₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
Jozzy4:The difference is your lack of comprehension,

Achorladey: Really? or your usual distraction?


Jozzy4: 1Tim 2:5 can be explained as relating to the New Covenant , have seen some commentaries even do this. Relating it with heb 9:15 Gods elect ones . so its when Watchtower does it that it becomes an issue

Achorladey: Did I see your TYPED RELATING to the NEW COVENANT. Hahahahaha and Hebrews 9:15. Hahahahaha.


So what does that tell you about those Christ is mediating for in 1 Timothy 2:15?

Jozzy4: when Watchtower does it that it becomes an issue


Achorladey: The issues the people have with watchtower is saying some people teaches and preach this and tag it FALSE DOCTRINE while the WATCHTOWER teaches the same thing in CODED TERMS.

If you know you know. But don't come back with new adjustments and latest understanding conundrum.

Jozzy4: The difference between Bible students and majority others is while they believe everyone's destination is heaven,

Achorladey: Are you sure it's the BIBLE STUDENTS alone that BELIEVES everyone is going to HEAVEN. Is that BELIEVE a monopoly of the BIBLE STUDENTS?

Jozzy4: Bible teach the prospect of a new earth which many swept under the carpet.

Achorladey: I want to believe your many to MEAN not ALL


Jozzy4: as relating to new covenant the ruled on earth are not King's . so in that sense Jesus mediatorship of new covenant is for some not everyone. But if someone teach everyone's destination is heaven, such ones would say it's for everyone. One key feature " those in the new covenant go to heaven as King and priest ".

Achorladey: Are you backtracking again after your opening words or what?

Jozzy4: But If Everyone either in new earth or heaven PRAYED through Jesus name as intercessor, in this context Jesus is a mediator of all , so they are not wrong to use the verse as you indicated above.

Achorladey: We have repeatedly asked what is this MEDIATORSHIP based upon?

Jozzy4:Context matters ,

Achorladey: I know. The reason you have decided not to agree that the mediatorship of CHRIST is based on the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT.

Jozzy4: its your inability to differentiate when an author discuss Jesus role as it relate to new covenant from Jesus role as intercessor in prayer . giving you issues

Achorladey: After interceding for whoever and whatever, who is that SINGLE MEDIATOR between us and GOD. Why is it stated in that scripture that way?

The bold has been my main point all through. Those on earth are not in the new covenant . the new covenant hold the promise of King and priest . Rulers !

Those on earth are not rulers , oh, u won't agree .... Tell me whom they rule upon ?

achorladey:
Jozzy4: Use your sense,

Achorladey: If I had not been using it, you should by now not see me as an individual to discuss with.

Jozzy4: it didn't say they will reign " IN " earth. It says " ON ".

Achorladey: Did you see me say IN there in the scripture cited? Usual distraction.

Jozzy4: when something is ON, it doesn't mean its inside of it.

Achorladey: Hahahahaha. When something is ON another thing can it be said to be part of it or attached to it?

Jozzy4: Hebrews 3:1 says partakers of heavenly calling. Showing the destination from where they rule ON earth.

Achorladey: but it doesn't tell you it means from where the CALL to being made ROYALS came but DESTINATION. Na only DESTINATION you see?

Jozzy4: That same Greek word rendered " on " was translated " OVER " Matthew 18:13. so NWT says " OVER " the earth. Jesus promise HIS DISCIPLE'S that he will take them to be in his FATHERS HOUSE, these are the same people he PROMISED the HOPE of sitting on thrones as Kings. They ruled from Heaven , over earth


That makes those on earth - Subjects! Not kings

Achorladey: How many are the JESUS' DISCIPLES we are talking about here? Are they the ONES in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT?

Those that are of the SUBJECTS are THEY part of the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT? How many are they?

Respond properly to the bold

CAPTIVATOR:
You ? Do u grasp the sense ?


It's funny u talk about testing but had been struggling to grasp difference between a covenant for those called and Jesus mediating for all men.

U are equating it to the same thing, that's where your problem started. If an expression reads those called, it's logical that some are not called.

But another expression says " all men " . logically everyone either called or not.

With those differences , no sound Bible student will equate the two context of mediatorship.

Thank you Brother . Tomorrow they will say some people can't think independently yet they rely on apostate website to function , ask them anything they run to do copy and paste from there . But it's clear those teaching them didn't give them proper orientation .so refusal to eat from Jehovah's people, they still can't think independently , am still disappointed they rely on others.

rottennaija:
The only problem with your rulers are that they are rulers that is kings and are also the kingdom, that is " an area that is controlled by a particular person or where a particular person is important". So according to Re 5:9,10, they are not just kings but are also a kingdom.

Re 5:10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

Unless of course, those ruled over on the earth are now the domain or area in which the king rules, those ruled over are the Kingdom.

To think you typed the above is a pity, real pity .

I underlined something above, Kingdom to WHO ? God .

God is their own ruler. But God is using them to rule OVER the earth.

That makes those earth Subjects to these God appointed kings and himself.

So those on earth are ruled over NOT Kings.

achorladey:
Jozzy4: EVERYONE who is NOT a KING in that country are subjects. BECAUSE the KING Reign ON THEM.

Achorladey: So who among those in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that is not a KING?

Jozzy4: So your position at bold lacks credence,

Achorladey: The bold we are talking about here is

"YOUR ANSWER WILL BE NO BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE ON EARTH"

Did you see that I raised this question below on your behalf which I answered with what you bolded.

