₦airaland Forum

@PastorAIO
There is absolutely no way pilgrim.1 is going to agree with you on this. If you haven't noticed she is at her best when it comes to twisting scripture and she actually thrives on it. There is no way the scriptures would mean anything to her if she can't force her opinion or bias into it.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=285298.msg4055355#msg4055355 date=1245409373]Look at the way these soldiers of christ are fighting one another. Its quite a shame. . .[/quote]i would have assumed those others who claim to love and serve christ would be ethusiastic about sharing their understanding of the gospel of christ here but rather they are more interested in displaying their hatred for the truth being told here and christian brother who they love to hate. it is a shame really that it is taking an atheist to point out thst "soldiers of christ" are fighting each other on a thread that is designed to exhort each other i really weep for "christianity"

[quote author=$osisi link=topic=279224.msg4052829#msg4052829 date=1245360174]Looks like you're getting acquainted with Kunle the "institutionalized Christian breakaway"
By their fruits,you shall know them[/quote]Halleluyah

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=285732.msg4054519#msg4054519 date=1245400388]That said, indeed Paul fended for himself - but not at all times. There are many instances where he actually demanded his expenses to be sorted out by several churches, especially the churches he was responsible for. Do you want examples?[/quote]It is really in very poor taste that you constantly and routinely not only twist scripture [in the name of exegesis] you also deliberately force your poorly conceived opinions and biases into it. Even from all the scriptures you quoted there is not one single one were he demanded expenses to be sorted out. He was merely thanking for and anticipating help for his travels which does not always have to be financial. That not with standing no one as said in this post that Paul never receibved assistance from the church for his evangelism. All the post is saying is that most of our pastors today ignore Pauls example of not being a burden to the flock even though he made it clear that preachers ought to emulate him in 2 thessalonians 3:9

faith69:
When paul fended for himself why didnt he lambast them for not paying tithes

@Rufus007
Thanx for you concern and contribution.

@Sleekmike
Are you sure you are okay or something. If you genuinely think your salvation is in a man made church you seriously need deliverance.

All of the above

emiemi:
Ok Kunle, it's not about criticism but rather understanding which we all consciously and subconsciouly seek.
Jesus christ promised to send the holy spirit to help guide our christian lives, he did not promise us a cannon of scriptures(the bible)

I'll tell you this, when u were in school, you learnt quite a variety of stuffs, but then and again, you refer to
the handouts, texts or google up some topics for refreshing and remembrance. When God put the idea of
putting down what he wanted of man into writing, it wasn't for want of something to do. It's because the
same God knows the limits of the capacity which he has created all his beings (particularly humans). So the
bible came into being, written of mortal men, historical writings, exhortations, warnings, prophecies, etc.
Agreed errors came in, ommissions and some seeming contradictions showing to us exactly what we are -
i.e. imperfect. But does the word cease to exhort, correct, rebuke, admonish, teach us in the path of truth?
The Holy spirit can only give more light unto whatever you have read or are thinking except for unusual cases
when God demonstrate his omnipotence and give a new word that is meet for a pressing situation.

God is the same God yesterday, today and tomorrow.

We seem to be agreeing on some issues here. Personally i have decided to restrain myself while giving an opinion on the bible so i am not mis-understood. But i believe as christians we should prove all things as Apostle paul advised. Today the bible as been idolized and a lot of people can't see beyond the fact that it is a holy book. They forget the fact that the imperfect hand of man was involved in the writting, compilation and translation of the 66 or is it 80 books that the early church fathers agreed to include in the canon under the supervision of emperor constantine.

goldenterp:
@fyneguy @Donnie
lol. I dont think its the miracles, whether real or fake thats the issue with guys here. ITS THE WAY YOU TALK!!!

the more you keep saying it, the more they want to shut you up.

trully trully, they aint seen nothing yet!
our story has been told, we won all the time.
ours is the story of God's superlative grace.
predestination is at work in us.
His ability is at work in us!
look out world, we are on our way!!!

the way you also stated the above is even more nauseating. Are we meant to be looking out for a bunch of deluded freaks who have sold themselves to oyaks?

