₦airaland Forum

Matthew 9:14
14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?

Ive heard some people say Christians don't need to fast again based on the above scripture. Is fasting still valid today ?

I want us to discuss the importance of fasting , the what,whyand how? On this thread. Pls share your opinion.

Image123:
Paul himself didn't give himself such flattery.

1 Corinthians 15:10
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

The Word of God is 66books authored by God. One part is not more inspired than the other. No need calling names, Paul has his reward from God. If you want to call Paul in this story, then do diligence to call others too to the parti.

It's the content of the epistle that is the issue ,not the person.

nlMediator:
I don’t know if you if you realize you’re making my point and undermining yours. First, the question on this thread is not whether tithing is valid, but whether Paul preached it. Second, I’ve been consistently using ‘foundational’ in this discussion in the same sense you mentioned – as an important first step upon which other steps are built. Third, stating that tithing is dispensational means that you agree that this “deep truth” was revealed to others before Paul – the same point I’ve been making that God has been revealing deep truths way before Paul. All of these suggest that we can find the whole truth in the whole Bible, not by isolating one writer and claiming that he has all the revelation we need.

I find it interesting that you continue to link Paul to tithing. I’ve been in several churches and each time I’ve heard the tithe message preached, nobody has ever referred to Paul. It’s always to Genesis (Abram) and Malachi (and sometimes Leviticus). That you want to link Paul to it suggests you understand that for both your doctrine of tithes in the modern Church and your elevation of Paul to hold true, you must claim that Paul preached on tithes. But the questions you cannot answer are: If he wanted to talk about tithes, why not do what every writer on tithes have done – use the word “tithe”? Why bring it in indirectly, especially when Paul is well-known for being direct?

Tithes and offerings were part of way of life in worship of God, it transcends dispensation. Paul didn't need to have sermon on that. If he hadn't mentioned honouring parents, you would have thought it was done away with the law also. These institutions are based on spiritual principles. They are eternal. There are others such as intercesion, worship, singing, prayers, moral life and fasting etc. they are beyond commandments ,they are based on spiritual principles . They don't pass away.

I don’t know why it is hard for you understand that God can abolish tithes without abolishing giving.

God never abolished tithing. Can you quote any scripture where God said so.

Especially when the basis for God-instituted tithe (not the voluntary one) is clearly spelt out in the Bible (the levites did not inherit land) and God do away with the instruction when the same circumstances are no longer present.

That was only under Levitical priest hood. Tithing and offerings were in existence before the Jewish nation and the Levitical system. The institution of tithes and offerings are eternal part of God worship . Principles are always consistent.

To answer your question directly, I believe in giving and so does Paul and my church.

If you believe in giving offerings, then you should give tithes also, because they are based on same rincipkes of worship.

I have my own question for you too: why did Jesus teach Kenneth Hagin about the believer’s authority by referencing the gospels and other writers besides Paul, when Paul alone would have been sufficient as the apostle to the gentiles?

The principles of God transcends dispensations. There are things under the law that are still valid today because they are based on spiritual laws and principles.  We should study genesis to revelation. They are scriptures for us. But if a man must mature in understanding. He needs to major in the epistles. It's about what the epistles contain.

WILL EVERY CHRISTIANS BE RAPTURED? WILL THERE BE LEFT BEHINDS?

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Seun:
Christianity is not hated; The average Christian experiences no persecution whatsoever.

The problem is that many nominal Christians don't understand christianity at all. They have a wrong concept of Christianity. It's not a religion . It's a pulsating life of power  which has to manifest. It's a life of action , converting sinners and building Gods kingdom.

But a man who does nothing for God can't experience persecution. A real christian must be persecuted because he  lives for something. A purpose and conviction. Persecution is our bread .If you're not experiencing persecution .check your Christianity.

2 Timothy 3:12
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

“We don’t ask people to stop taking medication. Doctors treat; God heals. Medical doctors do their work, just as ministers of God do. We sent a team of doctors, nurses and counsellors to help after the earthquake in Haiti, as well as to many other troubled nations, as you can see from our full documentary on Emmanuel TV (www.emmanuel.tv). You will see the regard we have for medical doctors; I mean, the power of nature. There is nothing bad in using medication. It was the same medication that sustained these people before they came to the church. However, they believed that God is the God of nature

.”

So where is the oringin of the "DONT TAKE DRUGS" propaganda?

^^^^^^

Image123:
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Jo, you should be saying 'amen', not asking for explanation of my prayers,

If you don't have something meaningful to contribute sir, let me be. Your religious prayer is more like a polite insult.I see it as carnal an unedifying. I understsnd such language. You can keep the prayers for yourself thanks.

And how are the members worship him? They bow before him and ing "we worship you?"

By walking in the spirit.