This is the question......ARE THEY PART OF THE ONLY ONE AND NEW COVENANT?

So if you state the position there lacks credence, it's never my position, it's yours.

Jozzy4: the bible said they reign on EARTH . that makes EVERYONE on EARTH a SUBJECT .

Achorladey: Revelation 5:10 You have APPOINTED THEM as a KINGDOM and PRIESTS to SERVE our God, and THEY will REIGN on the EARTH.”

So how are they still SUBJECTS?

Use your sense, it didn't say they will reign " IN " earth. It says " ON " . when something is ON , it doesn't mean its inside of it. . Hebrews 3:1 says partakers of heavenly calling. Showing the destination from where they rule ON earth.

That same Greek word rendered " on " was translated " OVER " Matthew 18:13 . so NWT says " OVER " the earth . Jesus promise his disciple's that he will take them to be in his Fathers house, these are the same people he promised the hope of sitting on thrones as Kings. They ruled from Heaven , over earth

That makes those on earth - Subjects! Not kings

achorladey:
rottennaija: So dear friends, Jesus is not even your mediator according to watchtower unless you claim to be among the 144000. But of course, if you can claim that Jesus is your mediator, then it seems we are looking forward the welcoming new apostates

Achorladey: It looks and sound interesting, and considering this was printed in Watchtower of June 2014 with article titled

THREE 16th-Century TTruth SEEKERS​—WHAT Did THEY FIND?


What enabled Capito, Cellarius, Campanus, and others to reject certain church teachings? They did what the first-century Beroeans did, who examined the Scriptures carefully “to see whether these things were so.” ( Acts 17:11 )


Here are some of the three Reformers’ findings:

CHURCH TEACHING : Saints may be venerated as intercessors with God.


WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY

“There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.”​— 1 Timothy 2:5

Why will one not be expected to ask the question again

Is Christ the mediator of 144,000 alone? The expected ANSWER according to JWS THEOLOGY as highlighted in the INDEX pasted is YES.

But YES become NO when it comes to to CHURCH TEACHINGS which can be replaced with JWS THEOLOGY and you still see that YES becomes NO.

Where is the DIFFERENCE?

The difference is your lack of comprehension , 1Tim 2:5 can be explained as relating to the New Covenant , have seen some commentaries even do this. Relating it with heb 9:15 Gods elect ones . so its when Watchtower does it that it becomes an issue

The difference between Bible students and majority others is while they believe everyone's destination is heaven, Bible teach the prospect of a new earth which many swept under the carpet . as relating to new covenant the ruled on earth are not King's . so in that sense Jesus mediatorship of new covenant is for some not everyone. But if someone teach everyone's destination is heaven, such ones would say it's for everyone. One key feature " those in the new covenant go to heaven as King and priest " .

But If Everyone either in new earth or heaven PRAYED through Jesus name as intercessor, in this context Jesus is a mediator of all , so they are not wrong to use the verse as you indicated above.

Context matters , its your inability to differentiate when an author discuss Jesus role as it relate to new covenant from Jesus role as intercessor in prayer . giving you issues !

rottennaija:
How about kingdom? How does Cambridge dictionary defines a kingdom?

How does this negate the fact that Those on earth are not rulers ?

Kingdom , Cambridge
" an area that is controlled by a particular person or where a particular person is important

The kingdom OF GOD "

Good example it cites

So God owns all in heaven and earth . his kingdom

But only those brought from earth to heaven are said to be RULERS .

Their territory ... Earth .

achorladey:
Jozzy4: Let the scripture answer you boldly

Achorladey: okay

Jozzy4: Rev 5:10

"and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God , and they are to RULE AS KINGS over the earth"

Achorladey: Yes, Revelation 5:10....You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

Jozzy4: Those over whom the King rule are subject, not Kings !!!

Achorladey: and who are the SUBJECT in this case?

Obviously you will say those on the EARTH? Simply because they are on EARTH and since they are on earth to you they are not part of the one and only new covenant.

Are they part of the only one and new covenant?


Your answer will be NO because these people are on EARTH.

So according to my position that you bolded what does that tell you about those in the one and only new covenant?

Jozzy4: Notice those called to rule , are not said to be ruling over each other.

Achorladey: And did you see me state that those ruling are ruling over each other?

Jozzy4: They are Kings, those whom they rule are on earth,they are subjects not kings.

Achorladey: Who are the subjects the kings are ruling over?

Jozzy4: exposing your fraudulent claim that all are kings.

Achorladey: what fraudulent claim are you talking about? That Jesus made as many as possible that received him GOD'S CHILDREN(ROYALS) and HEIR to the promise a fraudulent act?

Cambridge dictionary defines reign as " to be the King or Queen of a country "

Everyone who is not a king in that country are subjects. Because the king Reign ON them.

So your position at bold lacks credence, the bible said they reign on EARTH . that makes everyone on earth a subject .

Subject meaning

3. a member of a state other than its ruler

Those on earth are not rulers . get sense

achorladey:
CAPTIVATOR: You? Do u grasp the sense ?

Achorladey: Oga CAPTIVATOR it's been a while. Welcome back! Concerning the question you will know the answer very soon.

CAPTIVATOR: It's funny u talk about testing.

Achorladey: What are we testing here? Oga CAPTIVATOR.

CAPTIVATOR: but had been struggling to grasp difference between a covenant for those called and Jesus mediating for all men.

Achorladey: You sure about that. Well your contributions will be well received and it seems you have some included here already.

CAPTIVATOR: U are equating it to the same thing, that's where your problem started.

