₦airaland Forum

nairalanda1:
It is also due to the fact that crude oil prices are never where we want them to be

Like now, most of our borrowing was due to the fact that crude oil prices was way below the benchmark for the budget

Then there is the fiscal break even price , the price oil must reach before we can have a balanced budget. For Nigeria, based on our oil production level, it's 150 dollars per barrel.

Above is why I don't rate this government and past governments as good. They have been shouting at Nigeria that we need to diversify our economy, they no hear

What is not diversified enough is federal government revenue source. The economy as a whole is diversified as it is but not industrialized enough.

goldmatrix:
Abeg value added tax is based on consumption and service delivery and NOT PRODUCTIVITY. Do you know how much is VAT on each state allocation only? That's why South-South and South - West look like that.

South-East is not more on spending but re-circulating with small and medium scale economy.

Somebody bought raw materials one thousand naira and sold final product at 50k and you say it is not productivity?

inoki247:
The people paying the high tax haven't had any reason to move to the one that pay lower.


So why're you crying on there behalf....


With the lower tax people should be migrating in droves to the state that pay lower instead reverse is the case...


And if truly the states that pays lower are doing a business turn over of 100m yearly they will still pay the tax..

You can't do 100m yearly and you calling that progressing and try to compare yourself with someone who makes the number easily...



If truly is by lower tax SE should be filled up right now and not the other way.round...

How do you determine filled up? A region that is around the size of Oyo state but containing around 20 million people is filled up by Oyo state standards.

What is the government's power?

The government's power is that it can throw money at anything. Be it infrastructure, policy, scientific research, investments and etc. The government can use money to solve problems.

This is why the most important activity of government is to secure revenue for itself. A government without revenue is a powerless government. It is a very hampered government.

A government can make an investment decision for other reasons apart from profits. Individual investors or entrepreneurs can not do that.

Get the revenue first because that is the first step in securing space for the people you lead

It is organization via taxes that makes a country rich


No country can make all it's citizens high net worth individuals. All what a government can do is to take a large percentage of the GDP to solve problems that are common to all like education, health, infrastructure and etc and also help the economy by supporting the entrepreneurs.

For a country to become rich, all hands must be joined together via taxes. The tax to GDP ratio must be high. The higher the better. So far all income is being taxed, it will be like no income is taxed because the market will adjust or shift to cover all inadequacies or lapses. What is important is to make sure the minimum wage can bear high tax.

The government must support production and innovation. Most big companies in places like Japan and the USA rose by government support. Support for production is however not enough to fight poverty. You can have capacity in everything as a country and still be afflicted by mass poverty. The only way to solve mass poverty as a nation is to have a high tax to GDP ratio that will make a high revenue per Capita possible. The revenue will then be used to raise HDI and increase production by industrialization.

Production is not enough. There is a need for guaranteed high wages too and also a guaranteed high government revenue

If you are being incarnated on Earth to do something very important. Your marriage would have probably being sealed before you were born.

If you just came to Earth because your spirit food is almost finished then that may not be necessary.

The best persons to marry

Someone that disagreed with you to point you to a new beginning

Someone that complained against a lack you are experiencing

Gajagojo:
These are not per capita figures

They do not buttress your claim

You know the population of NW to SE. It is 3 to 1. You can calculate the per Capita VAT and it will show you the SE is higher than the NW.

profmallor:
NO on that one, I disagree. Igbos spend! They spend well. They take good care of themselves and contribute meaningfully to the economic growth of where they live. I mean, I have Igbo friends who went to the SE, built massive mansions and that's it, they only visit occasionally, no one rents the apartments, no economic activity, yet yearly they pay huge rents in Lagos, send their kids to good schools, fuel their cars and madams' cars, run businesses all of which contribute to economic activity. Hausas are more conservative and modest in nature, and so dont necessary spend that much.

So they won't eat, pay rent, school fees, transport and etc? They also have their own big men. The biggest private employer in the SW is a Hausa man. The amount spent per annum by each group will be proportional to the population

Gajagojo:
This is a claim
Quote the figures for both regions

S5op making baseless claims based on your wishful thinking

These are the figures for one quarter.

profmallor:
So traders, manufacturers, transporters, artisans, and small business owners don't exist in other regions, right?. Continue to deceive yourself. The keyword is volume and an enabling environment: the other regions generate more Revenue, and in turn VAT is generated by the volume of economic activity, of which Ndigbo contributes heavily to the thriving nature of other regions. There is no way you flip it, turn it right, left, upside down, one fact remains, Ndigbo thrives well outside of the SE, if not better.

Ultimately, it is to do with population. Igbos are not spending more money than Hausa in Yoruba land. They are not higher in population.

Gajagojo:
This is a claim
Quote the figures for both regions

S5op making baseless claims based on your wishful thinking

Post your own figures to disprove my claim. The NW from the data I saw, paid just over double the VAT paid by the SE and they have triple the population.

nairalanda1:
True but at the end, our fiscal breakeven is 150 dollars per barrel and 70 dollars is not going to help much. Plus we got to still pay debts.

