₦airaland Forum

Kay 17: @joshthefirst

I asked for the definition of sin, for the sake of the thread, becuase you didn't take the care of providing one, which will be the bearing of this thread.

However, you believe there is universal good?

I believe there is absolute good and evil(sin, the transgression of God's law written in our minds)
I believe morals have an absolute.

Here's a recent post from ola.
I hope it helps @ mazaje.

"If God is a God of love, why hasn’t He dealt with evil?"

"For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil" (1 Peter 3:12 The Evidence Bible)

In Dr. Robert Morey’s book The New Atheism and the Erosion of Freedom, he talks with an atheist about this issue. The atheist assumes that everything is relative, and there are no absolutes (he is absolutely sure of that). Morey replies that the first thing an atheist must do is prove the existence of evil. By what process can an atheist identify evil? He must have a universal absolute to do so. Without an absolute reference point for "good" (which only God can provide), no one can identify what is good or evil. Thus without the existence of God, there is no "evil" or "good" in an absolute sense. Everything is relative. The problem of evil does not negate the existence of God. It actually requires it.

Many assume that because evil still exists today, God has not dealt with it. How can atheists assume that God has not already solved the problem of evil in such a way that neither His goodness nor omnipotence is limited? On what grounds do they limit what God can and cannot do to solve the problem? God has already solved the problem of evil. And He did it in a way in which He did not contradict His nature or the nature of man. We assume God will solve the problem of evil in one single act. But why can’t He deal with evil in a progressive way? Can’t He deal with it throughout time as we know it, and then bring it to the climax on the Day of Judgment?

God sent His Son to die on the cross in order to solve the problem of evil. Christ atoned for evil and secured the eventual removal of all evil from the earth. One day evil will be quarantined in one spot called "hell." Then there will be a perfect world devoid of all evil. If God declared that all evil would, at this moment, cease to exist, you and I and all of humanity would go up in a puff of smoke. Divine judgment demands that sin be punished.

https://www.nairaland.com/1507425/god-god-love-why-hasnt

rationalmind: Lol, later bro. I'm going to stamford bridge now.

lol. Them go wipe una.

rationalmind: No probs sis. I wasn't angry o. Its josh I'm just beefing.

rationalmind: Which of course had absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

take it easy na. Which kin vex be dis?

Nawa o.
You wan kill peson?

texanomaly: That was not meant as an insult. I am truly sorry. I was playing around with you. I tend to have a strange sense of humor. Again, I am sorry if I offended you. Please accept my sincere apology.

People have said I have a twisted sense o' humour too.

ATMC: chibuebem be like ' Ha! dem send you?' lol...guy relax joor, wetin sef?
yhu too dey take things personally, habatically!!!

The tone wey you dey write with make me think say you don become school teacher wey no dey tolerate nonsense.

rationalmind: This is why some of these guys insult you but I won't do that.

Did you bother to check if I said anything remotely related to what she said to me?

take it easy. I only quoted scripture to support what she said.

ATMC: that is directly...so indirectly?

Abeg madam adaobi. Have mercy on me. Na innocent llaf I dey laf abeg.

macof: ever since I left christianity I have become a better human being with a little more consciousness. That's what u get from mental independence, you feel free and high

Everybody has that level of consciousness that guides to morality, hygiene, intelligence and the right mentality. So atheist do work with conscience. Don't act as if consciousness is only active in christianity, because it's about human psychology not religion.

it seems you did not understand my post. You're contradicting yourself.

texanomaly: It was said with the utmost respect, in the spirit of camaraderie. abeg no vex

Dap07: yes you are..

so that's your reply?
After reading what I said that's your reply?

We're back at the beginning. I might as well repost what I said. This shows you're not even listening to me.
Oh well.

plaetton: Wow.
This is very interesting . I had not come across these passages before.
But here is the twist.
King Nebu-chadnezzar did not serve Yahweh. far from it. In fact , he was the king and high priest of the Babylonian god Nebu, hence the title Nebu-chadnezzer(faithful servant of Nebu).

This would be a contradiction.

This goes to prove , once again, that the Biblical scribes simply copied and plageurized ancient Babylonian scrolls and texts.