Achorladey: It's good you know where my problem started. I believe you can find solutions to it. To start with,

what is CHRIST MEDIATING for ALL MEN based UPON?

CAPTIVATOR: If an expression reads those called, it's logical that some are not called.

Achorladey: Fine, then who are THOSE CALLED and those not CALLED?

CAPTIVATOR: But another expression says " all men ". logically everyone either called or not.

Achorladey: We are still dealing with EVERYONE EITHER CALLED or NOT amongst the ALL MEN. So who are they? as it relates with the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT.

CAPTIVATOR: With those differences , no sound Bible student will equate the two context of mediatorship.

achorladey: What's the TWO CONTEXT of MEDIATORSHIP we are dealing with here?

Comprehension.

He is telling you there is difference between what Is identified with those called and another identified with all men.

Some called to be king and priest , others are not.

achorladey:
Jozzy4: @bold, Why did you avoid that psalm 37:29 ? yeye

Achorladey: This is Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

So what is in there? Or simply because the RIGHTEOUS are on earth means they are not ROYALS?

Jozzy4: Revelation 21:3,4 God tent is with MANKIND. Not spirits,

showing it refer to life on earth. these ones are not partakers of heavenly calling for members of new covenant. Thus excluded

Achorladey: This is 2 Corinthians 6:16 again And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Where is the SPIRIT you are talking about? and equally show were it is stated that these ones mentioned in Revelation are not partakers of the ONE and ONLY COVENANTS?

Or perhaps because you mean because the 144,000 are spirits KINGS and PRIEST in heaven God don't dwell in them too. Hahahahahaha.

Jozzy4: Hebrews 3:1 " partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING "

Achorladey: Hebrew 3:1 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus.

Where did you see here that HOLY BROTHERS equate to 144,000 and are the ONLY partakers of HEAVENLY CALLING. Where?

Phillipians 3: 20, 21 But our CITIZENSHIP EXISTS in the HEAVENS, and we are eagerly waiting for a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our humble body to be like his glorious body by his great power that enables him to subject all things to himself

Is the OUR here for 144,000 alone?

Jozzy4: John 3:8 God called who is member of the new covenant. Their destination is Heaven.

Achorladey: This is John 3:8.......The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit.

Show me where it states So EVERYONE WHO has BEEN BORN from the SPIRIT are NOT MORE THAN 144,000. simple!

Jozzy4: Numbering 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 " [b] these were brought from AMONG MANKIND as first fruits to God and to the Lamb "

Achorladey: I dont want to believe you want to use wuruwuru to the answer.

You have not even shown how God called those in the NEW COVENANT from the statement recorded in John 3:8 you are already giving me numbers of those called. Hahahahahaha.

Jozzy4: You see the number called from AMONG MANKIND?

Achorladey: I can see 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 but I see no correllation between it and John 3:8 and how it relates with the one and only NEW COVENANT.

Jozzy4: If done, would you admit they are not part of royal priesthood?

Achorladey: Bring it on let me see.

Jozzy4: My point remains those on earth are not in the covenant for those called to serve as King and Priest in heaven.

Achorladey: You agreed earlier that those in the one and only new covenant are christians. Since you agree, my point remains for all those in this one and only new covenant they remain as King and Priest irrespective of their DESTINATION( Heaven or Earth).

Simply because christ made them HEIRS of the PROMISE and as many as christ can this was stated clearly

John 1:12......However, to ALL WHO did RECEIVE him( and not "to 144,000 that received", he gave authority to become GOD'S CHILDREN (ROYALS), because they were exercising faith in his name.

Let the scripture answer you boldly

Rev 5:10

" and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God , and they are to RULE AS KINGS [b] over the earth "

Those over whom the King rule are subject, not Kings !!!

Notice those called to rule , are not said to be ruling over each other. They are Kings, those whom they rule are on earth, they are subjects not kings . exposing your fraudulent claim that all are kings .

achorladey:
Jozzy4: I can understand your situation.

Achorladey: What is the situation you can understand? Before it was dem don brainwash this one. Now it the SITUATION. Is this another usual diversionary tactics?

Jozzy4: But at least we agree that Christ Mediatorship of new covenant is for those invited - Heb 9:15 .

Achorladey: Who are the those INVITED? Christ mediatorship is based on the one and only new covenant that comes with a promise and 1 Timothy 2:5 states he(Jesus Christ) is the ONE mediator between men and God. He is not mediating for 144,000 alone, the one and only new covenant is not for them alone.

Jozzy4: Hope of everlasting life is a promise to the entire world of Adam, even those who DIED before Jesus came

Achorladey: As if I said GIFT of everlasting life is not for EVERYONE including those who died before Jesus Christ came to the world.

Don't forget you cited Titus 1:2 about hope of everlasting life, I refer you back to Titus 1:1 that the word is said to be for GOD'S CHOSEN ONES the same CHOSEN used in 1 Peter 2:9.

Therefore going by the JW theology or YOURS, the hope EXPRESSED in the Titus 1:2 cited by you will equally be for the 144,000 alone. But you are the one using it now to tell me now it's for EVERYONE. When you can equally see CHOSEN there too.

Jozzy4: .that alone debunks your claim
( John 3:16) . forgotten Jesus takes away the sin of the entire world?

Achorladey:Before you read this you will know if your indeed debunking and what CLAIM you are debunking?

Your mind did not tell you The lamb that take away the sin of the world was the one used to establish the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that carries Promise that makes them SONS and HEIRS of the PROMISE. Hahahahahaha!