Tonnie123:
Its 100% wrong, don't try God.

Wrong to do what and please quote scripture to back up your claims.

debosky:
Again you make the mistake of picking ONLY the Mosaic Law definition. Abraham gave a 'tithe' of all the spoils of war, Jacob gave a 'tithe' of ' all that Thou dost give me'. Those are also valid definitions of the tithe. If I decide to give God 10% of my income, as a symbolic indication of giving a tenth of all that he has given me, That is biblical, according to Jacob's act.

Tithes today is preached in most churches based on levitical law [malachi3:8-10] and we know that levitical law defines it as ten percent of the produce of the land. the examples of Abraham and Jacob given are not relevant casue there is no instruction to repeat what they did to even the Israelites talkless of christians

debosky:
I disagree with the bold part - some of the collections were used to support those who preached the word as admonished by Paul to Timothy

1 TImothy 5:17-18
Elders who do their work well should be respected and paid well,especially those who work hard at both preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox to keep it from eating as it treads out the grain.” And in another place, “Those who work deserve their pay!

1 Cor 9:14
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Now how would the above be carried out except from collections?

As a Christian you can decide to do as you wish, there is no compulsion to do anything. Anyone who gives should endeavour to know how resources are being used.  As an example, my 'home' church in Nigeria tenders these figures and it can be clearly seen how much has been spent on supporting the pastors and how much on other activities.

Again, wrong implementation of scripture doesn't render the word invalid - what we should seek is achieving compliance with the word, not this 'blame culture' you seem to be focused on.

Your point here is noted but please note emphasis on christian giving in the NT was to the needy contrary to what is happening today.

Apostle paul is regarded as the most prolific of the apostles and the greatest christain writer/ teacher in history. His writings make up almost 2/3 of the new testament and he is meant to be an example for christian leaders and teachers to follow below are some excerpts from the work of Paul and i want us all to compare and see how well our leaders today are following his examples.

Acts 20:29-35:
29[b] I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock. 30 Even some men from your own group will rise up and distort the truth in order to draw a following.[/b] [sounds familiar? ] 31 Watch out! Remember the three years I was with you—my constant watch and care over you night and day, and my many tears for you.
   32 “And now I entrust you to God and the message of his grace that is able to build you up and give you an inheritance with all those he has set apart for himself.

   33 “I have never coveted anyone’s silver or gold or fine clothes. 34 You know that these hands of mine have worked to supply my own needs and even the needs of those who were with me. 35 And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”


2 Thessalonians 3:6-10:
6 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us. 7 For you know that you ought to imitate us. We were not idle when we were with you. 8 We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it. We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We certainly had the right to ask you to feed us, but we wanted to give you an example to follow. 10 Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “Those unwilling to work will not get to eat.”


1 Timothy 3:1-3:
Leaders in the Church
1 This is a trustworthy saying: “If someone aspires to be an elder,[a] he desires an honorable position.” 2 So an elder must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home, and he must be able to teach. 3 He must not be a heavy drinker or be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money

I really wonder why the so-called church leadership today love money so much.


1 Timothy 6:10-11:
10 For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. 11 But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things. Pursue righteousness and a godly life, along with faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness.

Here we see that men of God are admonished to runaway from evil [love of money] but today what we see is them not just running after it but twisting the gospel to extort money from brethen. May God save us from this so called "men of God" as they are not only robbing the flock of their money but they are also robbing them of their salvation trough the teaching of false gospel [i.e prosperity gospel] which is contrary to the teachings of christ and the apostles.

fyneguy:
Lol Kunle

When will you start loving those who ''hate'' you?

Bros, stop calling people haterz.  You are the hater-general on nairaland  and Sir John is your 2nd in command.

