₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje:
The bible talks about false teachers and false brethren coming into the body of christ. They are  individuals that Satan lay hold on in the church. To penetrate and poison the body with polutions. These individuals will attack structures in the church, speak against men of God , try to win peoples approval by claiming they are fighting for the masses. .

2 Peter 2:1-3
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Jesus had laid structures in his body, but these individuals will go against such word based structures and thereby deny his lordship by rejecting the authority of the word. throu

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of

These are individuals that brings public shame to the body of christ. They will have no respect for authorities in the church.

2 Peter 2:10-13
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous[ are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. [/b]11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

They say evil things about what they don't understand

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, [b]speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


The first sign of these self acclaimed false teachers is attack against Gods ordained institution in the body of christ by speaking evil of ministers of God. And such take delight in making mockery of spiritual things .

Jude 1:16-19
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling[ words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Thanks Jo.
Q1: How do you determine which ministers/pastors/preachers etc are really "ordained of God"? The bible speaks of satan taking the form of an angel of light. So far you have touched on obvious signs of a false brother, what about the not-so-obvious signs? Jesus also spoke of how many will come to Him on the last day claiming to have performed miracles and signs in His name - Jesus said He never knew them. Jesus also spoke about "great leaders/teachers" leading many astray -

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Mt 24:24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths

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Based on the above, will you agree that it is possible that of the many world-known preachers/pastors (both Naija and abroad) some could be false and of the devil? And if this is possible to you, would you speak out against them if you knew of them?


Q2: Related to Q1. How do you seperate a false brother from a brother who is speaking out against falsehood? Because both would appear to be "causing division in the church" or "speaking against men of God", how do you know the difference as Jesus Himself could have been accused of causing division in the "church" by challenging the Pharisees and other accepted leaders of the time.

No, there is no false church but there can be false doctrine and false brethren in the church. And the word of God has rules  .

Firstly , what is falsehood .The fact that we don't agree on every doctrine should not make me call you false. Division in the body of christ is satins strategy, and many so called Christians are playing into his hand. There are a thousand and one doctrinal differences . But we ought to accept one another provideded we are born again.

In one churches like assemblies or deeper life , it is wrong for men and women to sit together . But in CEC , house on the rock , they sit together. In one church , they can't shake hands with opposite gender, in another they not only shake hands they hug . Some even do holy kiss.( on the cheek) while to some it's abomination. All these differences have been there from the beginning of the church. Some eat all things , some don't.

Romans 14:1-6
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye,[ but] not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day[ alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth[ it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard[ it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

So on what ground do we call someone false? By our limited knowledge or by the word. And if we believe a minister has false doctrine  . Our first responsibility is prayer to get him out of the mess. And if we have opportunity. We share with him in love to see the errors . Just like  was corrected by pricsilla and her husband acquila (acts18:24-26). And we don't correct with insults and abuses . Because if you become judgemental , you set a trap for yourself.

James 3:1
1 Dear brothers, don't be too eager to tell others their faults, for we all make many mistakes; and when we teachers of religion, who should know better, do wrong, our punishment will be greater than it would be for others.

Fowl language against the church, or ministers is a big  error. "despising dominion" right from Old Testament to the new. Not even ministers alone . Even brethren . You don't call Gods people a name their father has not called them. That doesn't make us more spiritual. Your spirituality is first evident in your speech.

That is the error some posters here have entered without knowing.

James 3:9-16
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet[ water] and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so[ can] no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13 Who[ is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but[ is] earthly, sensual, devilish. 16 For where envying and strife[ is], there[ is] confusion and every evil work

Thanks again for the above. You said some very good things many of us can improve on. I'd like to pick on you on a few things though . . .

Q3: Jesus is famous for using scathing words against the Pharisees on a few occasions - calling them white-washed tombs, brood of vipers/serpents, blind guides etc also some of the NT writers had strong words for false teachers. Going by your submission above, do you see any instance in our time where the need for strong scathing language against the false leaders would arise? Since Jesus and the early leaders actively did it?

The bible says every body should be persuaded in his own mind. Why will you condemn someone for his persuasion in the Word? let the master judge him. Can we escape God?

If there are  false ministers , God says we should not listen to them.especially if he contradicts Pauls teachings. Paul says the curse of God will be on the fellow. Not my curse or abuse not Kunle curse. How I'm I certain I'm right in the first place to judge and condemn a minister whom God has accepted. Those who do such only prove that they are children in spiritual understanding. Our first duty is to pray against such evil doctrine.