This got me laughing.
This is what happens when someone makes a conclusion from a verse taken out of context.

plaetton: And who envies you?
And the dead people, were they missing god in their lives too?

sorry, I didn't say that.
Jesus said that.(Where did envy come up? )



I don't know about the dead people. I don't have all knowledge.
But I know that Gods word works, and I trust him and take him at his word in all situations. And he's never been proved wrong.

texanomaly: Hmmm...thanks Josh

This was meant for 'rationalbehind' right?

@ Rationalmind
Please forgive me. I really just couldn't resist. It was all in fun. Please don't be angry.

yes, it was to support what you were saying to him.

Rationalbehind Lol. I'm sure you didn't do that on purpose.

aManFromMars: Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—.......

rightly divide the word of truth.

Profemmy001: Are u denying d authenticity if d bible?

no. I'm establishing its authenticity.

Out of the mouth of babes and infants, thou hast ordained praise
-psalm 8:2

texanomaly: You expect me to see your point of view, yet you won't even consider mine a remote possibility. Just because it can't be seen or touched, doesn't mean something doesn't exist.

John 8:23-24 Jesus said, "You're tied down to the mundane; I'm in touch with what is beyond your horizons. You live in terms of what you see and touch. I'm living on other terms. I told you that you were missing God in all this. You're at a dead end. If you won't believe I am who I say I am, you're at the dead end of sins. You're missing God in your lives."
(The Message)

The baby just has a nature tending to sin. He hasn't commited any yet. He's still innocent. Though he has a nature of sin.
God will not cast him into hell. Jesus died for the baby too.

I don't know how some people will think God is trying to populate hell when he died so he'll depopulate it. Smh

aManFromMars: And how would you know THAT?

I'll know it isn't God because he has said vengance is his. We're in the new and better covenant. The guidelines of this covenant are written in his word.

aManFromMars: Ah, my good man, I think I get you now.

SO those Church incident might just be God's calamity. Who knows? Maybe he didn't turn up at the night vigil.

When God wants to give calamity, you'll know. Trust me.

aManFromMars: The point is God can choose to wreak havoc or show love.

exactly. He can choose to give calamity as a punishment for sin to those he has warned over and over again to repent. In the old testament, the times and ways of judgement were determined by him and set by him.
In this dispensation, the times and period of judgement after the preaching of repentance and the gathering of the repented is revealed to us.
Things are falling into place

aManFromMars: Of course, it is. Just wait for that voice in your head to tell you when it's time to go take those sinners down. Salvation is of the Lord but he needs you to preach to us. Heaven is real, but you need to preach that us.



You see how MAN is always central to God's plans?

if I hear any voice in my head telling me to kill people, I'll know it isn't God. Jesus has come and gone physically. When God comes next, it'll be to judge the earth. He is in us now, preaching to the world to repent.
God's voice and spirit agrees with his word.

aManFromMars: Yeah, Bro.

Jeremiah 27
[b]Give them a message for their masters and say, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: “Tell this to your masters: 5 With my great power and outstretched arm I made the earth and its people and the animals that are on it, and I give it to anyone I please. 6 Now I will give all your countries into the hands of my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; I will make even the wild animals subject to him. 7 All nations will serve him and his son and his grandson until the time for his land comes; then many nations and great kings will subjugate him.

8 “‘“If, however, any nation or kingdom will not serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon or bow its neck under his yoke, I will punish that nation with the sword, famine and plague, declares the Lord, until I destroy it by his hand. 9 So do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your interpreters of dreams, your mediums or your sorcerers who tell you, ‘You will not serve the king of Babylon.’ 10 They prophesy lies to you that will only serve to remove you far from your lands; I will banish you and you will perish. 11 But if any nation will bow its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serve him, I will let that nation remain in its own land to till it and to live there, declares the Lord.”’”[/b]

how do you expect me to answer you credibly when you carry a verse out of its context and throw it at me?
You won't ask yourself why God made this statement, and to whom he was talking to.

aManFromMars: Are you insinuating that the people who died in this event may not have been ínnocent?


Some of the time. For the other times he isn't, he somehow convinces you it was for a greater purpose.


