₦airaland Forum

aletheia:
Pastor Joagbaje:
I would like to ask you directly; what do you believe is the significance of the day of Pentecost to us Christians? Secondly, why do you think the Holy Spirit was poured out on that day and not on any other day?

It is a speciall day that Jews and proselytes from all over the world come together. Just like Christmas is a worldwide celebration today for christians. The message of the gospel is for all nations, there would not have been a better time for that.

To suggest as you do that it was "mere coincidence" is to depict God as been arbitrary. But you know that God acts in accordance with his purposes and he is always in time ordering events as He has determined from before the foundation of the world.[/b]

I had said earlier that maybe the word " coincidence " was not too appropriate to use. You know it has 2 major meanings; It means "two events happening at thesame time" it also means "something happening accidentally"
You are right that God is a purposeful God and in the sense of accidental coincidence , God does not have such.

But the fact that such event took place on the day of a jewish festival should not cause us to be named after such. nor holy Spirit. The name does not have any spiritual significans or fulfilment. It means "fifty" There are certain spiritual figures or numbers God uses that had meanings such as 3 (Godhead) or 7(fulness). We study about the 7 spirits of God. 7 lampstands etc that represents the fulness of the Spirit. But fifty doesnt have any prophetic interpretation. And we should understand that this name pentecostal was not attribut to the church until just about 100 years ago , after the Asuza street revival.

Nuclearboy and Analytical.
pentecost was a jewish festival, Paul didnt have anything against it. He didnt ascribe impotance to it as regards the holyspirit. Just thesame way he goes to the synagogues on Sabbath days . Does that make him an observer of sabbath or make sabbath a christian observation?

Acts 13:13-14
Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.
[14] But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44
And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

biomes2001:
JOAGBAJE: U dnt need to be a lawyer to know wat is called "corroborated circumstancial evidence".Even a bushman frm the village can nt expect me to produce such a tape showin cult initiation.How can that be achieved? U lack knowledge of how cult groups operate. The rarely communicate with themselves in public orally but in signs. Agreed some pple immitate some of these gestures innocently,but that does nt mean that all those who use the handsigns are innocent. The question is,why must the cameraman capture him at the point he is givin this handsigns?For those of us who are learned in the way of these cults we know that picture signals are means freemasons use to communicate with themselves and to demonstrate solidarity to the "system".Am nt here to waste my ink tryin to explain to a dumbmind that a hen is also a chicken. To those who re ready to learn more about masonic activities in all spheres of life,am here to lead the way.I'll nt be shocked if some of my critics are even masons tryin to disuade those who want to learn!

Pls go to bed. We are not children. From your nonsense, the world is guilty of freemasonry .God created us to use our bodies freely, every body use their hands for gestures and demonstrations from time to time.Is there a document you saw that claim so. I can as well say that scratching of the hair is a sign of ogboni.
YE YE.

biomes2001:
the raising of the 5 fingers is a signal given by most masonic politicians signifying the 5 virtues of venus,isis,ashteroth,etc the queen of heaven. The the occultic image of lucifer the "baphomet" raising his 5 fingers high. What the hell is pastor chris doing posing in a pic with his five fingers high? another mistake I guess?

nonsense as I expected. Because I know you will not have any truth . I thought you were going to show video of one secret cult initiation.I was expecting a doctored video or something which I will gladly expose. Pls make una leave this man of God alone Biko. Light and darkness don't have fellowship. If pastor Christ is saving men from cults , robbery and all evil , why on earth will someone come up with such story.

Matthew 5:11-12
11 Blessed are ye, when[ men] shall revile you, and persecute[ you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great[ is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

i will like to know what Kunleoshob has to say about this.

Analytical:
Haba Joagbaje!!!!   I am shocked beyond belief that a Christian, a pastor at that, will make this claim above.  You have been well answered as shown below:

Let me throw in a bit of illumination in addition.

The OT foreshadows the NT and so, the events, precepts, laws, feasts etc of the OT definitely find fulfilment in the NT, and some are still to happen at a future date (i.e. not yet fulfilled).

A careful study of the feasts of the OT by a bible student will reveal the parallels in the way the feasts of the OT find their fulfilment in the NT.  To say the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost is merely conicident shows a lack of understanding.  This is equivalent to saying Our Lord Jesus' death on the day of the Feast of Passover is merely a coincidence!

God, the Great Designer has already designed the time-table of events in history and none is coincident.  By the enactment of the covenant with the people of Israel (the OT church), He was revealing the type/shadow, to be fulfilled in the actual/real (the church/ Ecclessia).

