₦airaland Forum

aariwa:
Na Yoruba go fight them? Or abi you Dey joke?

It is like people know what you don't know.
The Presidency was given to Yoruba in 99 for fear of civil war.
Babangida was forced out by Yoruba civilians. He handed over to Shonekan. Where has that ever happened in Africa?. War is not a new trade to the Yoruba. It may be new to some others.

honesttalk21:
Respecting someone does not mean you worship them. When referring to the dead and saying may they rest in peace is not considered worshipping them or is it?
Idolatry means praying to, making sacrifices for, or depending on someone or something as if they were divine. Muslims do none of these things with Muhammad pbuh; all worship goes to God alone. Calling Muhammad pbuh an idol doesn’t hold up because he has no divine powers, no prayers are directed to him, and worshiping him is clearly forbidden.

Orishas are called upon, asked for help, and spiritually relied on. That kind of devotion is worship, even if it’s described as honoring ancestors. Islam rejects using any middlemen in religion and Christianity views Jesus as divine. Islam makes it clear that Muhammad pbuh is not divine.

Islam is not a branch of Christianity. It rejects key Christian ideas. Having some of the same figures doesn’t mean the religions are the same. The truth about these figures is retained.

Idolatry can be in many forms. Would you say attacking and killing people for insulting Mohammed is not idolizing Mohammed?. When you place anybody on a superhuman pedestal, that is quintessential idolatry. Any excessive reverence for a human being especially a dead one is classified as worship.
Mohammed is a middle man. He is the only one through whom God speaks and God can't even change his opinion anymore unless he sees Mohammed. Mohammed is a middle man to God for Muslims. There is no middle man like him in any other spiritual practice.

Islam rejecting key Christian ideas does not mean it is not a branch of Christianity. It accepts the core and that is enough. Jews don't accept that core and they are not Christians. There are branches of Islam that differ in what they believe fundamentally yet are still called Muslims.

I don't have religion. I believe in God like my ancestors. I detest both Christians and Muslims. To me it is not civilized to fight over God, hate people over God, try to convert people or think God is burning people for unbelief. I don't see the founders of religion as civilized people. They are barbarians to me

honesttalk21:
Everything said here is wrong. Muslims don't worship Muhammad peace of Allah be upon him; they pray to God alone. Sending blessings for the Prophet isn't the same as worshiping him, just like respecting prophets doesn't mean turning them into gods. The fact that Muhammad pbuh was the last messenger is about humans, not God while the revelations ended, God continues. Islam rejects key Christian beliefs like the Trinity and Jesus being divine, so it isn't a branch of Christianity any more than Christianity is just a form of Judaism. Sharing some important figures doesn't mean sharing the same beliefs, and history of persecution doesn't prove which religion is true.

You see how you have proved the fact that Islam didn't branch off from Christianity as you make no further false claim of it being an errant sect of Christianity.

Then who are the idols or gods then? Orisas in Yoruba are our ancestors and we Revere them. You castigate us as idol worshippers while you do the same 100 times with Mohammed. Mohammed to Muslims is something no other human being can become as last prophet. That is more than an idol. Anybody can be an orisa in Yoruba culture so far you contribute to civilization. It is open to all but nobody can aspire to be like Mohammed. Which is worse? Mohammed is an idol. I hope you agree. A big idol.

If you revere Jesus and believe in his virgin birth, resurrection etc then you are a Christian. Islam is no different from JW, Mormon church and etc. Their founders were converted just like Mohammed. Who convinced Mohammed? Definitely not Jews. It was Christians. He then added his own stuff, made himself the last prophet and etc just like Mormon church, JW and etc all have founders or last Prophets.

Protestantism is an errant form of Catholicism. Islam is an errant form of Christianity. Christianity was an errant form of Judaism. This is an academic conclusion

Would you agree that Ogun, Osun, Obatala and etc are not gods? Will you say reverencing them is not idolatry? All we do that you fight us over is reverence them

MaxInDHouse:
You are the one segregating them but in real sense whatever doesn't come from a person's perspective but inculcated is the same as RELIGION it's the number of adherents that makes a difference.

Ifa/Orunmila is handwork gotten via knowhow. It is not the same as religion. They have clients and not adherents

honesttalk21:
Shared figures do not equate to shared religion. Islam is an independent Abrahamic faith that fundamentally differs from Christianity, rather than being a sect of it.

1. Early Christian views are not definitive evidence. Manuscripts from that time do not indicate different doctrines, only variations in spelling and reading. There is no Christian source that supports the existence of multiple Qur’ans with differing theological views. I will appreciate you share if you have.

2. Muslims do not worship Muhammad pbuh. Their prayers, known as solat, are directed solely to God; sending blessings upon Muhammad is not the same as worship. Do we also worship Abraham?

