₦airaland Forum

Pataki:
And did you bother to see the rally in support of when Saddam was removed from office and finally executed from the same Iraqis? Did you weigh that into your reasoning before spitting out what you are saying here? Your opinion does not matter though.

I am no fan of saddam and his presidency was tyrannical no doubt. It was an internal matter for the Iraqis and there is no where in the UN charter that says a another country should invade a sovereign state to change the regime!!

Lagosboy:
We can only debate on the US official stated objective any other objective u lots are trying to concote would forever remain speculation. The US went to the UN to seek its mandate and said it was WMD they were looking for WMD wast found period.

davidylan:
Lagosboy calls me a racist and says Al Zaidi is a hero.

this guy na real lagosmumu

An intelligent man would state why i called your comment racist and defend it. Perhaps you might want to state your comments again so people that didnt see it might see it nowand decide for themselves!!

Pataki:
Whether you refuse to see it in my ways or not, I am least bothered. Saddam's reign was terror and if the only laudable achievement of Bush's administration was removing him and killing him, I am satisfied with that. [b]At least it is a moment of respite for that n[/b]ation.

Funny the Iraqi people dont see the occupation as respite and cant wait to see the back of the last american soldier. Look at the rally in support of Zaidi!!! He his seen as a hero among his people. Your opinion doesn’t matter

Bastage:
Simple question.

Was it? Normally guys like you would say it's oil. My view is that Saddam was on the road to causing even more trouble in the region. Trouble that would make the problems now look like a family picnic. Don't believe me? History shows this. I've already pointed to a million dead.
Also, people whine on about the Yanks and WMD. They forget that it was the UN who were saying that Iraq was compiling a WMD arsenal. They also forget that Saddam implicity tried to make it look like he had WMDs. They also forget that Saddam had even used WMDs both against the Iranians and his own people. So the WMD argument can't be dismissed even though you would like it to be. The fact that they found none means absolutely nothing. The fact that he was trying to obtain them, the fact that he had used them in the past and the fact that he was quite capable of using them again if he got his hands on them means a helluva lot more.

Intellectuals would agree with me that this statement of yours is pathetic. The main objective of a war was not met and yet it means nothing?  Thousands of lives like u quoted have been lost yet it means nothing?

Since when has presumption been used to justify a war.

This WMD of your u say Saddam used against his own people who sold them to him? It would be interesting to note that it was Rumsfeld who sold chemical weapons to Saddam in the 1980’s

Did I hear you mention UN how come the chief UN inspector said Iraq has no capability of WMD’s again. He even asked for more time to treble check the “concoted lies” called intelligence he wasn’t given.

El Baradai IAEE head said Iraq had no WMD he was ignored yet the intelligence of Ahamad Chalabi was taken to be correct and funny the US military went after him. Note that El Baradai was given the Peace Noble Laureate for his stance for peace not war in Iraq and beyond!

We can only debate on the US official stated objective any other objective u lots are trying to concote would forever remain speculation. The US went to the UN to seek its mandate and said it was WMD they were looking for WMD wast found period.

Bastage:
.
Using the figures put out by Saddam himself (and therefore probably way overstated), the US invasion cost 38 civilian deaths a day.

Look at you!!! comparing deaths of human beings like it was chicken that were killed.

38 civilian deaths a day!! so what are you inferring that this figure is low? or high? Kai 38 human souls a day for 5 years. Is this to justify liberation? I just cant understand your arguement.

The objective of the war was WMD. Just answer the simple question was WMD found in Iraq? maybe the answer would end the debate.

It is painful that becaus ewe are not from that country or have relatives there we would never understand the pains the went and aregoing through. I have friends that their family were displaced and living like refugees. Among shias and amon sunni there thousands suffering.

The same way u u condemn 9/11 is the same u should condemn the Iraq war!!

How come France, Russia China, Canada, never supported this evil war!!. How come Mr bush is the most lowly rate president ever if Iraq qas a success.

US soldiers that served in Iraq go speak to them and let them tell you what they think of Bush. Teenage soldiers that Bush wasted their lives in the name of liberation of Iraqi people. Why did he not send his daughters to serve in iraq!!!

Kai Zaidi is a legend!!!!!

@ Moves

True talk Every politcal post some people here convert it to religous rhetoric. The have lost all sense of objectivity and reasoning!!! The pass racist comments and castigate a whole race and religion what a shame!!!

@Bastage

I followed this war every minute of this war till today. I listened to sahaf’s press conference. I am not saying he was telling the truth and i like i stated in my post if u read it again he was taken as a commedian!! The point I am making is simple. Bombing of the govt buildings did not affect the propaganda war as Sahafs still held a propaganda press conference on the day Baghdad was captured!!!! Simple. It was after the fall of Baghdad the world realised Sahaf was a joke!!.

The point is apart from those on ground fighting Sahaf succeeded in painting a diff picture to d world. The “Shock and Awe” did not limit his propaganda

Bastage:
That is totally and utterly illogical.