I love you my brother and that is why i am sharing this true gospel with you so your eyes would open and you would saved from the demonic enslavement and yoke placed upon members of CEC plc. I don't hate any body but i stand for the truth and if you stand for the truth the world would hate you just as your predecessors hated Jesus christ.

donnie:
It was after that crusade that we started counting in millions.

Wow business must be really booming

segyemaro:
Kunle,can you pls educate me in holiness in taking alcohol?

Well the holy communion involved the taking of alcohol didn't it? How ever this is not about wether it is holy or not it is more about men forcing their opinions into the word of God. Non consumption of alcohol in christianity is the word of man and not of God. Also remember it is a very grievious sin to add to the word of God.

debosky:
It doesn't have to be 'defined' - tithes means 10% at it's root, so no need to re-define it.

Whilst we all agree it means tenth the question is tenth of what? the bible defines it as ten percent of the produce of the land God gave the Isarelites. But today the meaning has been twisted and re-defined to mean ten per cent of income without any biblical basis.

debosky:
One thing is sure: periodic giving is clearly encouraged in the New Testament, with individuals admonished by Paul to set aside some figure/amount of their income as they decide for weekly collection.

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come." (1 Cor 16:1-2)

I am aware that the next thing I'll hear is that churches these days are misapplying funds, pastors are getting rich, etc. While that may be happening and is without doubt wrong, does that mean people should stop their giving (be it tithe/10% or any other figure)? NO.

Whilst i am not againts periodic giving, the example you gave is only partly and selfishly being implemented by the clergy. In that example the money was being collected for christians who were being persecuted in Jerusalem. [this was also in fufillment of the commandment to love one and other] But today that passage is being used to justify weekly collections in churches without using the money for the purpose which it was meant for. All church collections done in the new testament were always used to help those in need contrrary to what is being prctised today. As a christian i can as well decide to give only to the needy instead of the clergy that is robbing the needy of the money slated for them in the bible.

John 21:15-17:

15 After breakfast Jesus asked Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”

“Yes, Lord,” Peter replied, “you know I love you.”

“Then feed my lambs,” Jesus told him.

16 Jesus repeated the question: “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

“Yes, Lord,” Peter said, “you know I love you.”

“Then take care of my sheep,” Jesus said.

17 A third time he asked him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

Peter was hurt that Jesus asked the question a third time. He said, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Then feed my sheep.



The above passage is Jesus christ's final mandate to Peter who was given the charge to establish the church. You can see here that peter [the church leadership] is instructed to take care of the flock if he loved Jesus and for emphasis Jesus repeated it three times. This shows that it is the responsibilty of the leadership of the church to take care of the flock especially the needy and less priviledge amongst them. But today the opposite is the case all members of the flock are required to contribute to take care of the leader of the flock contrary to the example given in Acts 4:32-35 were contributions were made by believers to take care of those in need amongst them.

@ttalks
I understand your point but personally to me he is just an inconsiquential ranter.

John 13:34-35:
34 So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. 35 Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.”

This is the commandment being repeated here again. It is quite certain that this commandment is sin qua non to being a true christian.



John 15:18-19:
18 “If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first. 19 The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you.

John 16:2-4:
2 For you will be expelled from the synagogues, and the time is coming [b]when those who kill you will think they are doing a holy service for God. 3 This is because they have never known the Father or me. [/b]4 Yes, I’m telling you these things now, so that when they happen, you will remember my warning. I didn’t tell you earlier because I was going to be with you for a while longer.

The above two passages is my response to all those who hate me on Nairaland for always speaking out the truth.

ttalks:
JJYOU,

You are fast becoming Kunle's Nemesis  

Just like in the case of Batman whose nemesis was the Joker;
And Super man, whose nemesis was Lex Luthor

He can never be my nemesis, he is just a lost soul seeking attention.

fyneguy:
@Kunle

Yeah Love is very important but I guess churches are supposed to inform you how they extend this love abi?

Why should i need any church to inform me how to extend love when i have the bible and the bible clearly states how? You for instance attends a church were your pastor is notorious for twisting the scriptures and at the end of the day you miss out on the true teachings of christ and get hooked up on the twisted version that is designed to line to pocket of Oyakhilome.