3. Concepts like virgin birth, ascension, and unique roles do not imply divinity. For instance, Adam had no parents, and angels are exempt from judgment, yet none of them are considered God. The Qur’an clearly states that Jesus is not divine see verses 4:171 and 5:72.

4. Referring to Islam as a Christian sect is a polemical stance rather than a historical fact. John of Damascus represents a Christian rivalry rather than a classification. By that reasoning, one could absurdly label Christianity as a heresy of Judaism.

5. Your classification is wrong. Groups that focus on Christ, even those with unorthodox beliefs, are considered Christian; however, Islam explicitly denies key Christian concepts and it does not fit into any consistent definition of Christianity.

Muslims place Mohammed above everyone including God. You have to go through Mohammed to know God's mind. Is it a small thing to be the last prophet? God can't even have a new opinion except through Mohammed. That is huge. You chant Mohammed's name five times a day saying he is the best of mankind. Christians don't worship Jesus that much

Concepts like virgin birth, ascension etc were only spread by Christians during Mohammed's time and to believe them you would be a Christian back then

Yes Christianity was originally an errant sect of Judaism that was persecuted by Jews. Islam too is a a sect of Christianity but was never persecuted by Christians until it became big

Many other Christian sects just like Islam were and are still persecuted by other Christians. They deny key Christian concepts. Islam has therefore not done anything new that other Christian sects have not done before and after it

triplechoice:
No, religious studies should not be banned from schools.

The person who created this thread has set a trap, which you and others have unfortunately fallen into. His confusion is deliberate. If you reread his post carefully, you will see he intentionally uses misleading terms like "Bible class", or "Islamic studies" instead of Religious studies.This is to create the false impression that schools teach students religious doctrines or stories the way churches or mosques do, a disingenuous framing meant to provoke outrage and advance an anti-religious argument disguised as pro-science advocacy.

But the truth is that in our schools, Religious studies is taught with academic detachment. And its purpose is to educate students about the beliefs, histories, and practices of various religions and to draw from them ethical and moral lessons relevant to society.

I know this firsthand, having been temporarily assigned to teach it alongside English and literature at a private school years ago. As someone who has since left organised religion, I still found great value teaching the subject. Unlike in a church, students in a Religious studies class are free to question and express doubt.

Once, after I narrated how the Angel Gabriel inspired Prophet Muhammad in a cave to write the Quran, one of of my brightest students, who had been listening intently, asked, "Sir, how do you know Gabriel appeared to him? Were you there"?. It was an unexpected and sensitive question, especially with Muslim students present. Before I could formulate a careful reply, another student, who obviously noticed my hesitancy, intervened, asking him, "How do you know Jesus was crucified on the cross? Were you there"?. The first student fell silent, the point made. And the class continued without need for my intervention.

That is the essence of a Religious Studies classroom. It is a space for inquiry, not indoctrination; for discussion, not preaching.

It is also about understanding why people believe what they believe, how religion shapes culture and history, and how to engage respectfully in a multi-faith society. This is exactly why it is a mandatory subject in places like the UK, to foster informed citizenship, not conversion.

In fact, I would argue we should expand the curriculum to include the academic study of indigenous traditions like Ifá, allowing students to engage with their own heritage intellectually instead of through prejudiced or foreign lenses.

Removing Religious Studies or banning it , would not make students more rational. It would leave them culturally ignorant and ill-prepared to thoughtfully navigate the world.

I agree that Ifa can be taught in schools. Comparative religion can be taught too but as you said it should not be taught to kids as truth. Ifa is science. Religion is not science

MaxInDHouse:
Guy stop deceiving yourself.
If there should be any rule it must cut across all not just picking one above the others.
It's what crumbled the above opinion.

No ifá or orunmila practice each person must remain silent no public hearing of any kind it's either you speak to individuals one on one or keep whatever you think you know to yourself!🙂

I understand your point that all should be treated the same but I also want you to understand that spirituality has always been an important part of all human cultures without exception throughout history and it is religion that uses threat that is new. I believe spirituality should be protected by government. There is hardly any way divination based spirituality can be faulted. It is not right to throw the baby away with the bath water.
Ifa/Orunmila is like nuclear physics, carpentry or tailoring. A real knowhow. It is not religion

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is what makes your idea useless because it's not generally acceptable globally it's like someone imposing Islamic clerics claiming they are equivalent of a professor something billions will find really amusing!😂

While we can say a Sheikh or Bishop is the equivalent of a Prof and be somewhat right, Awo Orunmila is even moreso because what they learn is methodology, literature and etc. You are first an apprentice then a master after which you continue studying. What you learn to become a first degree Awo is more voluminous than the average degree course. You are Awo then Oluwo and finally Araba and not everybody rise through the ranks. They are pure academic ranks and are equivalent of BSc, PhD and Professor

