₦airaland Forum

Emusan:
Silly empty skull...

Read my post again

Let's see what might means

Is he yet to become first born from the dead ?

Emusan:
If not because you're a lying liar and don't have single iota of shame

You claimed "Hahahaha they said he exist as God the son before creation,..."

Who is identified as the second person of Trinity ? God the son! Don't be an idiot

Yet from your links no where was the phrase "He exists as GOD THE SON" appear but you still have audacity to say someone act stupid.

Continue in your delusions

Wikipedia



In Trinitarianism this "Logos" is also called God the Son OR the second person of the Trinity. Theologian Bernard Ramm noted that "It has been standard teaching in historic Christology that the Logos, the Son, existed before the incarnation. That the Son so existed before the incarnation has been called the pre-existence of Christ."[3



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existence_of_Christ

Emusan:
Empty skull read my post again!

You just described yourself

Is he yet to become firstborn from the dead ?

Emusan:
The most pathetic thing about you people is lack of comprehension by ignoring the key point in a statement.

Lemme come down to a Nursery school level because that's where you people belong.

1. Christ is the firstborn of all creations to you this means Christ is first

2. This means Christ has claimed this position long time ago.

3. Now, the scripture says, "so that he MIGHT BECOME the one who is FIRST in all things;" NWT

4. From here we can deduce that Christ is not the first ^{in ALL things yet} if not there is no need "HE MIGHT BECOME...FIRST" again.

Lack of scriptural understanding everywhere!

Have help you fix your silly conclusion at 4.

That doesn't change the fact he is already firstborn from the dead and firstborn of creation.

Firstborn of the dead experience death .

Firstborn of creation was also a created being. In this case , the first to be created! Rev 3:14

Emusan:
Shallow empty skull...

The point isn't because He is first in ALL THINGS but "BECOMING THE FIRST again", after you have claimed He is the first already...

It's read "so He MIGHT BECOME the one WHO IS FIRST in all things"

Why must he be the one to BECOME FIRST in all things if he was already the first?



Creations were created not born.

Like I said, of you are asked that question, your BORN will suddenly change to FIRSTCREATED.

Hypocrite!

You are silly , it mentions that he is firstborn already in some areas . Creation and the dead

Are you denying he is firstborn from the dead already. ? Or is he might become ? ...

Emusan:
Now can you see the reason why I said you people lack simple comprehension?

This is your claim "Hahahaha they said he exist as God the son before creation,..."

Does this validate your claim?

SMH

I know you will act stupid, that's why I added that Wikipedia quote that mentions what is meant by second person of Trinity, God the son

Emusan:
Provide the proof for where they say He exists as God the Son before creation.

From got question. A trinitarian website
, " His pre-existence means that, before He became a man and walked upon the earth, He was already in existence as the second Person of the triune God. "
https://www.gotquestions.org/amp/pre-existence-Jesus.html


Wikipedia

In Trinitarianism this "Logos" is also called God the Son or the second person of the Trinity. Theologian Bernard Ramm noted that "It has been standard teaching in historic Christology that the Logos, the Son, existed before the incarnation. That the Son so existed before the incarnation has been called the pre-existence of Christ."[3
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existence_of_Christ

achorladey:
Oga Jozzy4, Doctor of "mentally diseased"and the latest diagnosis reading CHILDISH. It's your diagnosis anyway.

That aside, I want to believe you are with your glasses while reading the post you responded to, if my believe is wrong you might want to do so and read the post again.


Jozzy4: I ask again: Is Paul in Jesus kingdom with all those wahala he highlight while replying the super fine apostles in Corinth

Achorladey: Colossians 1:13 He DELIVERED us from the power of darkness and TRANSFERRED us to the KINGDOM of the SON he loves, 

The wahala PAUL suffered, he suffered has MINISTER OF WHO? Power of DARKNESS? Hahahahahaha.

He said he groan in pain as he await the HOPE.

Get sense !

rottennaija:
Maybe you didn't understand why I asked the question about something bad happening in Christ Kingdom. I asked because in your mind, I don't think of the church or the Christian Congregation as the kingdom of Christ, which it the point Achorladey is trying to help you see.

Its the reason I asked of your spiritual paradise. Probably you may not know that it's the same idea of spiritual paradise that we have Christ kingdom over his church, even while they are in earth. Christ followers, the church or Christian Congregation is already his kingdom, even while he has not returned.

You can't use the idea of spiritual Paradise , I said earlier spiritual paradise is a derivation from the original . not the real one, but a condition which I defined .

