₦airaland Forum

Anas09:
There are mediums everywhere. Oyibo gives them fanciful names. Soothsayers are Mesiums, witches are mediums, fortune tellers are mediums. Witches are mediums. Anyone who communicates with the dead for the purpose of getting info for the living is a medium.

You seem to thing that only the group in a Séance with one who calls the spirit of the dead is only a medium.

Mediumship is Necromancing, consulting the spirit of the dead to get info. Where do u think native doctors and soothsayers get their info from?
Aren't ancestors spirits of the dead?

Dont get confused dear. They are all the same, from the same source, you dont believe it doesn't change it.

I recommended a book to you, but you read it with biase.

The guy was a medium long before he became a Christian. He practiced mediunship for years believing the beings to come from God exactly as you do now.

If you remember, a fellow medium was the one who revealed to him that the beings they connect with are demons. The medium laughed at Gasson's ignorance.
as he went on praising the godly virtues of the being (Just like you are doing now), then that medium colleague laughed at his Naivity, then told him that the source was from satan.

It wasnt a Chriatian who told him that, it was a fellow Medium.
It was that information that set him off. All he had ever known was mediumship, nothing esle. It was shocking for him to hear that all along he was communicating with demons.

He still doubted the medium who told him that. He went from Church to Church trying to feel the difference, until he walked into one Church one evening. The Pastor if that then took him through the scriptures.

Do you remeber him writing that the demon who always acted like Jesus to him siezed him the last time he went on a trance? The demon knew that Gasson was getting out of it's grip, he almost killed him.

Why would a good being want to kill an agent who had served him faithfully for years?

Guy. You are soooo decieved.

My guy I know what am saying, there are mediums and there are psychics, even though all mediums are psychics not all psychics are mediums. Soothsayers, fortune tellers are psychics not necessarily mediums.
About the author, I think he calls them demons because there teachings contradict most of what is in the Bible, because as you can also see, in chapter 13 of his book, he called them demons using the Bible to prove his point.
It seems you haven't read much about mediumship (Correct me if am wrong.)
You see like I said before, there entities are nothing but human spirits that were also once inhabitants of earth, they're no special calibre of spirits. In the light of that, since not all human can be called good, there are evil men also and when the evil once die, they continue there evil ways on the other side because death doesn't change anything in human, it is only a door way to another dimension.
These underdeveloped human spirits can also influence and talk through a medium and as we all know, nothing good can come out in this kind of unholy association. This is precisely the reason why mediums are advised and MUST be pure in emotion, thought, words and action so that only the good spirit of the same pure personality can approach and influence them.
If you study mediumship very well, you will come to know that even mediums are protected from the other side, in every seance, we've the control spirit who is in charge of who will be allowed to influence the medium, we also have the medium guide that protects the medium and lay off the evil spirits.
So in a way, you can say "demons" can influence mediums also, not all the spirits are good spirits on the other side, but it is important to note that these so called demons are simply underdeveloped human spirits that have continued there evil propensities on the other side.
Have read stories of people that have been harmed by improper handle of the Ouija board. Mediumship is not something that can be played with any how, if one feels his way of live is not that on the positive side, it is advice to stay off it to prevent being possessed by there evil HUMAN spirits.
So it is possible that the author is actually in touch with one of these evil spirits impersonating as Jesus which is way he was later attacked by the spirit.

Anas09:
I did not say the ex-Muslim asked him about Mediumship, I said he asked a similar question. That one had to do with Dark Arts or black magic, which also uses these beings. Ali Sina warned him to stay away from that.

You mean i shd eliminate the idea that these beings are demons? What then will there be? In the Spirit realm, there are either Angels or demons, no neutrals. If i agree they are not demons, what then do i call them?

No, am not asking for the authority on which they preaxh love. Am asking for a reason for which they preach unconditional love.
This is becos, as i said before, Love comes with sacrifice and giving. Giving something to some one who do not deaerve it and who didnt even ask for it, but give anyways, as examplified by Christ given His love and sacrificing his life for humanity.

Now, i ask again, what has these beings done.for humanity to express their love. Telling me i love you umconditionally without any tanginle thing to give to me, is not enough.

You cant live without giving.

What have they given?

Lol. Christ died, but never died for our sins, is this the mesaage from these beings? because if you are talking about the same NDE that i have also seen and am still seeing, the Jesus they all talk about is the one who died and took away out sins, and thats the reason they themselves believes and become Christians.

Lol @sowing and expecting Jesus to reap. Your imformation as to who Jesus is, is limited.

Do you know what these words means redemption, atonement, Ransome, propitiating? That is what Christ did for mankind. He did not reap our sins. He payed a randsome for our lives and redeemed us from the power of death.

Justice does not come in here at all. Have you ever heard the Word "Justification?". Justification doesnt deny your crime. It doesnt pretend or cover what you did. It accepts it, but says to you " GO".

BEFORE THE LAW, YOU ARE GUILTY, but go. Why? Because, someone more powerful and more capable stepped in and took the blame and paid the debt (Ransome). So, go, but sin no more

This is how we actually know if those beings are good or evil.
If they preach God's unconditional love which was only expressed by God, only through the sacrificial death of His son, how can the same beings deny the death of Christ, if they are indeed for God.

In other words those beings deny Christ. And, yet preach the umconditional love of God.


Guy, you have been deceived.

