₦airaland Forum

^^ Ok, these are the real road users I was waiting for. Thank you for joining the discusson here. like I mentioned earlier on, I drove  through that road in June and your accounts mirror my experiences. Post pics also if you can find time to.

I believe the sensible citizen agitation and push you guys have embarked on is the best way to go. It will be a shame if Lagosians and especially Lekki/Eti-Osa people cannot influence the Lagos State Government. Given the demographics of that area, If they can't exert enough pressure on BRF then I see very little hope for any sensible Govt-citizen engagement in Nigeria.

Bobajo:
I can say more, but i just tire for the matter, Somehow, we always manage to ruin good concepts after applying it the Nigerian way. My good friend Efe has told me not to complain so much again. He says afterall, Nigeria is Turn by Turn PLC, and i should await my turn. Very sad theory. Very true theory.

That is truly sad, but I believe we can rise above that, we know the macro effects of such thinking hurts our people collectively at the end of the day.  .  .

Biscute:
People must not go about there lawful business instead of criticizing our past and presents leaders, They are confusing us, all qarck reporters should be brought to book so that our image out side this country will clean.

^^^

dayokanu:
I wonder how OBJ is able to pull a lot of unintelligent supporters to himself.

DK, I now see your point very clearly

SMH

Eziachi:
Elite like Jubril Aminu understands that fear is very powerful weapon, especially when it comes to holding people down. If every man or woman is thinking about the possibilities of a divorce, I am sure that no one will ever get married.
They know how to tell us what the problems are, but did you see where he offered any sort of solution? All he was saying is just keep the statu quo.

He seems to have problem that there are 60K medical students in a country they claimed to have 140 million people. Which when you carefully analyses it, that is not enough doctors to go round and tomorrow when he is sick, he will be the first to run abroad irrespective.

It was his elitist northern brothers with guns that started turning local councils in the north into states as an instrument of siphoning oil money that never belongs to them and now he woke up to know that no one knew about these PLACES before hand. He knew it, they knew and we all knew it that the continued existence of Nigeria as an entity ruled from one source in the 21st century from a third world's environment perspective is not sustainable and very much unworkable.

Exactly!

^^ I thought we had Iron hands in Buhari, IBB, Abacha? What?!!! We've had iron hands since 1966, I'm disgusted by Jubril Aminu's comments. Saddened by those of NL's who find some sense in his brain dead idea. Oppression don injure my people sha!

I still insist we give Adejoke 3 cutlasses, a sex-starved man at any age is a dangerous man, read Adejoke below

Moses[b] threatened me with a knife without any provocation[/b]. He repeated the same act in 2009.

I can compromise on 2 cutlasses each for both, we can leave the fifth one in court.

I tell ya, this guy gives !diocy a new name. I can't believe he's yet to choke on the stupid drivel that comes out of his mouth!

Katsumoto:
I fully understand what you are proposing but I still feel that it would be better received if it is done on a state level rather than ethnic. A structure similar to the US congress model is best; together with true federalism.

I agree. We have these states already, we can use them with just a little tweaking to fit Nigerian realities.

Beaf:
You no like me at all at all!

Haha no vex bros!

jason123:
It is possible. okay for instance, what if the northern senators and the yoruba senators for a cabal to siphon development towards their region. what would the rest do? majority carries the prize, isn't it?

Then we will have to assume that the North and SW will always want the same things and pursue the same interests, which is impossible.

So going by the equal vote/ethnicity analogy they will eventually need to align with some other minority group to push their own interests at some point, they will not get it for nothing. There are no permanent enemies or friends in politics. Interest rules. The minority will remember the unholy alliance too and make demands when the chance comes, the reality of that possibility is enough to provide needed checks and balances

@Dapobear it's funny how we are posting those same thoughts at about the same time, I agree with beaf, we can do something with these ideas, I propose we invade the senate, Beaf will supply the warriors!

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=578293.msg7456825#msg7456825 date=1294108463]Haha, you beat me to the Ted Stevens example  [/quote]Haha I actually thought you beat me to it until I saw my post up there. Was reading backwards

OAM4J:
How can a Senator representing Isoko do anything to negate ethnicity factor,  when he got there on ethnicity ticket?  The man will think, drink, talk, breath only in Isoko.

As much as I dislike this ethnic federalism business.(did i coin that phrase?   ) I believe an Isoko man thinking, breathing and fighting Isoko issues might be a good thing afterall. It's like Senator Stevens fighting for Alaska or Harry Reed fighting for Nevada.

