₦airaland Forum

[quote author=beewhyfocs link=topic=282213.msg4012649#msg4012649 date=1244727855][/quote]Tithers always claim it works for them[even though it doesn't cause tithers are in no way better off than non tithers] that just not justify a preacher twisting/manipulating the word of God. Any preach that preaches compulsary tithing is either very ignorant of the truth in the scriptures or he is deliberately mis-leading the flock to fleece them. Any body who studies half of what the bible as to say about tithes and the law would know that as a christian he has know business practicing such a doctrine. that is apart from the fact the way tithing is defined and implemented today is completely unbiblical.

Having realized that compulsary tithe preaching is not only wrong but it is wicked, manipulative and evil and that preachers only force it into christianity because of what they stand to benefit from it it got me looking at a lot of other church doctrines closely and i discovered that they were full of doctrines of men. For instance most pentecostal churches preach that as a christian you shouldn't drink but the evidence we find in the bible is completely diffferent, not only was drinking freelly allowed, Jesus christ himself was a social drinker[luke 7:33-34] The fact that a lot of lies deceit and manipulations takes place in a place that is using the name of God and is supposed to be holy is enough reasoon for me to want to flee. And these lis are not just casual lies but intituitionalized ones hence people just accept them without questioning them. You claim to be a christian, i challenge you to read the new testament from cover to cover objectively and compare with your church practise and doctrines. And lets see if you would remain the same.

I thank God for opening my eyes, i was blind before but now i can see clearly.

beewhyfocs:
Why did you say all those churces could make one not attend church?

Because they preach and emphasize the false doctrine of tithes thereby leading christians away from the grace of christ[Galatians 5:4] For me i have studied every thing the bible as to say about tithes and understand it very well, any church that preaches compulsary tithing is NOT of christ they are in it for the money.

MrCrackles:
Poster
Go with your heart
Bless!

Thanx bro

Krayola:
@ Kunleoshob. . . Goodluck my brotha. Wish you all the best. I gave up on churches a long time ago.

Thanx bro, i have always enjoyed your contribuitions on this forum.

@Petres
Thanx for your contribution i would be getting in touch with you soonest

beewhyfocs:
@ KunleOshob
"The true church of christ has absolutely nothing to do with tithes". I beg to disagree with your concept on tithing as quoted. You might want to read Mathew 23:23 for clarity. Read with patience and try to understand the (b) part of it. My understanding there is that Jesus did not outrightly say we should not pay tithe but that while paying tithe, we should not also forget other wieightier matters of the kingdom.

The scripture you quoted above is an often mis-interpreted scripture which so pastors use to justify the false doctrine of tithes in christianity. You would note that in the verse you quoted Jesus was talking to pharisees who were under the law at that time and thus obligated to tithe according to the law, however we are not under the law as christians and tithes was never taught to christians by Jesus or his apostles. Also note that the tithes mention in that passage were mint, cummin and herbs[agricultural produce] not money from income as people are deceived into believing today.

beewhyfocs:
My advise for you is to look for a church and worship God there. If you are not sure of any, you might want to give; The RCCG, Foursquare Gospel Church, Deeper Life or latter Rain assembly if you are in Lagos; a try. Please, I am not emphasizing any denomination here, I am just mentioning the churches that I know, at least, with tested and trusted leadership. Dont be discouraged by the Building, God is everywhere and He would not hesitate to be where is people are gathered inspite of the cost of their biulding.

God bless you man, you will succeed!

The churches you just mentioned above are very good reasons why a christian should stop attending church.

@m_nwanko
Thanx for your words, they are truely thought provoking and inspirational.

JeSoul:
@All and @Poster,
  I'm no expert on the state of churches in Nigeria as I've been gone a long time, but is this really how majority (at least 90%) of churches are in Naija?

It is not just about naija churches but the whole concept of instituitionalized christianity that is clearly unscriptural. There are so many things wrong with the church toady and i believe the probelm started in the catholic church when they had the first reformation in 325AD. the church was instituitionalized then and made very powerful cause emperor constantine wanted to use the church to achieve political objectives. Even after various churchs started breaking away from the catholic church they still kept a number of the unbiblical practises and doctrines cause it gave the religious leaders control and influence over the flock. The first church to break away [anglican church] actually broke away becos the king of England then was involved in Adultery and he did not want to be subject to the pope. Today most churches especially pentecostal ones break away or are started for financial reasons or money making ventures. You would be shocked what you would discover if you get involved in church politics or get close to it's leadership.