To see that there is a problem iin the first place, you have to recognise that problem. Recognising that problem means that it has to be condemned. Otherwise it's not a problem is it? Condemnation is the first step to finding a solution.
Go take a look at how the UN or any other conciliatory body works. They say "This is wrong" and then they go and try to sort out the problem. Without that "This is wrong", nobody even knows that there is a problem.

.

Who has said the actions should not be condemned. All i am sayings is the way you lot want muslims to stage rallies and so on to conndemn the act is just pointless. Hundred of muslims scholars pass religious verdicts condemning evil actions!! Read my whole post and not quote me out of context!!

Bastage:
That is totally and utterly illogical.

Dodging the bombs and bullets of your brethren.

I like to respect people and not be abusive or combative and my posts reflect this but this statement of yours is very sad and depicts your intelligence.

Limit the

Bastage:
Major significance. If you hit an administration's infrastructure you reduce his capacity to operate. For example - one of the first buildings hit was the Ministry of Information. This severely limited Saddam's ability to run a propaganda war.
Not only that but as the words "Shock and Awe" imply, you intimidate him.
"Shock and Awe" was a way of showing those who did support the Saddam regime that they were totally outgunned.

Did u say limit the proaganda war? The propaganda went on till the very last day Saddam left Baghdad. How come You have forgotten Sa’ed al Sahaf. The great minister of information who became celebrity. He ran a wonderful propaganda war that amazed and confused western media outlet. He was so excellent when he was caught he was freed and not put into jail. Even the US acknowledged his brilliance and sense of humour

Bastage:
Lets look at another of your statements.

Do you even know what carpet bombing is? The US didn't carpet bomb a single Iraqi town or city.

As for "Shock and Awe". Do you even know what that was? It was precision strikes at Iraqi governement targets.
Do you know how many civilian casualties were a result of "Shock and Awe"?
Less than a dozen.

And Zimbabwe is irrelevant. But you can bet anything that if the West did move in to remove Mugabe, you and your ilk would be the first out on the streets protesting and whining.

@ Bastage This war has been an acknowledged failure there is no point justifying this war. Its objective was WMD it wasnt found period!!
A dozen civilians!!! The destruction of Iraqi Govt buildings is that liberation What significance is that? Is that where the WMD are located?

Donal Rumsfeld lost his job because of his foolish handling of the war and here you are trying to interpret his phrase "shock and awe"

Bastage:
Your foot probably has webbed toes.

The vast number of Iraqis are Shias. This is the group that Saddam had systematically targetted and beaten into submission for decades. They were dancing in the streets when the US rolled into Baghdad.
My sources come from every single media outlet that reported during the invasion. To say that most Iraqis weren't happy when Saddam was removed from power is a joke. Even now, polls show that the majority are still grateful that he's gone. The fact that they now hate the US has nothing to do with it.

They had security and power under Saddam? Over a million of them died. The vast majority of the rest lived under repression.

True Saddam wasnt as friendly with the Shias and it was because many of them supported his enemy Iran because of religious links. Muqtadar Sadr is Shia and has been fighting US forces since 2004.

When you say vast pls give us the percentage the shia are majority no doubt but to say all of them supported the invasion is not true. The didn’t like saddam yes and they didn’t like the US either!!

did u say Saddam killed 1 million iraqi shias pls whwere did u get this from!!! You probably meant soldiers that died durin the iraqi iran war. Soldiers died on both sides and the war was a stalemate!!

I repeat The army of Saddam was the 4th strongest and in terms of largeness it was probably the 2nd as it had 1 million soldiers under arm not reserves!!! Check it out!!

Jarus:
Unfortunately, don't know any member to throw my salubata at. . . . but in Nigerian political scene I'll throw my bugibugi @ Maurice Iwu.

I support you the guy sucks. Anything that comes out of his mouth is filthy garbage. He seems to have mortgaged his intelligence for pop corn!!

Bastage:
No. He would have been tortured beyond imagination before being executed.

The fact that the worst this guy will receive is a few days in jail means he's no legend. If anyone throws a shoe at anyone else in any country, it's considered a crime and the prepertrator is punished. The Arabs may make him out to be a martyr but that's purely because they're hypocrites.

Now if the guy has thrown a shoe at Saddam, then he would have been a legend and definitely a martyr. Allbeit a dead one.


As for the invasion. Actually, the vast majority of Iraqis saw it not as an invasion, but as a liberation. But as they have historically done in the past when liberated from despotism (1920 springs to mind) they turn around and bite the hand that feeds them. It's akin to pulling someone out of quicksand and having them turn around and punch you in the face when you have freed them. Then they will go and punch everyone else in the face and blame you for having pulled them out. If they say it enough, even your friends will get tired and agree that it's your fault.
Iraqis are amongst the most ungrateful, hypocritical, rude, violent people on Earth.