I see no problem with that, that was why he got elected - to push Isoko issues first- then Nigeria issues in alliance with like minds who share the same views, so when Isoko gets what they want, he can use his vote to ally and negotiate with the Idoma man and  block the Nupe lady from pushing a bill that will limit child rights for example. That is democracy.

@Good points about Nairaland/Nigeria Rousseau

Katsumoto:
Jubril Aminu once said that if Nigeria disintegrates, the North would have access to the ocean.  

SMH, I felt violated reading the nonsense interview.

Beaf:
You've got to wonder why there are such staunch enemies of true federalism in the core North, this is a link to an article in which Jubril Aminu ambushes every sensible progressive thought on Nigeria, I posted it in 2009:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-358828.0.html

Beaf I just got the time to read that Jubril Aminu interview, OMG!!

I thought I heard it all, including GEJ praying that bomb blast demons will confess to Nigerians[sorry I couldn't resist ]. I cannot believe we once had that dunce as a minister!! Petroleum right? Haba! that guy is a functional illiterate I take that back, he's a non-functional !diot, I don't care how many degrees he acquired.


You need to read it again, I almost broke my phone! The arrogant idiocy is indescribable, that guy is not fit to run a public latrine.

I now know why we signed off our peoples future to Shell and co, leaders like Jubril Aminu can't help themselves even if they try. I feel so sad and sorry for him. If I ever get an opportunity to influence what we teach Nigerian kids, I'll insist they read that interview as an example of "how not to think even if you were born dumb" Damn!!

Sorry about the "derail"  I had to vent,

asha 80:
has the yoruba way of life changed?

If I understand your question; you mean do we have an egalitarian society? No we don't, not yet. We talk it but we don't have it yet even in yorubaland.

TewMuch:
That will never happen, African's and ethnic group is more than just a simple solution. Our ethnic groups are our identity, that is why we have to find the system of government that works best for us. Who best to represent you than people that share common beliefs and culture with you? Its either we embrace regionalism or split. The african continent should embrace this as i see this is the only way to move forward. Representation at the federal level will be based on population and you have the power to decide who represents you by votes. If you fail to vote and make your voice count than whatever leader you get is your problem. Each region should go back and decide on what is best for them, and then present the formula at the federal level. We have resource control and can adequately manage ourselves. We pay our own legislators and government officials. I think regionalism will be more efficient and will be a better transition to a split. Nigeria is not working as it is.

I agree with most of your sentiments, I'm not against regionalism within Nigeria, neither am I discounting the importance of ethnic identities, as a matter of fact I champion it.

My question and point is; how do you intend to guarantee my freedom and liberty(something I lack right now) in a breakaway region or a nation that sees/addresses my interests chiefly through ethnic eyes?

I think my individual liberty is more important and working to guarantee that for all is the way to go.

@ All Sincere advocates of ethnic constitution and ethnic recognition, I'll like to ask;

What about the rights of the individual? what if the interests of the sponsors/leaders of my group as -structured by an ethnic based federalism- violates my own sense of individual freedom and liberty?

As a proud and ready Odu'a tokan tokan, I will not hesistate to fight against those who seek to limit my personal liberties under some ethnic considerations, even if their grandfather was Oduduwa's cup bearer.

True individual liberties based on the principles of (home grown) egalitarianism is the way to go IMO.

We can build a nation on that with what we have, or split then worry later, whichever way we go, I believe we won't be satisfied until we embrace individual freedom and liberty regardless of ethinicity, religious beliefs or language.

Rousseau:
Kilode?!, I love your quote by the world renowned Diderot, "men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." Truer words were never spoken. Are you by chance a fan of Romanticism? I find many of the philosophers during the Age of Enlightenment as some of the finest philosophers that have ever lived. This one of the few aspects of European culture that is worthy of praise in my honest opinion. These philosopher were truly kings amongst men. From Diderot to Voltaire, I enjoy reading their works of art.

@Rosseau. Yes I've read a bit of Diderot and a fair amount of Voltaire's writings. But I do consider myself just a Dilettante , a lazy one these days,  I blame the internet!

I'm chiefly interested in the works and thoughts of European Philosophers as it compares with our own traditional philosophies and ideas, especially our ancient philosophers, creeds, norms and thoughts in the areas of nation building, religion and other social-political stuffs.

I agree, those were great men who laid a good foundation for the establishment of the ideas and freedom they use and enjoy in the west today including egalite, liberte and even "federalism" I believe there are good parallels in our history too.

