

eldee:
Jack was always on drugs. . . since Season 4 or sumn.
And we always saw them inject him and clean him up whenever the teams came around.

common now eldee . . . common, no amount of paramedic first-aid can cure a man that fast - abi Jack has wolverine's quick-healing abilities? No amount of gauze, saline and band-aid can heal a gunshot wound in 20 mins.   

Heheh . . .Playing the gender card eh?? We've seen Michelle Yeoh in tomorrow never dies kick James Bond's backside and it didn;t seem weird, this is just different.

Not really playing the card per se . . . this discussion came up on another thread and the trend I noticed is all the guys disliked Salt and all the girls liked it - same here. The only conclusion I can arrive at is gender bias - add that to the fact Jolie is frequently seen as a sex symbol - casting her as a badass spy is tough.

All in all, I am upset at the haters of this movie, cos they're going to deny me the pleasure of a part two ever being made   

Cmeo,

as much as I hate to say this (cos you suffered a tough break) it was really your fault you got scammed. Before travelling you should've done your research online or checked with the airport info desk and followed that plan strictly. In every airport are these criminals and will target unsuspecting or unprepared travellers.

In Paris earlier this year as we were walking out one black dude approached us and said the same "Taxi?" we said yes, how much? he told us 100 euros. He quickly asked where we were from and proceeded to "chat us up" nicely so we'd relax and see him as a friendly face. He even helped with our luggage as we walked out. We asked him how much the bus was, he said it was the same price for 2 ppl and insisted we could get no cheaper for where we were going. We told him to wait inside and we would be back. We went and asked around at the info desk.

Long story short, he was a big fat liar. We found a shuttle bus for 25 euros that dropped us off 2 blocks from our hotel. Criminals are everywhere - you must shine your eye ppl!