It is against the rules even in evangelism to attack other faiths and especially, the leaders. When you communicate truth without the spirit of love , you've lost it,  

But talking about the body of christ ,What do we do? Two things . We pray and we teach the truth.then leave the rest for God. Jesus knows what to do in his body . In our bid to take laws into our hand . We work against christ himself. And destroy the body we feel we are protecting.  Jesus gave us clear outline here.

Matthew 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

I think this scripture is more than enough for everyone of us.

I'm sure many will agree there is the need to communicate the truth with love. And this bounces back to my Q3 -
Q4 - Jesus once angrily turned over the tables at the temple and drove the traders out with a whip. Paul asked his congregation once if they prefered he'd come with love or a whip. Is there any instance to you where not only love is necessary, but also harsh and strongly-worded delivery like Jesus and Paul?

Thanks so far Jo!

PastorAIO, did you not read my first response well?

You're obviously using a computer to type right now - this is grossly unbiblical! Dude you need to correct the error of your ways before its too late oh! You have obviously worn jeans and used motorized vehicles, you've been sinning incessantly. Hmm . . . you have been warned. Let him who has ears hear well well . . .

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Okay on a more serious note , like Inesqor mentioned, it was obvious the point you were trying to make from the title alone, and also obvious some people would not get it - especially when its posted on the front page and people without background info or knowledge on the religion section or you would not get it - doesn't necessarily mean they are idiotas like DS hollered.

Spambot at work again. I've msgd Seun to untag . . .

^2yrs is even pushing it at this rate. McNabb is so schizo. One week he plays genuis, the next like a chump 4th stringer. I don't get him. Someone this inconsistent does not deserve the starting job, talkless of a hefty extension, until they get their head right. I'd be upset at management if I were a Skins fan.

I'm so happy for Micheal Vick ehn all my campaigning during his trials and crucifixion were not in vain. Vick continue to conquer jor. Dog lovers eat your hearts out

Redskins signing McNabb to a 5-yr extension? sometimes I wonder after seeing bone-headed moves like these, I could've made such a great GM.

Mariory:
That's funny. An individual living in England complaining about Americans voting against a system they see as the opposite of the entire concept of America and her founding fathers.

Americans hate big government. Obama is all about big government (Socialism) as his main policies show. It isin't that hard to understand.

Mariory, no, those americans are racist!

We're seeing the domino effect - country after country in dire straits. We're in the era of bail-out abi? they will be rescued.

omoimole:
i think this topic is valid and timely. i think we need to be sure because many Christians, churches and ministries are not giving due attention to end-times issues. obviously, all the 3 'time' views of the rapture can not be true. which of these does the scripture support?.

That's the problem omoimole, the scriptures can be used to support all those viewpoints. We can discuss to death but the fact is no real conclusion can positively be made on the times and dates of end-time prophecies. We can speculate but can't really put a firm finger on which is right.

The only thing we can do is to be prepared at all times for His return with our lamps like the 5 Wise Virgins.

Joagbaje:
It would have been better if you deal with a particular scripture to explain the point. I have preached both I know the difference
Your sins shall find you out
The soul that sinneth shall perish
You cannot escape the fire of hell and BRRRRIMESTONE! ( the "r" of the brimestone used to be so sweet to call). I have preached the two sides and i know that scaring people to salvation does not build a lasting relationship. It is build on religious fear of terror. If such people hear that there is no more hell. They will be dancing on rhe street. I have been in some churches and i know the message that works.

I didnt say we shouldn't talk about hell and sin. They are all part of the word of God. The problem is the way of communication. There us a way I can correct someone and he happily learns and there's another way I intend to correct but only succeed in making the person condemn.

God is love and he wants people to know that. He is not trying to damn people to hell. They are damned already. He wants them to know his love has made provision for them . That's what the gospel message if for , that God has made a way out of the impending doom. And also he has called us into a life of dominion . Over sin, sickeness ,poverty and death.

All these are in incapsulated in the life in christ. So our emphasis is the good news of the life in christ. Not how hot the temperature of hell is. The gospel means "good news " so it explains itself. The good news of what christ did for us.

Thanks! I think this clears the air on where you stand on one of the fundamentals of the gospel.

It is against my convictions in the word God to criticise a man that God is using. Even if I dont understand him or believe in his structure. If Gods grace is evident in a man. I should be careful so that I don't sin. God knows why he chose him.