Just as spiritual death does not mean real death

achorladey:
The only thing I need is as stated by you above


PAUL ISN'T SPEAKING OF PRESENT.

Hahahahahahaha!


Jozzy4: Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the first fruits namely the spirit, yes,we ourselves groan withing ourselvesimagine o, groaning in pain .. Jesus kingdom indeed, mentally diseased one shey u see? while we are earnestly WAITING for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom . for we are saved in this hope ... But if we hope for what we do not see, WE KEEP eargerly waiting for it with endurance Romans 8:23-25

Achorladey: Romans 8: 37 On the contrary, in all THESE THINGS we are coming off COMPLETELY VICTORIOUS through the one WHO LOVED US.


Is this one too ISN'T PRESENTLY? Hahahahahaha!

You don't make any sense . Good you now know the meaning of HOPE

Image123:
Luk 12:13  And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. 
Luk 12:14  And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?

What has this text got to do with what we are saying?
You are jumping from pillar to post and changing the goal posts already just on my words and yours. i can only imagine and shiver at what you would do with the Word.

TATIME: WE KNOW HOW TO ANSWER EACH PERSON whether visible or faceless social media inquisitors like you! wink.
TATIME: meet my JW families in your neighbourhood if you care to know!
TATIME: you're not the type that i do chat with FACELESSLY going by your statement 'you don't care to know somethings'(i don't know when i made this statement in quote but no problem) we're in search for those who CARES TO KNOW ALL THINGS regarding sacred services!
TATIME: Your manner of approach determines(Then you quote where Jesus did not answer a word to back up your acts.)
TATIME: The one asking can SEE Jesus FACE TO FACE

So he was seeing Jesus face to face that is why Jesus did not answer him, but you quoted it so as not to answer me. WOW. Maybe if he was on phone, Jesus may have answered him or what? What manner of approach do you need to answer my question? Grovelling? If answers are ready, do i have to beg for it or what exactly?

Please what exactly is your question ?

rottennaija:
Do Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy spiritual paradise?

Yes

Emusan:
If not because you lack scriptural understanding, you'll have known that Apostle Paul was talking about when the Word became part of creation...that's why he round it up by saying "that in ALL THINGS he(Jesus) might have the preeminence"

The question we need to ask is, if Jesus is actually the first created being, why must Jesus still be in ALL THINGS have the preeminence?

But this can only be true if Jesus who was not created but the creator entered His own creation to take the first position over everything He created.

Mr, Jesus is firstborn of all creation means he is the beginning of the creations of God.

Get sense nah ( Rev 3:14)

Barristter07:
Firstborn is a child to his Father . one exist before the other.
If your postulation holds true;
Firstborn of Creation, How is he the one born first among all Creations ?

Because if his Father - Firstborn started on earth, he couldn't be the firstborn of all creation .

Lol, abi

Guy went to quote becoming firstborn in ALL things, as of all those things happen at the same time .

Emusan:
The incarnation of the Word begins to have a Father immediately He became part of creation.

in short the trinity doesn't exist !

Emusan:
The incarnation of the Word begins to have a Father immediately He became part of creation.

Liar , so it was when he came on earth that he started having father .

Heb chapter 1 called Him Gods firstborn heb 1:6

Emusan:
I repeat you lack scriptural understanding and even lack how words are structured.

Lemme use your own translation maybe your dull skull can grab it this time.

"so that he might become the one who is first in all things;"

Why must He be the ONE to become FIRST IN ALL THINGS if He was already THE FIRST CREATED

That's the question you should rap inside your skull

Emusan, master of low comprehension . in ALL things dey there nah , All things , take for example his been firstborn from the dead , that happens years after creation has been done . All things imply many other things to happen

Does it change his been firstborn of all creation ?

Barister ask una: How was he born ?

He isn't a son, yet called Gods firstborn ( Heb 1)

Only if you understand what you're talking about.

I know if I ask you to explain it now, your firstborn will suddenly change to FIRSTCREATED

How was he BORN ? Explain . we know he was Gods firstborn before coming to earth . making him a son

Emusan:
No angel in heaven, nonsense!

You mean the angel can't say "for this reason the Holy thing to be born is already Son of God"

Mr, Demons and angel already knows he is son of God. They are all sons of the Father . he was just the firstborn

Is Jesus the word of God?
Does the word become flesh?

Show me where it was written that the Son became flesh?

Word is a son, God first born .

If you mean a ,b ,c coming out of Gods mouth, your case is a pathetic one

asalimpo:
The Son and the Father are of the same kind-diety. But the Son is lower in rank to the Father. Just like in a marraige,the wife is equal to the husband but lower in rank. The subjugation is necessary to achieve unity.
phil2v6: Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God .