No they made the current budget with a benchmark of just over 60 dollars

CandidSeeker:
Very sad that the white man has to decide how much we will by oil that God has put freely in the ground under our homes like well water.

One day they may decide how much we will sell garri that we make from our own cassava too.

It is the market not the white man.

You can't expect a fixed price in a deregulated market but the naira that is appreciating will help

On a per Capita basis, the SE is still paying more VAT than the NW. It just looks as if they are not paying because they have a high number of states for a low population

timbabng:
I think you are mixing it up. Tax on Value added production is removed from what's remitted to the FIRS.

If you bought raw materials for N1000 and paid N75 VAT.
You used the raw materials to make a product of N3000 that you eventually sold.

The VAT on that N3000 is N225 but you will remove your initial N75 VAT and remit only N150 to the government.

You have by yourself explained it. Do you agree now that a company that pays VAT has substantially increased the GDP of it's location?. If you pay 70 billion in VAT you must have increased the GDP by one trillion

Eriokanmi:
Ibos in the south west are pretty much, especially in lagos.they're over 5m in population. Yorubas are scanty in the east. We're only much in the north and ibos are there too. I'm very close to them. As a matter of fact my wife just returned from Imo today though shes also yoruba. Since I've been going there, I rarely see a yoruba man or woman and that's not to say they're no Yorubas resident there,maybe civil servants. The day I saw my sister selling agbo in ihiala, I felt at home cos I didn't let her go. I told her I sighted my tribeswoman today and she started laughing.

Come to lagos. Hardly would you see a street where ibos aren't resident or own a shop. These people contribute to the VAT from our region. Its not same scenario in the east. Should they go to their region to live and develop there, they'd generate much more revenues. Imagine moving the hqs of the likes of Diamond bank, UBA, Zenith, Fidelity etc to the east and their staff follow them. Im not talking of the likes of Emzor, Elbe,Orange Drugs, nestoil, oilserv etc. Move the entire alaba and ladipo autoparts, building materials market at odunade/coker to Anambra and we go there to buy from them. They'd come second with ease. South south only has oil and non oil revenues far surpass what Nigeria get from oil.

While we will maintain the lead, they'd come second and closely. Even the apapa wharf are under their control in terms of importation.

The SE can't come second even if they all return home. They are not the only ones scattered across Nigeria. They will still come last. In Ilesa, there are people from all over the country. The rural areas have more Benue people in farms than Igbos not to talk of other people
If there are 5 million Igbos in Lagos there will be 5 million Hausas and other Nigerians will be more than 7 million leaving the Yoruba with maybe 5 or 6 million. I don't think that is the demographic structure of Lagos. Do you now think the SE have more indigenes than any zone? If not how can they come second? Are other people not working and doing business?

timbabng:
VAT is a consumption tax, so the final consumer bears the cost. Companies act as VAT agents for FIRS.

When a company sells goods or services, charges 7.5% VAT on its invoice, Customer pays price + VAT, Company remits the VAT to FIRS.

The company pays their own VAT only when they purchase things too.

I know the consumer pays but how can the producer be sure of the location of consumption?. Then VAT measures value added production and you have to credit that one to the location of the producer. If you turn ten naira to one million by value addition it will mean you pay high VAT. Who do you credit that to if not the producer?

givedemwotowoto:
The disagreement here is not whether consumption matters. Nobody said that. Of course it does.

The problem here is the idea that low VAT equals low economic contribution - which necessitated this thread, or that production that doesn’t immediately show up as consumption “is not creating wealth.”

South Easterners live all over the country and operate production, importation, distribution, and retail channels from Aba and Onitsha to Kano and Lagos.

Also, your claim that production stalls unless it is locally consumed is false. Production can be sustained through exports, inter-regional trade, or subsistence consumption - all of which reduce unemployment and create value without necessarily increasing local VAT.

I don't know what all the debate is about. The SE is less than ten percent of the population and the GDP expected from there should be around that percentage. If it is more, it means they are pulling more than their weight

timbabng:
Correction. VAT contribution by state is calculated based on place of consumption/economic activity, not origin of production. It is not calculated by where the company’s head office is, but mainly by where the transaction happens.

For example: A bank headquartered in Lagos.
- Customer uses the service in Kano
- VAT is credited to Kano, not Lagos

Your statement on Igbo population in Lagos adding to Lagos VAT is correct, but a huge percentage of the VAT generated goes to the states that did not contribute as much. e.g. South East States and the other regions.

Which means, Igbo people in Lagos are indirectly contributing to their region.

So, it's a win win for everyone. There's no need to be emotional about it.

That's why Nigeria is better together if properly managed.

VAT is paid by companies. So how do the companies determine location of consumption?

inoki247:
Lol with how you guys always attribute ehn Economic hub, the biggest market in West Africa...


So in one word all the big this and that are just big for nothing without adding anything to the purse...