Okay no problem, I can respect that. I will ask in a more general sense now -
Q1: what about false teachers/prophets/pastors? how do you handle the issue of false brethren in the midst of the church? how do you recognize a man/woman is truly not of God and do you speak out on it? expose the person as a wolf in sheeps clothing? or if not why?

Q2: Related to Q1. Do you believe there are false churches out there? what should be the body's attitude to them? hostile or indifferent? do you believe we have/don't have an obligation to speak out against them?

I only offered him some much more entertaining alternatives to "News" stations. He doesn't need watch all.

And oh, I know liberals very well. There are many reasonable ones, but the looney ones unfortunately rule the airwaves. And accpet it or not, it is obvious their vendetta against all-things Palin is very personal and vicious and venomous. One would think Palin and her family stole their lunch money or girlfriend the way they attack any and everything she says. They say she's insignificant, not important, yet they spend so much time and effort trying to discredit and disparage her . . . one has to wonder.

MzWumi:
No one knew what I wanted to do so no one would even open their mouths. Plus everyone knows that I don't take nonsense, so who can dare question something that is none of their business. The only person that knew was my uncle, not even my own mama. I told her while we were in the limo heading towards the church. Everyone thought I would have my uncle walk me down the aisle, so when I told him that I wanted my mother, he agreed. I didn't tell my mom because she is a big traditionalist and is always worrying about what people think!
She was very shocked at my idea, she didn't like it. I told her that if she was not willing to walk me down then I will refuse to get out of the limo, so she didn't have an option!

My mom has been there for me through thick and thin. She has endured years of suffering all for my sake, and on my day of glory, why should I let a "man" take credit for her hard work just for tradition sake? That is complete bull crap!

FYI, we also had a mother daughter dance as well, lol

Lol I like this girl, you no send at all

I'm glad many people are interested in hearing Joagbaje out. Thanks Enigma, DS and Kunle for the comments - and thanks Aletheia & Nuc for keeping the peace .

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Lets continue the interview :

Joagbaje:
Yes , primarily, I got born again , partially through the fear of hell, but the main thing that terrified me in their message was the reign of the beast. I used to think the beast was a tall animal. They shared that in yoruba and called it "Eranko" ( animal/ beast) I remember asking , Cant someone climb the leg of the beast and hide under him? So I was more terrified about being left behind and being chased . Nowhere to hide , being caught and being torn apart by animals. I was told that my two legs will be tied to two different horses and as they run in different directions I would be torn apart. I was told that on the day of the rapture , thunder will strike from one end of heaven to the other, then there will be a loud alarm in heaven. So every time the formation of the cloud change , I would start praying for forgiveness. I had my childhood "sins".

But the particular day I really gave my heart, the cloud was so dark, the wind was boisterous, then there were thunderings all over. And  I heard a loud long alarm, not knowing that It was a police siren,   I was convinced that the beast was coming that day , so I prayed. " PLEASE, JESUS, SAVE ME, I GIVE MY LIFE TO YOU. It was when I came out to see how many were left behind that I knew the rapture hadn't taken place and that it was a police siren car that was being repaired. Behind the barrack where we stayed in Ibadan (iyaganku barracks)  my dad was police.

I don't know about others, but I find this story endearing and I chuckled several times. The innocence of a child-like mind . . . this will be a major player as we go forward.

Joagbaje:
The difference is between condemnation,fear and love. Salvation through fear is not a good foundation. And message of the love of God.  My understanding is that God loves us and wants us to walk in love relationship with him. People already have sense of condemnation. And unworthiness . In themselves.  Message of guilt and condemnation will not produce the relationship God wants. There will be outward religion but inward unrenewed.
I delayed before because , I had though I could never get saved or be good enough for God. I had thought I could dive and capture any good person at the rapture and hold on to his legs. I was sure Jesus won't take me. In the days where you were made to believe that chewing gum is for ashawo or ashewo. And i was adicted to my Bazooka chewing gum also I used to roll paper and smoke with my friends behind one Capenter shop until we burnt his cupboard down by mistake through the firewood we hid to rekindle our paper cigaret (one of my sins)  we couldn't own up who did it. So I couldn't face the fact of confession and admittance to that thing , my prayer was for God to forgive Satan. I kept asking. "can't God forgive Satan?"

Many people today don't see God as love but  as someone who is out to fish their sins out.