Jozzy4: Evidenced by Revelation 21:1-4 , which speaks of People on earth . psalm 37:29 living forever on earth.

Achorladey: As if I said the one and only new covenant is for ANGELS, SERAPHS and CHERUBS. E get as e be.

Just to make you think a bit when Paul said this in

2 Corinthians 6:16.....

what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a TEMPLE of a LIVING GOD; just as God SAID: “I will RESIDE among THEM and WALK among THEM, and I will be their GOD, and they will be my PEOPLE.

Do you see any relationship here with the account in Revelations 21:1-4.....

Will God do this in HEAVEN or EARTH? Is it also for the 144,000?

Jozzy4: Jesus promise the thief on his side a hope of Paradise on earth - Luke 23:43

Achorladey: Oga Jozzy4 fear GOD did you see "on EARTH" in that scripture you cited there.

Jozzy4: In the statement "

Achorladey: Yes, which I believe is one of JESUS Christ

Jozzy4: My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life.” John 10:26-28,

Achorladey: save yourselves of that John 10:16 already said this

And I have OTHER SHEEP, which are not of this fold; those too I MUST BRING IN, and they will listen to my voice, and they will BECOME ONE FLOCK, ONE SHEPHERD

Are they outside of the little flock or inside alongside the little flock?

Ephesians 2: I cited earlier is still available. If you had not read it go and read it again from verse 11-22.

Jozzy4: the other sheep were spoken of as having everlasting life despite not been royal priests or ruling class

Achorladey: I thought the 144,000 which jws theology regards as the little flock already have everlasting life without the new covenant. hahahahaha!

How many FLOCK of SHEEP JESUS get?

@bold, Why did you avoid that psalm 37:29 ? yeye

Revelation 21:3,4 God tent is with MANKIND. Not spirits , showing it refer to life on earth . these ones are not partakers of heavenly calling for members of new covenant. Thus excluded

Jozzy4: " FOR FUTURE " . seems you are sleeping when quoting that.

Achorladey: It's no longer you can't see but SLEEPING.

You said what is RESERVED has not been REVEALED. I showed you the meaning of RESERVED to be what is kept and it doesn't mean it has not been REVEALED.

I am wondering who has been sleeping now.

Jozzy4: 2Tim 2:12 if we endure Now, we shall RULE as kings.

Achorladey: This is 2 Timothy 2:11, 12...This saying is trustworthy: Certainly if we died together, we will also live together; 12 if we go on enduring, we will also rule together as kings; if we deny, he will also deny us.

Jozzy4 are you dying in CHRIST? The way you live your life now do you live it to Christ? Will you live together with Christ and rule together as Kings with him? Or this scripture is only for 144,000.

2 Corinthians 5:14,15....For the love the Christ has compels us, because this is what we have concluded, that one man died for all; so, then, all had died. 15 And he died for all so that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised up

Yet you are dragging me back, didn't you see this scripture in the last post. Here it is again

From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not to me only, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation.

Jozzy4: Endurance comes first now before getting that future promise associated with the new covenant

Achorladey: Do I have to tell you ENDURANCE is a quality all Christians must have?

Is endurance only for 144,000 that will rule with
christ according to Jw theology or yours.

Do you ENDURE as a CHRISTIAN and since it comes first will you AGREE you will get that future promise Associated with the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT?

2 Peter 1: 5-8 For this very reason, put forth all earnest effort to supply to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, 6 to your knowledge self-control, to your self-control ENDURANCE, to your ENDURANCE GODLY DEVOTION, 7 to your godly devotion brotherly affection, to your brotherly affection love. 8 For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jozzy4: Appointed to serve as Kings and Priest - Royal priesthood.

Achorladey: Eh en.

Jozzy4: And will rule over the earth.

Achorladey: Will reign on earth.

Jozzy4: Empty earth?

Achorladey: Na you make an EMPTY?

Jozzy4: Great crowd are putting faith in Jesus as as well as they are spoken of as owing their salvation to the Lamb.

Achorladey: I thought the 144,000 don't need to put faith in JESUS as well as OWE THEIR SALVATION to the LAMB. Hahahahahaha. Na only great crowd you see. Who are the GREAT CROWD?

Jozzy4: so that debunks your claim that someone putting faith in Jesus automatically makes them a member of new covenant.

Achorladey: where the CLAIM dey ooo make I see.

Did 144,000 not put faith in JESUS CHRIST before they are part of the the one and only new covenant?

You have repeatedly cited Hebrews 9:15 here it is again


That is why he is a MEDIATOR of a NEW COVENANT , in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.

Where is it stated here that it is for the 144,000 alone or ONLY 144,000 are those CALLED ? Just show us. simple!

But we have repeatedly told you the mediatorship of JESUS CHRIST is based on this ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT that carries EVERLASTING PROMISE. rottennaija gave you a formula you rejected it but failed to provide yours.

Hebrews 3:1 " partakers of the HEAVENLY CALLING "

John 3:8 God called who is member of the new covenant. Their destination is Heaven .

Numbering 144,000 Rev 14:1,3 " [b] these were brought from AMONG MANKIND as first fruits to God and to the Lamb "

You see the number called from AMONG MANKIND ?

Jozzy4: Great crowd are on earth

Achorladey: Oga Jozzy4 Prove am oooo.

If done, would you admit they are not part of royal priesthood ?

My point remains those on earth are not in the covenant for those called to serve as King and Priest in heaven .