Luke 16:13-15:

 

13 “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

How does the above teaching of christ compare to the prosperity gospel[mamon worship] that as gained so much popularity today?

14 The Pharisees, who dearly loved their money, heard all this and scoffed at him. 15 Then he said to them, “You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God.

The above verse speaks volumes and is very reflective of what goes on in our churches today in contrast to his teachings. the pharisees who were the pastors of that time also loved money just like their mordern day counterparts. They pretend to be righteous and try to "honour" God with vain monuments built to glorify themselves instead of God and call it the house of God. Even when the bible makes it clear that God does not reside in man made dwellings. These so called monuments are detestable in the sight of God.

JJYOU:
kunle, you poisonous snake is trying a new one. you are blowing cold today. did you forget the tablets or what?

Typical example of "christian love" being demonstrated as practised today.

Luke 6:27-35:

Love for Enemies

27 “But to you who are willing to listen, I say, love your enemies! Do good to those who hate you. 28 Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also. 30 Give to anyone who asks; and when things are taken away from you, don’t try to get them back. 31 Do to others as you would like them to do to you.

32 “If you love only those who love you, why should you get credit for that? Even sinners love those who love them! 33 And if you do good only to those who do good to you, why should you get credit? Even sinners do that much! 34 And if you lend money only to those who can repay you, why should you get credit? Even sinners will lend to other sinners for a full return.

35 “Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked.

The commandment in the above passage "to love our enemies" is one of the most difficult commandments to keep. But then again it reveals the divine nature of christ because surely this statement is beyond human comprehension. As human beings it might be very difficult to keep this commandment but then again if we truely have the spirit of christ in us we should be able to strive to keep the commandment. It is unfortunate that even within the "christian" world today that is so much hate and rivallry that there is virtually nothing to set us apart as christians other than the religious show most of us put up.

Love for God/ Christ is meant to be demonstrated through showing love to others around us who are in need or less priviledged as shown in the scriptures below:

Matthew 25:35-40:
35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’
37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’



As christians we have a duty to give to the needy to demonstrate our love to God and others around us. Interestingly virtually every teaching on giving in the new testament is directed at giving to the needy contrary to what is being taught in churches today that you should give to churches. A lot of pastors especially in the pentecostal fold twist scriptures that teach giving to the poor to mean giving to the church. This to me is using scriptures to rob the poor

Definitely not any of the popular pastors we have parading themselves as men of God today.

segyemaro:
Kunle!

what!!!

fyneguy:
Kunle


Now pretend you were not the poster and read your lines again and check if this piece is for exhortation or bashing


Be true to yourself.

It's not bashing, rather it is reprimanding.

emiemi:
There truly is no idle word that will go unnoticed by humans not to talk of the Almighty God himself.
Olaadegbu has just pointed out some posts which you have started or contributed in. Could you
integrate those 4 posts with this one making 5 together and tell us exactly what you are about?
I believe in truth and I believe the scriptures that said 'like a deer panteth after the waterbrooks
so my heart longeth after thee oh Lord''. And Jesus said he who hunger and thirst after righteousness
shall be filled. I just need you to make a comment to this Kunle. I am a fellow in Christ and would
not immediately judge you but listen to all what you have to say.


This is an exerpt from the thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-186623.0.html#bot

[b]For us to assume as christians that the bible is perfect would be to be absolutely naive. Anybody that as answered at least half of the questions i posed above would understand that there was a lot of human inputs and politics involved in the make up and compilation of the bible and there was absolutely nothing divine about it. That is not to say some books of the bible are not divinely inspired, quite a lot of the books certainly are. A lot of them contain accurate historical records of God's manifestation of himself to mankind. I know some fellow christians would put me under attack for daring to critisize the bible but i am not bothered since the bible is a creation of Man. Jesus christ promised to send the holy spirit to help guide our christian lives, he did not promise us a cannon of scriptures(the bible). Unfortunately most people that profess christianity and claim to have the holy spirit in there lives have actually shut the holy spirit out of their lives. They are just plain religious people and not spirit fiiled.