Where did you get your sources from Vast number my foot!! Since when do people spread liberation on the wings of F-16 fighter jets, Liberation by carpet bombing and in Donald Rumsfeld words “Shock and awe”. Did Iraqis beg for liberation ? Yes they didn’t like Saddam and also they didn’t like the amricans to come and occupy them. You call them ingrate but these same people at least had security and power during Saddam. Invasion made them exiles and refugees. Invasion brought them insecurity and terror, invasion brought them Al qaeda which they never had, Invasion brought them humiliation by having check points and been frisked everywhere by some foreign forces!! Invasion brought them poverty and made their young girls prostitutes!!

Pls Tell Bush to go liberate the Zimbabweans from Mugabe!!!

Iraq had the 2nd best healthcare system in the world in the 80s , Iraq has the highest number of scientis from any Arab country, Iraq had the 4 strongest army in the world in the 80s, Iraq was indeed an envy of other arab countries but the foolishness of Saddam invading Kuwait began the problem. The US finally destroyed the countr

this lagosboy is a very funny hypocrite:

funny how these faceless "thousands" express their views:
1. Where were they when Saddam was gassing the kurds and shiites? They had no views to express?
2. Why are these cowards not expressing their views about Iranian-made IEDs that have maimed and killed thousands of Iraqis? Where is there outrage against alqaeda and the militia of Muqtada Sadr?
3. Do you know that more than 90% of those killed in Iraq have been killed by fellow Iraqis?
4. Zaidi was captured TWICE by Iraqi militia . . . where was his outrage against them?

Perhaps you shld take a peep at prisons in Iraq and Iran . . .
Perhaps you shld take a peep at prisons where Saddam tortured those who spoke against him including journalists like Zaidi.
Perhaps you shld consider that much of the claims against Abu Ghraib are actually false . . . we know arabs have a penchant for lying.

@Davidylan

This your quote above its in italics couldn’t find how to insert earlier pages quote

Now back to the issue.

You said “ we all know arabs have a penchant for lying”. Folks on NL sometimes I wonder if it is worth debating with opinionated racists like Davidylan.  Davidylan the world has moved on people don’t usually use derogatory terms to depict a race. You live in the west but civility has evaded you. Imagine someone saying we know blacks have a penchant for lying, Nairalanders pls be honest how would u feel. These kind of comments people lose their jobs for in the UK. Your hatred and emotions always becloud your sense of reasoning and analysis.  If arabs have a penchant for lying the General Abizaid the former commander of US forces in Iraq is the greatest liar. Abizaid is an Arab American!!! Perhaps you have forgotten that there are thousands of Arab Christians as well. Shed your racist views and expand your horizon.

To the issue at hand.Lets leave religion out of this issue and argue with our common sense. Let me take your points by the number

1. Gassing of kurds and Shiites. Let me state to you that the Shiites were never gassed it was only the kurds. I am no fan of saddam and the gassing was a criminal act and inhumane but hold on a sec!!! who supplied those chemical weapons to him? Donald rumsfeld in 1987 or thereabout (perhaps u were to young to know then)  went to Iraq to sell Saddam chemical weapons to use against the  Iranians. How soon do we forget and we talking of hypocrisy!!1 Saddam was a friend to the US when he committed all these atrocities and suddenly he became an enemy after d unjustifiable invasion of Kuwait. Have you forgotten The US used Saddam to fight a proxy war with Iran?
2. u talked abt IEDs, pls Did Iran have any influence in Iraq before the invasion? Why is it after the US invaded Iran gained influence. No invasion no IEDs , No invasion no al qaeda in Iraq. The invasion is the cause of all these problems.  You asked abt the outrage against alqaeda have u heard of the Iraqi awakening ? they have relegated al qaeda in Iraq to the background and have secured the Anbar province.
3. 90% killed in iraq?? Durng the time of Saddam there was security and there was no civil war. The US poke nosed into another country’s affairs and couldn’t manage the results. No invasion no civil war!!!
4. U talk of outrage against the militia?? Hundreds of people were captured by the militia he wasn’t an isolated case.

You now talked of prisons. Yes saddam torture and so do Americans torture . The 5 British guys that were innocently detained at Guantanamo are presently suing the US govt in American courts for torture!!! Ever heard of rendition – where hundreds of people are flown in CIA planes to tourture chambers in Egypt and other American sponsored torture chambers? Ever heard of waterboarding a techniques used by the CIA to torture suspects. Pls lets be objective !! torture is bad and all sides are guilty of it.

Did u say Abu ghuriab picture were false? Take a look at this. Wiki of course is no authority but how come the 2 soldiers were sentenced to 10 yrs if the pic were false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse
Its either you are the liar or the US govt falsely sentenced these 2 soldiers

davidylan:
The Iraq war was not about WMD's only . . . they simply used that as a ploy to get the blessings of the UN. The real issue was Saddam's financial support to terrorists including those involved in 9-11.