JJYOU:
@ kunle,  on a day like this one is almost tempted to begin preaching but it does help cos i have always told you here there are loads of others standing in that country you cannot be the only christian but you hang around your santimonous self too long that you began to beleive your lies.  may God help you.  

we will not hang you over to the enemy becos you are a precious soul to God and His kingdom.  dont stay too long in the isolation ward you built for yourself because i can gaurantee you the devil will torment you so much you wont recognise kunle.   i hope you saved enough money and hope it is all worth it.

may God remember His mercy and show you His lighta and grace.  it is always beter not to have known the light than know and turn back

i thnk your people still sing that old song  "Jesu lonpe elese manbo,  , elese wa" sorry if i didnt get the words right but you get the drift.  Jesus is calling us all sinners to come to Him.
He is still calling you without money. i would rather have Jesus than any other thing.

And you still believe God or Jesus is residing in any of those man made buildings errornuosly called churches even when the bible as made it clear that made made buildings are not the abode of God.

Acts 7:48:
48 However, the Most High doesn’t live in temples made by human hands. As the prophet says,

Acts 17:24:

  24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples,

OLAADEGBU:
@KunleOshob,

All these fellowships of where one or two people are gathered together in the name of Christ are the ones that grow to become the big churches that you detest.  To be part of the Church of Christ that was bought by the blood of the Lamb you have to be born into it, you don't just join the body of Christ but you get born into the family when you repent and receive Jesus as your personal Saviour and Lord.  This is what is called the spiritual birth experience that brings you into the family of God.  Being a member of the family of God you will want to fellowship with Bible believing Christians who take the Bible as the absolute and final authority in all matters of life.  [b]If you have problems believing the Bible as the inerrant and infallible word of God [/b]then you might just go and fellowship with like minded people who have similar philosophies as you do, and if the blind leads the blind guess where they will all end up.

If you actually do believe in the bible then you should stop being hypocritical. It is quite clear that the church of today has departed from the traditions of the church started by the apostles. The church today is no longer about christ but the instituition and it's leadership as a true christian which you claim to be you should be genuinely worried that the "church" as strayed and should be truthfull enough to admit it instead of defending it blindly.

solosimple:
This is a good expository article on what the church of Christ is, I actually discovered this truth about two years ago. However, let me quickly point it to our attention to the fact that there's something called Christian fellowship/assemblies/gatherings/meetings (it is all over the book of Act of Apostles), Christian would always need a place to meet/fellowship/gather for xtian worships etc. Xtian in the early days weren't meeting in the sky or heaven for fellowship, Xtian activities has always been on planet earth: sometimes the gathering could be in a room, on a hose top, in a hall, on the field in the temple etc (Read through the book of Acts for clarification), The Epistles encourage the gathering  of believers from time to time, and for this to be possible there must be a meeting place. BUT the problem we have here is that alot of xtians have thrown away the essence and the focus of Xtian meetings. Much attention is being given to the man made buildings whereas "the true building (equipping the saints with the UNADULTERATED word of God" is neglected
Yes, all the buildings are of less relevance to God. More so, they all shall be brought down one day as the earth and all that it's in it must pass away. So our attention really should be on things that are of eternal value.

I agree with your submissions above in the fact that it is necessary for beleivers to gather together and fellowship. however what is going on in the churches today is a marked departure from what the apostles taught and practised. As i said i would still fellowship with beleivers but it would be hypocritical of me to continue attending churches that i believe their practises are contrary to the teachings in the bible. In the early church they shared and discussed the word every man was allowed to talk and ask questions it was a real fellowship but today you must just accept what the pastor says whether he is wrong or right you are not even allowed to ask questions or disagree with a pastor's doctrine. Also the early church always shared meals when they met but today our churches are only interested in collecting our money. the early church attended to the material needs of their brethen but today's churches cannot be bothered they would just tell you to go and pray whilst the church leadership spends the church's money on their own excesses. I can gone on and on but then,

solosimple:
My point exactly: Don't conclude that there are no assemblies that doing God's will, just agree that you are yet to find one (same as my case).