And what life lesson would this kid or anyone have taken from this? That God pushes people out the window so that he can resurrect them just for fun?


Yeah, right. I know where this is headed.


But if they had survived, we would all bow down and thank God for his faithfulness.


Of course. God doesn't like abortion so he sends his people to destroy such corrupt places.

smh.

The same God says overcome evil with good to his people. Bengance and judgement is mine he says. You blame God for human evil.

rationalmind: They not only believe it, they try to rationalise it. That's what surprises me the most. Is this incidence not sufficient to open their eyes? No. The person that shouted is at fault, God has better plans, God is good all the time.

that's because he says he is.
And we've seen his faithfulness. If anything happens out of sorts, then we look to ourselves. Because God is faithful.

Dap07: but he can lead people to die in broad day light, as in the case of the xmas day bombing in Niger state, for example abi? That aside, where did that 'inspiration' to hold a vigil come from?
So who is to be blamed?

Dap07: i quoted you, i'm expecting your answer..

Sorry, I didn't see.
The xmas day bombings is a different case, a case of persecution. This case is a simple accident.

You assume the inspiration to hold a vigil where innocent people will die because of an accident is from God?
You might as well assume the terrorists who kill people are from God because they claim to do it in Gods name.

God has already rightly put forth his character and his nature and what he's prone to do in the bible.
That people claim to do things in Gods name doesn't mean they actually are sent by God.

The atheists in this thread are just trying to blame God for any evil or mishap they see. When I come to try and get them to think straight, they call me deluded and foolish. Why would a God who protects his children send them to go and die in an accident?
The same God that has saved me from accidents by warning me and directing my going in and coming out.

This is just an attempt to blame societal evils on God. And I'm called biased and foolish. The roman empire also blamed earthquakes and natural disasters on the christians in old times.
I see no difference.

plaetton: If god doesn't answer your prayers, then why do you pray, mo.ron.?

you call me foolish and you cannot even understand the simple rationale behind that post.

plaetton: When adults drag their children and infants out at night to attend vigils, prayers and what ever to an invisible sky fairy week after week, month after month, year after year, then OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING IS WRONG somewhere.

One does not need rocket science to figure that out.
Yes, indeed , there are a lot of problems that confront the average Nigerian on a daily basis.

But is the magical fairy God the solution to the numerous problems, or is it a very big part of the problem itself.?

This is what requires critical thought.

the fairy and magical skydaddy doesn't answer prayers. But the living God I serve and know answers prayers and keeps his children. You're generalizing the issue.

"I prayed, God didn't answer me, he doesn't exist.
I claim to serve God, he didn't protect me, he doesn't exist."

^this is not credible thinking.

Something happpened when paul was preaching sommewhere in the bible. A young lad fell from a window, asleep. He died. God raised him up. God does not lead innocent people to die prematurely. There are many things to be taken into account.
Understand what I'm saying.

God is good.
What if paul did not take the lad up and raise him? Will you blame God?
God does not lead people to die in the middle of the night. Every good and perfect gift comes from him. This is a delicaate case to be scrutinized carefully if you really want answers.
It will do no good to blame God for these peoples deaths.

We might as well blame God for the bombing of abortion clinics.

texanomaly: I didn't respond, because I see this everywhere atheists gather. It is there 'hook' to real you into a debate.

its true...

And most of the time(I think), debates like that do no good.

macof: No! Must atheist like their conscience set the rules, and they follow it.

When I man follows those rules, he is free from sin

yes.(Have you followed your conscience perfectly btw? If you've violated it, then that's when you're guilty of sin). Atheists claim there are no moral absolutes.
But they know this is not true.

Once they claim to have a conscience, they shoot themselves in the foot. Who put the conscience there? Who designed it and made it so present that even a baby knows right from wrong? If there is a conscience, and if there is good and evil, then there are moral absolutes. Then there's an absolute lawgiver and judge: God.

Even dawkins noticed this, that's why he denied there is anything like good and evil. According to dawkins, there is no good and evil, just nature and evolution and its wicked cycles(my words)


I learn a lot from tex. But I also realize that if I don't preach and pray, people will die and go to hell. If we don't prech this good news of forgiveness, people will die in their sins.