My friend mediumship is not dark art or black magic, I also stay away from those and will not advice anybody to go into it.
Part of these entities mission is to prove the immortality of men on earth, so these spirits are really not angels or demons but people that were once inhabitants of this earth that as come to tell us that they still live on after there death.
You asked for the reason they preach love, well since they were once inhabitants of this earth, when they got to the other side, they find out that must of the beliefs they hold sacred were not really important and that what really matters there is how you live your life, so they come back to preach love for us to focus more on what is important which is love and to teach us to be ready to take full responsibility PERSONALY for our actions that are not in harmony with love.
I don't understand you o, is love expressed only by sacrificing one's life? and since there entities are already "dead" do you want them to kill themselves again? You ought to note that billions of people have died and the very fact that there few chose to come back and educate us is an act of love to me, don't you think? if you ask me, I will say they've given there time, experience, knowledge and mistakes and urge us not to fall in the same pit. If you're still not satisfied, what do you really want them to do? I mean what do you want them to sacrifice to show there love?
Have read hundreds of NDEs including atheists NDE, while most claim to saw Jesus, none says he preach salvation by his death, on less you read so called NDE by Christians like Sister Linda. Also, not all people that experienced NDE become a Christian, in fact must of them dissociate themselves from organised religion.
My friend you're just playing with words here, whether you say Jesus reap or pay for your sin is the same thing, the fact still remains that your were totally absolved of all responsibility to your sin. Nobody can pay any ransome for another man's transgressions, whatever YOU sow, YOU will reap.
You said: BEFORE THE LAW YOU'RE GUILTY BUT GO, I say go where? If the law finds your guilty you must suffer the consequences of breaking the law, there is no question of someone stepping in, the law of cause and effect can not be suspended because someone powerful stepped in for you.
It is precisely this kind of teachings that give people the confidence that they can continue to sin, Jesus grace is enough to step in for them. Some don't even try to improve themselves and eliminate bad behavior because in the long run, they believe someone will step in from them experiencing the effect of there mistakes. But on the other hand, if people come to the full realization that EVERY seed they plant with there thought, words or action they will surely taste of the fruit they will be more cautious.
Again, must love always be expressed by sacrificing your life?
Guy, I don't think am deceived.

Anas09:
I did not say the ex-Muslim asked him about Mediumship, I said he asked a similar question. That one had to do with Dark Arts or black magic, which also uses these beings. Ali Sina warned him to stay away from that.

You mean i shd eliminate the idea that these beings are demons? What then will there be? In the Spirit realm, there are either Angels or demons, no neutrals. If i agree they are not demons, what then do i call them?

No, am not asking for the authority on which they preaxh love. Am asking for a reason for which they preach unconditional love.
This is becos, as i said before, Love comes with sacrifice and giving. Giving something to some one who do not deaerve it and who didnt even ask for it, but give anyways, as examplified by Christ given His love and sacrificing his life for humanity.

Now, i ask again, what has these beings done.for humanity to express their love. Telling me i love you umconditionally without any tanginle thing to give to me, is not enough.

You cant live without giving.

What have they given?

Lol. Christ died, but never died for our sins, is this the mesaage from these beings? because if you are talking about the same NDE that i have also seen and am still seeing, the Jesus they all talk about is the one who died and took away out sins, and thats the reason they themselves believes and become Christians.

Lol @sowing and expecting Jesus to reap. Your imformation as to who Jesus is, is limited.

Do you know what these words means redemption, atonement, Ransome, propitiating? That is what Christ did for mankind. He did not reap our sins. He payed a randsome for our lives and redeemed us from the power of death.

Justice does not come in here at all. Have you ever heard the Word "Justification?". Justification doesnt deny your crime. It doesnt pretend or cover what you did. It accepts it, but says to you " GO".

BEFORE THE LAW, YOU ARE GUILTY, but go. Why? Because, someone more powerful and more capable stepped in and took the blame and paid the debt (Ransome). So, go, but sin no more

This is how we actually know if those beings are good or evil.
If they preach God's unconditional love which was only expressed by God, only through the sacrificial death of His son, how can the same beings deny the death of Christ, if they are indeed for God.

In other words those beings deny Christ. And, yet preach the umconditional love of God.


Guy, you have been deceived.

I promise to rely this as soon as I charge my battery.

Blackfire:
whatever u do stay away from medium. . .

I remember the story of Saul in the bible.
yes they tell u things exactly, but u have invited legions of fallen angels to your life.

my dad died 2 days ago , exactly on my birthday... someone ask me to go to medium to know who killed him... I laughed knowing the demonic torture that will follow.

my point is this ... stay away from medium..

Thanks for you concern, I will keep that in mind and for the record, I don't belief in fallen angels.
One thing interest me in your post, you said your friend asked you to visit a medium, please are you are Nigerian? and those that mean there are mediums in Nigeria? would really like to know.

Anas09:
Wow, So, one can believe in Jehovah and Jesus outside of the Bible? Islam have it's own version of Jesus but that is not the Jesus Ali sina believes in. As much as i know, Ali Sina at first didnt believe in the Bible, then he believed.

This is one of his articles.

Dear Friends,
For years I spent many hours until late at night writing articles and responding to your questions about Islam. I did this out of love for you and love for humanity. I asked nothing in exchange. Many of you wrote to say you owe your freedom to me. That is my reward and I ask for nothing more.
Now, very evil forces are threatening my livelihood. While there is no point in going into details I am a victim of malicious machinations which has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with greed and wickedness.
The good news is that now I trust in God and have faith that He will deliver me from all evil. I put all my affairs in His hand and have complete faith in His assistance. I prayed for many of you when you wrote to me confiding in me your personal woes. I felt your pain and pleaded God for your deliverance. Now I need your prayers. God promises, “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.” Please pray to our heavenly Father that he either takes me Home or delivers me from my enemies. Spirit is strong but flesh is weak. I feel weak, violated, abused and helpless.
I don’t know what God has in store for me. Why He puts me under this much tribulation? What is He trying to teach me that I don’t get? I am sure He knows I am a human and can take it only so much.
This is serious. But prayers work. They are very powerful. I need some moments of relief. For some reason God is keeping me in this world when I yearn to go. While here I don’t need much comfort, but I also don’t want too much tribulations. Please ask Him to stop my tribulations and the wicked souls that harm me so they can amass wealth at my expense that will not serve them in this world nor in the next. I feel helpless, powerless and weak. Only God can deliver me and I beg you to pray for me.
May God bless you all and remove your pains and sufferings.

Ali Sina

Does that sound like a non Christian?

Ali Sina is a Christian sir.

Did he write that? is he troubled? I feel for him if he really write that, I went through his site I didn't see that maybe you will be kind enough to provide a link.
Ali sina refers to himself as a Christian because he followed Christ teaching of love, he is not a Christian in the same way you are.
I would like to ask You, did he belief in Christ death as atonement for our sins? did he preach salvation by Jesus alone? did he belief in EVERYTHING in the Bible? remember he called the Bible a gold mine meaning it contains useful as wall as useless things just like a gold mine.