Thanx for this correction 

banom:
Who will then pay the tithes and to whom ?

The true church of christ as absolutely nothing to do with tithes

@Debosky
Whilst i appreciate your concerns, i still remain i part of the church[body of christ] however it is the man made establishements that we have been made to believe was ordained by God that i have a problem with. However as i said earlier i would still seek out beleivers and fellowship with them and that act contitutes "the church" to me biblically speaking.

Pastor AIO:
Where 2 or more are gathered in my name, I'll be there.

fellowship can happen anywhere were 2 likeminded people (ie 2 fellows) get together for a common cause.

Pastor your posts are always very refreshing 

origina9ja:
so are does two gana gathered in thier living room or what??
fair enough that we have problem in churches today
but leaving a church aint going to solve anything
abi is thier something i'm missing,

What exactly is your own definition of church? Is it the "body of believers" described in the bible or the man made instituitions/ buildings we have today? For me i remain a part of the true church i have only chosen to stop attending man made instituitions masqurading as "house of God" cause it is clearly unscriptural.

GoodMuyis:
Christianity is not about ornate buildings, flamboyant preachers, or traditional rituals. Christianity is about truly accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

the above statement is very precise but you forgot to write that christianity is also about keeping the commandments of christ which the "church" as conviniently forgotten and that commandment is to love one and other.

OLAADEGBU:
I had earlier warned you that the analogy above was for those who are scientifically inclined. You would do yourself a favour if you just keep to the illustration that you understand and can relate to rather than trying to understand the unknown through terms that are strange to you, as this may do you a lot of harm, mentally.

There is nothing strange about the terms you used as i happen to have a relatively good understanding of quantum physics/mechanics. However that those not take away the fact that your allusions are baseless and contrary to the written word of God in the bible which describes Jesus as the son of God and NOT part of the so-called triune God.

[quote author=Tùdor link=topic=282213.msg4006375#msg4006375 date=1244637548]@kunleoshob
Good for you!
What's left is to start your own church and be true. . .hopefully you'd be blessed with a jet sometime soon. . . .[/quote]I would never start a church as it is being done today. There is only one true church that was established by christ himself any other one is a counterfeit. However i would seek out true believers who earnestly seek to know God and his will for us and i would fellowship with them this way we would be able to "exhort one and other" and also "not forsake the assembly of believers.

If you genuinely seek to know God you would not only read the bible, you would study it. For me it was a desire to know the true gospel of christ and what he really wants from us that drove me to study the bible more. Also all the confusion that emanates from our various churches also made me eager to want to find out the truth for myself.

jagunlabi:
It is very interesting you mentioning "the early church".Was there any church mentioned in the NT or am i missing something.For all i know,Jesus was a wandering preacher in the ancient Judea,and he never had a church.

The apostles established churches based on christ's instructions this you would find in the "Acts of the apostles" and other Pauline letters. However the church established then was what you call "body of beleivers" and NOT a premises or building were worship purpotedly takes place in various denominations/ sects claiming to serve him. The church as it is today has no scriptural basis and that is why i have decided to opt out of the man made instituitions which we were so glaringly warned about in the bible.

Pastor AIO:
If you are interested in a payment in monetary terms then yes, Jesus and his disciples paid money to the Temple. This wasn't Tithe, tithe was agricultural produce, but rather money. It was called the Disdrachma, or Temple tax.

But listen carefully to what Jesus had to say about it and the reasons why he paid it. Matthew 17,24

Now there are many who have said that tithing is only agricultural produce because they had no money in those days. Listen to this:Exodus 30

They did have money, and they did tax the people for the upkeep of the Tabernacle, and it wasn't a percentage tax but rather a fix rate tax whether you were poor or rich, you paid the same amount.

Tithing and paying money to God are two different things completely. I repeat, they are two different things completely.

The above highlighted statement is very instructive scripturally that is in reality you can never pay any money to God neither can any man collect money for him onhis behalf. Any man that claims other wise is making God a lier and the truth is not in him.

banom:
@ Topic,

It is bad to judge a man of God,but it is very good to expose and judge a scammer who operates in the name of a man of God.