I can understand your situation. But at least we agree that Christ Mediatorship of new covenant is for those invited - Heb 9:15 .

achorladey:
Jozzy4: Titus 1:2 " HOPE of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie, promised long ago "

Achorladey: This is Titus 1:1-2 Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ according to the faith of GOD’S CHOSEN ONES and the accurate knowledge of the truth that is according to godly devotion 2 and is based on a hope of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie, promised long ago;

You can CLEARLY see GOD'S CHOSEN ONES,

were we to go in line with JWS THEOLOGY as it relates with PAUL'S statement in verse 1 of Titus 1 regarding GOD'S CHOSEN ONES it will simply means from the JW theology the promise of EVERLASTING LIFE is only for the 144,000 but here you are trying to tell us the PROMISE which this HOPE is based stated here is for EVERYONE when you can equally see the same CHOSEN in 1 Peter 2: 9 used here.


Hahahahaha!. Does that not send a message to you concerning the HOPE all CHRISTIANS have?


Jozzy4: That's the one HOPE everyone is called either in the new heaven or new earth.

Achorladey: the GIFT of EVERLASTING LIFE is already in the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT. Romans 6:23.

Hope of everlasting life is a promise to the entire world of Adam, even those who DIED before Jesus came .that alone debunks your claim
( John 3:16) . forgotten Jesud takes away the sin of the entire world ?

Evidenced by Revelation 21:1-4 , which speaks of People on earth . psalm 37:29 living forever on earth .

Jesus promise the theif on his side a hope of Paradise on earth - Luke 23:43

In the statement "
My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life.” John 10:26-28, the other sheep were spoken of as having everlasting life despite not been royal priests or ruling class

Jozzy4: Discussing this inheritance for INVITED members of New Covenant, Peter said " it is RESERVED in the heavens for you ".

Achorladey: please do tell us WHO are INVITED and those not INVITED?

Take a look at the scriptures below and see how your RESERVED know HEAVEN applies....

Colossians 1: 3-5 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all the holy ones 5 because of the hope that is being RESERVED for YOU in the HEAVENS. You previously heard about this hope through the message of truth of the good news.

2 Timothy 4:8.From this time on, there is RESERVED for ME the of RIGHTEOUSNESS, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a REWARD in that day, yet not to ME ONLY, but also TO ALL THOSE who have LOVED HIS MANIFESTATION

1 Peter 1:3,4: Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a NEW BIRTH to a living HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is RESERVED in the HEAVENS for you,

Hebrews 11: 6. Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the REWARDER of those EARNESTLY SEEKING HIM.

Matthew 5: 11,12 “Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake. 12 Rejoice and be overjoyed, since your REWARD is great in the HEAVENS, for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you.

When REWARD is said to be RESERVED in HEAVEN it means it's SOURCE of ORIGIN is from THERE. Therefore this question

DOES it MEAN we have to go there to get it?

Jozzy4: When something is reserved, its yet to be revealed fully.

Achorladey: Really? here is RESERVED according to Webster.....

KEPT or SET apart or  ASIDE for FUTURE or SPECIAL USE.

Does it mean it has not been REVEALED?

Oga Jozzy4 I go like make use of your dictionary.

it is not fully REVEALED yet you know that they are KINGS and PRIESTS, is that not part of what is REVEALED?

It has not BEEN REVEALED the writers make use of APPOINTED, CHOSEN, MADE, SEATED e. t. c when writing all of these?

" FOR FUTURE " . seems you are sleeping when quoting that.

2Tim 2:12 if we endure Now, we shall RULE as kings .

Endurance comes first now before getting that future promise associated with the new covenant

Jozzy4: Rev 5:9,10 should open your dull eyes to the fact that this invited ones will RULE over Earth

Achorladey: My eyes are widely open and I don't use aid when reading. Don't know about you though.

This is Revelation 5:9,10

They were singing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed, and at the cost of your OWN BLOOD you HAVE PURCHASED for God PERSONS from EVERY TRIBE, LANGUAGE, PEOPLE, and NATION. 10 You have APPOINTED them as a KINGDOM and PRIESTS to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”




Show me the INVITED ONES in the scriptures CITED?

Appointed to serve as Kings and Priest - Royal priesthood.

And will rule over the earth.

Empty earth ?

Great crowd are putting faith in Jesus as as well as they are spoken of as owing their salvation to the Lamb . so that debunks your claim that someone putting faith in Jesus automatically makes them a member of new covenant. Great crowd are on earth

achorladey:
The ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT is for CHRISTIANS.

The ONE and ONLY COVENANT carries a PROMISE for CHRISTIANS.

There is only ONE HOPE of YOUR CALLING for CHRISTIANS. Ephesians 4:4.

Titus 1:2 " HOPE of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie, promised long ago "

That's the one HOPE everyone is called either in the new heaven or new earth .

HOPE is based on PROMISE.

The PROMISE that comes alongside the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT is to become SONS of the KING and the HIGH PRIEST. In ESSENCE ROYALS.


Ephesians 2:6 Moreover, he RAISED US UP together and SEATED us TOGETHER in the HEAVENLY places in union with Christ Jesus.

SEATED written in the past.


Ephesians 2: 12-14 At that time you were without Christ, alienated from the state of ISRAEL, strangers to the COVENANTS of the PROMISE; you had no HOPE and were without GOD in the world. 13 But now in UNION with CHRIST JESUS, you who were ONCE FAR OFF have come to be near by the BLOOD of the CHRIST. 14 For he is our peace, the one who made the TWO GROUPS one and DESTROYED the wall in BETWEEN that FENCED THEM OFF( should in case you want to BRING your 144,000 and great crowd of "OTHER SHEEP" in or ONLY THOSE INVITED palaver.