Joeblis:
I'm passing through the most difficult moments of my life and I feel that any decision I make at this period is crucial and will eventually shape the rest of my life.

Many questions have been running through my mind many of which I haven't gotten answers to, I have gone through countless research on science and philosophy looking for answers still haven't found any, this quest have expanded my view and changed my mindset totally.

Religion doesn't appeal to me anymore but I still believe in God wholeheartedly or I'm I confused?....I can't figure I have been having sleepless nights.

The atmosphere of Christianity in Nigeria is not encouraging and I need to pull out for the sake of my mind. there are many things on my mind I'd like to write but I hate length post. the question is can I be deist and still have affiliations with Christianity? is there any other way to seek God apart from organized religion? am I being Shortsighted? I'm just confused. I'm really open minded and ready to consider any premise that makes sense to me.

I'm about rounding up my first degree after which I'm considering going for a theology degree, I know for sure there is something beyond this earth humans can't comprehend of which I won't let humans with the same thinking capability as me help me figure. I want to seek God my own way. please mature peeps in the house should help me.

Why worry about being religious? I will advise you to read about near death experiences near-death.com

Continues

Then came the so-called trumpet
phenomena that I have read so much
about. Reading about it doesn’t come
close to experiencing it up close. The
trumpet levitated to about four feet or
head height of the sitters. Then it began
to fly around the room at an incredible
speed. It is hard to imagine how anyone
could do what the trumpet was doing in
broad daylight let alone in pitch-black
darkness.
It is hard to explain. If you can imagine
swinging the trumpet towards someone at
the speed of a fast bowler and then
stopping it on the end of someone’s nose,
touching them but without hurting them.
Then try and touch their face four or five
times in the space of one or two seconds,
and then try and do it in the dark
without hurting anyone and you might
get an idea of what was happening.
William then came back on and spoke
some more and the sitters asked more
questions.
After what seemed like an hour William
brought the proceedings to an end, he bid
us goodbye and the now familiar whoosh
ensued. Suddenly there was a loud
thump. It sounded like a large crate had
been dropped on the floor in front of us.
The lights were switched on and there in
front of us seven or eight feet from the
curtain, was David strapped in the chair
and looking as if he had just woken up
from a deep sleep.
It would have taken at least two strong
people to move him that distance and
drop him in the centre of the room. Then
we noticed David’s cardigan was on back
to front with the plastic fasteners still in
place’ How David could have get the
cardigan off while strapped into the chair
is difficult to fathom.
Richard, the volunteer was then asked to
cut the fasteners but when he put his
hand in his pockets the cutters were
missing. He then realised they were now
in his back pocket which they were not
when the lights went out.
It had been a fascinating experience and
while the physical phenomena had been
amazing, for me the best evidence that
something non-physical was happening
was T asking a question in Russian and
getting a reply in Russian!
Source whitecrowbooks.com/features/page/an_evening_with_modern_day_physical_medium_david_thompson

Continues
Timothy introduced spirits to the sitters and where ever the sitter was seated that is where the voices went. T had asked Chris during the pre-séance talk whether entities ever communicated in a foreign language. Chris had said that it sometimes happens and that they had recently had words written in Swedish from a communicator. During the séance T got her answer. Timothy said there was a lady in the room who spoke a foreign language and would she make herself known. T was the only one to respond. Timothy asked her if her grandfather was in spirit. He explained that a spirit who was her grandfather was there but finding it difficult to communicate adding it was his first attempt in coming through. Timothy suggested T speak to him to give him encouragement She did this by greeting him. Timothy interjected telling her to speak in her native language. T did as instructed and asked a question in Russian, and right in front of where she was sitting I heard a reply in Russian. It was faint, and only a few words but I heard the voice speak Russian, and the voice answered her question. I was very happy for her and for the room. For me this was compelling evidence. Timothy asked Chris to turn on the music and we sang. Then I saw the luminous trumpet and the cardboard square levitate and move to the middle of the room. Suddenly the square rose to around two feet off the ground and started moving round the room as if someone was carrying it. Timothy asked us to look at his fingers on the square and sure enough four child-like fingers wiggled in the glow of the luminous light. Timothy cracked jokes and kept the room laughing.

Continues
Chris asked us to sing again and the music started. A few minutes later I heard another whoosh. There was a stomping noise as someone stamped on the floor in front of me. Another voice came. It was the voice of an entity calling himself Timothy. Timothy introduced himself as a sort of master of ceremonies. He said it was his job to bring loved ones through and help them communicate with the sitters. We had been told by Chris and David that communicating was difficult for many spirits and Timothy helped to do that. He sounded like a boy really; he was humorous in an old fashioned kind of way and he had a squeaky cockney accent. As I mentioned earlier ectoplasm forms and the spirits manipulate it and use if to form a sort of voice box through which they speak. They say it is like speaking under water. They also say that often they haven’t spoken for so long they have forgotten how they sound. I thought about that. If some one asked me to imitate a little boy I could do it. If someone asked me to imitate how I sounded as a child I wouldn’t have a clue how I sounded. We can never really know if the entities coming through are who they say they are. What we do know is that they do not appear to be from our physical world and their messages are often personal to the sitter and more importantly beneficial to the sitter and others.

Continues The music began (I don’t remember what the tune was) We sang for a few minutes, I felt good. The room felt good. Suddenly there was a whooshing sound; it sounded a bit like a loud intake of breath but that description doesn’t really explain it nor can I compare it to any other sound I have heard before. A few minutes later I heard footsteps walking in front of me - all of the sitters were seated and holding hands so the footsteps didn’t belong to any of us. They were firm solid heavy footsteps and the floor vibrated as they stomped around the room. Then a voice calling himself William introduced himself. William is David’s Guide and he claims he died at the end of the 19th century. He had an old fashioned English clipped BBC kind of voice. He invited people to ask questions on spiritual or philosophical matters and he answered them all without hesitation. His voice came from the centre of the room, not from where David was seated. “William” then approached M who was seated to my left and offered her some healing. She described two hands placed on her head – big hands. “Williams” voice had been in the centre of the room and was now to my left right in front of M. He then moved back to the centre of the room and answered more questions. Then there was another whooshing sound and William was gone.