[/b]

I stand 100% behind evry single word that is stated above quoted from my previous post. If you have any further questions or mis -givings about it you may want to let me know. I also have a question for you, do you believe the bible is the "Undiluted" word of God? if so why do you believe so? My own take on the bible is this: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good - I Thess 5:21
For you to know what i am about and my understanding of christianity please follow my thread on "The true gopsel of Jesus Christ" there i am trying to develope a theme of what Jesus christt came to do on this planet.

They are mostly a bunch of mis-lead and deluded clowns who taught they can buy salvation with money whilst hero worshipping their G.O,G.S or whatever title their Oga goes by.

debosky:
Don't misunderstand - at it's root, tithe means 10% (or some other percentage) . Moses and Jacob paid tithes outside of the mosaic law (albeit in single instances) so you cannot define tithes ONLY on the basis of mosaic law.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=113108.msg4043627#msg4043627 date=1245250552]I'm learning everyday - so thank you again for making my point with the words in bold. Thank you, sir. [/quote]I am also learning everyday the only problem is that christian teachings in the new testament does not even recognize tithes talkless of defining it.

OLAADEGBU:
@KunleOshob,

I can see that you have a lot of likeminded people on this forum or should I say disciples and mentors.  I suggest that you all get yourselves together and form your own fellowship.  The Bible says can two walk together except they agree?  It is obvious that they agree with your convictions on the following points which you feel strongly about:

[list]
[li]That the Scriptures is not the infallible word of God[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]That the Scriptures has been corrupted[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]That the RCC was responsible for the production of the Bible[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]That you don't need to be born again before you can study and understand the Bible[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]That tithing is not a biblical doctrine in the NT period[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]That the gates of hell has prevailed against the church of God[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]That there are no true churches available again and so on[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The claim to be the only ones who study the word of God and understand it[/li]

[/list]

You can choose to misrepresent me for all i care that is your own wahala. The truth shall prevail

OLAADEGBU:
“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” -- 2 Timothy 4:3-4

If you understand the meaning of the scriptures you just posted above you would know that it 100% descibes the state of the church today especially the pentecostal movement[which is very recent and far removed from true christianity] that you belong too. Is it not in your pentecostal churches that pastors preach all sort of unscriptural things that people want to hear instead of sound doctrine? And when people like me point out the faults and errors going on in the church so that we can correct it the vested interests amongst you and the idolators turn round and attack me for daring to read my bible and share the truth with others.

Going through the new testament i realized that the gospel of Jesus was more about us than about God. This can be explained as being a product of the selfless love God/Christ as for us. It was about us living a good life and being good to each other. it was about how we can make the world a better place whilst we prepare to make heaven. It was very selfless[unlike what christianity is today]. It was about pure love in deed and not just in words[our churches and christians pay lip service to this greatest commandment]. It is my sincere belief that any body that claims to be a christian and he genuienly loves christ such a person would keep his commandments especially the ones he made clear to us are his greatest commandments. It is a very sad thing today that his commandments are being largely ignored by the church and most christians who claim to love him. Self love instead of love for others is now the guiding principle in christianity being encouraged today by our so-called clergy.

Matthew 7:12:

The Golden Rule
12 “Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 22:37-39:
The great commandment
37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

The central theme of christianity in the bible is Love and this love was demonstrated in several ways but most especially through activelly helping the poor, needy and less priviledged as recoreded in the bible. It is very unfortunate that those same verses that were used to teach giving to the poor in the NT are now being twisted to mean giving to the "church"[talk of robbing the poor] in my subsequent posts i would try and post as many scriputures as possible which emphasizes that chrisitanity is about love [even though it is glaringly missing in today's version of christianity]

And before i start receiving bashings from fellow "christians" this thread is not about criticizing christianity as it is practised today but more about exhorting ourselves to better christian living based on biblical truths.