See this below as well.....1 Corinthians 10:.16-18
 Is not the cup of blessing that we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread that we break a sharing in the body of Christ?17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all share the one bread. 18 Look at the people of Israel. Are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar?


Revelation 1: 5,6.....and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he MADE us to be a KINGDOM, PRIESTS to his GOD and FATHER—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

another past tense in the use of MADE


1 Peter 2:9 But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light

CHOSEN another past tense used

Indeed those who Christ mediate the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT are made ROYALS irrespective of their DESTINATION in future which Christ told his disciples he is coming back to take them there.

In summary John 1:12
However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become GOD’S CHILDREN, because they were exercising faith in his name.

Son of a King/priest does that not tell you they are ROYALS? So it's not until they RULE over someone there status as ROYAL takes EFFECT it's part of what the one and only new COVENANT carries.


The reason Galatians 3: 26 You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3: 29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, HEIRS with REFERENCE to a PROMISE

Discussing this inheritance for INVITED members of New Covenant, Peter said " it is RESERVED in the heavens for you " .

When something is reserved, its yet to be revealed fully.

Rev 5:9,10 should open your dull eyes to the fact that this invited ones will RULE over Earth .

achorladey:
The ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT is for CHRISTIANS.

The ONE and ONLY COVENANT carries a PROMISE for CHRISTIANS.

There is only ONE HOPE of YOUR CALLING for CHRISTIANS. Ephesians 4:4.

HOPE is based on PROMISE.

The PROMISE that comes alongside the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT is to become SONS of the KING and the HIGH PRIEST. In ESSENCE ROYALS.


Ephesians 2:6 Moreover, he RAISED US UP together and SEATED us TOGETHER in the HEAVENLY places in union with Christ Jesus.

SEATED written in the past.


Ephesians 2: 12-14 At that time you were without Christ, alienated from the state of ISRAEL, strangers to the COVENANTS of the PROMISE; you had no HOPE and were without GOD in the world. 13 But now in UNION with CHRIST JESUS, you who were ONCE FAR OFF have come to be near by the BLOOD of the CHRIST. 14 For he is our peace, the one who made the TWO GROUPS one and DESTROYED the wall in BETWEEN that FENCED THEM OFF( should in case you want to BRING your 144,000 and great crowd of "OTHER SHEEP" in or ONLY THOSE INVITED palaver.


See this below as well.....1 Corinthians 10:.16-18
 Is not the cup of blessing that we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread that we break a sharing in the body of Christ?17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all share the one bread. 18 Look at the people of Israel. Are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar?


Revelation 1: 5,6.....and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he MADE us to be a KINGDOM, PRIESTS to his GOD and FATHER—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

another past tense in the use of MADE


1 Peter 2:9 But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light

CHOSEN another past tense used

Indeed those who Christ mediate the ONE and ONLY NEW COVENANT are made ROYALS irrespective of their DESTINATION in future which Christ told his disciples he is coming back to take them there.

In summary John 1:12
However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become GOD’S CHILDREN, because they were exercising faith in his name.

Son of a King/priest does that not tell you they are ROYALS? [b] So it's not until they RULE over someone there status as ROYAL takes EFFECT it's part of what the one and only new COVENANT carries.


The reason Galatians 3: 26 You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3: 29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, HEIRS with REFERENCE to a PROMISE.

Dem don brainwash this guy die

O , boy

rottennaija:
Why don't you simply write your own Bible? Do you can include what you want and remove those you don't

rottennaija:
Your first sentence say, not just forgiveness of sins. With the expression, not just, do you mean forgiveness of sins is included?

Secondly, you quoted Heb 9:15, what is the release by ransom of transgression under the former covenant? Isn't that forgiveness of sins? Isn't that why the former covenant was made obsolete? Because it couldn't lead to forgiveness of sins permanently and require frequent animal sacrifice?

Now, if you observe, me and Achorladey has always day that the bases for the new covenant has been the forgiveness of sins. Without the forgiveness of sins, anyone called cannot receive any inheritance anywhere. We have not said anything about whether inheritance will be heavenly or earthly, whether all true Christians will be in heaven or earth.

It's only the new covenant we have been talking about and that the very reason it was given was for the forgiveness of sins! Then we mentioned other aspects of the new covenant too eg. God's word written in our hearts, no one saying know Jehovah, and though we have not really spoken about it, the promise a kingdom of priests and a holy nation is also included in the new covenant promises but not just that.

Moreover, the promise of a kingdom of priests and a holy nation is a carryover promise from the old covenant. God has promise them that if their kept his mosaic law covenant, he would make them (entire nation of Israel numbering into millions and their descendants) a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

Exodus 19:5 Now if you will obey me and keep my covenant, you will be my own special treasure from among all the nations of the earth; for all the earth belongs to me.
Exodus 19:6 And you will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation.' Give this message to the Israelites."

We did not include those aspects of the old covenant or mention them in the new covenant. What we needed to establish was that the very bases why the new covenant came into force was for the forgiveness of sins by Jesus shed blood. Other promises follow.

It seems it not just me that has a long way to go, it probably seems you have a long way to go. It's there in the very verse of Heb 9:15 you quoted but you simply couldn't see it. I'm not going to say you refused to, I know it use to happen to me, you will see something in the very verse you carry and you simply tune off your mind because it's not your doctrine.