Continues I’ve often wondered why physical séances still use “trumpets.” In the 1800’s the trumpets (which are really just simple cones) acted as a kind of megaphone for the spirits to amplify their voices; in the 21st century I would have thought something more up to date would be more appropriate, but then we humans love tradition and ritual. David gave a pre séance talk and explained to us about his journey so far, his frustrations, and his hopes. He seems like a straightforward guy and I had a good feeling about him. Now it was time to secure him. He put on a cardigan with six buttons down the front over his tee shirt and fastened the buttons. He sat in the chair and two volunteers fastened the straps round his wrists and ankles. Then plastic straps, the sort police use as handcuffs were inserted through the buckles and round his wrists and ankles. More plastic straps were looped through the buttonholes of the cardigan so it could not be taken off easily without cutting the fasteners off. Once they were fastened another volunteer was invited to cut the fasteners short so they could not be used again. A volunteer, R, then put the cutters in his right hand front pocket. Once David was firmly secured, he was gagged tightly with a red handkerchief. Then the curtain was closed, we were all seated and the lights went out. It was completely black. I couldn’t see anything. I couldn’t see the person sitting next to me. Chris informed us that he would turn the music on and asked that we sing along or hum in order to raise the energy in the room. We were also instructed to hold hands so every sitter was holding onto another sitter.

Continues
Apparently ectoplasm to light is like
boiling water to snow and if during a
séance light is bought into the room or
even sharp movement that would upset
the energy, the ectoplasm shoots into the
body of the medium like stretched elastic
band being released from its tension. The
effect of this can be catastrophic. At best
the ectoplasm shooting back into the body
could bruise and damage the medium, at
worst; it has been known on rare
occasions to inflict fatal damage.
The problem with producing phenomena
in darkness is it gives the sceptic a
reason to accuse the medium of fraud
and David says he insists on strict
protocol to protect him from someone
bringing a torch into the room and also
in an attempt to demonstrate to the
sitters that no fraud is involved.
At 7.30pm the searches began and we
filed one by one into the séance room.
Once everyone was in the room the doors
were locked from the inside. The chairs
were arranged in a horseshoe facing the
curtain area and the chair where David
would sit. Because the floor was carpeted
we had taped two pieces of plywood to the
centre of the floor to create a hard
surface so that any movement could be
heard on the floor.
David arrived after most of us and as we
entered the room he greeted us and told
us where to sit. I was seated three seats
in from the left hand side of the
horseshoe. To my left was a lady called
M and next to her sat Chris, the circle
leader. He had the only equipment in the
room, this being a pair of wire cutters,
plastic fasteners, a CD recorder/player, a
cardboard trumpet, a harmonica, and a
cardboard square. The square and the
trumpet/megaphone were covered in
luminous tape.

An Evening with Modern Day Physical Medium, David Thompson Having sat with a number of mental mediums over the years I had often wondered what it would be like to experience a sitting with a physical medium. I was always reluctant because the idea of sitting in a darkened room observing phenomena didn’t strike me as evidence of survival whereas the plethora of information I been lucky enough to receive from a few sensitive people over the years has left me in no doubt that some part of us survives physical death. Over the past few years I had read a number of articles about a physical medium named David Thompson and in 2007 I decided to see if I could arrange a sitting with him. After a little bit of research I realised this wasn’t going to be easy as David, although a Sussex boy had now relocated to Sydney, Australia. A few months before I had met a couple named Roz & Dennis who edit “Zerdin”, a magazine devoted to physical mediumship. Dennis and Roz had sat with David for many years and shortly after I expressed interested interest in meeting David the opportunity presented itself. David had been invited give a private séance for some people in New York who arranged to fly him, his circle leader Chris, Chris’s wife Rosheen who is David’s manager, and their baby girl Lily, to New York. While they were there they agreed to do another séance for around 25 people and T and I were lucky enough to be invited. We were staying in New York and on the day of the séance and we took an early morning train at from Grand Central Station to Tarrie Town where we were picked up by Dennis, Rosalind and a gentleman named K. K lived locally and had helped organise a venue for the séance. At 5.00pm we drove to the venue. The other sitters began to arrive. They were a mixed bunch; there was H from New Jersey, R, a Spiritualist minister from Long Island, T, Another Spiritualist minister from Florida, and M and T, who travelled from Sedona, and others. The venue was a room in a healing centre. There was nothing special about it. The room was about 30-15 ft with a small stage area at the end separated by a curtain. The floor was all on one level and there were no trap doors to basements or anything like that. The ceiling was about 10 ft high and there was one exit door at the front of the building. We all got to work preparing the room. The windows had to be boarded up and sealed so no light could come in. The room was empty apart from some tables and chairs stacked up in the corner. Folding chairs were brought in and lined up in 4 rows of 6 facing the curtained area. K bought a chair, a heavy solid armchair with wooden arms and legs, and buckles screwed to the arms and legs for David to sit on. It was placed behind the curtained (the cabinet) area. We all sat down and Chris the circle leader gave a short talk. He explained the protocol of the evening. He said that before entering the séance room we would all be searched by hand and with metal detectors (the sort they use at airports) and no jewellery or any items would be allowed in the room. Shoes, jackets, coats, handbags etc also had to be removed and left outside. For the sake of this article I ask the reader to suspend disbelief, keep an open mind, and understand that when I’m referring to ectoplasm, discarnate entities etc I’m accepting the theories of what ectoplasm and other phenomena is and I’m relaying the events as I experienced them. David’s gift is that he produces large amounts of ectoplasm while in deep trance. This means discarnate beings can use the ectoplasm to form a voice box, limbs, and body and manifest in his presence. The limitations of this are that it can only happen in complete darkness. History has shown us that there have been exceptions. The Scottish medium Daniel Dunglas Home was observed levitating on a number of occasions by witnesses in good light and physical phenomena (movement of furniture, trumpets flying round the room) did occur but not full physical manifestations.

Anas09:
I just know he knows. And yes i know he is now a Christian, i follow him closely.

An ex-muslim sent him a mail similar to what you are.saying here about these beings, he warned the guy to stay away from stuff like that. He insisted they are demons.

Before we drop this, pls kindly answer the concept of love presented according to these beings.