There is a lot to be said here, but for brevity let me highlight some of the feasts of the OT that finds fulfilment in the NT, at the exact time and date it was celebrated in the OT (reference Leveticus 23 vs 1-44):

1. The Feast of Passover where a lamb is sacrificed on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Nissan to remember when the passover lamb was sacrificed on the eve of the deliverance from Egypt- found fulfilment in the sacrifice of Jesus as the Lamb of God, at the exact date and time on 14 Nissan 33 AD

2. The Feast of Unleavened Bread celebrated on the day after Passover is a solemn assembly eaten in a hurry - found fulfilment in the burial of Jesus as he remained in the grave on the 15th day of Nisaan 33 AD

3. The feast of firstfruits is celebrated on the 17th day of Nissan signifying the firstfruits of harvest of the people of Israel- found fulfilment in the Ressurection of Christ and His showing Himself to the disiciples at Galilee a day after he arose from the grave on 17th day of Nissan 33 AD as the firstfruit from the dead!

4. The feast of Weeks also called the Pentecost is celebrated on the 50th day after Passover.  It is the day after 7 weeks from the feast of passover.  It is the day the Law of Moses written on the tablets of stone was delivered to the Israelites from Mount Sinai, signifying the birth of a nation, among other things, and the covenant of God to His people.

You will remember that after the resurrection, Jesus told all His disciples to remain in Jerusalem until they receive power from above to make them witnesses unto Him.  It was on the same 50th day after His death that this found fulfilment.  Acts 2 records this.

The Lord chose this day of Pentecost for that fulfilment by the coming of the Holy Spirit, signifying the birth of the New Nation- the Church, and the giving of the new Law of the Spirit, written not in tablets of stone, but in the tables of the hearts of men, as New Testament/Covenant people of God.  This is the seal on our salvation.

Just as everybody was supposed to be gathered at the Feast of Pentecost before the Lord in the OT, every single one of the believers (about 120) was present on this very day in the NT when the Holy Spirit came from above and in cloven tongues of fire and the  people from every nation gathered heard them speaking in tongues in their languages.

Mere coincidence?  Not at all.  It's part of the grand and divine time-table of God.

I will continue shortly about the remianing 3 feasts in the Jewish calender. . .
On a 2nd thought, permit me to stop this here so as not to divert the topic. However the remaining 3 feasts in the OT are that of Feats of Trumpets, Atonement and Tabernacles and all are shadows of the NT.

thanks for the enlightenment. I did some studies on this too. But one fact remains,:There is nothing Pentecostal about the holyghost nor the church. It is time we re examin some of the handovers of the days of ignorance.

nuclearboy:
I don't know why you guys are suprised at Joagbaje's statement - remember he is a pre-programmed human and there's a remote control somewhere. Chris (who holds the remote) says he is not a Pentecostal and that Pentecostals basically are people who follow what is generally accepted unlike himself who follows the truth. In his words QUOTE "they have not done enough study"UNQUOTE. Since he's not involved with pentecost, why would you expect him to know anything about it.

God forgive you. Why don't you do a re study yourself . I know you are only walking in what your fathers handed over to you without finding for yourself. There's nothing Pentecostal about Christianity or the holyspirit. The church were in the upstair room away from the Jewish Pentecostal who were celebrating downstairs.

aletheia:
"Mere coincidence?" Pastor Joagbaje, you need to choose your words more carefully or did you actually mean what you posted above?

Pentecost

The word derives from the Greek for "the 50th day." It was the Jewish Feast of Weeks (Exod 34:22; Deut 16:9-11), variously called the Feast of Harvest (Exod 23:16) or the Day of Firstfruits (Num 28:26), which fell on the 50th day after the Feast of the Passover.
Leviticus 23 describes the sacred nature of the holiday and lists the appropriate sacrifices. The events of Acts 2 transformed the Jewish festival into a Christian one.
A study of the old testament feasts ordained by God will show you that they foreshadowed the Messiah.

"Mere coincidence?" Not at all.

Maybe my choice of the word "coincidence" was not appropriate. My point is that the feast has nothing to do with Christianity as regards us being called by it "Pentecostal" we are not. Mind you I don't deny the types and shadow the OT rituals , and festivals portrays. The holyghost coming on that day does not make us Pentecostal. Christianity is Christianity. If he had come on Passover day. What shall we be called now? PASSOVERAS?

We dey wait,

biomes2001:
bro your observation is quite rite. Oyahkilome is a new ager and a freemason posing as a servant of God. He is one of the new age pastors used to pervert the gospel

This post of yours is not making any sense. What pervertion of the gospel, and freemasonry. Don't just do hit and run . Come and explain yourself. How can a teacher of Gods word be freemason. Do you know what freemasonry is? You should give proper explanation to this revelation of yours.