Ok, I think I've derailed the thread enough

Thanks for asking bro!

Beaf:
You mean after the huge amounts of problems the US has caused in the Middle East, you think they don't care? The wikileaks talks between Jonathan and their ambassador that showed how concerned the US is about free and fair elections should be a pointer. They want a modern, equitable Nigerian society, not one packed with unfulfilled almajiri's and all sorts of other bigots that might ultimately target the free flow of oil.

The current govt in Nigeria is exactly what the  is happy with; a son of the soil who can pacify folk from the SS and begin the introduction of civil behaviour and law and order (no more gra gra id!ots). Watch out for massive changes in PDP too, there will be little space for ethnocentric champions and crude politicians after GEJ's 2011 victory.

I don't see the US's interest in Nigeria as a bad thing, we need a lot of help and a partner that can offer that help, similar to the experience of South Korea. We just need to outgrow our ethnic bigotry and begin to embrace merit. The relationship will be what we make of it.

You do have a point, especially with the increased use of war against Islamic terrorism as a political agenda in the USA.  Also, the popularity of political rhetoric against their dependency on Middle east/Terrorist oil helps your point.  


I'm confident the winner of this election -PDP or ACN- will for the most part be the one who can get the backing of powerful foreign oil interests, that is our cross until we get a leader with the balls to fight for Nigerians against them or the ability to beat them at their own game.

GEJ does not strike me as a man that can do it. I'm yet to be convinced of his ability do these things.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=578293.msg7455380#msg7455380 date=1294087714]The war games stuff they do is pretty standard. I'm a bit surprised they post it online and such, but I'd imagine that this is because it is lower level stuff. Higher level stuff (response in case of say a conflict with China, Russia, North Korea, etc) is probably kept strictly under wraps.

But 3rd world countries like Nigeria and the like that could be subdued with only 20k soldiers or so? May as well make your plans and post it online After all, what can we do about it anyway?[/quote]LOL and SMH@ our prospects but;

I'm confident we have a good imperial future with warriors like Beaf and my Ijaw brothas, it's time we stop the rancour and look at how we can re-colonise little little irritants like Gambia and Ghana.

BTW, we will post the scenario on NL. Yes we can!

[quote author=Inked_Nerd link=topic=578319.msg7452615#msg7452615 date=1294052290]I'm against heat and chemicals. I rarely straighten or blow dry my hair. If you do decide on straightening her [your daughter's] hair make sure you use low heat [/quote]Hurray!! So that scary, heavy iron comb you place on red hot kerosene stove does not work anymore?

**dancing around** for my future daughter's sake

I used to pity my sisters 

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=578293.msg7454162#msg7454162 date=1294071760]So I googled, here is what I found:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200908140153.html
http://www.army.mil/-news/2008/05/07/9017-unified-quest-focuses-on-future-persistent-conflict/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/05/war-game-minus/

Here is a quote from the second article
Beaf dude, are you 100% sure that if the US inteferes in Nigeria, it will be to help you and your boys? The language they are using, YOU are the red team, not me (by me, I mean the Yoruba, since that group [and our allies] are mostly what I'm interested in.) I don't have a terrorist organization blowing up stuff in the ND, Abuja, you do. I'm not the one kidnapping foreign oil workers, that is you. I'm not threatening to overthrow the government if the election goes poorly, that is you and your boys. . .[/quote]@ links and excerpts, I can only shake my head at America running scenarios on possible Nigerian conflicts, how to "protect the oil" and placing it online for all.

SMH@ American arrogance. I can't blame them though, at least they know how to plan and protect their own interests.

Do we?

Beaf:
The red team is the core North. Thats as plain as daylight. All Nigeria's terrorists are in the core North.

If I don't stop reading beaf's posts, he will eventually kill me with laughter

Onlytruth:
Only foreigners gain in a waring Nigeria. [s]especially a war based on oil/mineral control w/o any concrete nation building ideology[/s]

A word is enough for the wise.

That's all!

@playboy, rather than apologize for writing nonsense, you chose to repeat the same stuff.

You are a clear candidate for oppression. The kind of followers I'll need if I choose to become a dictator and looter. You know, the type of stockholders CEOs pray for when they want to implement brain dead company policies and loot company accounts.