I asked some questions with regards to this. Pls answer then we'll drop it.
I just want to know, because these being preaching unconditional love is strange. Do they even know what that even means?

To correct you sir, even though Ali Sina now believes in God and Jesus, it is not like the one presented by the Christians that, I can assure you. He believed God and Jesus as described by NDE. He is NOT a Christian in the sense that you mean, he doesn't belief in salvation by Christ sacrifice, eternal hell etc that a Christian must believe in.
You said an ex Muslim asked him about the mediumship entities and he was against them, I will really appreciate it if you could provide a link to that.
On your question, you've to firstly eliminate the idea or at least suspend your idea that these entities are demons or Satan preaching love.
You asked that on what premise do they preach unconditional love, I don't quiet get that, do you mean what authority they have in preaching about love?
You then asked what kind of love them preach, that I can answer.
You see like I said these beings preach unconditional love to all and said this is the kind of love that God has, but they made it completely clear that this love is a tough love why, because you can't separate it from justice. In fact to them love and justice are two sides of the same coin, you can't claim you have one without having the other, so that when you say God is love it also means God is justice.
In the light of this, even though we all agree that Christ death is an express of unconditional love but he NEVER died for our sins or wash away any sin because even though his death shows love, it completely contradict justice.
It is the nature of justice that it is ONLY melted out on who did the transgression. Whatsoever YOU sow, YOU will reap. We can't sow evil and expect Jesus or someone else to reap it, that is not justice.
So even though your belief that Jesus died for our sins shows love on his part but it COMPLETELY contradict justice that will never allow anybody to suffer for the offence committed by another.
This is the kind of love NDE and these entities preach that is why they both doesn't preach salvation by Christ death but salvation by showing Christ love.

Anas09:
You have gone far into this to know all this.

Am at a loss on how to go about having this discussion with you, because if i come from a Christian Perspective you'll accuse me of biase. And the only perspective i can look at these spirits is from the Biblical perspective wirhout which we can't even know about the existence of these spirits in the first place.

When you talk about Universal, unconditional love, on what premise are these spirits standing on to talk about this kind of love?

The unconsitional love Christ preached was hinged on forgiveness giving.
Forgiveneas of sins which we as humans didnt deserve and didnt ask for, but he gave anyways.

Christ out of that unconditional love, gave up his life for mankind, What have these spirits done for mankind to showcase these love, as love is not complete without giving to the other person what that person cant give to himself?

The Bible says that satan Transforms(disguises, masquarades, pretends, mimicks, Masks, Camouflages, cloaks) himself into an angel of light.

Why does he do this?
1. To deceive
2. To mislead
3. To lie
4. Misdirct people.

If satan preaches unconditional love, what has satan given to humanity to express this kind of love.


You know? I would have really loved for you to present this discourse to Mr Ali Sina. Can you do that? If you do can you let me know?

That is someone who knows better.

Same here, I would like us not to argue about these entities identity because as you rightly said you can only look at it from Biblical respective while I will look at it from another, so it's better we leave it.
When did you follow Ali Sina last? Do you know he is not an atheist anymore? He now belief in God(not in a religious sense) through his study of near death experiences and writes more wonderful articles now.
I once sent a message to him to study the Grail message when I was reading it the time he was an atheist, he said he was busy reading some books then and can't promise to read the Grail message (Perhaps about near death experiences). I don't even know where I put his email, but I will check and get back to you if am able to send him the discourse.
Moreover, I don't think it is necessary to send it to him, since he got "converted" by studying near death experiences am almost sure he will agree with me that these entities are not devils. If you've ever studied near death experiences, you would know that the teachings they brought back and what these mediumship entities are saying are basically the same ie LOVE which is the reason I got interested in it also. And you should note that most of the near death messages also contradict Biblical doctrines like salvation by Jesus sacrifice, eternal hell etc. You can read more about NDE at www.near-death.com
Why did you say Ali Sina knows better about this? Did you know whether he has studied mediumship?

Anas09:
If love is your measuring tool then you can get decieved, because theres no organizarion that doesnt love his own or preach love for his own.

Anyways, am a Christian as you already know, that said, i cant trust demons.

The love am talking about here is not love for organization or its members, these spirits actually preach about UNIVERSAL LOVE. These entities preach unconditional love for everyone, like the name implies, unconditional means that you don't have be a spiritualist, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, atheist, materialist etc for me to love you, this love is without ANY condition, these entities preach about making love a state of your being not something you express to someone because they meet any criteria.
Am surprised you can still call that demonic teachings.

Anas09:
100% correct.
I didnt argue that those manifestations are fake, no. They are real, but they are demonic familiar spirits, so if you are intrigued by them, be careful.
When a demon takes over a host, its difficult for it to relinquish that host.

Am happy you also agree that mediumship is real.
As to what these entities are and how much we can trust there words, I also believe in testing/trying the spirit but in my case unlike the author using Biblical doctrines I test these spirits using the yardstick of LOVE.
To me that's all that really matters, the more loving there message is, the more I agree with it. I have read MANY of there messages and am satisfied that most of them are consistent with love and the only thing they preach is LOVE and am fine with that.
I don't believe an evil spirit or demon will always emphasise love as there message. These entities tell us that what matters in the end is not what you belief but how you live your life, how much love you show and express to others.
As my moniker reads am all for love not belief or doctrine and if any message should satisfy that, am OK with it, and the reason I was interested in there teachings in the first place is not because it is claimed to be from the dead but because there teachings are in perfect harmony with love.
For you as a Christian, this my yardstick of love may not be enough for you, you may need them to also support your doctrine but I don't need that.
The measure of someone spiritual maturity to me is how much love they can and encourage others to express and since there entities are able to do that am fine with them and wouldn't for anything label them demons and if you still maintain that they're demons then I really don't mind to be possessed by these lovely "demons."

Read the comment of Victor Zammit when asked the question:

“David's mediumship is too good
to be true- he must be a fraud.”