Great Nairalanders Davidylan says arabs have a penchant for lying and now he says The US were deceitful or should i say lied to get UN blessings. By the way Kofi Annan on the eve of Donald Rumsfeld “shock and awe” called the war illegitimate as Iraq was a sovereign state.

davidylan:
The real issue was Saddam's financial support to terrorists including those involved in 9-11.

DAVIDYLAN I don’t know where you get your information from but ur comment is as deluded as I cant think of. 19 attackers were sponsored by Bin Laden, all the finances went through Khalid Sheikh now in Guantanamo. Bin Laden hates Saddam and volunteered to the Saudi royal family in 1990 to stop Saddam from invading Saudi Arabia in order for them no to accept US forces. There is absolutely no link between Saddam and 9/11. DAVID please produce this evidence please in the name of GOD produce this financial links to 9/11 terrorist. The evidence Bush and Blair tried hard to concote but couldn’t produce u seem to have, the evidence Collin Powell couldn’t take to the UN u seem to have under ur pillow? Saddam was a Baathist not religious in his hey days at all, Tariq azeez his vice was an Arab Christian a catholic . Kai Davidylan and u say arab a liars!!!!

davidylan:
Why shld Bush and Blair be tried for trying to get rid of a tyrant? the war ended within 6 weeks . . . the problem it has prolonged till now is because arabs have a predilection for death and violence.

Now i know you never had acess to the media in 2002. A time when I was a member of the anti war coalition and we were travelling all around the UK campaigning aginst this war you were roaming the streets of Abeokuta with no access to the media like u confirmed otherwise you wouldn’t say the reason for the war was getting rid of saddam. I think Bush travelled to Abeokuta to tell u personally WMD was a ploy to get rid of saddam and saddam had financial links to 9/11. See u here accusing Martha of propangada. Can you pls show the great people of NL the evidence to support ur claims?

This anti war coaliton in conjuction with great minds like the former mayor on london Ken Livingstone, MP Tony Ben, the indefaitguable Indefatigable Goerge Galloway campaigned and protested all to know avail. The climax rally in feb 03 at hyde park and I was present amongst 2 million people protesting yet Tony Blair stuck to his guns and now regrets. I still practise what I believe in perhaps if u feel so strong in support of the US invasion why not join the US army a rather than sit here and tell us garbage!!

Let me not forget Claire short and Foreign secretary the Late Robin Cook who resigned their appointment in Blairs cabinet in protest of the war. All these names i mention are not muslims so lets leave religion out of this!! Even Obama campaigned against the war in 2003 and his speech in 2004 highleghted arab americans plight and your here passing racist comment!


You talk tyranny!! Is Mubarak of Egypt not a tyrant like Saddam? Or is Ghadaffi not a tyrant why does US romance with these rulers. Musharaf of Pakistan was a general yet US romanced with him pls give me a break from this hypocrisy and double sidedness. When did a country have the right to invade another country because the ruler is a tyrant David can you please tell me from the UN charter where that right /law is?

Rather than accept like the US govt has that Iraq was an intelligence failure u are here trying to concot lies!!! The great folks on NL are too enlightened for your piece of garbage!!!

@PLC group

Ssssshhhhh

Pls stop this nonsense!!! Why are u insulting the gentleman. Debate the topic at hand.

For Nigeria to move foward we have to stop this attitude to one another

"Hausa goat" !!! man Our nation is full of Racist individuals. Otherwise why say such a thing!!!

How do we progress when people put the crimes of a few on a whole tribe and ethnicity?

@Banom

Here we go again!! Earlier I set a post enlightening you about Islam and Nigeria. Now you are talking ill of the quran and then you say you don’t have problem with muslims but it is hausas you have problems with. I don’t understand your argument again.

Miss World!!!! Is this a development? A game where women are shamelessly asked to parade themselves like cows for sale and some silly male judges decide the most beautiful one!! This is the most demeaning thing to the women folk in my opinion.

Perhaps you would like to know what the women rights group think of beauty pageant, they campaign against it.

The same way Chris anyaoku was commonwealth leader was the same way Rilwanu Luqman was the OPEC sec general. Nigeria perm rep to the UN Ambassador zulu Gambari is the un envoy and chief negotiator of many conflicts round the world like myanmer and also in south America.

Our northern brother don’t really relocate outside Nigeria perhaps that’s one of the reasons u don’t here of them abroad.

Aproko51:
@Lagosboy. You Lagos people think you know too much. You think anyone will be intimidated by you?
This country does not belong to you alone or to any one set of people.

I dont think I am intimidating anybody I am just presenting the facts as i know it and trying to enligghten whover needs enlightement.

You are right though concerning we have to live together and thats what I stand for!! No to Tribalism!!! No to Inciting religous hatred!! Lets work together for the development of our beloved country

mikeansy:
legend of what

That a distinguished journalist who has risen as much as to be allowed into Presidential press conference can not control himself tells you a lot about the arab world and self control.