I'd like to take it a step further and ask what I believe others might be thinking:
Q1: If you'd rather subscribe solely to the gospel of love to appeal to people to get saved - how do you reconcile this with Christ's and the apostles method of preaching? [/b]since Jesus and the early leaders spent a lot of time preaching on hell and sin.

[b]Q2: Furthermore, what do you say the primary message of the gospel is? Joel Osteen is a famous preacher who has mentioned he does not preach about sin because "people already know what they do wrong" and he "doesn't want to bring people down". What do you think about this? and what do you think about Joel Osteen in general? his style, his message, methods etc . . .

Newmi, thanks. And thanks to Joagbaje for agreeing to it.

Joagbaje:
I  had a religious background in a white garment church. But I got born again at the age of 9 through 2 of my elder sisters who had decamped into S.U. and foursquare . They shared with me about end time from time to time, they talked of the rapture, the anti christ and hell fire. That was the salvation message those days. I gave my heart to christ one day while it was about to rain, it thundered heavily,the cloud changed I felt the rapture was about to take place. . I was at home alone.

Thanks for the response Jo. When you were 9? cool. So would you say the fear of hell/damnation was the primary reason you decided to be a christian then?
Also, I am curious about the bolded part above. What differences do you see between the message/gospel your sisters shared then versus the message/gospel shared today?

Q1. Joagbaje, can you briefly tell us how you became a christian? The circumstances? Was it in a church? The way you felt? Was it sudden or over a period of time? what changed in your heart? ps. you don't have to give any personal details you don't want to, just a general idea of how it happened. Thanks.

I know many of us (myself included) have antagonized Joagbaje on many many occasions for his beliefs on christianity. TV01 (some of you know this juggernaut very well) was really responsible for altering my thinking on WOF, prosperity christians - from antagonistic to sympathetic, knowing we all have at one point believed amiss on one thing or another. And that no one had ever been ridiculed or badgered into conversion/de-conversion - and not that I'm claiming some higher ground/knowledge here - pls note that.

Long story short. I'll ask Jo a series of questions - not fight with him - but to understand why he believes some of the things he believes. And also for another strategic reason - one I hope is evident without my having to explain it.

So Joagbaje please come in . . .

(edit: I asked Joagbaje for his permission first before opening this thread. FYI)

^as long as you will not vex when my small husband comes to collect me

^ see these yeye boys . . . they will be stronging face here on NL but in real life they are the worst of romantics

Negro stop encouraging this now . . . Palin has no business running for president. She's fine in her role now as a populist. I do find myself agreeing with you on the below:

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=550051.msg7129929#msg7129929 date=1289576372]America is obsessed with heroism. Sarah was an enchanting princess when she first came on the scene as running mate on the Republican ticket two years ago. With mixed media reception and constant badging from the liberals she was labeled and marketed as a dangerous prospect for the white house under any role of public service. But the broad success of her political sponsorships and endorsements is creating a new definition for her and helping to overcome the opinions of critics who say she is dumb and unintelligent. Increasingly, everything she touches is turning to gold and Americans are taking a second look at this new heroine.[/quote]I don't know that "American's are taking a second look". I think most people already have a fixed opinion of her as she's such a divisive figure. I've always liked her and always will, but I don't think she should be running for president. Bristol's success is certainly attributed to her mother's influence no question - and the left is furious.

Lastly, you need to expand your televisional categories dude there are some fantastic voodoo sci-fi science series on FOX, fun cooking-competition shows on FoodNetwork, Law & order SVU on NBC, Animations such as the Simpsons and comedies like Everybody Hates Chris and Bernie Mac on Nickledeon. Save CNN, MSN and Fox for trash time jor . . . you'll live longer and happier. Ignorance sometimes is really bliss jor

[quote author=pres-elect link=topic=548827.msg7145042#msg7145042 date=1289778669]Every population gets the govt it deserves.[/quote]A most wise comment.

4 Play:
Graduates earn a premium over their lifetime compared to non-graduates. It's not asking too much that they pay the actual cost of their University education. Most people still don't get how deeply strained Western economies are. The West is in deep sh-t, but people don't know it yet.

It's slowly hitting the fan . . . chickens are coming home from all over to roost.

^people have already answered you before https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-420977.msg5797330.html
but e be like say you no wan let it go.

wow . . . I guess I would be suspicious too. But the "testing" to confirm their gender could've been performed right there on the field now . . . just aim the ball to one center place on the body and see if they collapse to the ground in excruciating pain or not.

and oh, moderator, maybe a title modification is in order here? the title is not as descriptive as the other threads (which got more traffic btw) you closed. Just an idea.