Dude, You don't need to give excuses for these laggards, they know how to justify their incompetences more than you can.

koruji:
we take oil from the ground and sell it using foreign companies (who steal us blind by the way), but we produce nothing beyond what[b] our farmer's[/b] grow from their day-in-day-out hard labor.

Thank you sir! Those [in bold]are the real heroes of the Nigerian Economy.

Thief 1 (Atiku) and his chief enemy, Thief 2 (GEJ) will both bring us more of the same.

I can't wait to read what Atiku I-have-a-brighter-halo-than-GEJ Abubakar's thoughts are on the issue of True Federalism

That is the debate I want, not this voodoo-economic posturing over weak socio-political foundations.

playboy19:
GenBuhari,

You sure must be from the Hausa land, but please let me remind you that Hausa land is not the only part in Nigeria and if you are old enough to know or notice things going on around you, you would have known or at least noticed that OBJ regime was a lot better than any other regime in Nigeria (I'm referring to his civilian regime, not the military).

Some people around here who really knows about politics/military and the stand of things in Nigeria will agree with me that the biggest problem we have in Nigeria since independence is "UNITING THE COUNTRY" and I am not talking about the normal "Nigeria Must Divide" slogan but the real fact of the issue. The real threat from the so called fathers and war lord of our independence.

If anyone here have relatives in the Army, ask them about this and they will tell you those secret that no ordinary military man will ever reveal to you. For instance, 99% of Nigerian citizen believes that IBB annulled the 1993 democratic election just for annulling sake, but the hidden truth is the he did it for "LOVE" and yes you read that right "LOVE". He loved his buddie MKO Abiola so much that he wasn't ready to loose him (though he eventually lost him). IBB and MKO was such a good friend and he was ready to hand over the power to him, but there were so much pressure and threat from the military realm towards MKO. I remember David Mark, yes the same Senate President promising IBB that "he will personally shoot MKO to death if the power was handed to him.

In short, what I'm stressing is that, the fact that we still have NIGERIA as a nation with all our ethnic groups and all our ups and downs alone is a blessing whether we all like it or not. It's hard to believe but it's true that to hold Nigeria, a country of smart, brilliant, loyal and rebellious people together is a great task. OBJ did that and more. OBJ once said that he remember one of the powerful Nigerian men walking up to him on the day of his inauguration and whispered in his ear "Congratulations but after your regime there wouldn't be any Nigeria again". There are so many powerful Nigerian men living in penthouses around the world making and receiving calls waiting for Nigeria to split up so that they could go back to trading Nigeria as a company the way it all started.

So let nobody around here say OBJ was a failure and in fact, he is the most respected and recognized African figure we have today(probably after Mandela who did absolutely nothing).

Nonsense, revisionist bullcrap!

So I should see IBB as a great leader? Reason: The coward dunce annulled a fair election and rubbished his people's clear mandate because some Gen. David Mark threatened his friend and he loooooved his friend so much? innit?  

One thing I know is that OBJ was a spineless leader, same for IBB and the rest of their generation, all they did, and you unwittingly confirmed, was to protect their asses and the status quo by hiding under some "we need to keep Nigeria one" slogan. Any slow fool can keep the status quo, even Yar'adua.

OBJ, IBB and co did nothing brave, they only kept their fat accounts buoyant.

Thank God History gave us leaders across the world who showed that leaders can end their shameless lives rather than bring up silly excuses. OBJ better be thankful he ruled over confused Nigeria and not the Old Oyo Kingdom. [ hint: they make useless leaders committ suicide]

You need to re-read the crap you wrote up there and apologise for wasting my time.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=576642.msg7452973#msg7452973 date=1294057476]Interesting new posts. I guess it makes for us to see the exact terms of this deal so we can compare and contrast to the alternatives. Hopefully the pending lawsuits make the details public.[/quote]Unfortunately, the contract details or the real people behind the coys/deals will probably not be revealed to the people of Lagos even after the court sees it. It is easy for the LASG (as progressive as they are/claim to be) to benefit from the current dispensation where government transparency is lacking.

Until we pass the Freedom of Information (FOI) bill pending in Senate, we cannot even start wishing for the kind of transparency that will bring govt. contract or company ownership details out to the open like that.

The comments here on the issue tells me that a lot of citizen-stakeholders are concerned about the ownership of those companies and the details of the contract award, so folks, we still have a lot to fight for.

Some background on the FOI bill -> http://allafrica.com/stories/201008190151.html

The FOI issue is like a funny case of a dog chasing its tail since 1999. We might have to cut that tail and feed the dog the darn thing to get it to stop its foolishness.