A good man you dine with can simply go to bed and wake up the next morning as a terrorist

The man used what he could get past security, if he could take a bomb in . . . . the story would have been different.

What a way racist comment!!! “Arabs and self control” Does self control have a tribe or race .You talk like someone who lack exposure. 19 men attacked the US if Bush had self control why not go after Bin Laden alone why carpet bomb a whole country and like Rumsfeld said “Bomb them to stone age”

You talk of self control !! What would you do to the person that made you an orphan ? or killed your children Laugh and dine with him? Perhaps if u are the mother of  a US soldier killed in Iraq for nothing you wouldn’t be talking of self control!!
There is no self control in matters regarding life and death please be real!!!! This gentleman represents thousands of Iraqi orphans and widows who have no means of expressing their views.

Have u ever heard of Abu ghuraib prison pictures!!! Perhaps if it was your relative forced into homosexual acts and naked pictures taken u wouldn’t be talking of self control!!!

Jos crisis in Nigeria people here on NL have said Hausas should all be killed, muslims are this muslims are fanatic where is the self control!!!

You think if a dead american soldiers mum against the war had the same opportunity she wouldnt bite his nose off?

Naijex:
@Muza
You this Mallo guy, now i see your brain is under your feet, if  this disgruntle journalist is a legend to you.

Can u encourage someone to disrespect your president in that manner.
Ode, the war no start no fin. crisis. What's wall street got to do iraqi war.

financial crisis started because of the deregulation of the market.

I think we should learn to treat each other with self respect what is the meaning of u this "mallo guy". U might disagree with him but in no way should you insult him maybe this was the self control mikeansy was talking about!!

Alam-Tara:
@banom I know how you feel. But I would like you to take this thing objectively.Other Northerners who have contributed alot to the development of the Nigerian Society include
1) Sir Ahmadu Bello.
2) Abubakar Gumi He translated the Holy Qur'an into Hausa.

Banom it is politicians who cause wars and other societal problems not the pure religions.

IF U KNEW THIS THEN WHY THIS USELESS POST. YOUR JUST FORMENTING TROUBLE WITH THIS POST.

@Banom

i dont know if u lived in Lagos in the late 90s but one of the best govs Lagos ever had was Brig Buba Marwa a northerner from Adamawa state.

Like i said to you OBJ is from the southwest my tribe and i am not shy to say he his d most useless president Nigeria ever had. No infrastrucutre to reflect the billions Nigeria made frm Oil. now oil prices have dropped we re back to ground zero!!!

@PLC group and Muza

It is a shame this exchange of unpleasant and filthy words. Your both parents laboured hard for you and you shouldnt be insulting them.

@PLC group curroption knows no tribe or ethnicity. IBB is a thief no doubt and OBJis a thief no doubt . The Niger delta govs were all big thieves Ibori, Odili and Alamco . The nothern governors were thieves Turaki, Dariye, Nyame, Markafi and co

The south western govs as well cannot be left out.

Lets argue free from bias and tribalistic sentiments!!! Tribalism would lead us no where!! Lets come together and fight curruption and fight for good governance rather than castigating one another.

Our northern brothers are more than just "almajiri" pls treat them with respect.

Intelligent people treat each other with respect!! even u have to respect ur enemy to know how well to get rid of him!!

Its a pain Nigerians are more racist than the White man!!!!!!

@OLAADEGBU

I think you suffereing from what we call dogmatic indoctrination or should i say Classical conditioning or better still brainwashing. You are making reference to the quran and you copied and pasted some piece of jargon on the other section concerning DECEPTION and ALLAH. U have no knowledge of Arabic whatsoever and you allowed some trash u read on the net convince you without scrutiny. I am s student of Arabic and I can tell u Makr means to plan or to plot. A verse saying “the disbelievers are planning so as well God is planning and God is the best of all planners” u misinterpreted to deception can u show me any translation of the quran with those words deception?

Back to this topic u claim Islam doesn’t preach peace perhaps if you looked back history u would find that the only places where the jews found peace was in muslim enclaves, The jews and muslims lived in Palestine peacefully until The British created the state of isreal in 1948. Just like Africa wherever they drew their maps they left troubles. The prophet of Islam PBUH lived side by side jews and Christians in Medina and had peace covenants with them. Perhaps it would interesting to go study and see how many jews live in Iran and how happy they are. Even ahmedijad met with some jewish Rabbis.

The Jos crisis was a two way thing and muslims were killed as well. OLADEGBU did Christians kill any muslim as well in Jos ? perhaps if you could answer this question the case would be settled.

The killing of innocents anywhere is a crime!!! The jos crises was a political and tribal riot turned into a religious one!!

@poster stop being myopic in thinking

The best and acceptable way is to burn them. You probably have to go elsewhere to a place where you could burn them.

Throwing them in a garbage is frowned upon in Islam.

Bastage:
So that's alright then. We can forgive Islam because of this news report.