GBAM!!!!!!

OLAADEGBU:
To the scientifically minded, you will appreciate how the universe speaks of the tri-une nature of God, and yes, we can go on describing the Godhead because the universe has its own way of illustrating the divine nature of God:

Universe = Space + Matter + Time

We can further break it down to:

Space = height + length + width or

Directions in space = (Up and down) + (left and right) + (forward and backward)

Matter = Protons + Neutrons + Electrons. (with the exception of hydrogen) 

Subdivision in the atomic particles

[list]
[li]Protons = 3 quarks

Neutrons = 3 quarks[/li]
[/list]

Time = Past + Present + Future

All these to remind us of God's triune nature, which is three in One.

God has revealed to us His eternal power and Godhead by the natural things He has created so we have no excuse.  Romans. 1:20

This delusion is worse than i thought, imagine comparing God to quarks, neutron and protons. What is the biblical basis of all this baseless analogies? remember it is a very grievious sin to add or remove from the word of God.

jagunlabi:
Can you share the "true gospel of christ" with folks here?What,in your own opinion,are the true teachings of Jesus that the church has departed from?I am curious to know.
BTW,congrats on your departure from organized religion.

Having studied the new testament very well i came to the realization that the central focus of the gospel of christ was LOVE everything he did and preached was all about love and he repeatedly emphaisized the need for us to love one another through out the new testament. This i believe should be the central focus of any true church that claims to be doing the will of christ. The early church in the new testament radiated so much love to it's members and made it a point of duty to help those in need amongst them church collections then were meant for helping the poor and needy and not "running the church as our greedy pastors claim today" The early church was a good example of love in action but today that essential ingredient of the church is glaringly absent[ they only pay lip service to it]. Today most churches are about the instutuition itself and the leadership it is all about money, power and control. And contrary to wath they preach they are very carnal. The truth is that if you study the bible very well you would realize that there is no difference between our christian leaders today and the pharisees that christ condenmed in the bible.

I just thought i should mention that TVO1 and i met recently while he was on a brief trip to Nigeria and we were able to fellowship together, compare notes and share the true gospel of christ with one another. Whilst we both agreed that we might not yet be on the perfectly right track we both agreed that there were several things wrong with the church today and it is certainly not of christ. I would leave you guys with this passage not just to read but to digest and deeply reflect on

Matthew 7:13-14:
13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

As a gospel believing christian i have always yearned to know God better and to understand his perfect will for my self and his purpose for the existence of man. over the years i have studied various countless christian literature both biblical and historical i have sort to understand what exactly the gospel of christ was all about and i realize it has always been there very obvious in the bible glaring at us all in the face yet we all conviniently choose to ignore it and the so-called church that is meant to mentor us in the understanding of the word is obviously to busy promoting the agenda of it's promoters to point out this obvious truths to us and let us grow in spirit the way it was taught in the bible.

To cut the long story short i have come to the realization with a renewed conviction that there is no church i am aware of today that is doing the will of our lord Jesus christ and the churches we have today are a marked departure from the churches founded by the apostles. That is apart from the fact that church buildings[temples] were done away with in the new testament. I know i would never be fully able to explain the reasons for my decision to people on this forum but i can asure you it is 100% biblical for now i would leave you guys with this write up with my brother TVO1 shared with me

[quote author=TV01 ]Temples built with hands, duh!
In John 4, the Lord encounters the woman by the well. In conversation The Lord at once disabuses her of her misunderstanding and at the same time gives her insight into Gods intention. (Worship of God would no longer be mandated to a to a place or location).

21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
The Lord prophesied the ending of temple worship

Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." And that was immediately after he had cried out in lamentation. Matthew 23: 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

Why was Stephen martyred?

Simply because he declared the system of temple worship redundant; Acts 7:48 However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says: 49 'Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. What house will you build for Me? says the Lord, Or what is the place of My rest?……………

Acts 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. A post-conversion Saul (Paul) was later to echo these words to the Athenians. Acts 17:24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.