I have decided to start this topic to share the good news of the true gopsel of Jesus christ with other beleivers[even though of different indoctrination] muslims and even atheist on this forum and i hope by so doing i would be able to bring more people into the light of truth in the gospel as contrasting with a lot of fallacies being bandied around some churches today. i would try as much as possible to back up all my statements with biblical facts especially from the new testment as what obtains in the old testamnet is certainly NOT christanity and not what the gospel of christ preaches. I would also certainly welcome contributions, constructive analysis/criticism and questions from any well meaning commentator on this thread.

Basically Jesus christ's mission on earth was to reconcile man kind to God and teach them the way God our creator wanted us to live our lives and his message was that of love. Love to God and Love to our fellow man. Basically if any one should have the patience to study the new testament especially the teachings of christ you would discover that, that is all he was trying to teach us and not all the ceremonies and idolatory that goes on in intituitinalized religion which have taken prominence over his true teachings. Another way of understanding christ's message to us is in reading how the apostles preached and practicalized this message in the Acts and other epistles. Below is the first teaching of christ from then on i would try and cover his other major teachings so we can view christianity in it's right perspective.

Matthew 4:17:

17 From then on Jesus began to preach, “Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.”


From then on Jesus preached about living a life pleasing to God. Most of the core of his teachings can be found in matthew chapter 5,6&7 [sermon on the mount] i would not post it here so as not the overload this page but those who genuinely seek the truth can go and study this chapters.

[quote author=petres_007 link=topic=282213.msg4042615#msg4042615 date=1245242775]@Osazu,

I really wish I had time to take you up on this here but I don't. Have to step out now. But please study your scriptures well. The bible doesn;t teach that the christian is lifted above all forms of sickenesses. I know thats whats being peddled about today by men like Kenneth Copeland and our Chris Oyahkilome. But the bible does not teach that christians cannot be sick!

WHat it teaches is what I'd term, the "hope of the believer". That at the return of Christ, those believers who're now dead, will be raised to life and given celestial bodies, which is not prone to sin, sickness or death. And that we will be with him (the Lord) forever. This is the hope of the believer. The bible says that it is in this hope that we are saved! You can actually infer from that that wherver you find a so-called believer who does not have this hope in him, his salvation is seriously questionable. Sadly, thats one thing thats missing from too many of the versions of the gospel being preached out there by supposed men of gawd.

Secondly, the scripture you quoted was actually from 1 Peter 1:4 not 2 Peter. And it says nothing about being "lifted from all forms of sicknesses and diseases". Below is that scripture (RSV), taken from verse 1 down to verse 8, so you can get the full picture and see that verse in its right context. Here:

1 ¶ Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.

5 ¶ For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,

6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,

7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.

8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In the simplest way I can put it now for time's sake, its talking about those in Christ have escaped the corruption (sin) in the world. The passage is about in Christ. Not about not being immune to sickness.

One of the proper ways of arriving of the meaning of a verse/passage of scripture (in addition to making sure you're reading it in its proper context like I've demonstrated above) is to compare it with other scriptures. Below is a passage from 1 John 2: 15-17 (BBE) that corroborates what Peter said here:

15 Have no love for the world or for the things which are in the world. If any man has love for the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 Because everything in the world, the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father but of the world.

17 And the world and its desires is coming to an end: but he who does God's pleasure is living for ever.

And about God speaking to you, at the very least, please know that most of the confusion in the Church today is traceable to this. As a christian, you ought to hold God's rightly divided word of truth far above any voice(s) you may hear.

I think I've tried o. Have to go out now. Take care.[/quote]@Petres
Evidently you have been very well taught and empowered to read the bible and understand it well in it's proper context i thank God for his servant who has been mentoring you in truth. The sad thing is that most people that claim to be christians especially in the pentecostal fold have been trained and tutored to always see what the bible is not saying and "hear" what the holy ghost is not saying. I pray that his truth would not depart from us.