See Hebrews 9:15 in another translation:
That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people , so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

Only those INVITED . John 3:8 . heavenly invitation - Heb 3:1 .

Not all men.

Let me laugh

rottennaija:
Your first sentence say, not just forgiveness of sins. With the expression, not just, do you mean forgiveness of sins is included?

Secondly, you quoted Heb 9:15, what is the release by ransom of transgression under the former covenant? Isn't that forgiveness of sins? Isn't that why the former covenant was made obsolete? Because it couldn't lead to forgiveness of sins permanently and require frequent animal sacrifice?

Now, if you observe, me and Achorladey has always day that the bases for the new covenant has been the forgiveness of sins. Without the forgiveness of sins, anyone called cannot receive any inheritance anywhere. We have not said anything about whether inheritance will be heavenly or earthly, whether all true Christians will be in heaven or earth.

It's only the new covenant we have been talking about and that the very reason it was given was for the forgiveness of sins! Then we mentioned other aspects of the new covenant too eg. God's word written in our hearts, no one saying know Jehovah, and though we have not really spoken about it, the promise a kingdom of priests and a holy nation is also included in the new covenant promises. but not just that

Moreover, the promise of a kingdom of priests and a holy nation is a carryover promise from the old covenant. God has promise them that if their kept his mosaic law covenant, he would make them (entire nation of Israel numbering into millions and their descendants) a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

Exodus 19:5 Now if you will obey me and keep my covenant, you will be my own special treasure from among all the nations of the earth; for all the earth belongs to me.
Exodus 19:6 And you will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation.' Give this message to the Israelites."

We did not include those aspects of the old covenant or mention them in the new covenant. What we needed to establish was that the very bases why the new covenant came into force was for the forgiveness of sins by Jesus shed blood. Other promises follow.

It seems it not just me that has a long way to go, it probably seems you have a long way to go. It's there in the very verse of Heb 9:15 you quoted but you simply couldn't see it. I'm not going to say you refused to, I know it use to happen to me, you will see something in the very verse you carry and you simply tune off your mind because it's not your doctrine.

See Hebrews 9:15 in another translation:
That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

give me space to laugh

rottennaija:
First and foremost, the context of my question was about seed. Probably the use of children carries a wrong signal in your head.

Secondly, it's you and your kind who brings promise of kings and priest to the new covenant. I had explained to your friends earlier in the thread that the new covenant was made for the forgiveness of sins, where Jesus explicitly said in Luke 22:20 " This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you—an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you.


We have always said the new covenant was made for the forgiveness of sins. This Jesus confirms while fulfilling the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:33

"But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day," says the Lord. "I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their family, saying, 'You should know the Lord.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will already know me," says the Lord. "And I will forgive their wickedness and will never again remember their sins."

It was our position that the new covenant was designed for the forgiveness of sins, having God's law written in our heart, now obeying the mosaic laws etc (I'm working on an article on it and will post it soon)

Not just forgiveness of sins. U have a long way to go with this mentality


" That is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgression under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance" Heb 9;15

Explaining this inheritance further , 1 Pet 1:4 states " it is reserved in the heavens for you " , 2:9 says they are Royal Priesthood.

So this is why New Covenant was formed. So that those called can receive this inheritance and rule as Kings and priest to restore Gods original purposes.

rottennaija:
Jozzy4, I am sensible enough to understand the context of your quotations. But you were not sensible enough to understand the follow up questions, which you created avenue for. I understand that you wanted to avoid the contraction of Kings also being kingdoms, but you lack sense when you said kings can also be kingdoms when you referred to 1 Ki 11:1 which obviously referred to the royal line. It's you who created your problems not me. I am just trying to understand every facet of this new lights.

Now, I am asking you, who are the children of these 144000 kings? Their royal line or kingdom?

No one lacks sense , if you can't comprehend its a different ball game . the verse 1 says seed of the kingdom . who is represented as Kingdom ?

Verse 2 clarified ' sons of THE KING who were to be put to death "

Its clear its the King that was represented as Kingdom . in the statement seed of the kingdom.

That's my point

achorladey:
The thread is not closed yet and let the interesting thread keep it flow don't divert it with YOUR BEEN EXPOSED.

Concerning being EXPOSED, what is CHRIST MEDIATORSHIP based upon? 1 Timothy 2:15.

A. No COVENANT just mediating.
B. On NEW COVENANT with better promises.
C. OLD COVENANT.

A and B.

Different .

One is for ALL men

The other Is for " those who have been called " Heb 9:15

achorladey:
Just tell me, WHO are the THOSE who will be on EARTH?

achorladey

Jessicha: Who are the " WE" that's looking forward to a new earth as well? Christians.

Achorladey: Fine answer to your own QUESTION.

If they are Christians , and they will be on earth , does that not exclude them from Royal priesthood ?

rottennaija:
Good. You have answered one. Answer these.

2. Did the paragraph mention that Paul's warning was to the other sheep?
3. Do you see anywhere in the article or anywhere in watchtower publications where it is said that the other sheep gathered in the first-century?
4. The paragraph mentioned that the heavenly calling began after Jesus death and resurrection. Other watchtower articles mention 33 CE. So, When did the calling of the other sheep begins?

Just as you showcased your ignorance the other time, asking sons of anointed . we are discussing " New Covenant " and the promise to be Kings and Priest .

Explain to me how those who are not part of the royal priesthood are members of new covenant for Kings ?

rottennaija:
2 Kings 11:1 When Athaliah, the mother of King Ahaziah of Judah, learned that her son was dead, she set out to destroy the rest of the royal family.