You forgot that place said HaaVE this same MIND in you

So that means its proper for a Christian to see themselves as equal to God ?

Emusan:
They also said Jesus exists before creation...

Why Jesus

Hahahaha they said he exist as God the son before creation, only given the name Jesus on earth . Stop lying

Why called God the son ?

rottennaija:
In response to your post above, I want to ask you. What do you mean by spiritual paradise?

Let me illustrate :

S is dead .. Can mean two things

A) S is a sinner thus spiritually dead,

B) S is truly dead physically

While both are slightly different , one was derived from the other .

Spiritual paradise is derived from the true Paradise condition that Adam and Eve lived. Where love and peace exist , no hunger or thirst

A condition where spiritual food is abundant and surrounded by spiritual people is likened to spiritual paradise

rottennaija:
Generally, we would want to say no. But was it hi will fr Jesus to suffer and a painful die? Was Jesus trial part of God's will? His desire to subject all things to futility on the basis of hope part of his will? (Ro 8:20) how about Job who suffered a painful trial and sickness? Was it bad? Wasn't it God's will for that to happen?

Creation has been subjected to pains, suffering, sickness and death for ages. Whose will was it? Satan? Isn't it bad that people have to suffer and die for what is Adamic sin which they had no choice?

Okay, wasn't it a bad thing that women and defenseless children be killed during wars under God's command? Wasn't that also his will?

You got it all wrong, Yes Creation was subjected to futility, but that wasn't God's plan - Genesis 1:28 , they are to live forever on earth in peace .

Everything you highlighted including Jesus death came after man make a wrong choice and the God of justice sentence him to death .

Had it been Man didn't commit sin, Creation won't be subjected to futility and groaning it experienced .

His Love was evidenced again that while Man make the wrong choice and got sentenced, he still subject it to futility ON the basis of Hope ( Gen 3:15)

So, your answer can be yes and can also be no. But for your sake, I will answer no. Now, let me ask my question: do you mean that in the kingdom of Christ, nothing bad or trials should happen?

Every bad thing would be removed, even the LAST enemy Death !

For it to be called " last enemy " , shows every other enemy would have been done away with

achorladey:
Oga Jozzy4 Doctor of "mentally diseased" your latest diagnosis show that you are NOW speaking with a TODDLER. Hahahahahahah therefore the need to grow up. Eh Eh.

Paul was alive and kicking right here on EARTH when he stated this......

Moreover, he raised us up together and SEATED us TOGETHER in the heavenly places in union with CHRIST JESUS.

So was PAUL in HEAVEN before he stated this?

Paul isn't speaking of present . earth is not heaven, The text says Heaven!

" Not only that , but we ourselves also who have the first fruits namely the spirit, yes,we ourselves groan withing ourselves [imagine o, groaning in pain .. Jesus kingdom indeed , mentally diseased one shey u see ? ] while we are earnestly WAITING for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom . for we are saved in this hope ; ... But if we hope for what we do not see, WE KEEP eargerly waiting for it with endurance " " Romans 8:23-25

Mentally diseased one, Paul ask you : " for when a man sees a thing, does he HOPE for it ? " ?

Will he hope if he is already in that kingdom, I hope your senses would wake up now that its a future hope rightly as the text says in HEAVEN

achorladey:
Jozzy4:Are you sure you are okay? I doubt

Achorladey: You are A doctor of "MENTALLY DISEASED" I don't think you will want to be caught asking a MENTALLY DISEASED PATIENT the question above. Hahahahaha.

.......and the "I doubt" shows either......Are you tired of YOUR JOB? Or the JOB is tired of you? Hahahahahahaha Doctor of "mentally diseased".



Jozzy4: He was in that kingdom of Jesus yet suffering from lack of food, dangers in the sea, beating black and blue by Jews, days of sleepless night. Thorn in the flesh.


Achorladey: And you Oga Jozzy4, the doctor of "mentally diseased" don't know

This MADMAN PAUL not only knows that HE has already being TRANSFERRED INTO THE KINGDOM OF THE SON OF HIS LOVE he is EQUALLY MAD for all the WORK about THIS KINGDOM he is TRANSFERRED to.


2 Corinthians 11: 23.........Are they MINISTERS of (JESUS) Christ? I reply like a MADMAN, I am more OUTSTANDINGLY ONE: I have done MORE WORK...........

do well to read what follows.........