Galatians 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

nlMediator:
Saying that God never did away with them and that Paul taught on them are 2 different claims. You have no scriptural support for the second claim. The portion you quoted mentions neither tithes nor firstfruits. Paul was talking about supporting ministers and countless ministries and millions of christians over centuries have proven that you can support ministers without tithes and firstfruits. So, trying to read tithes and first fruits into that scripture is completely unconvincing.

The primary way ministers were supported is through tithes and offerings to God. He doesn't have to mention first fruits because its an offering .If you say tithes is done away, then you're saying offering is done away also because they are based on the same principles of worshiping God by faith with our resouces. Do you believe in giving offering in church? Do you give offering to God?

Besides, when tithes and firstfruits are preached, they're preached primarily on the basis that they're the foundation to the christian's financial blessings. Not only does the scripture you quoted not say that, but you'd think that Paul with his higher and deeper revelation would say so. Instead those who emphasize tithes and first fruits as foundational to prosperity resort to other books of the Bible and ancient practices. That automatically contradicts your point that Paul had ALL the revelation needed to excel. If he couldn't teach on something that foundational, it means that other scriptures are equally as important. Otherwise, the claim that tithes and firstfruits are foundational is false. Both ideas ("Paul is ALL" & "tithes are FOUNDATIONAL" cannot co-exist.

You should understand that principles are eternal.  Prayers, offerings,tithing, sowing,righteous living  etc.are all based on spiritual laws and principles. They transcend dispensations, we cannot outgrow them. That's why certain things which are based on principles under the law are still applicable till now. E.g honouring your parents and living long. Sowing and reaping etc. Calling something foundational does not mean childish. The foundation is the principle  which structures are built.

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nlMediator:
It is self-explanatory. Nothing is gained by exalting Paul or his teachings.

It's not self explanatory at all. Because what he said doesn't relate to the spirit of my post or it's simplicity. You should let image 123 clarify himself

1. It's either you believe that the Bible is the revealed Word of God or you do not. You cannot choose to discredit portions of the Bible on any basis whatsoever - regeneration, receiving the Holy Spirit, etc. Even Paul said ALL scripture is given by inspiration, not just Pauline epistles.

There is higher level of truth and lesser truths. All are based on certain principles. Don't be too quick to criticise what you don't understand. You should rather ask question.

2. Even before Paul and the New Testament, God has been revealing DEEP things to His people. To quote something from Paul and make it suggest that Paul was the only one that received deep things is to prove your argument with your argument. That's logically fallacious.

Pls study your bible first, read Pauline epistles with open heart.

3. We also hear the suggestion that Peter acknowledged that Paul's teachings were hard for him to understand. Yet, Peter said no such thing.

Peter acknowledge some of pails teachings were hard to be understood.

4. It is true that Jesus made it clear He will reveal additional stuff to His disciples. He never said it would be through only one person or two. Nor did he say that the words of one disciple should be exalted above others, including Jesus's words. All scripture should be read in harmony.

Youre Veering too far off.I'm contrasting between those who rather dwell on the teachings in the gospels and refuse to study the deeper teachings of Pauline epistles ,claiming the gospels are the words of Jesus and by that carry superiority. so don't ,miss my point

5. The people that harp on Paul usually do so out of convenience or to show their own superiority.

The epistles are for us all. That's why I'm giving invitation to everybody o come and see the treasure in the epistles .

[/quote]If they followed Paul strictly, they would never preach things like tithes or first fruits. [quote]

God never did away with them. Paiul himself taught on it.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

How come the person with the deep revelation forgot something on which churches spend so much effort?

you have so much assumptions. Read my opening thread again with a fresh open heart. You don't sound as though you even understand it

Are you a christian ,Muslim or pagan?

Malstrom:
Now when Rome was Christianized, many uncertainties about the religion appeared. There was no agreement whether or not Jesus was a human being with divine qualities or God in a human shape or the son of God.

1 John 4:2-3
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The bible has changed a lot over time.
One important thing is that in the old bible is that Jesus never rises from his cave and never "return" to heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:17
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Resurrection is key element of christian faith dude.

I'm vindicated, prayers do raise the dead. Madam jesoul hope you're seeing this.

That passage of the bible can only be applicable if there was an offence committed by the clergy. But a case where there's no offence. It's not bribery ,it's extortion.

Since this officer believes in the bible , What I will recommend the preacher to do is to show the officer Luke 3:14

Luke 3:14
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Pls explain yourself.

@frosbel,

from Frosbel: Wrong!!!!

You've still not explain why you said I was wrong.

If you're a christian ,see what the bible says.

Luke 18:1
. . men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

And if you're not a christian, leave christian matters alone.

crossman9:
no i am not clinically insane i am blessed thank you i am happy now in spirit soul and body but i do have demons attack me and some come from Christ embassy

Demons don't come from church , they cone from satan. And i know they can do false accusation. Anyone expetienced in casting devils out will know this.