All the high traditions of church have been there. The beauty of some of the Catholic cathedrals is breathtaking. St. Peters Basilica in Rome may well move you to tears (http://www.ewtn.com/gallery/sp/sp1.htm), but God is not there. I have visited Anglican churches with frescos that would make you weep. But God is not there. Some traditional church buildings are architectural masterpieces, rightly listed as cultural heritage sites, but God is not there. So, converted light industrial units, re-cycled cinemas and multi-million building projects are all passé, they are religion. God is not there. Truth is, Jesus does not have a (physical) house!

Church is not something you go to, it’s not something you attend, church is something you are. Welcome to Gods Temple. Built with living stones (1 Peter 2:5). It’s transportable, reproducible, easily erected, adaptable, nimble and organic. IT’S ALIVE! Buildings, which are acquired at great cost and barely used, are redundant. The Bible says “Daily” (9 times in the book of Acts alone!), church is everyday in every place, where Gods people (Temple) are. The Church of England is flogging buildings hand over fist. And their own records show that majority use for most of the buildings that remain is for non-church activity. God is not there.

How many times? How plainly? And how blindingly obvious, could the Lord make this truth? ~ NO PHYSICAL BUILDINGS AND NO PHYSICAL OFFERINGS! (Physical sacrifice maybe, but who preaches that?) Resources that should be used to nourish the living temple of God are diverted into physical temples. Money moves in response to need in the body, or to the needy outside (a form of Christian love and witness) full stop.
Mindless temple building is the epitome of pagan worship. Almost all ancient religions had their temples, male/female high priesthoods, temple prostitutes, sacrifices, arcane rituals and a busy sideline in merchandise. A physical church (organization) will ultimately become a den of thieves and a habitation for unclean things. The only thing that awaits these carnal physical structures, along with the attendant man made traditions is desolation.

Matthew 21:12-13 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves. 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

So when they say “we are trusting God for a building”, what they are really hoping is that they can wheedle enough money out of you to acquire one. At best they are misled and misleading, and at worst they are just religious hucksters, preying on peoples faith and ignorance. They are either blindly treading a well-worn religious path, or simply making merchandise of you in order to acquire an expensive backdrop for their vaulting ambition. It’s business (Industry – Entertainment, sector Religion, sub-sector Churchianity).

The plethora of functional titles, administrative hierarchies and reporting lines are reminiscent of corporate entities (which is essentially what they are. See if you can spot the multinationals, the franchises and the one-man businesses). There’s a spirit behind this, manifested in hierarchies, departments, budgets, programs, schedules and such idolatrous concepts as of “my pastor”, “my church”, “my ministry”.

Take the dozen or more levels between the congregation and head of the Roman Catholic tradition for example. From the pope, cardinals, archbishops and bishops down to the “faithful” there exists something like fourteen different levels! You can call it what you please, but it’s a mediatory priesthood, just with a different name. If it walks like a duck and it quacks! All the other traditions have their equivalents.

The newer traditions do seem to have a penchant for bombast (probably explained by the fact that they lack the historical weight and theatrical wardrobe of the so called “high traditions”). Hence, the love of titles like “GO” (the ambitions of some would suggest that the “G” is for galactic!), “Covering Apostle”, “Prophetess to the Nations” and my personal favourite “Armour Bearer”. I guess cheap suits and bad (or just badly dyed) hair, will never acquire the “ecclesiastical chic” of an intricately embroidered mitre and robes.

Church traditions, denominations, sects, communions, synods (or just plain old “membership”) and the like mean nothing to God and have nothing to do with true Christianity. The bible clearly states that; “Christ knows those who are His” (2 Timothy 2:19). None of those things will make your calling and election sure. Hebrews 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect. The only membership that counts is being in the book of life of the Lamb! Whether one is spiritually mature enough to discern it or not, becoming a member, joining a sect, the various ordinations, sacraments and pledges all co-join you with spiritual harlotry (More on this in a later WIT).

Church is simply accessed by faith in Christ. The assembly comprises of all who through time, have placed their faith in the completeness of the Lord Jesus Christ’ saving work. And another thing, written constitutions, creeds and codes are an utter fallacy. Mission statements for Christians, as much as they exist are all to be found clearly stated in the Bible. Think about it, the only reason an addendum would be required is because it contains something not in the original document. So pray tell what’s missing?[/quote]

jumoke 90:
@ topic
my pastor described Holy Trinity like a father whose children bear his surname.for example i bear my daddy's surname and so do the other children of my daddy. That is how i understand. Anyother opinions?

