₦airaland Forum

What do you rosicrusians believe in what and what is the amorc all about? Also why is it regarded as a cult?

Image123:
It was largely the ceremonial laws, i.e those Levitical laws.

And is tithes not an integral part of the levithical laws

Image123:
Hebrews 7v5,11 and 12 are the first 3verses with the mention of law . The 3verses are talking about the Levitical laws[b], not some 'law of tithe'. [/b]Verse 16 makes reference to the same law as of carnal commandment, which is the law by which the levite priests were made but Christ's priesthood was by the power of an endless life. Verse 19,28,chapter8v4, chapter9v19,22 and chapter10v1,8 and 28 all refer to this same law . Its the levite law, Moses' law, the ceremonial law. In the 12verses above, its the same law that was referred to. That was the context in which the writer was talking, and all through the book of Hebrews, that's the point/theme driven at. Christ was better than the law and than any other. The remaining 2verses that mention law are Hebrews 8v10 and 10v16 where it talks about a different meaning of law.

I don't know why you have to be dis-honest about the above highlighted the bible was quite specific when it said commandment to tithe under the law in verse 5, that is clear evidence that tithes was one of if not the main issue of the law being addressed also the term "commandemnt" in reference to tithe was used again in verse 18 when tithes was being describe as weak and useless. Anyway you want to argue it you can not deny the fact that tithes is a part of the levithical laws and it was highlighted in the same passage condenming the laws, to me that is quite instructive.

Hebrews 7:5:

5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:18:

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

What was discussed in hebrew 18 as weak and unprofitable is the "commandment" and the only commandment mentioned previously in the passage is the "commandment to tithe" mentioned in verse 5. Please note that it was not the law being described as weak it was the commandment under the law. If the writer of hebrew was refering to the law as weak he would have said so and not referred specifically to the commandment which was earlier ennuciated in verse 5.

@pilgim.1
Just so you don't assume i ran off i have to inform you that i am signing off my system now as i have to go out i would be back tomorrow to address whatever hallucinations you may have posted all in your efforts to confuse the very elects.

@Pilgrim.1
As i see you enjoy ranting a lot i would continue to induldge your excesses and exihibition of poor upbringing exemplified by your uncouth vocabularies in expressing your delusions. It is clear that tithes is a part of the law and it is very instructive that that the commandment to tithe under the law was the specific commandment mentioned before the law was anulled in verse 12 &18. The best you have been able to to prove from the opinions of the commentaries you posted here is that it was the law being refered to and not only tithes whilst mischieviously and conviniently ignoring the FACT that tithes was an intergral part of the law. [and please don't refer to Abraham's tithes as there is no instruction to emulate this one off act of abraham to jews talkless of christians]. And it was this same pilgrim.1 that argued vehemently that the law was not done away with only to recant later and accept it was done away with and that only the principles of the law were relevant to christians. No matter how you want to look at it and twist the srciptures hebrews 7 was talking about not only the law but the commandment to tithe which was clearly stated there and just becos it doesn't suit your argument you are going to find solace in the writings of commentators who did not highlight this FACT in their submissions even though their writings do not argue against the facts which i have stated on what hebrews 7:12&18 was addressing.

@Post
when was this picture taken? And what are they striking about?

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=263218.msg3862563#msg3862563 date=1242226497]Don't you see the dunce you are? So, I already listed my answers about three posts ago, and you had the nerve to be so dubious that I didn't answer ALL your questions on Hebrews 7:18? You didn't surprise me - and I still keep my fingers crossed for the day you will truly know how to be honest.[/quote]If you call those answers then your delusion is beyond comprehension and certainly the money paid for your schooling is a colossal waste. I would suggest you ask your parents to demand a refund from what ever instituitions you attended. You must realize that you are on an intellectual forum and NOT just any rubbish you constrive would be accepted as an answer. If you are dealing with people who are at your very low intelectual parity you might be able to get away with such rubbish but not on nairaland and definitely not with me.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=263218.msg3862509#msg3862509 date=1242225908]Please save this cowardise - just simply show where I refused to answer ALL your questions on Hebrews 7, regardless the answers I proffered. Until you do so, your noise is not effective enough to repair your duplicity. I await, sir.[/quote]There is nothing to show you as you didn't answer any of the questions and i do not consider any of the gibberish you wrote as answers. besides you already listed your so called answers about three posts ago so why are you asking me to repost them again. or is this one of your usual tricks of confusing issues?