Islam is not begging for forgiveness from anyone and doesnt need to be forgiven.

If all you want is condemnation of terrorist acts then there would be no solution to terrorism. People fail to remember that the solution to a problem is to look at its root causes.

How many Nigerian Christians come out to condemn the atrocities of the state of isreal and the mass punishment they met out to the civilians of Palestine. How many Nigerian Christians or people like you come out to condemn the use of cluster bombs in Afghanistan and Iraq? You lots accuse muslims of terror yet the only country to have used nuclear weapons in the world remains a Christian country US. Innocents civilians of Nagasaki and Hiroshima are still suffereing till today.

Let us not forget code orange. The use of chemical weapons in Vietnam I still saw horrible and ugly children been born without eyes, some without legs , some without arms due to this inhuman and evil acts by the US. This children are still been born 40 yrs after the war!!! just google it and see for yourself.

The solution to terrorism is addressing its root cause and not begging and asking for condemnation. Muslims shouldn’t be apologetics and rise tall above intimidation and pressure. We know there is extremism within islam like there is within any other faith and it is been addressed but the evil Bush did not help matters. Just when scholars were advising muslims against extremism after 9/11 and getting results the idiot went to Iraq so how do u explain to a muslims its not a war aginst islam but a war against terror when Iraq had no connection to 9/11.

Bush is responsible for fuelling terrorism and lets hope Obama would be intelligent enough not to be one sided although i doubt it with his new assembled security and foreign poliy team.

Several thousands innocent lives have been lost and the shoe thrown at the evil man sums it all up. This Bush even claims to be born again and he his adored by the right wing evangelicals in the US. What a shame!!!!

Although I am not a Christian I am quite familiar with the bible been from a family of many Christians, attended a more or less Christian school and studied the bible in great detail myself. I could be corrected but I don’t think there is any verse specifically in the bible prohibiting polygamy as many prophets of God practised polygamy. The only verse I can remember is something like “the husband and the wife shall be one” this doesn’t actually mean a man can only marry one wife but stressing the unity in thinking and understanding between a man and his wife.

I think the reverend is wrong for doing this as he has more or less caused problems and discord in a family or how do we explain a wife of 38 years now been regarded as not a wife. If there was unity in these family before the reverend has disunited the family by his actions sometimes we just need to apply wisdom and not literally interpret texts.

Polygamy within limits and practised with human fairness is the solution to adultery for a man who has a high drive and cant hold it btw his pants. Islam sets a limit of 4 and if you exceed this you are just a dog who would go after anything in skirts.

It is a shame that many people preach one man one wife and this same people have tens of girlfriends outside and commit adultery like shit. Wouldn’t a woman be happy if she knew where her husband was when he his not with her rather than not know the hundreds of girls he sleeps with outside then when he dies diff women starts to pop up with kids claiming a share in his estate!!!

Jakumo:
Pastor Eunuch and his class of bible-thumping snake-oil salesmen hoard obscene wealth by offering bogus promises of great riches IN HEAVEN to gullible and desperate poor people, while simultaneously tricking them into handing over what little cash they have HERE ON EARTH, so that the pastor and his obese family can finance a lavish jet-set life-style,  "in the name of God", as usually claimed by most Nigerian scam artists.

More significantly, the Redeemed Fleecing Ground, operated by this shameless con-man, has become one of the deadliest obstacles to free passage along the Lagos to Ibadan Expressway, NIGERIA'S MAIN ECONOMIC ARTERY, and for that unpardonable crime of causing serial vehicular manslaughter, this fraudster in clergy robes would be jailed or at least forcibly relocated in a REAL democracy, which MAYBE Nigeria will approximate at some point in a few generations' time from now.

Personally I would rather wipe my ass with whatever disposable cash I have, and flush it down the toilet, than I would insult my intelligence by handing that money over to some hysterically screaming trickster who CLAIMS  he has a back-stage pass to heaven.   Pastor Eunuch and his ilk can kiss my crusty anus till I bark like a demented coyote.  

Ranting Reverend Eunuch's continued RIGHT to block Nigeria's most strategically important highway for ten hours at a time, EVERY PHUCKING MONTH OF EVERY YEAR for the past two decades, with the parked and parking cars of his followers,  runs contrary to the essencial principle of the Separation of  Church and State, to which all true SECULAR democracies MUST subscribe as a matter of federal policy, if they do not wish to be reclassified by the international community as de-facto theocracies, which equates with assured religious implosion in the case of Nigeria, as shown by recent history.

Yo! Eunuch! Your right to block the highway ends where every one else's right of unhindered passage begins, and no marathon of shouted scripture quotations can conceal your status as a willing, unrepentant destroyer of innocent lives in needless traffic accidents on a FEDERAL highway that you repeatedly make your own at will.  Shame on you for this sin among many others that derive from your epic greed, which feeds on the blood of innocent motorists.   Your continued impunity from criminal or civil prosecution is a modern African tragedy, and a telling indictment against Nigeria's claim to genuine democracy.