. I'll soon furnish to NL members videos where he was flashing masonic signals to his secret brethren in the "brotherhood". The bible says by their fruit u shall knw them,dnt u see that his church is all about miracles and not holiness. The rate of intimacy-capades in that church if measured will burst the guage limit. may God ve mercy on miracle seekers!!!

All these new IDs Just to prove what point. If you can't provide such video , Don't show your face here again!.

jesus.:
This one hard but nowadays we should blame ourselves

very correct, anybody suffering today is responsible for his suffering Adam is not responsible . The Op should have said rather " who was responsible for man's fall" it should have been Adam . But who should a man hold for his SUFFERING today? Every man that is suffering is responsible . Because Christ has tasted death and suffering for all. There is a choice before every man now.

SirJohn:
Hey Joe dont even go there, Chris has preached that countless number of times; I have equally heard that from a dozen CE pastors. as a former foundaion school teacher in CE, I once taught that crap,

Sir John , that's equally a lie! . What pastor Chris said in reference to Mary and Lazarus was that when Jesus get I volved with you, he will equally get involved with your family. He was teaching on leadership and care saying we should get involved with members and be concerned about them even to their family. He said when Jesus got involved with Mary, he also visited her family. He got involved with Peter and still visited his family and even healed peter's mother. Same thing goes for zacheuss and Jesus visited hid home. So sir John , Can you call up any title of any tape where such is said or the page of the foundation school manual that such article was taught.

@ chukwudi,
if you are really searching for criminality in God's name, it's the vatican. Ask you pope how they built the Vatican. And the abuses on innocent children by priests and cardinals. Are you sure you want the truth? It's in your backyard!

kris2glo:
the born again is the same as god. (gen. 1)

. Adam wasn't born again. The born again didn't exist in Genesis. The born again man was created in Christ when he was raised from the dead.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

He is in the image of God, but he has something more than Adam . He has the life of God. He is not thesAme person as God as your post is suggesting. But he has the life of God .

1 John 5:12
12 He that hath the Son hath life;[ and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

petres_007:

I think Ganjaseed has mentioned this before but its still very sad to read it again.
@Ganjaseed,
I won;t be surprised if Joeagbaje shows up here and tells you that was not what the pastor said, that you "misheard" him

you are right , Ganja seed is lying . Except if he overblow or exergerate what he claimed he heard. That teaching is umbiblical and pastor Chris has will not teach that kind of thing. You know we are in a free world , anybody can post anything.

Jesus didn't raise Lazarus because his sister gave him perfume, Jesus raised Lazarus because he loved him . That is what pastor Christ teach.

John 11:5
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.

John 11:3
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.


John 11:34-36
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. 35 Jesus wept. 36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!

petres_007:

I think Ganjaseed has mentioned this before but its still very sad to read it again.
@Ganjaseed,
I won;t be surprised if Joeagbaje shows up here and tells you that was not what the pastor said, that you "misheard" him

you are right , Ganja seed is lying . Except if he overblow or exergerate what he claimed he heard. That teaching is umbiblical and pastor Chris has will not teach that kind of thing. You know we are in a free world , anybody can post anything.

Jesus didn't raise Lazarus because his sister gave him perfume, Jesus raised Lazarus because he loved him . That is what pastor Christ teach.

John 11:5
5 Now

Jesus loved[/b] Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.

John 11:3
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.


John 11:34-36
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. 35 Jesus wept. 36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!

You can go back and read my post on that thread. And you guys should not give impression you just enjoy ugly lies about churches. It is sad .

petres_007:

I think Ganjaseed has mentioned this before but its still very sad to read it again.
@Ganjaseed,
I won;t be surprised if Joeagbaje shows up here and tells you that was not what the pastor said, that you "misheard" him

you are right , Ganja seed is lying . Except if he overblow or exergerate what he claimed he heard. That teaching is umbiblical and pastor Chris has will not teach that kind of thing. You know we are in a free world , anybody can post anything.

@Ogajim,

If there is any business Pastor Christ (Mistake? I think not)is running as some of you claim,

have you not made mistake in typing before? Dont make an issue about this. You know it was not deliberate.
But that doesnt take away the fact that we are Christ.

the embarrassed father began to[b] recite incantations which eventually calmed the excited child.[/b]

Ifa incantation , can you explain these in the light of the bible pls

viaro:
Yes, that is quite the quintessential WOF doctrine. . . and we've discussed this in other threads.

