₦airaland Forum

What are these heavenly riches?

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IS THE DEVIL ABLE TO READ HUMAN MIND?
HOW COME THE DEVIL DIDN'T KNOW THAT BY CRUCUFYING JESUS SALVATION WILL COME TO US?
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There are many voices in the world. I'm getting suspicious now.

@ jobuid
Did you deliberately make a new thread or its a mistske? It sounds like a continuation from the other thread.

You cant mentor what you dont understand, you cant mentor a man who possess what you dont even understand and is beyond you. I have not come here to find a way of becoming a pastor but to just share and relate the things of God. Thanks for the advice bro.

Well I'm not saying you should be a pastor, you yourself said God told you to take over such leadership or so. But from all indication, the sign I'm seeing in you is of the office of a prophet And not a pastor. If you are very sure the way you are going about it is safe and you're led by God , congratulations. I have met people like you and I can identify with your experience . Some succeeded , some faded out. Time will tell.

jobuid:
I have said these things about pastors before. But come to think of it, is there any man of God the entire world completely believes has been chosen by God? No.

I don't know if I understand you here. There are several prophets in this generation who hears God and receives visions and prophecy.

.'

Assuming Ezekiel existed in our generation and narrate his encounters with God as i have chosen to do here, son of man will use same scripture above to reject him. I am yet to tell you that God takes me to the midst of the dead, filled with power and boldness as part of revelation of the things 'no ears have heard, no eyes have seen'. But are foolish to a natural man and a Christian who has never walk in the realm of the spirit.
If Ezekiel in the bible was with us here to talk about the dry bones of the dead he brought back to life, present generation will call him an agent of satan. Let the spirit of God in us show us what is true or demonic but our opinion concerning any one does not change God's will in the life of that person. God the Almighty is my heavenly father and the eternal rock of ages. The cloud is dust of his feet and the universe is his field of play. Whatever he reveals to me does not void to him, it is not wha you quote from th scripture that determines if God is with me or not but God's personal will for me. If you meet the man that invented plane, you will say he is possessed by demons because his gift is beyond your imagination.

I agree with you. Men will always criticise what they don't understand. If Ezekiel were here, he will be condemned as false prophet. Actually there's no prophet that was ever received with open arms. It's the cross a prophet carries.

Luke 4:24
24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

But at the same time we cannot overrule the fact that a prophet if he's not so sound in the gospel he may not be able to discern well or distinguish the voice of God from the enemy when he strikes .

Eben 2:
To my friends Joagbaje, wordtalk & co,

I believe you’re Christians and when I say “Christian” I don’t mean someone born into a Christian family, church “goer”, pastor, or church worker but someone who has seen his sinful and condemned state and has come to Jesus for atonement and whose name has been written in the book of life.

If the above is true, then you must totally trust and rely on the word of God for direction. Now, has there been anywhere in the Bible where Jesus or any of the apostles supported the idea of pastors gathering wealth for earthly consumption?

Don’t let us answer yet. Let’s go to the word. Some NLs have sited some wonderful scriptures to support their assertions but I will love to start with quotations from brother Joagbaje:

I may not reply your post in detail but I will try to summarise . I want you to know firstly that there is a difference between wellbeing and materialism. There are two sides to christian material prosperity.  the  first part is necessity (having your needs met) the second part is having more than enough to bless others. A christian who is not willing to be a blessing to others does not need to have more than enough. there is so much needs in the lives of people, and a man who lives from hands to mouth can't help anybody.

Eben 2:
2 Corinthians 8:9
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

First, I’ll love to correct one impression: whenever we see “rich” in the bible, it doesn’t necessarily connote earthly material possession.

Here the bible was not talking about earthly possessions; Christ was rich in heavenly glory as the very Son of the Most High God. He left those riches and glory was made sooooooo low and poor as to come in human flesh so that you and I can be joint heirs with Him and be partakers of His heavenly riches.