Victor's reply

One has to be be very careful when one
says that because if one cannot prove
fraud, that person will be sued for
defamation.
Fraud imputes dishonesty, bad character,
and someone regarded as 'persona-non-
grata' - someone not to be associated
with. In the past the Courts dealt very
harshly with those offenders who call
people a 'fraud' - especially those people
who are doing public service.
David invited me and my partner Wendy,
as established writers on the afterlife
with postgraduate university
qualifications in psychology, admissibility
of evidence and history (we had made a
twenty year study of the history of
mediumship and psychic phenomena) to
investigate him up close for over three
years. We have been totally convinced of
the genuineness of his mediumship.
David has also allowed in experts in
physics, engineering, magic and
professional fraud detection to be sit with
him. David also allowed Montague Keen
the former president, and secretary of the
British Society for Psychical Research
and a member for 55 years to sit with
him. The same Montague Keen chose to come
through David three weeks after his death
as verified by Veronica Keen, Montague's
wife and authenticate David's mediumship.
David Thompson has also conducted a
number of séances for Zerdin
Phenomenal, the leading U.K. organization
which specializes in physical mediumship,
and has allowed the organizers to choose
without any interference, sitters who are
themselves expert mediums who have had
years of experience sitting with a number
of the great materialization mediums of
the past. There is no way that the highly
experienced Zerdin organizers, Dennis and
Ros Pearman, two of the most
knowledgeable and loved people in the
world of physical mediumship, would risk
their reputation by sponsoring a
fraudulent medium.
Rev Tom Newman and Tom and Lisa
Butler, the directors of ATransC have all
experienced David’s mediumship and have
written positively of their experience.
(Tom Butler has an Electronics
Engineering degree and Lisa has a degree
in psychology).
I myself, for 15 months offered the sum
of $500,000 for any reductionist scientist,
materialist, closed minded skeptic or
anybody else in the world to investigate
David Thompson and show that he is
fraudulent. No skeptic scientist or
anybody else ever accepted my conditions.
Absolutely, only ignorant closed minded
skeptics, those who are totally uninformed
or those who have a personal agenda
make the unfounded claim of fraud.
Over the years we traveled to Europe, the
United Kingdom, the United States and
New Zealand and received most positive
reports from people who participated in
David's materializations - especially those
who were able to meet their materialized
loved ones - a spectacular experience they
claim they will never forget.
Source: www.victorzammit.com/articlesdavid/davidclarificationstwo.htm

David Thompson's mediumship has been investigated over the year by various investigators and found genuine..Professional escape artists have been challenged to be tied the way David is usually tied during his Seances and try to escape from it and up till now non have been able to take up that challenge. Also, Victor zammit, one of those that investigated David's have promised 15 months ago to give anyone that can prove David to be fraud $500,000 and no one has taken up the challenge still.

Anas09:
If i remember your Moniker, you were the guy who introduce me to Ali Sina, Yea? Pardon me if am wrong.

Back to biz. Let me recommend this book for you. It will help you understand Mediumship and how it works better. Thank me latter.

"The Challenging Counterfeit" by Raphael Gasson.

Maybe I was the one that "introduced" you to Ali sina because I once created a thread about the conversation of Ali Sina from Islam.
That being said, I read the chapter 13 (TRYING THE SPIRIT) of the book now and the points I can get from the book are:
1. The author is a Christian.
2. The author agreed that manifestations actually happen in seances based on the positive reports of investigators.
3.The author believed that communication with the dead is not supported by the Bible, that God doesn't allow it.
4. He believed the manifesting spirits are devils misleading people because the messages these spirits often preach do not often agree with the Bible. He argued that if the spirits are not demons there messages will always support the Bible messages of salvation only by Jesus Christ, eternal hell etc.
I think the point to be noted is that the author also agreed that manifestations occur in Seances. His interpretation of the beings or who they are is accordingly to his own point of view, and like I said he labelled then demons simply because there teachings contradict his religious beliefs.

Unlike mental mediumship
seance where only the medium hears the voices of the so called dead and relate it to sitters, in physical mediumship seances, the so called dead are materialized physically and can be talk to and touched by any sitter.
The physical mediums are said to produce a substance called ectoplasm in large quantity than everyone else and this is used by the so called dead to build a physical body flesh and blood instantly thus given an irrefutable proof that the soul survives and that there is no death and there are no dead.
Physical mediums are rare unlike mental mediums. David Thompson is one of the rare physical mediums still alive today. He live in Australia where he gives sittings but can also be invited to even another country to do sittings for you provided you agree to pay for his expenses.
David Thompson mediumship has been subjected to vigorous investigation by various investigators and has been found to be a genuine medium and that "beings" materialized physically in his presence.
So are you an atheist, materialist etc doubting this, you can have a private session with him in Australia or if you have the money invite him over to your country where you will be providing the venue and everything to rule out any form of fraud.

Imagine someone claimed he has the ability to give you an irrefutable proof that the dead are not really dead and can make them physically, speak and you can even touch them. You think this is an insult to your intelligence and decided to proof this person as a bloody liar.
To do this, you invited this person(called a medium) to your house into a room he has never been before, you check this person to make sure he is not bringing anything in, you even gave him another cloth to wear. Then you tied this person to a chair with secure ropes to your satisfaction and marked the knots so that their is no way he can escape from it and even if he did you will know instantly. You then secured the mouth with a sticking tape and you drew a straight line from the cheek across the tape so that if he removed it the line will not match again or you secured the mouth with a mouth gag.
Apart from you there are also like five people called the sitters that will be participating and who you've also checked yourself, so that there is no possibility of them bringing anything in or impersonating. You then close the only door leading into the room and put the key in your pocket, also the windows are closed.
Now with this person tied to his chair securely by you and all the sitters are holding each others hands, the light is switched off because this person said this phenomenon can only occur in the dark. Then the sitters are asked to sing to raise the vibration in the room for some minutes and then stop.
Then to your surprise, a voice broke in the silence, definitely not one of a sitters, this voice claimed he is a spirit from the beyond and even claimed to be there with you PHYSICALLY which means you can touch and shake him, you are allowed to touch his hand which is warm just like a normal hand and much more bigger than even the medium's or any of the sitters hand.
This being from the beyond was asked questions and he gave answers from different parts of the room even sometimes from the ceiling. The sitters asked to be touched by this being in different part of the body like nose, left leg, ear etc and this being did so with precision in "pitch dark" room. Sometimes a child voice will speak and this can even the verified with his small hand and fingers when you are touched (remember all these are happening while the sitters joined hands).
Then this manifested being asked you from the far end of the room away from the medium to switch on the light quickly and has you did, this being was gone and you sure the medium still tied securely to his chair in trance, you checked the rope knots and mouth and satisfied that nothing was tampered with and you're left with the question, who are these entities we've been talking to since? Are they really from the beyond?