Harsh but true talk!!! this expressway is menace for people travelling through that route. I remember my dad spent 18 hrs in that traffic once!!!. In as much as RCCg has the right to host any event i think the rights of Others to use that road has to be respected. Otherwise the proceeds from offering collections has to be used in the road maintenance.

I personally felt terrible that during the height of the third term agenda and the nations was boiling with. Pastor Adeboye kept his mouth shut!! The Nigerian populace were screaming no 3rd term but rather than the pastor lend his voice to the people by calling OBJ to order he kept silence.

“Those who keep silent/neautral in the time of crisis should be reserved the hottest part of hell” – Dante said (not lagosboy)

davidylan:
this thread was also posted on the Politics section where i did justice to it. I can't post in 20 places at once.
So what Lagosboy knows me? tons of people can make that claim . . . if he isnt a coward why has he refused to remove his mask?

He states "what" points?

What is there to deny? I stand by my convictions, the actions of a faceless coward wont change that. It doesnt matter if he was there when my mother was delivering me.

The issue at stake is what i stated in the politcs section "Islam should be outlawed" and you did apologise sincerely to all muslims and that was good.

For u saying again u stand by your convictions is not warranted everyone one is convinced about something. You are convinced of your faith which is good and others are about thier faith which is good. All i am saying is excercising maturity and intelligence in analysing these issues and not going to the extreme of blanket castigation of a faith or its adherents. What do we gain by religous attacks, your inflamatory remarks which fuels dissent and hatred. You mentioned what did muslims due to condemn 9/11 and i tell u thousands of muslims scolars condemned the actions and some condoned it. Pakistan gave the US its airbase to launch attack on aghanistan.

Kuwait,qatar Bahrain all gave US its land to launch attacks aginst Iraq although i am strongly against the war that is just to let u be aware we should argue with facts.

U said what did muslims do abt 7/7 i tell u the father of one of the alleged bomber on 21/7 rang the police to inform them it was his son and tips on whereabouts. If the British authorities think the way you think and put the sins of a few on the whole community then the country would be hostile to all muslims.

You call me a faceless coward but i i duly informed you i would mail you to know the person if you cant guess right . On this forum lets discuss the issues i raised and not digress.

Lets free ourselves from emotional blindess and anylyse issues with hinesty free of bias.

@ Banum just to also inform you that the past AREWA CONSULTATIVE FORUM head was a christian from the north. Late Chief Sunday Awoniyi. Free yourself from the bondage of tribalism

elmagnific:
As an educated Arewa guy i am too enlightened to to stoop to cheap bigotry and might i daresay "racism" showon by a lot of posters in the Politics borad of NL.

We all have problems and a very serious one at that, we just judge poeple becuase of their ethnicity and religion. The earlier you become enlightened to the fact that we are in thesame country and no matter what we gotta live with each other the better for all of us, Its crass comments and opinions such as those posted on this site that when expressed in real life situation ends up in creating religious cirsis with people young and old dying needlessly becuase of something they didn't do. Most of the poeple here don't have any real life experience of what it feels like to be in a war-like situation with poeple going to burn their neighbour's houses, they just talk without thinking of the consequence of the utterances, I am talking from real life expreince here, i live i jos and believe you me i have seen civilian killing his neighbour, mosques and churches razed to the ground, my house was set ablaze while we were inside but with god's grace we escaped, please my whole point is that granted this is a forum for discussion, and everyone has a right to a say but please lets endeavour and make informed comments and try as much as possible not to encourage ethno-religious hatred or sentiments, its not going to benefit you or me or our children and their children to come, please lets all be matured and talk like educated people and debate objectively.and by tat i mean if i don't have any knowledge on the topic of discussion then i will quietly reserve my comments so that i don't end up looking like a fool,

GOD BLESS NIGERIA
And may our leaders stop decieving us and leading us to killing each other

True talk!!! this has been my message its a shame there are loads of ethno religious bigots on NL

banom:
who cares how any one may feel, lets present facts and leave all these naive way of answering simple question,

The simple answer is christians, that is if nigeria as a society have seen any achievement at all,

Islams are useless to this country, can any one tell me one positive impact they have made to this country,
what ?
1, They behead there fellow nigerians head,( jihad)
2,shading of blood, ( jos crisis)
3, corrupt and unproductive leaders who take power through coup de tat, ( IBB)
4, looters ( Abacha)
5, Tribalisn and nepotism , decieving other Nigerians in the name of ONE NIGERIA,
6, neglet and and marginalisation of the Niger Deltans,
7, I don't even need to mention how many people they killed during the Biafran war,
8, many more other evils,
What other contribution did they make to Nigeria?,

Truely, if this usless Hausa Islams are not part of Nigeria,this country would have gone very far and well advanced

@Banom
I never wanted to teply this post but i thought i might help you by responding because i am sorry to say u sound like an educated illiterate who is drowning in the ocean of ignorance.