It is clearly very unscriptural and against the teachings of christ, but then again how much of the teachings of christ do these penterascal churches follow?

Matthew 23:9:
9And do not call anyone [in the church] on earth father, for you have one Father, Who is in heaven.

@Pilgrim.1
You should know me better than that by now i would NEVR run away from any debate as i am 110% certain of my position. And i insist that you have refused to answer any of my questions on hebrew 7 rather you write utter rubbish that does not address the issue being asked and you claim you have answered it. if i was your lecturer i would certainly give you very big F for your pathetic and dubious attempts to answer simple and straight forward questions.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=263218.msg3862232#msg3862232 date=1242223149]If you're in doubt, I could point you to the commentaries that even anti-tithers have made about Hebrews 7:18. Guess what? They are saying the same thing as I demonstrated on that verse. Your problem is to make lazy statements because you're fond of quoting recycled mantra; and when asked how that could be so, you come back whimpering like you deserted school in middle age.

Mister, this is one time too many that I have to repeat myself to oblige your boredom - I have ALREADY given you the answer to that question, and REPEATED myself over and over again on that same issue:

       (1) here

       (2) here

       (3) [url=http://]here[/url]

       (4) and here yet again!

Excerpts:

[list][li]You sadly have no clue - for the Hebrews 7:11 and 18 that you worry about, I've already discussed what exactly was "weak" and why it was so - those verses did not teach that "tithes" are weak and useless, unless you can show how God ever gave tithes to justify anybody![/li]
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[li]The "weakness" is simply highlighted in Romans 8:3, as cited already - its weakness (of 'fault') was not because of the inability of the people, but rather the inability of the Law itself ("what the law could not do".[/li]
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[li]"the 'first covenant' had this basic 'fault' (in that it could not condemn sin in the flesh), how then could it justify anybody at all"[/li]
[/list][/quote]As usual you exhibit a very high level of intellectual deficeincy here albeit dishonestly. how does any of the gibberish you wrote here clearly explains why the commandment to tithe was described as weak and extremely very useless Your usual trick of using remotely related scripture to prove the illogical simply wouldn't do for me, i guess you are used to debating with people who don't read and understand the scriptures very well or are to lazy to read annd appreciate scriptures in the context it was written. Evidently you have been dealing too much with fellow bible illiterates and you assume evry body as that same level of poor understanding that you posses. And to top it all you are very dis-honst even with your poverty of mind.

@Pilgrim.1
I really don't know what to make of you aside from the fact that you have routinely dodged all the questions i posed to you on Hebrews 7, you turn around and start asking me baseless irrelevant questions with the aim of trying to divert attention from the issue at stake, that is really not very intelligent and i know it is a tactic which you consistently use when the fallacies in your poorly constrieved hallucinations are clearly pointed out. The bible is crystal clear in hebrews 7 and i highlighted the salient issues which makes it clear, instead of you to eat humble pie and accept that you have been wrong all along, you come up with "seemingly" related issues (like reason it was described as weak) and try to make a big deal out of it even though it is clear that the bible described it as weak and useless[very useless] WHAT HAS THE REASON GOT TO DO WITH IT Miss know all why don't you tell us the reason in one single sentence instead of your favourite way of using remotely related scripture to twist the meaning of the scripture and writing epistles whilst saying nothing concrete.

As per the staement you made here: [i]This is what Peter warns against in 2 Peter 1:20-21 > "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".[/i]peter was striictly refering to prophecies in scripture which are normally not very clear and needs to be interpreted and NOT regular scriptures that was written for the clear understanding of those reading them. I am sure you are learned enough to realize that hebrews 7 was not a prophecy. Agian this is one of the several tricks being used by pastors to confuse the flock when they want to bamboozoo them and force their own views and biases[such as tithes] on the congregation.