CONSEQUENCES OF AUTONOMY
Since “individual intellects” must have unlimited autonomy, there is no guarantee that they will choose to Love you once they become autonomous. Since their autonomy must be unlimited and cannot be interfered with – individual intellects may choose whatever other activity or feeling they imagine. It is important to note, that their choices will be limited only by their OWN intellect. (Remember the story of the dog?) What can be done to inspire these “individual autonomous intellects”, so they CHOOSE the path of Love by their OWN Free Will? This is a very delicate situation indeed, because such an inspiration must in no way interfere with ANY aspect of the autonomy of the individual intellect. At this point we should remind ourselves one of our earlier conclusions, that Higher Feelings such as Love are only possible if intellect is sufficiently well developed. The more developed the individual Intellect is – the Higher Feelings it can experience. Hence – Creating conditions for the DEVELOPMENT of autonomous individual intellect is another necessary condition for experiencing Higher Feelings.
Not only is the development of intellect the most logical choice, and a very pleasant activity for intellect itself, but it is the essential condition for creating, developing and experiencing Higher Feelings, including Love. Should this “development of individual intellect” be limited in any way? Would you impose a limit on the intelligence that your own children can achieve? Again, if there is any limit whatsoever in the Design – as soon as it is discovered by the “individual intellect” – it will cause extremely unpleasant feelings of disappointment and deceit. Any chance of achieving Higher Feelings would be completely eliminated. Hence - There CANNOT be any limit in the development of the individual intellect. So, truly High Feelings can only be expected from those “individual intellects” who choose to develop themselves sufficiently AND choose to Love the Designer by their Free Will. But even if the autonomy and development opportunities for “individual intellects” are both unlimited – there is still no guarantee that they choose the Path of Love. In case they do not – there is no point in Designing them to start with. What for? To disturb The Great Intellect? Would you design a System that would greatly disturb your Intellect?

DESIGNING FOR LOVE
Can you force anyone to love you? Can you demand being loved? Would you really love someone if there are “conditions” attached? What happens to true Love in these situations? The moment we try to force anyone to love us, or impose any conditions, the Higher feeling that we call Love – simply stops existing. It is instantly replaced by feelings of bitterness, disappointment and even deceit, as soon as any conditions are discovered. This is a very “delicate situation” – to say the least. From the above, it is clear that: In order to experience True Love - the autonomy of individual intellects cannot be in any way compromised. Individual intellects have to CHOOSE themselves to give their Highest feelings to other individual intellects by their OWN Free Will. Hence, we can define the autonomy of the “individual intellects” as a necessary condition in "designing for love".
Without the autonomy of “individual intellects” – no possibility of Love exists. An essential part of this individual autonomy is the unconstrained Freedom of Choice, or Free Will. Should there be any limits to such an autonomy of the “individual intellect”? If there is any limit whatsoever in The Design – as soon as it is discovered by the “individual intellect” – it would induce very unpleasant feelings of disappointment and deceit. So, In the Design for Love, autonomy of the individual intellect should be unlimited.

INTELLECTUAL NEEDS
We have already established that one of the most pleasurable and satisfying activities for Intellect is to develop ITSELF. Have you discovered anything else trying to answer questions from the previous chapter? Have you found any other ESSENTIAL needs for YOUR intellect? What about a need for FEELINGS? What particular feeling is the most pleasant and always satisfying? Isn’t it LOVING and being LOVED? Indeed, just by examining ourselves we can establish with a high degree of certainty, that ANY advanced intellect has a NEED for Higher Feelings, such as Love. So, without any doubts, we can conclude that The Great Intellect also had a NEED to experience Higher Feelings. It needed to Love and to be Loved. What exactly is “True Love”? It is very difficult to define this blissful “state” of mind and intellect with any precision. One thing is certain, however. In order to experience Love – an exchange of feelings has to take place. To experience Love – we need to give Love and also experience being loved. Do you want a proof? Imagine that one of the above is missing.....
Hence, for Love to be complete and truly fulfilling it has to be a mutual exchange of feelings. Exchange of feelings? With WHOM ? There is no one else! The Intellect is alone in the Nothing! So, The Intellect, at a certain level of its evolution (only then!), develops a NEED for certain sensations, that w e call "feelings". In particular, it imagines a very special, blissful EXCHANGE of feelings that we now call LOVE. But to make such an exchange possible – The Intellect needs a “company” of other "individual intellects" to make such a pleasant exchange POSSIBLE. Do you know how to DESIGN a system, in which the possibility of experiencing Love is maximized? Let’s explore some key aspects of such a design.

THE ORIGIN OF INTELLECT
We agreed that in The Beginning there was a Singular Nothing. We also agreed, that before Life could come to existence – there had to exist a Great Intellect who designed it. How could a Great Intellect come to existence? Could it come to existence from and In the Nothing? Well, we have just discovered, by examining certain aspects of ourselves in one of the previous sections of this book, that intellect CAN and actually DOES develop itself. You have a proof of it within your OWN intellect. Indeed, when you sincerely and thoroughly examine Your Self – you will find that your own intellect has expanded itself from a very simple awareness, so simple in fact, that you may not even consciously remember it. So, we have a very logical sequence. The Intellect developed ITSELF from the simplest possible awareness – just as our intellect did. In other words, the awareness of Nothing expanded itself - much as OUR awareness did. That's why it is SO important to study ourselves – it is the only way to understand Consciousness.
From awareness - consciousness of "being", intelligence and Intellect developed - all by ITSELF and with ITSELF. Nothing else was needed - only the INTENT of Intellect to think by itself – at every stage of its own development.3 We have already established that one of the most pleasurable and satisfying activities for Intellect is to develop ITSELF. Hence, it is almost certain, that after sufficient amount of thinking The Intellect became very evolved - from and in the Nothing. Apart from the pleasure of developing itself, what OTHER essential needs of The Advanced Intellect can we identify beyond any doubt? What would satisfy The Great Intellect and Intelligence of the Designer of Life? It seems impossible to say... However, we CAN determine the needs of OUR intellect, can’t we? Let’s try to establish what activities are the most satisfying for YOUR intelligence and intellect. Imagine that you have no physical body - only intellect and intelligence. What would be the most pleasant and most satisfying activity for your intellect? The ULTIMATE activity? That would NEVER be boring, that you would like doing indefinitely long?
It is purely about yourself. The better you understand the answer - the closer you will approach complete understanding of the Purpose of the entire Universe. For this reason, I suggest that you THINK about the answer to this question, before you continue reading.