This is the only explanation that makes sense or is true as far as the trinity concept is corcerned. As per the rest of you that are bent on trying to force your unscriptural hallucinations into the scriptures i leave you to youur delusions.

kshow1:
May the almighty God forgive you.
He never stole from anybody we willingly give to glorify Gods name.

Unfortunately the money meant to glorify God is being mis-appropriated and being used to glorify man instead.

mamamia18:
yer definately, will try n read de new testment. recently i have been mostly reading the old testment so that is definately something i will have to do

I suggest you suspend reading the old testament till you are well grounded in the new testament else you could end up being confused with old testament doctrine/laws which are not relevant to christianity. Christian doctrine can only be truely learnt from the new testament.

@OLAADEGBU
I have gone through your thread and i am yet to come across a single shred of evidence that the trinity concept is biblical even the 1John5:7 which you gleefully quote has been acknowledged to be a deliberate mis-translation based on twisted scripture when the catholics were being overzealous in proving the divinity of Jesus. As i stated earlier if the concept was true it would have been clearly stated in the bible and men would not have needed to smuggle it into the bible 4 centuries later.

OLAADEGBU:
There are other threads that deal with the Trinity/Godhead concept. Let us not divert this thread that has been opened about the ego alters. One of the suggested threads is in the link below:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.0.html

I asked for clear cut direct scriptural evidence to support the assertion and NOT another thread on the topic

russellino:
The bible tells us to worship in "Spirit and Truth". If a man of God (an anointed preacher) does what goes against the Word I'm sure as shoot going to say he's wrong. the tricky part is not shaking the faith of those who are not very strong in the Word

Well those who place their faith in these so called men of god are already in error and their faith is not real. it is mis-placed.

mamamia18:
n please note, though this post i was not trying to mock anybody, i just wanted peoples ideas if what i was hearing is a correct doctrine or not, that is all

I am a new born again therefore i am spirtually young. I just dont want to be deceived,

i again ask god to forgive me for posting this thread

Then i suggest you go and read the new testatment to know the teachings of christ and the apostles. Read it as many times as possble as you would learn something new every time you read it, also read it prayer fully and God's will for your christian life would be revealed. Please note that anything contrary to the teachings of christ and the apostles is not acceptable or binding on you as a christian.

chukwudi44:
@ kunle

Discussion about the trinity cannot be wished away justv like that since beleif in it is very vital to your salvation.I would like you to respond to the questions I posed .and also comment on the experience of st Augustine

Kindly show me from scriptures how belief in the concept of trinity is vital to my salvation. If trinity as a concept is a salvation issue then i believe Jesus and the Apostles would have made it clear in their numerous teachings in the new testament and the concept would not have needed to be smuggled into christianity over three hundred years after christianity was established.

earthrealm:
yup pilgrim has said it all, u can never find the right church, u gotta wait until u get 2 heaven, !!

@ kunle, u said sumthing about tithing, cud u be more precise?,

Tithing the way it is preached and practised today in churches does not have any sound biblical bases, it is actually preached and butressed through manipulation of scripture and there is a lot of evidence against the way tithes is practised in churches today in the bible. i have already written a lot on it so if you would like to know better i suggest you check out this thread https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113108.0.html if you have any questions thereafter i would be glad to respond.

v3nom4eva:
@post

See copy n Paste @ work . . .

How many jokes you don compose yourself

segyemaro:
Yes,you can hardly get grape juice in the country,so you can use non alcoholic wine and flakes or even the groundnut too is not bad,so far you are doing it with your whole heart.

Why do you suggest non alcoholic wine when it is very clear from scriptures that the wine drank in the time of Jesus was alcoholic? Please note that there is no such thing as non alcoholic wine and what is being refered to as non -alcoholic wine today is actually sparkling fruit juice bottled as wine. The term in itself is described as "an alcoholic beverage".

I would not go into this debate of trinity though i am glad you guys have admitted it was only implied and not expressly stated. What was expressly stated several times is that Jesus is the son of God and i accept that and would rather run with that rather than what some people want to force into the bible "by implication".