If truly you guys are the economic hub and the biggest market in West Africa it will show on your Vat cause you can't be the biggest and be selling and Govt won't take out of it....

Actually VAT is only paid by companies that add value. It is not paid by traders

How many people are living in the SE for the zone to have high figures? NIN data says they are 80 percent of Lagos state. This means they are less than twenty million if Lagos is 23 million. Revenue can only be high if population is high.

Eriokanmi:
What a wise submission. I'm also from same region. Those posting the news repeatedly know what they're doing. They're the same sycophantic beings we've been talking about . Our region houses the corporates HQs of many establishments. That's not all, those contributors aren't all from our region. You can imagine the ibos who are leading in pharmaceuticals,hospitality,banking, transportation, aviation, etc all move their corporate hqs to the south east, what would you think would have happened? Unfortunately,they dont know how much they're harming their region economically by citing industries outside their domain. We won't do that as a people. They could have come 2nd after the south west but the entire SW revenue would be reduced to half. With this move, their region would have received much more allocation than what's seen on the newspost

If 3 million Igbos are in the SW, there will be over one million Yorubas in the SE. SE can't come second after the SW. It is to do with population. There is no zone that is not significantly higher than the SE in population. Even in the 19th century it would have been so

Islander23:
The population under the kingship of Lagos should be in hundreds of thousand because we have various clans that dominated the settlement &as a matter of facts some present day kings were bales before been upgraded to kings & their domain was under the tutelage of Eleko as you rightly called it

Lagos state was created after independence. The other Obas in Lagos whose lands were added to Lagos state don't owe traditional allegiance to the Eleko just because the military government added their lands to Lagos state. The Ijebu in Lagos owe their allegiance to the Awujale. Anything the Eleko is heading in Lagos state is just ceremonial. His domain does not extend outside Lagos island

What is happening in Aba is proof that the claim that prospective investors in the power sector will not be able to recover their investment if they invest is false

Putinofrussia:
Says a parasite.
Anambra,Ogun,Ondo etc all have GDP in the range of 5 trillion,moreover gdp is dynamic,.
Without SW giving SE billions out of its VAT,SE is dead.

They can't have the same GDP. Ogun and Oyo together have almost the same population as the entire SE according to NIN data. Individually Ogun or Oyo is more than double the average SE state in population

Islander23:
I never said that Bro but Lagos island as the major seat of power dominated other sub towns...you should know that in any major invasion what comes to the mind of the invaders is to capture the seat of power...No doubt ikoyi was founded by the Oyos admittedly but yet to confirm it...My family also gained not by conquest but by being the first settlers of a high end part of Lagos

The Oba of Lagos or Eleko of Eko is the most popular Lagos King but I don't think his land contains up to one million people. It can't be up to five percent of Lagos land mass

honesttalk21:
Use same for your personal and professional development. Accepting Jesus as a messenger of God as he accepted all others is not in dispute but he was never a Christian and more likely neither are you.

Jews did not accept Jesus at all. They didn't reckon with him. They also do not believe in the virgin birth. This means they are not Christians. I am not a Christian of course. If I believe Jesus is a prophet, that he was born of a virgin, he resurrected and etc. It will mean I am a member of a Christian sect because there is nowhere else I could have gotten those beliefs

Islander23:
...oh my dear brother,I find this hard to believe...we have major sub tribes like the Aworis,Ijebus,Egbas,Igbominas.... Okie,lemme make understand those that discovered the island are the Ilajes due to their fishing activities but they did not settle down as residents,A former Lagos state governor"s ancestry is rooted in Ilaje

Are you now saying Lagos island owns the whole Lagos state? Ikoyi for example was established by Oyo.

Hankim:
Do you even know some parts of Lagos belong to Ewe people?

The post is about Lagos island not Lagos state

Islander23:
To be candid I don't know how about an Ijesha man being the founder of the town but Benin did invaded Lagos using the Uromi warriors...I think Wikipedia can be of help here.

The whole population of Lagos island when it was founded would be a few hundreds or much less. Nobody knew it would become big except maybe the priests who insisted it would become big. There was nothing to invade. The population of Lagos island in the 1890s after centuries of expansion was around 20k. Not everything on Wikipedia should be taken seriously

Christistruth00:
The Ilaje even drowned Oba Ehengbuda of Benin and his War entourage in Lagos
It was a very big disaster for Benin

It should be remembered they didn't see the Benin as aliens. They spoke the same language. I used ifa to determine what happened in the past and I got that the Ijesa went to Benin to secure palm oil contract with the Portuguese and they sealed it. The Owa who was a woman and the Oba of Benin secured land from the Awori and isale Eko was founded. IFA said the odu IFA they got at Benin for the new town was Ose Irosun and that the second one which is Ogunda Irete that Lagos island is now known for was gotten when they got there and it is less potent. That is my finding using ifa. The Ijesa priest that led them there is the progenitor of the current line of Kings. He wanted to return to Ijesa but they begged him to stay and built him a palace