Firstly to understand that passage, Jesus was not spiritually poor. He was full of the spirit without measure. He had the fullness of yhe Godhead terbsnacled in him. So he wasnt spiritually poor at all. His poverty has to do with material . Remember Paul made reference to this scripture while teaching people howv
to give .so he was talking about material supply. I agree that the use of the word "rich" may not be material in every scripture but in the passage , it's material riches. Look at the Greek meaning below.From strong concordance .

g4147. πλουτέω plouteō; from 4148 ; to be (or become) wealthy (literally or figuratively): — be increased with goods, (be made, wax) rich. AV (12) - be rich 7, be made rich 2, rich 1, wax rich 1, be increased with goods 1;

@jobuid

jobuid:
I have been running because it is heavy task, i must not Be Intimate, no drinking, no smoking, cant hate anyman, i must pray for my enemy to prosper instead of causing him and people will call me all sort of names.Sorry that i have chosen not to contact any living man to teach me anything, i told God  that if truly He wants to use me, He should teach and mentor me by himself  the way he teaches me how to speak well, write well, do things no man has ever thought me, have full knowledge of things i should have learnt in university(FYI i have never been to any university since conception but i see myself attending schoool in my dreams).

I understand you love God and want to please him. But Nobody knows it all, some White garment church leaders had true callings from God, but because thru isolated themselves from help and teaching ,they went into errors.

The founder of redeemed church was like that too, he even started as a White garment church but he allowed help. Look at redeemed today. You will never know how crude they started.

I have met individuals like you who sees things and hear voice, those who yield to be help were able to have their gifts polished .

I understand your desire to be led directly from God. But God will not teach you everything . Right now you don't know how to quote posts on Nairaland , God won't teach you that, he will use someone to guide you.

Remember moses, God didn't tell himm everything, yet he was killing himself, and wearing the congregation out until jethro the father Inlaw who was more experienced as a priest counselled him.

Exodus 18:17-19
17 And Moses'father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good. 18 Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone. 19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God:

It takes humility for man who hears "God" to accept counsel .


How come God couldn't  counsel Moses? yet they talked daily . Moses would have died in ignorance before his time.  Paul isolated himsrlf for a period but later he followed Barnabas and was helped before he fully launched out alone. We all need training, tutor and help. If you're willing to discuss my email is bellow.

^^^^
I know God is raising many many prophets as witnesses in this last days so that nobody will have an excuse . Some things you said agrees with their experience. So I can't call it a mental case as I initially assumed but I must warn you being raised under a pastor is very important so that you can learn how to discern the voice of God from the voice of the devil. It's not everything ypuhear that is 100% correct.  You must know that.  Satan will try to invade your gift to corrupt it. It takes sound teaching or understand ding of the Word  to discern .

1 Corinthians 14:29
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

You need some more matured ministers to judged you revelations. for example, the idea of taking over leadership after pastor Adeboye doesn't make sense. You can't lead a group you're not part of. Even when judas was replaced they had to get someone who had been with them.

^^
this is serious. . What's God saying about Nigeria ?

^^^
God created science, a true scient can't deny God. When science denies God,that s since is corrupted,

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

HOW DO I LOOK FOR A SPOUSE?
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There's no yes or no answer. It depends on the perspective of his communication. When I hear him I can form an opinion.
Paul taught that we can expect angels.

Hebrews 13:2
2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

I have to hear the man teaching on this.

BERNIMOORE:
Your reply to this bible verse,you just merely claimed without backing it with any bible verses  or even logically in anyway whatsoever that  that the man reffered to in this above bible verse by jesus,you claimed  that ‘it was obvious that the man was not a giver’ and ‘that all of us must practice giving’as your reason why jesus made the above statements,
But contrary to your reason, jesus gave his own reasons in the same quoted verses,it reads;Verse( 23)’’And When He Heard This, He Was Very Sorrowful: For He Was Very Rich.(24)and When Jesus Saw That He Was Very Sorrowful, He Said , How Hardly Shall They That Have Riches Enter Into The Kingdom Of God!’’