WHERE IS INTELLECT?
What is the difference between a living body and a dead body at the moment of death? Every organ in both cases is exactly the same. Even every atom is the same. So what is the difference? “Consciousness is gone” as many experts would say. Gone WHERE? And where is it when we are alive anyway? Surely NOT in any organ, or even not in any atom of our body – because they all remain exactly the same at the point of death. Organs and atoms are not “going” anywhere. They stay the same, and only later do they decay. From this simple example, we have to conclude that consciousness as well as intellect (which is a certain aspect of consciousness), exist independently of the material reality that is composed of atoms. Where are they? We do not know yet2, but it doesn’t mean that we cannot study them. However, it is clear, that using material technology (any instrument made from atoms) to study consciousness and intellect may not be a very good idea. The MIND should be our instrument. Let’s use it.

DEVELOPMENT OF INTELLECT

Let’s examine what are essential conditions for intellect to develop. Is it possible to “record” or “transmit” intellect from one living creature to another? If it was – we would be teaching monkeys and chickens at Universities. Can one person learn and another become more intelligent as a result? Not really. Is it possible to develop intellect without practicing any thinking? Highly unlikely. The only necessary condition for development of intellect seems to be the INTENT of intellect ITSELF. Nothing else is needed – only the intent to think. From the above consideration it is clear that Intellect can ONLY develop ITSELF. No one else can make us more intelligent and wise – only ourselves. Is that not so? So, the key property of intellect is that it can develop ITSELF in the direction of its own INTENT. Now try to imagine what would happen to intellect, if it did NOT have the intent to develop itself. What would happen to your own intellect if you decided NOT to use it at all?
Suppose that you decided NOT to think. It is clear, that in time your intellect would decay and regress significantly. So, intellect has a motive to develop itself. The best and the most logical choice for intellect – is to grow and expand itself. Otherwise it decays and in the extreme case it may even cease to exist. Isn’t it a pleasant feeling to become more intelligent and knowledgeable? Would you consider choosing the opposite? Would you have a desire to become less intelligent? Please keep answers to the above questions in your mind – you may need them very soon.

THE BEGINNING

Imagine The Beginning. The Beginning of Everything. There is NOTHING. Absolutely Nothing - no space, no time, no perception, no consciousness - nothing. Can you imagine TRUE NOTHING? I know that it is hard, but try... Imagine theoretical, hypothetical, absolute NOTHING that had to exist before anything else in The Beginning. The Beginning of Everything. Try to imagine NOTHING in your mind. Now, how many absolute "Nothings" like that can exist? If you say 2 or more - neither of them will be "nothing" anymore - there will be 2 of "something" that you defined and distinguished as 2 separate "things". So, we have to conclude, that in The Beginning - there could only be ONE NOTHING. Singularity. Hence, the entire Universe must be a Single Process – no matter how complicated it seems to us and no matter how limited is our perception and interpretation of it.
Incidentally, everything that our astronomers can perceive in the Universe seems to originate from the Single Point in Space – called by scientists the Centre of the Big Bang.
Is it a coincidence?

THE CONCEPT OF THE PURPOSE

Can you imagine anyone EXTREMELY intelligent designing something with NO purpose and for NO reason? Hence, the next conclusion is that Life MUST have a PURPOSE. The remainder of this book focuses on the most important and possibly the most difficult issue imaginable – on discovering and proving The Purpose of the entire Universe and Life in particular. Prepare your imagination and intellect to stretch to the limits you never thought possible. If you can meet the challenge, even to a limited extent, you will know for SURE your place and perspectives in the Universe. You will no longer need to “believe” anyone and anything. YOU WILL KNOW. For sure. Wouldn’t you like to see your life from the widest perspective imaginable? Wouldn’t you like to KNOW what is really going on in the Universe and WHAT FOR? Why did it happen? Why it HAD TO happen? Many great individuals in the distant past tried to explain some aspects of The Purpose to people who couldn’t even start understanding what they heard. Since they couldn’t understand much – they developed various "beliefs".
But “suspecting” or “believing” in The Purpose and PROVING it comprehensively to EVERY INDIVIDUAL, including YOURSELF are totally different things. The insight and understanding that I would like to share with you in this book was developed gradually, over four decades of trials and errors, followed by 5 years of meditation and intensive concentration, several hours each day. Communicating it to you is the most difficult task in my life so far. Understanding The Purpose and proving it to myself, although a great challenge in itself, was not as difficult as expressing it for other people to understand. Why? Because it takes TWO minds to have truly effective communication. I know myself but I do not know YOU. I simply do not know what information and which examples from Nature would stimulate your imagination most effectively. Before I started writing, I tried to express my discovery to several carefully chosen friends, to whom I am very grateful for their feedback. Almost all of them were deeply moved and suggested to “write this down”. So, here it is. First - let us consider The Beginning. Everything has to have a beginning. Do you agree?

SirWere:
If so; then his wills and thought will change with each progressing leap of intelligence and his rules and commandments will change.




Well; if they do change; always; the least we can get is a continued renewal of his holy book( Bible, Quran, Vedas, Ifa panegyrics ).



Oh; and you shot yourself in the foot when mentioning DESIGN

When I say creative intelligence, am not talking about Allah Jehovah or any religious God.

Ranchhoddas:
If this is the case, then it is also logical to assume that this Intelligence will reach a peak someday, ie the point at which it will not 'grow' again. A being with a beginning has to have an end. This Intelligence cannot be immortal/eternal.

I urge you to follow this thread, the author explains it better, maybe you will find your answer.