But i will like to ask you ,Do you attend a spirit filled church? It's very easy to get rid of demons. think you should See a spirit filled minister and a doctor just in case.

this is also in my book about one of your self-proclaimed doctors in the church in England who play a part in the destruction of 3 people life’s one is me

I know that demonic cases sees everybody as enemy ,especially those who try to help them. Your case my be different.Well maybe when I read the book, I will reach you again.

Have you had any psychiatric case before?  It's one of the questions I would have asked you privately. You make long posts that are not straight forward. I'm only trying to help .

crossman9:
It is all in the dairy you will read it I will give you a copy free of charge

I will like to see this diary of yours . I'm sure it will explain a lot to me.

I want to ask you this is it ok to take money for the preaching of the gospel

Not exactly , it depends on what you mean by that. The answer can be yes or no. Based on your clarification of what you mean.

And you where rude to me last time go back and check your correspondence with me

I apologise you might have misunderstood me.

There are no female angels and there are no baby angels

Another church mockery .Is there a salvation by paying tithes?

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crossman9:
this is meant with all great respect some time ago you where very rude to me?

How?

and just confirming christ embassy is no place for the love of christ it is not a haven  for love and peace but thanks once again?

You can't form such opinion just by your experience with a sister or whoever. Besides there are 2 sides to a story . Im not even through hearing your side. I want to hear your side and hear the other side of whoever.It's supposed to be a private discussion , except you want to make it open.

but i would only be giving you a weapon to use against me before the war has started they drew first blood

What War are we fighing. You seem to be in a fantassy .Don't let us be childish .Do you know how many people I correspond with online? Even on Nairaland here. But I will not bring such private discussion open. I have had private counselling and arguments with posters here and they remain private.

crossman9:
Joagbaje just one question do you love the truth

I love the truth. And as I always say. "let truth prevail"

@ iya witch, I quite agree with some of your posts, however, I must emphasize that you got it twisted somewhere along the line. You made mention that darkness is superior to light, sorry to burst your bubble, light is the most powerful force in existence.

You can't blame iya witch too much. That's what Satan makes them believe in his deception. Remember he will still carry out 2 more major rebellion against God with the hope of defeating God one day. He made darkness believe his lie.

Cross man,
I'm still open for our discussion at your convinience. I still want to know what happened to you. Hope younstill have my email.

It is observed that many Christians today only dwell on the gospels as their main references when it comes to understanding new testament teachings. Primarily because they are Words of christ "in Red".

Firstly we must know that Jesus didn't tell us everything. In the teachings of the gospels. We have had people criticise some of us for dwelling on the Pauline epistles as though we have exalted paul above Jesus christ .

Secondly we must know that jesus didn't write any book. The only writing we know of was the one he wrote on the ground. All that we read in the gospels were people's account .The book of Mark was not written by an apostle , it was written by John mark who was a companion of Paul until paul sent him back. He wasn't among the twelve disciples of christ. Same things goes for luke,he want among the 12 apostles ,he was also a companion of paul. The book of Luke and the acts of apostles which he wrote were his personal letters to a man called theophilus.Only Mattew and John were among the 12 apostles .

Which one has superiority between the gospels and the Pauline epistle? It is left for you to determine. One of the things I will like to clarify here is the fact that Jesus didn't tell the disciples everything. Secondly the church was not yet born. Even though there are truths contained in the gospels ,the full revelation of the church wasn't given yet. Because the apostles were not yet born again and By that they haven received the holy spirit. The revelations of God are in the holy spirit .he is the one that can show us who we are. Because Jesus hadn't died, their spirits were yet unregenerated. And there was much they could comprehend.

John 16:12-14
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Now that the holy spirit had come, deeper truths are being revealed by him to the church. It will be error for us to dwell only on the teachings of the gospel alone. There are deeper truths in Pauline epistles More so ,he was the apostle sent to the Gentiles .

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

All the things that Jesus found hard to communicate to the disciples were revealed to Paul . If any mn has to excell in doctrine of truth, he has to dwell on the teachings of Paul.

Paul didn't create his own teaching, even though he was not privileged o be part of the immediate disciples ,Jesus chose him and poured these deep truths into him

Galatians 1:11-12
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

If a msn only dwell on the teachibgs of the gospels only,he woll only be a religious baby. If a man has yo grwo spirituslly, he has to move up and dwell on the teachings of paul. He is not a rivwl to christ teaching, he is rather a compliment. listening to Paul is actually listening to Christ. He was chosen to have the revelation of Jesus and the church.

Galatians 1:15-16
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen. . .:

frosbel:
Can tbaba1234 please stop posting solely ISLAM articles in the Christian / General section.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-808534.0.html and https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-807871.0.html are just a few.

Otherwise we might as well start posting Christian articles in the Muslim section.

Thank You.

He is claiming its a general section. I think solution is for us to have an exclusive christian section. I move a motion for a christian section . If there is a section for molsem there should be a section for Christians