Let me respond to your numbered point:
1. Lets have references for these beheadings of yours.
2. Jos crisis is a political crises and christians died as well as muslims.
http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/news/national/2008/dec/03/national-03-12-2008-001.htm
Above is a link to show you an example of killings on both sides. This paper is owned by a fellow Igbo man so you cant cry its a tribal paper and anti biafra
3. Coup detat? It would be interesting to note that the first coup in nigeria was led by an igbo officer Major Kaduna Nzeogwu ( A bright mind Nigeria lost!!). The southern Niger has equally produced unproductive leaders like OBJ and it Yakubu Gowon is a christian from the North. The North is a mix of muslims and christians and it is not Hausa tribe that exists there.

You talked about IBB funny that his chief spokesman and minister for information who defended the regime was an igbo man Chukwumerije

4. Did you mention looters? Ignorance is a desease otherwise you would be aware looting has no tribe or ethnicity

5. In as much as i accept the underdevelopment of theNiger deltans how do u blame it on muslims!!! Ibori and Odili recieved 12-13 billion naira monthly for like 7 yrs what is there to show for it in Delta and rivers state

6. Biafra war was led by Benjamin Adekunle and OBJ both were yoruba christian officers!! how do u blame it on muslims!!!

7 many other evils!!!!!! U couldnt mention the evils.

Banum i think u need to be aware there at about 18 million muslims living in the southwest of Nigeria Islam is not a northern nigeria religion. Wake up from your tribalism and expand your thinking and horizon. Learn more and study history with an objective mind. Analyse issues with intellect and not your blinded emotions!!!!

I think this message should be under the religous section because its relating to religion but the moderator moved it here.

@game_rod

I am no coward i just felt putting his name there was an error and everyone here is entitled to anonymity so I shouldnt deny him that and I never put his surname there.

@dayokanu

Terrorism is faced not only by Christians but by the entire world population. Pakistan has experienced hundred of terrorism attacks in the last year. Bhutto was killed and several Muslims have been killed in Muslim countries Jordan , Saudi Arabia etc. There are several militants in Saudi prisons, Egyptian prisons and Yemeni prisons. The way to tackle the problem in our midst is through ideological and intelectuall means and not through mere protests. Several Muslim scholars tackle this issue within our midst. I live in the UK and I knw all the good work we do in conjuction with local councils to confront extremism in our midst.

@davidylan
Jesus and Moses are beloved and sacred in Islam and I challenge you to produce any attack by any Muslim against this noble prophets. It is our duty to defend them and all prophets when evil things are said abt them. I repeat the defence should not be unlawful.

Folks dont misunderstand my post but try to understand the main message I am preaching against is d spread of hate messages.

@dayokanu
Again if u said some Muslims are hypocritical I wouldn't mind but for u to say ISLAM IS HYPOCRITICAL means u are saying the 1.2  billion Muslims are bunch of hypocrites which I would object to. We talk of exremism of Muslims and on the other hand go extreme in castigating all Muslims and this is what I am talking against.

@yemmyse

I have not icited anyone to him i was just demonstrating to him that I knew him. I have not seen or had his contact for ard 11 years so this is no blackmail.

If you read it well i stated my grudge and expressed what statement stepped over the boundaries of political or religous debate which is "islam should be outlawed"

Davidylan has apologised to all muslims for that statement and I personally accept it and lets move on. This is a good sign that at least an error could be brought to ones attention and he accepted. I am impressed by it and to all muslims on NL Read Davidylan's comment below.

davidylan:
Lagosboy . . you've said nothing new i repeat.

If the statement i made hurt u i sincerely apologise to all muslims. The comment was not meant to be taken seriously as i expect we are all aware this is the internet anyway.

I come across comments like "God no get bosom" everyday . . . and no one throws tantrums. The question i ask is "why are muslims so sensitive to everything under the sun"? Can someone be bold enough to kindly provide a salient answer?

Muslims are sensitive to this because it is a religious obligation for muslims to defend the honour of God and all his prophets. They would be sensitive to it as well if ill things were said of Jesus or Moses. This doesnt neccessarily mean voilence. an example is what i have done here is raise objection.

That is one of the differences in faiths, some faith might not take offence but other faiths would do and they have a right it should be respected. As long as the defence is not in an illegal and unlawful manner.

Diversity is interesting and we Nigerians especially our generation should all work towards Unity in diversity and shed tribalism and religious extremism.

Concerning I havent said anything new. Of course there is nothing new under the sun and whatever i have said is just a reminder and bringing to your attention what u might have overlooked. We are all humans and Islam we are taught the Quran is a reminder. So all i have done is to remind and explain facts you probably know.

peace

@papabrowne

I did not trail him bad its just a simple internet search and that was all. I dont live in Nigeria either!! Saying islam should be outlawed is not criticising bad muslims but 1.2 billion muslims. I hope u see d difference.