The bible is clear that the man did not want to part with his wealth, he is attached to them . Jesus wasnt against the man being rich. He had many rich desciples . He was against the man having attachment to riches . He trusts in his riches as his security . That is idolatry. And mammon. Such men find it hard to part with their belongings.

1 Timothy 6:17-18
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

Matthew 6:19-24 reads
Today's New International Version (TNIV)
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
   22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,[a] your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
   24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.


What is very obvious here which jesus pointed out is that, the man,(certain ruler)have developed much attachment to his riches and therefore  found it difficult or very hard according to jesus to detach himself from his riches.or the CONCERN OFTEN DEMANDED BY RICHES. Now compare with what jesus had earlier said in  Mathew 6:19-24. Vs 21 clearly says that,’for where your treasures is,there your  heart will also be.

I agree with you.

While vs 24 jesus clearly ruled out the possibility of anyone to pursue both riches  and God

I agree , we should not be pursuing riches.

Proverbs 23:4
Labour not to be richcease from thine own wisdom.

But there is difference between a man who is pursuing riches and a man who simply receive what God has given.  In his presence there are pleasures for ever more.

Jesus reasoned  that the attachment often demanded by riches   makes it almost imposible or difficult or  ‘hard’ for a rich man to leave their riches behind(because,riches often demands monitoring,to make money or riches,you need enough time,and to keep money or riches from being taken away,you need time)

I agree, but he is against the attachment  and not against being rich. Why did he ask Abraham to offer his Son? To be sure Abraham is not attached to the boy more than God. God wasn't against him having a son. And when Abraham proved it , God allowed him to keep his son.

God will always test us in this areas. Anything you are attach to, God may ask you to offer it. When you offer it, you prove your love for God and he blesses your eith more. Because YIUR ability to give it demonstrate your lack of attachment. That's why we give. Money,cars etc.

If jesus was talking about ‘giving’,he would’nt have told the man to ‘’sell all’’ he has,and follow him,he would have told him to give part or half to the poor and gave the man clues on how to make more money.
But jesus said if he sells  all he had and distribute to the poor,that the man  ‘’would have’’ ‘treasures in heaven’.

The treasure in heaven doesn't. Mean when we get to heaven.  It's like a bank account we draw from. We are in heaven already. It's like opening an account , a heavenly account where you can draw from , not for the future but in the now.

now,Luke 18;28
New International Version (NIV)
( 28) Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!”

It's still the same thing. If Jesus was against material prosperity why will he be making promises of material prosperity to them.

Mark 10:28-30
Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. 29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, [/b]and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

lastly,Jesus concept of giving in the book of Mathew only emphasise that ‘if we must give,we should not give with the motive of receiving anything back

No sir , he was against us giving in the flesh, expecting the same people we give to to give us back as though they owe us. Rather he wants us to expect to receive from God.  It's a law , if you sow ,you should have faith for a harvest.

[b]Luke 6:38
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

2 Corinthians 9:6
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Galatians 6:7-9
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. . 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

The reason we have is to give, having is not a problem, lack of giving is the problem. When we practise giving as a life style we will be receiving. Its a law. As you receive more, you increase in your capacity to give bigger and on and on.

@WETU

Nothing wrong with angels or seeing them. But we must pray to God, not talk to angels we cannot see. And those who preach must preach about Christ and the Holy Spirit not angels.
Is it really that hard to understand my message?

I get your point that christ should be our focus and I agree with you . But theres nothing scripturally wrong when a minister relates his spiritual encounter or experience. Jesus did and paul did if not we will not be reading about it today.

Acts 27:23
23 For there stood by me this night the Angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,

If paul could relate his experience, we should not condemn any other minister for doing so that's my point.

goshen360:
I know money money is needed to advance the gospel but the way some preachers talk abt money n collect different kinds of offerings with different names on sunday services as if the world can b won by money. The world can only be won by the spirit of God.

Churches will always have needs . But nobody forces anyone to give. A man should give by his conviction. The one God lays in your heart.