So we have 144000 that are kings. I asked who are the kingdom, your said kings can also refer to kingdom, quoting 1 Ki 11:1 where your reference means royal line (children of the kings who succeed hims after death).

Now, I am asking you, who are the children of these 144000 kings? Their royal line or kingdom?

You should be sensible to understand that was quoted to back the point that serving in the position of a King can be called Kingdom.

rottennaija:

You have not answered any of the questions. You keep running from pillar to post.

1. So anointed can partake of the emblem unworthily?
2. Did the paragraph mention that Paul's warning was to the other sheep?
3. Do you see anywhere in the article or anywhere in watchtower publications where it is said that the other sheep gathered in the first-century?

Annointed can partake unworthily . Jesus already make mention of other sheep, they may be there or not. So " Seems " was used .

rottennaija:
So we have kings that refers to kingdom. Who are the seed of the kingdom or royal seed?

You can read it again if you are shocked

The king [kingdom ] sons .

rottennaija:
So anointed can partake of the emblem unworthily?
Did the paragraph mention that Paul's warning was to the other sheep?
Do you see anywhere in the article or anywhere in watchtower publications where it is said that the other sheep gathered in the first-century?

John 3:8 is there for you. If someone say " seems " he has a strong opinion but since this Is a decision by God, admitted his knowledge may be limited in some aspect out of respect for him.

rottennaija:
From the link you sent, here are some point.

Those who partake of the emblems at the Memorial should carefully consider the warning found at 1 Corinthians 11:27-29. (Read.) What point is the apostle Paul here making? An anointed Christian would partake unworthily if he did not maintain a good relationship with Jehovah. (Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-29)

So anointed can partake of the emblem unworthily?
Did the paragraph mention that Paul's warning was to the other sheep?

Jehovah began choosing anointed ones after Jesus’ death and resurrection, and it seems that all in the first-century Christian congregation were anointed. From the first century until the beginning of the last days, the vast majority of those who claimed to follow Christ were false Christians; Jesus likened them to “weeds.” Even so, Jehovah continued to anoint some faithful ones throughout that time, and they proved to be like the “wheat” Jesus described.

Second they say it seems that all in the first-century were anointed. That throughout that period, Jehovah was also choosing anointed. Do you see anywhere in the article or anywhere in watchtower publications where it is said that the other sheep gathered in the first-century?

If there is any clear statement, I'll like us all to see it.

The point Is made " Seems " . which was in line with the opinion I also stated Earlier. Based on John 3:8

rottennaija:
Do the math, I have not seen any math. I'm waiting for you to relate them mathematically

It would do u much good, to digest the post and stop show casing ignorance

rottennaija:
Finally there is a yes. As for the bolded, I know your position on it, one you have made clear repeatedly. But you can still continue to emphasize it, for reference purposes.

So, yes, the quoted scriptures apply to a particular audience at a particular time, whether today or 2000 years ago. You said yes. That's fine. For reference purposes, the scriptures are quoted below again.

1 Pe 2:9,
. 9 But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,+ a people for special possession,+ that you should declare abroad the excellencies”*+ of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.+

Re 1:5,6
and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

Re 5:9,10
And they sing a new song,+ saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God+ out of every tribe and tongue* and people and nation,+ 10 and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”



Okay, I'll like to know. With special reference to Re 1:5,6 and Re 5:9,10.
Is being a Kingdom the same as being King?
If not, who are the kingdom and who are the kings?

Kingdom can refer to a king ( 2King 11:1 for reference " and destroyeth all the seed of the kingdom; " meaning seed of the King

Janosky:
Baba Twister , I hail you wella.

Pls situate my post in the context of my discus with Ubenedictus rather than come here and now twist it.
That post was in respect of the insertion of comma johanneum into 1John5:7.
Pope Leo X endorsed Erasmus work where in he made that dubious insertion into the Bible.
My point was that would Erasmus ever dare to reject adding that fake insertion, since he already knew the fate of individuals dissenting against the Pope?

If it wasn't the plot of the church to place that fake stuff in the Bible, why was the church against any dissent to the comma Johanneum ,300 years later even though it was already proved to be fake?

Pls your claim dey weak

This guys have been exposed with this thread on this new covevant of a thing. All that's left is turning left and right., so don't mind them .

achorladey:
Did I see you type THINK! That's the job of the GOVERNING BODY every other member is to PARROT the THINKING of the GOVERNING BODY.

In Jehovah's organization it is NOT necessary to spend a lot of time and ENERGY in RESEARCH, for there are brothers in the organization who are ASSIGNED to do that very THING. Watchtower June 1 1967.



Avoid questioning the COUNSEL provided by GOD'S VISIBLE ORGANIZATION. Some who point out that the ORGANIZATION has had to make some ADJUSTMENTS before, so they argue: " This shows that we have to make up OUR OWN mind on what to BELIEVE" This is INDEPENDENT THINKING. Why is it so DANGEROUS?"
watchtower 1983 Jan 15 p. 22



Who are this FOREMOST brothers you bet most of them are from THE office of the WRITING and SERVICE committee. GB and the HELPERS combination.

We will keep trying to restrain ourselves from bad languages nothing is gained when one resort to that level.

Says a fellow who said those in the new covenant are made a Royal priesthood.

Now explain how with your thinking , Those whom are not Royal priesthood on the new Earth are in the new covenant ?


This is gonna be interesting.