What has divinity got to do with. Speaking faith! see what i'm saying.

lagerwhenindoubt:
and what would this woman gain (monetarily or otherwise) by spoiling great christian pastors

.It is not an issue of what she gains financially. The congregation is the tartget.

Mark 14:27
smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

Satan is so unwise by thinking that publications will ruin the ministry of men of God. There is a good side of it anyway. such challenges comes to prove the strenght and genuiness of a man's calling. If a man is fake, then he could be destroyed by such publications .

They said all sort about Jesus too . remember?

Matthew 12:24
But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

John 7:12
And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.

Its part of the persecutions of a minister. It is also a mark of event in the last days.

2 Tim. 3:3
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

So what do you expect the devil to say? He is called the father of lies, He is a natural liar. If you follow junk journalism , you will sin against God unknowingly.

John 8:44
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

If there is anything about Word Of Faith Movement, It is simply based on the understanding of the power of the spoken word. Word of faith simply means, Words, declared by faith, and cause things to happen. It is based on the realisation of hidden biblical principles that many neglected. The word of God is the Word Of Faith. Such "movement" was a reasult of the cosciousness God has brought back to the Church . The fact that we can navigate our way in life by what we say, We can have what we say.

Romans 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

But mockers of this great truth, started by tagging it , "name it claim it" But on nairaland. any thing that does not agree with the myopic thinking of some posters is Word of Faith. " we are justified" its wof doctrine! "We are divine" its wofff doctrine! "we are new creation" its woffffffffffff doctrine. "Giving in Gods house" Aaah! wofffffffffff doctrines!.

The seed of Ganja. Hmmmmn,
as his name is so is he.

1 Samuel 25:25
Let not my lord, I pray thee, regard this man of Belial, for as his name is, so is he; Nabal is his name, and folly is with him:

YOUFIT TALK ANYTHING JARE , ITS JUST NATURAL. CARRY GOOOOO!

Ganjaseed:
@Joagbaje. I still worship at CEC here in Holland, I have seen a lot of things that makes me shake my head and say indeed Jesus will bounce so many pastors and followers like you back on the last day.

I pity your condition. How can you be attending a church you dont believe in. What are you doing there. You are a contradiction if  i may say. You dont have convictions. a real man you live by convictions. It is said ," if you are not leading, or following, get out of the way" live for a cause

The message of CEC looks ok and sound when you hear it, but if you really follow it up you can almost tell where he is going to end up the message, its all about bring money and God will bless you. Every little project in CEC the members will be ask to contribute money to carry out that project,

That is living for a cause brother. Were people not giving for projects in the bible? answer me. From the building of the temple to welfare for the needy?When Paul announced for money to be laid aside every sunday saying to them, " for God  loveth  a cheeeeeeeerful giver" what would you do if you were there? What do you do with your own money. We take pleasure in giving, we have fulfillment is serving God with all that we have and we are blessed for it.You are the one having a problem here been unable to give . You may critisice  pastor Chris but at least he is doing something for his generation. What do you offer?

but what happened to the Big business empire Chris is running in the name of the church ? is there no profit ? who owns that profit? where does the profit goes to? The money raised from rhapsody alone is enough to print copies for distribution for another 3 to 4 years without having to bug anyone for more contributions. Look these guys are running a profitable organisations agree with me or not.

If there is any business Pastor Christ is running  as some of you claim,, Then he must be running it like any business man. paying tax and duties etc. But whats your problem with that? If a pastor is not working, trouble. If a pastor  is doing business, i thought there should have been commendation but its trouble still.

Pastor Chris will soon announce his own Jet watch out!

You definately dont know Pastor Chris, He is not a worldy man. Forget what you see on TV. He live a very simple life. He recieves a lot of gifts Just as Jesus , Paul, elijah , Elisha did.

Luke 8:2-3
   And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, [3] And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

He doesnt spend money on personal thing.He puts everything into the work of ministry. He wants to reach the entire world for christ. This can only be achieved by technology.That is why everybody love Pastor Chris. And he is a great giver. Listen to his messages.

chukwudi44:
Just want to confirm if the word of faith movement is entirely distinct from Pentecostalism or just a subset of it.

Firstly there is nothing pentecostal about christianity. It was a jewish festival. It was mere coincidence the holyspirit came during pentecost.

Concerning Word Of Faith Movement, I will like to have your definition of what you mean by that.

Davinci code was a finctional story. It's not based on truth

Jephyard:
Why is it that man is the center of battle between God and the Devil?
For example God created us, made beautiful home for us and the next thing the Devil got provoked or something and drag man along?
Please constructive answer bro & sis

can you explain a little more, which house did God build, i dont understand

Firstly , the tree was not evil in itself. because everything God created was good.

Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good

Genesis 2:9
And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is[b] pleasant to the sight, and good for food;[/b] the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

So God didnt create an evil tree. It is a tree that contains knowledge, not only of evil but of good as well. "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". It is a sign of maturity which Adam had not yet attained.

I believe he needed to get to a level of maturity before God would allow him to eat of the tree.

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of[b] full age[/b], even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

To descern means to be judicial. to be a judge. Its a nature of God. He is Judge and has created man to be like himself.

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Why would man need to be a judge? Because of lucifer's fall. man will be the one to judge the spirits.

1 Cor. 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

The tree contains the knowlegd of God's plan for man. Take procreation for an example. God commanded that the man should fill the earth with people , yet the man was not even conscious of the fact that he was naked not to talk about conjugal intercourse with his wife. It was not until he ate the fruit that his eyes got opened to his unclothedness. The problem with them from my understanding was that they ate the fruit at the command of the devil and not waiting for the command of God would have been given at the right time.

The fruit , i believe was meant for them, but they ate it prematurely

Dont mind such story . opposite is the truth, It is these men of God that delivers ritualist from, those wicked spirit and gets them saved

This is the major thing about being born again. It has to do with man having the life of God and not just following some religious sanctimonious piety

Romeo4real:
Can you see that your definition of “Righteousness” even contradicts your statements?
Lets break down your statements. (1) Righteousness is the nature of God. (2) It grants man an ability to stand in God’s presence. (3) It give man ability to do right.

There is no contradiction in any definition here.Every child of God wants to do right. Righteousness is embeded in our spirit. Sin or mistakes are not produced in our spirit, They are works of the flesh.Yes it grants man ability to stand in God's pressence without sense of guilt , condemnation, or inferiority.

Therefore, by your statements, “Righteousness “is simply an ability? right? Is it conferred to “any” man? If not, what kind on man exactly is this “ability” conferred upon?

Its conferred on any one that is born again. The point is, Righteousness is God's nature. when a man becomes born again, he is automatically born with the same nature of righteousness. Thesame way a man does not become a sinner by what he did wrog. Every man was born with the sin nature.As long as a man still has the sin nature by rejecting christ, no matter the good works, he is still a sinner. No matter the wrong doing of a christian , his nature of righteousness remains unchanged.God still see him as righteou, and will not change the state of his human spirit from righteousness into the nature of sin. This does not mean however , that he should live carelessly, Sin has consequences and thats why a man needs to repent if he does wrong. But as he walks in the word of God and grow as a christian, The nature of righteousness overides every works of the flesh. It will become difficult for him to walk in the flesh .

If this is the definition of a “Mistake”, then please enlighten us to the definition of “Sin”

There is a differece between someone who is living in sin and someone who falls into an error or makes a mistake. But all are called works of the flesh.

Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

I do understand. And why are you quoting obscure scripture to justify your fallacy? How does this particular scripture say that a Christian who sins is still righteous and is not a sinner?

With the explanations i gave above , it is clear he is always righteous before God. He may not even feel righteous because of guilt due to his ignorace. God does not take his rigtheousness away becase the man christian man is born with it. While the sinner is born with sin nature. and nothing he does good can make him right with God unless he gets born again first.

If you go on to finish the same scripture you quoted, it goes on to say – “But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.”- If you are mature, and have trained yourself to distinguish good from evil, why would you still be doing evil things and sinning? If this is so, it means you are not mature yet, and therefore unrighteous.

You are still making thesame mistake, equating righteousness with works. A man is not made righteous by what he does. He is born with it as a nature in Christ, He doenst earn it by good behaviour. Did Abraham not make mistakes and even lie. Yet God callled him righteous.It is lack of undestanding of righteousness that makes some people stop going to church because they fell into certain habits and feel they are not really saved

. Under the law, righteousness was by keeping the law; and it still partly is. Jesus clarified this many times to his disciples and the Pharisees. He made clear the Law is still valid and he did not came to change it.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Do not be duplicitous when quoting the Bible. Do not quote passages in isolation.

I can never be duplicitous and i dont appreciate the use of that language. If you dont understand , simply say so.Read the passage yourself.

Any Christian worth his salt knows that redemption only comes through grace, which only comes via forgiveness;which is necessary because you have sinned.

You are NOT supposed to sin once you have been redeemed. If you do, you lose your redemption, which is

Where did you get that from the bible? Seriously i will really like to know. That a christian will lose his salvation because he did something wron? Do you know how many things youve done wrong that you did not even know it was a sin. ? Pls show me with scriptures. And make sure they are relevant to a christian