@Pilgrim.1
My dear it is not my duty to query the bible for describing it as weak and useless[even though i agree with the bible very much on this ] the bottom line is the bible as condenmed the commandment. the reasons why they are descibed as weak and useless are not the issue, i am not aware that God as to give us a reason to make or discard commandments/laws. Just accept the anullment of the commandement and stop trying to cut yourseldf away from grace as christ bought you for a price. don't let any man pull you or others who genuinely seek God back with obsolete and manipulated doctrines

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=263218.msg3861529#msg3861529 date=1242215251]Kunle, please don't run away with your utility grade scholarship. Just a question: what exactly is the "weakness" of the commandment in verse 18?[/quote]Isn't the weakness very glaring today? is tithes not being used to de-fraud millions of christians all over the world today even as we speaktype. The weakness of it is that it is very open to abuse/misinterpretation and the real purpose of it as been discarded for selfish reasons. Evidently God must have forseen that tithes would be used to extort his flock hence the reason he anulled the commandment to tithe in hebrews7.

@ilgrim.1
As usual talking gibberish and confusing issues the " commandment" under the law as stated in that passaged was clearly the commandment to tithes as clearly stated in verse 5[i] [And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:]
[/i] this commandment was refered to again in verse 18 which says[i] [18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof][/i]

Evidently what is being described as weak and unprofitable is the commandment to tithe under the law and NOT the law in itself as pilgim.1 would like us to believe. My dear i think you should stop confusing issues and using evasive tactics the bible is clear enough on the issue of tithes. And as i have always said my grouse is against the preaching of mandatory tithing which is very rampnat in our churches today. I wonder how as a christian you are able to tolerate the idea that some people can use the word of God to de-fraud other christians and still also defend them, it really beats my imagination. You have admitted that tithing is not compulsary for christians yet you know that most churches preach it as compulsary based on malachi 3:10 yet you attack those of us who are bold enough to speak againt such evil, i really wonder what your motive is.

@Pilgrim.1
As usual you failed to anser the clear and specific question i asked which remains: "If in your highly esteemed opinion it is not refering to it, could tell us exactly what law/ commandment in very clear and precise terms that the verse is addressing?" Whilst you are at the issue of commandment/ law kindly also tell us which commandment under the law was being refered to in verse 18 which was described as weak and unprofitable.(KJV)

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.


ps: kindly make your answer short and precise your long answers always serve to confuse issues and deviated from the crux of the matter.

Christianity as absolutely nothing against the consumption of alcohol as long as it is taking in moderation, so there is no reason why a christain should not work in a brewery. Those who preach that as a christain you should not drink are false prophets and the truth is not in them. There is no where in the bible that alcohol consumption was prohibited for christians.

georgecso:
[size=16pt]Most of our politicians/leaders are completely faithless[/size]

In reality it is most Nigerians that love being taking for a ride, when the idiot last year was busy brandishing falsehood and distorted truths to us in the name of power probe most of you were busy applauding him and too naive to see the obvious fallacies in his spurious claims all becos OBJ was involved and most of you like to believe any thing negative written about this National hero. Now chicken as come home to roost and foul yansh don open. I thank God that the truth is coming out fast and OBJ has finally been vindicated.

Feelitx:
I think we should slow a bit on rubbishing the guy: This is Nigeria and the big fat cows always fight back.

Why should we slow down? when he was wasting tax payers money last year and busy rubbishing hard working Nigerians who were working hard to implement the power project[until president go slow halted it] all in the name of a charade called power probe you were all busy applauding him, i am quite certain the guy is guilty as charged and deserves to rot in jail. Can you imagine stealing six billion meant for rural electrificationin the middle of all the power problems we are having in this country

@Pigrim.1
I would assume the statement made in Hebrews 7:11 is quite explicit and unambiguos as it is clear that it is refering to the "commandment under the law to tithe" which was stated in verse 5. If in your highly esteemed opinion it is not refering to it, could tell us exactly what law/ commandment in very clear and precise terms that the verse is addressing.

Hebrews 7:5:
5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law[b], that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:



Hebrews 7:12:
12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the[b]law

Finally the truth is being unveiled some of us have always known that ndudi elumelu is corruption personified, his so called power probe was just a sham which as now been completely discreditted and and shown to be a hachet Job. I sincerely pray and hope he gets what he truelly deserves. Most of you were excited last year when the man was acting out his charade and the press were propagating him, but anyone who had a tiny bit of common sense should have seen throuh it all the whole power pobe was obviously working towards a predetermined answer. But Nigerians like believing rubbish.