Are you a MINISTER OF JESUS CHRIST? Your MINISTRY and MINISTERIAL DUTIES is it for the KINGDOM OF THE SON OF HIS LOVE or for the KINGDOM of POWER OF DARKNESS.

I ask a question at bold, instead of you to address it , you are trying to compare your mentally diseased state to Paul, Paul isn't Mad, he clarifies " Let No one think am unreasonable " . 2 Cor 11:16 , You have clearly stepped that boundary.

But if you are so childish to think he is, then Paul says " What I now say is , NOT as following the Lords example, but as an unreasonable person would, with boastful self confidence " 2 Cor 11:17

So Mr he isn't Mad, what he did was not to follow the Lord example so as to boast

I ask again: Is Paul in Jesus kingdom with all those wahala he highlight while replying the super fine apostles in Corinth ?

achorladey:
Jozzy4: Paul is in a world ruled by power of darkness . that's why an angel of Satan can slap him

Achorladey: and Paul said ...........He DELIVERED us from the POWER of DARKNESS and TRANSFERRED us to the KINGDOM of the Son he loves, 

Paul forgot he was still in this world before he was INSPIRED to PENDOWN that ACCOUNT? Hahahahahaha!

Jozzy4: Only a mentally diseased would say angels of Satan would flourish and torture people in Jesus kingdom

Achorladey: Oga Jozzy4, Doctor of "mentally diseased" what was PAUL told WAS ENOUGH for the "THORN IN THE FLESH"?

He was in that kingdom of Jesus yet suffering from lack of food, dangers in the sea, beating black and blue by Jews, days of sleepless night. Thorn in the flesh

Are you sure you are okay ? I doubt

Jozzy4:
Earth is not heavenly PLACES or else Christ would be on earth presently
since the scripture says he is seated In the heavenly places at Gods right hand

The Greek word simply means HEAVEN .

2032. epouranios ►
Strong's Concordance
epouranios: of heaven
Original Word: ἐπουράνιος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: epouranios
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-oo-ran'-ee-os)
Definition: of heaven
Usage: heavenly, celestial, in the heavenly sphere, the sphere of spiritual activities; met: divine, spiritual.

cc: achorladey . now you need to grow up

Is paul in heaven ?

achorladey:
Oga Jozzy4, Doctor of "MENTALLY DISEASED", Is the EARTH an heavenly BODY?

Did the EARTH create ADAM?

The Greek word refer to heaven . not planets
Grow up

achorladey:
Hahahahahaha Psychiatrist Jozzy4 doctor of those that are MENTALLY DISEASED........

Is Paul delivered from POWER of DARKNESS and TRANSFERRED to the KINGDOM of the SON he LOVES?

Does power of DARKNESS RULE OVER PAUL?

What is said to be ENOUGH for those THORN in the FLESH? While PAUL was STILL alive and KICKING on this EARTH?

Hope for what we do not see, ... Do u heard Paul made this statement ?

Paul is in a world ruled by power of darkness . that's why an angel of Satan can slap him

Only a mentally diseased would say angels of Satan would flourish and torture people in Jesus kingdom

achorladey:
It's now Achorladey philosophy Hahahahahahah, you are tired of "mentally diseased".

Is earth an heavenly body? The question remain the same or you think I will change it?

Earth is not heavenly PLACES or else Christ would be on earth presently
since the scripture says he is seated In the heavenly places at Gods right hand

The Greek word simply means HEAVEN .

2032. epouranios ►
Strong's Concordance
epouranios: of heaven
Original Word: ἐπουράνιος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: epouranios
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-oo-ran'-ee-os)
Definition: of heaven
Usage: heavenly, celestial, in the heavenly sphere, the sphere of spiritual activities; met: divine, spiritual.

Emusan:
I have also told you that what they mean is that the identity of what the Son is before being part of creation.

Are you saying you haven't hard Trinitarians saying Jesus is the Word of God?

They also say God the son exist before creation , didn't they ?

Why God the Son ?

Emusan:
Read my reply to your brother above, I have addressed that!

Nope , answer me.

Trinitarians maintain Jesus exist as God the son before his birth

Why is he a Son by identity ?

Emusan:
One funny thing about discussing with JWs is their outrightly lie and lack of scriptural understanding they always want to rub on your face.

"The pronouncement came as a result of Mary wondering" according to your lie yet Vs 32 clearly stated that "He shall be great, and shall be CALLED THE SON OF THE HIGHEST"

Even your NWT says "...And for that reason..." for what reason? Mary's wondering or because what God will do?

You didn't make any point different from what he said nah, The Angel only show that God is his Father .

Has God always been his Father or just on earth ?