You just barely beat a highly dsyfunctional Vikings team with a weako schizo for a coach, George Burns at quarter back and 3rd-stringer receivers as starters and you're rejoicing?

^na one win oh! don't get carried away before Cutler brings you crashing right back to reality

Nobody is congratulating the Cowgirls? or the Bills? on their landmark wins?

r231:
true

we are going through the same problem too

Congrats on the impending . My advice to you is do whatever makes you and your future wife happy - not what the family members want. Do what you can to ensure peace but let the shots be called by you both not over-zealous relatives.

Sagamite:
You are married?

WTF? Why do you keep on hitting on me then? [Straight face]

Lol. Surely, you're imagining things. The only person I've been hitting on with correct smack is my small nephew, the stubborn boy almost ruined my laptop yesterday.

Thanks for the heads up Enigma.
But I must say there's really nothing new there. Plus you would be opening a couple other cans of worms if you were to be using the above scriptures as basis or justification for the practice.

In all of those cases, the issue under address is not baptism - so why take a foreign verse and apply? To me this is indicative of over-reaching to try to justify a something that is not present. Rm 11 is talking about us believers being grafted into God's tree hence the quote "if the root is holy, so are the branches" - not that children by extension become holy if their parents are saved . . . can of worms. 1 Cor 7 - what does the "sanctified" mean? Do family members really become "holy" because one of the parents is? what does "holy" in this context mean?" . . . can of worms. And they brought infants to Jesus - to pray for them, not baptize them.

All in all I know you don't want to tussle this matter. I still believe Baptism is a biblical directive to those who have come to believe - you believe otherwise and that's fine .

Both my parents walked me down. It was awesome to be flanked left and right by my two most favorite people. It also depends on the attitude of the parents - my mum was suprised at first when I brought it up but was quickly and joyfully won over that I and my dad wanted her to walk too.

I'm not one given over to "tradition" much. I go for whatever works for the people involved. Too many times we restrict ourselves and miss out on truly unique things by enslaving our minds and attitude to "tradition".

A-40 wassup now? how are you doing today?

Rikkygenerator you are next

"In all things give thanks to God"  the most quoted scripture on this thread.

I wonder . . .
- if a pastor uses trickery to get the church to give money - should he give thanks to God?
- if I play a game of cards with some friends and win - can I give thanks to God?
- if a man should divorce his wife and marry a younger woman - can he go ahead and give thanks?
- if a thief steals and becomes rich - can he still give thanks?
- if someone cheats on an exam and passes - are thanks to God appropriate?
- if the Celtics go ahead and win another basketball championship - should I give thanks to God?

here's the scripture in proper context: 1 Thess 5 "Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else. Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus."

Paul is telling the Thessalonians that even in the midst of the hard times and struggles, and that no matter what condition or circumstance they find themselves - they should always give thanks to God. Please let us use scripture in their proper context, and not apply them whenever it might seem to fit in so as to justify what should not be justifiable. And before someone comes and accuses me of being over-righteous - I did not say churches cannot have fun and participate in competitive banter - but there must be a time and place for everything. Just me 2kobo.

Pastor AIO:
I very serious o! I try my best to eat olives and figs to balance out the fact that I eat a lot of mangos too. I just want to live biblically. Surely you can understand that.

Is that so? okay then . . .

- I hope you don't have a car or use buses or trains cos those too are unbiblical. The only biblical mode of transportation is via camel-power, or if you're rich, horse-driven chariots.

- I hope also you don't stay in a wooden/cement house. Only hand-built tents are allowed

- And if you use a computer, cell-phone or any technological device, you are at the height of sin-dom. You must restrict yourself to writing like Jesus did - in the sand. Or if you want the records preserved, then some papyra scrolls will do. Don't use too big lettering or much ink though, excess is unbiblical.

- Do you wear clothes? are they of the approved biblical material? no jeans or leather or anything of that sinful sort.

      the list is endless, but with some careful and painstaking dedication, I know you can do it  goodluck!

Enigma:
"Man is a political animal"

"Man is a religious animal"

Discuss.

trouble maker  

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InesQor:
@JeSoul:

Of all people to be the first I would decide to meet from Nairaland it would be Deep Sight? Oh please!!!  

Haba, Chessmaster

^lol. InesQor, shey you too are in the same Lagos abi? go and join him in the pounded yam and stout fanta .