@Abose
You should have started the passage you quoted from verse 5 so it would be obvious to all that it was the commandement to tithe that was being changed/ anulled in verse 12 and it was also the same commandment that was described as weak and unprofitable in verse 18. The truth is quite evident and very glaring, but some people have been soo thoroughly brainwashed about this scam called tithing that they actually look for irrelevant scriptures and twist them to provide false logic in favour of tithes which God never requested from christians in the first place. Such people should remember that it is a grievious sin to twist the word of God no matter the reason they are twisting it for.

Evidently the crook must be assuming he is a great man

solosimple:
really. I think it is worth praying over. I earnestly seek for genuine xtian worship myself, but where do I go. well, I just stick to my Bible. Maybe there's someone on nairaland who really can help, if there's someone here who is sure of his own church (in their teachings and practices) pls I might need to talk to you.

A lot of people falsely assume that their church is worshipping god the right way but the truth is that most at least 95% of churchs are not. The christianity we practise today is totally different from the christian the apostles taught the early christianswhich was based on pure love and affection for each other. This is how the bible defines true worship:

Jamses 1:27: True and genuine religion[worship] in the eyes of God the father is to take care of the orphaned and the widows in their affliction and to keep yourself from being corrupted by the world.

How many churches today actually practise christianity this way?

abose:
Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the law in which all Israelites were to give 10% of everything they earned and grew to the Tabernacle / Temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites of the sacrificial system. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

Just taught i should point out that the church highlighted above that Paul was raising money for in the above passage is actually church members in Jerusalem who were being persecuted at that time, it was not meant to "run" the church instituition and it was not a commandement passed down to all christians. It was a specific collection for a specific pupose.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=263218.msg3840741#msg3840741 date=1241797508]@abose,

Easy bros, have I been arguing for a 'hard number' all this time? Perhaps it may help you to go through several of my posts where I've often highlighted the fact that tithes are not always and only '10%' - even honest anti-tithers who write hundreds of pages against the subject will tell you it is not always 10% even though it is called 'tithe'.  Your complaints about Lucifer and some people claiming to be Christian, etc. seem more to be deflections than a balanced approach to this subject. We don't have to bring in such things as if it was 'tithes' that turned Lucifer into the devil. Haba. Let's try and keep all these unrelated issues in their proper perspectives and not mix up ideas here and there. Blessings.[/quote]When would you get tired of this your worn out argument that tithes could be something other than ten percent the church stipulates ten percent the bible also defines tithes as ten percent all your analogies that it could be more or less than ten percent is in vain we know what it is defined to be and what people are manipulated into paying and that is what we are up against. The topic of this post says "what tithe really means" and some of us have defined it undiluted from the bible which defines it as ten percent of the produce of the land of Israel and the tenth animal that passes under the rod. This is how the bible defines it. I wonder were our pastors and pilgrim.1 got their own definitions from

Pastor AIO:
Please anyone that is unsure as to where to pay their tithes, both pastors and laymen, should send a cheque addressed to me to my address. I shall post the relevant details soon.

Cheers.

Please lets have the details before sunday so i can send my tithes. Pilgrim.1 as convinced me to start paying tithes

Would like to learn more about IFA so i thought I'd re-activate this thread. Is there any IFA adherent on the forum? Can you testify to the efficacy of IFA devination and practises?

Some honest pastors actual admit and preach that tithing is not mandatory for christians, what they preach is offerings given from a willing heart,

ttalks:
@Kunle,

Let's give it a rest. I think the only thing we should speak against is the lie that those of us that do not tithe "are robbing God" since some people view and pay their tithes based on instructions of the Law.

I am not sure i am ready to rest on this issue, you don't seem to get my point this is not just about tithes or not tithing, it is about the evil of twisting God's word to de-fraud people, this i think is a very grievious sin and it MUST be stopped. I intend to use all avenues open to me to spread the truth and let christians know they are being deceived into tithing. My conscience would not allow me rest on this issue whilst poor folks are being fleeced, i see it as my christian mandate to reveal the truth to other believers, at least once this crooked preachers start being challenged on the issue of tithes based on scriptures which i share with them and the preachers are embarrassed, i am sure they would think twice about it before uttering the rubbish again and less people would fall victim to the scam. Already through my ministry several people have stopped paying tithes and they are spreading the truth to other believers i have also published an article in newspapers and magazines to let people know this truth and the response as been quite overwhelming. As christians we shouldn't sit down and let our brethen be fleeced we should let them know the truth and the truth shall set them free.