2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

goshen360:
In my recent study about the importance of money to the spread of the gospel of Christ. I paused and asked myself this vital question if Jesus christ ever preached money throughout his ministry on earth as we see many preachers lay much emphasis on money, donations, different kinds of ungodly/unscriptural offerings being collected in the church today

Nothing is wrong in teaching people how to excell financially. Jesus taught it !likewise Paul and others but I'm not aware there's any pastor who will be preaching about money only. Something must be wrong, if he doesn't preach salvation ,righteousness,prayer etc, how will people get saved?,live right or be prayerful. There must be balance or Are you saying they shouldnt teach on finances at all?

and yet, we never see much movement power like the days of Jesus in today's church.

The miracles of the days of Jesus are here already, and Satan is fighting it hard calling it back magic .

wetu:
Nay, Why would I want to sit in his church after seeing him performing and telling stories about angels. I don't want to see angels. Jesus didn't tell me to talk to angels. He told me He will send the Holy Spirit.

What is wrong with seeing angels? . Any real prophets sees angels , some even see demons. A healing minister or prophet has angels assigned to him for that special ministry and they do see them. Moses did,paul did ,even Jesus did too.

Mark 1:13
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

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I will go through and respond

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ogachukwu, where are you based? Your name is very Nigerian o

We don't just have spirit, we are spirits having a soul. We are only clothed in a body of clay

Generation curse is real. But when a man gives his heart to christ, he is disconnected legally from such curses.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The only trouble with many is that after bring disconnected by the blood of christ, lack of renewal of mind by Gods Word still keep them under the atmosphere of the old life and curses. But if a man schools himself in the knowledge of his new nature, the legal experience will become a vital reality. He will reign over every work of darkness .

^^^^^
Let us go out and win souls jare, my spirit is stirred. It's more profitable than book of genealogy.

1 Timothy 1:4
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

dare2think:
What would you do if a man of God told you that GOd had just instructed him to tell his congregation , of which you are a part of, to commit mass suicide?Before you think "why ask me such a st.upid question" ,  Pls grace me with a reply

If I may come in. If a pastor ask for such things contrary to the Word or someones conviction.such a member should simply reject , and if there need be ,leave . that's what the bible says.

2 John 1:10-11
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

James and Jude were blood brother of Jesus by mary.

Mark 6:3
3 Is not this the Carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not His sisters here among us? And they took offense at Him and were hurt [that is, they disapproved of Him, and it hindered them from acknowledging His authority] and they were caused to stumble and fall.

Such things do happen. If God sends a man to do that , God will confirm it. Some men are anointed for finances to empower the body of christ. Just as juju can give a man BLOOD MONEY. The holyghost is the original power for wealth.

epikaizo:
I perfectly agree with you @pastor James. Why do people have to stand up and criticize people who are doing GODS work when they themselves arent doing anything.

Search yourseves people of God when you say something, remember the devil does not have a mouth he will use your mouth and mind and bring a curse to your doorstep

If this man of God is used of the devil and he delivers people from sickness, poverty and sin, i being a prime example then tell you what man I love whatever power he is using because that set me free from the DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!

Its so disturbing to find people of the kingdom trying to defend their church by criticing another one, you missing the real enemy and that shows your level of immaturity. Church is for immature kids and the kingdom is for the mature. chose your stand man. Just because your man of God is usde of Ggod does not make everyone else a satanist. that spiritual myopia, Remember Miriam a prophetess of God got the brunt of His anger by trying to turn against his anointed servant Moses, just search yourself man

I pray that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened and you see beyond your current religious boarders

You've said the truth, God bless you.

Great works.

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WHY DO CHRISTIANS FALL SICK
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Its still s testimony. And its God who get the praise. If the intention is for self glory , its between the person and God. But if someone gives s genuine testimony and you see it from the fleshly perspective of efizzy. You're commiting a sin without knowing. People have been blessed and edified by the testimony of others. Our testimony is not just salvation. We sn testify to healing, deliverance from danger, and prosperity etc

When I see many sinners give their hearts to christ. That's joy.