Lagos specific FOI issue-> http://www.thenigerianvoice.com/nvprint/37272/1/travails-of-the-foi-bill.html

9ijaMan:
Paste this into Google search and you'll find numerous discussions on NL about revenue allocation in 9ja.:
http://www.fmf.gov.ng/FMF_Revenue_Alloc.aspx
The page to the link has been taken down from the website of the ministry of finance. One was able to find current allocations on the page at least up till October when I last checked. I wonder what the motive could be for taking down the page?

Ok so I wasn't hallucinating up there, glad someone confirmed it. I knew I saw the 2010 figures on there till late last year. I'm wondering why they removed it too.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=577593.msg7450320#msg7450320 date=1294004152]Naw, the Ijaw hat is pretty fly! I'm thinking of rocking one myself [/quote]LOL, hell nah! I think im'ma pass on that one, I'll rock my Fila Abeti Aja instead. . .

Beaf:
true federalism is the only answer.

Ok, right, but what is GEJ doing about it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, he's yet to articulate his ideas about true federalism,  I'm yet to hear him speak in support of state police, or even resource control, or the repeal of all those military era, oppressive land use acts. GEJ seem either confused or too afraid to ruffle feathers.

Tell GEJ we are ready to support him if he can make true federalism a political agenda, push it, champion it and campaign on that. I doubt he will do that. I wonder who he's scared of though, it's not like the North will support him anyway.

beaf, That is the issue with bros, he seem more of the same.

On a personal note; Tell him to lose that odious Portuguese/colonial bowler hat and I'll vote for him

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=577593.msg7450009#msg7450009 date=1294000141]So $11 million/month for Ekiti State.

Chicken scratch. Given our population of 2.7 million, $4/month. 13 cents a day. 20 naira/day

I'd much rather have 24/7 electricity supply than 20 naira/day. I'm more sure most Ekiti would agree

But no doubt we would all starve to death without this 20 naira a day

EDIT: Do these #s take into account LGA monies as well?[/quote]Except I'm reading wrongly, I think Ekiti is actually 4Billion/month, yes it includes LGAs (I have the separate tabulation below)

haha I think Ekiti can do better than 20 Naira per day even if they only focus on Yam and Ikogosi Spring water! This oil dependency nonsense is killing our people.

With all the Brainpowers bursting at the seams and wasting away all over Ekiti, they should be a major research center/state for Nigerian industries when we finally get there. I see quiet research incubators/facilities nesting on the beautiful hills of Efon Alaaye -only if we can get it right.

http://www.fmf.gov.ng/portal/uploads/files/FAAC/lgc_faac_April2008.pdf

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=577593.msg7449088#msg7449088 date=1293988181]Honestly, I think we'd be just fine; we'd be forced to manage resources properly and develop a new source of revenue.

Hrm, does anyone have the amount of FG allocations given to each state handy and listed somewhere? It would be interesting to see. . . I imagine that the actual cash that say my Ekiti State gets is probably on the order of like 10 or 15 cents per citizen per day. Piddling amount of money like that makes no real difference.[/quote]See 2008 numbers below. Ekiti gets about the smallest allocation.

I can swear I saw 2010 allocation itemized somewhere on the fmf.gov.ng site late last year but can't seem to find it now.

I agree with the thoughts on food sufficiency. Nigeria does not depend on imported food, save for rice, our staples and diets are largely supported by locally grown food and crops, So food or hunger will not be an issue if SS or SE secedes. Oil boku for Ilajeland in Ondo state anyway

I doubt Beaf supports secession though, na mouth he dey make. Funny guy 

GEJ and beaf know they can't survive without the SW fighting their cause for them, check Awolowo, check Soyinka and the ND militants. They trust SW leaders more than any other group in Naija!

All these talk na just for 2011 election. SS need SW progressives, they know they believe in federalism and they care about equity

Beaf! no go give bros GEJ nonsense advice o, else Niger Delta go carry last.


http://www.fmf.gov.ng/portal/uploads/files/FAAC/State_faac_April2008.pdf

[quote author=aloy/emeka link=topic=577905.msg7447729#msg7447729 date=1293966943]A cutlass in the hands of angry woman nko?.[/quote]An insurance policy? A deterrent?

Oga DK I get Oliver twist request for Chelski, please play l'Alagbon by Chief Dr. Orlando Owoh for Chelsea, because Chelsea don imprison themselves,

One United!!

^^ well said too.