MaxInDHouse:
Do you think the highlighted is generally acceptable globally or your own personal opinion?🙂

To become an Awo Orunmila is a real academic exercise. It takes some people up to ten years. That is the first degree and it is an age long practice. Then you start teaching others and after a while of accumulating students you become Oluwo which is like a PhD. It is fellow Oluwos and Arabas that then make you an Araba which is the equivalence of a Professor. So for those who are conversant with the system, what I said is generally acceptable

MaxInDHouse:
Does this your opinion also include Ìjọ Ọ̀rúnmìlà?🙂

All priests should be licensed by chartered bodies. An Awo Orunmila is more than a degree holder and an Araba Awo is more than a Professor. It is a real body of knowledge and not a holy book affair.

MaxInDHouse:
I can't speak for Islam but real disciples of Christ practice our faith in private and we don't disturb anyone with noise! Matthew 12:19🙂

I mean they should not be incorporated and should not use public buildings

Yes Fmr Gov Fashola is very right. Christianity and Islam should be practiced in private

As at the first eight months


https://dancogroup.com.ng/nnpc-remits-over-n10tn-to-federation-in-8-months-records-n4-2tn-revenue-in-august/

Check this out. The story is not true and you have to consider operations cost and JV cash calls

Not just in schools. It should be banned from the public space

Religion should be banned. It has not always existed.


People argue that we have thousands of religions and that religion has always existed. This however is not the case. If you group all spiritual traditions together as religion then you are calling a dog a bad name in order to hang it. Traditional spirituality is what has always existed and not religion. There must be a separation of the wheat from the chaff. Christianity and Islam are stand alones. They can not be grouped with other spiritualities. They are the only ones that have a holy book that must be believed at all cost. They are the only ones saying God is burning people in hell for unbelief. They also say idolatry is evil when we all know what true evil is.

Two thousand years ago before Christianity became a thing, there was tranquility on Earth and people's traditions and culture were respected. They followed basic common sense by fully expecting a group having a different language to have a different perspective of God. Within your culture you can choose to be either monotheistic or polytheistic and there will be nobody breathing down your neck. Before Christianity, all wars were territorial but with the advent of Christianity and Islam, we now have wars over God. Something unheard of in the past.

Can anybody tell me something positive added to human civilization by religion that would not have been there if not for religion?. There is none but there is a lot of misery that would not have been there if not for religion.
Religion divides and humanity has no need for it.

Before religion, all cultures had divination based spirituality. In religion, divination is banned.

Spirituality is important. Yes and it should be supported by governments but religion is toxic and it should be banned. Let Christians and Muslims and possibly Jews do their thing in private spaces and never in public. Judaism is not a full fledged religion but it is the parent of religion. It is not a full fledged religion because they don't aim to convert the whole world

Tapa is just the Yoruba word for Nupe. I believe the Nupe also have a Nupe word for Yoruba. It is not a derogatory word. There are many Yoruba families who take pride in being greeted as Tapa

RestructureNig3:
You're an ignoramus, Fulani are minority in Nigeria.
Igboland is divided into South East and South South Regions, here is the map of Igboland.

Igbo have more population than the Yoruba,

Where is the population living? The entire population of the SE which contains majority of Igbos is around the same population as Oyo and Ogun. Nigeria has really messed up the Yoruba so bad. The entire SE is just eighty percent of Lagos. The SE is less than Kano in population

EmekaA125:
Remove Igbo population in Lagos, Ibadan and Ogun let's continue the conversation. Even at that, SE is not small in population. Onitsha alone is bigger than the whole of Ekiti State. So be sure before saying what you have no knowledge of.

Return all Yoruba to Yoruba land before we continue the conversation. You people talk as if it is only Igbos that reside outside their enclave. There is no Nigerian ethnic group that is not scattered across Nigeria. There are probably more Yoruba outside Yoruba land than non Yorubas on Yoruba land so it cancels out. I can post links of university departments in the North where a large percentage of staff are Yoruba. When Christians were killed during the last Jos riots there were more Yoruba killed than Igbos. When there was a census of language spoken at home in US Yoruba was like double Igbo. In Ireland it was like triple. Why do you think it's not like that in Jos, Maiduguri or Kano? Everybody is everywhere. Migration cancels out

According to NIN data, Anambra is like double the population of Ekiti

AntiChristian:
Which Torah stories are inside the Qur'an? Do provide clear proofs!

And if Jesus quoted a verse from the Old testament do you say he copied it too?

Jesus did not say he received those verses from God directly. Muslims insist the Quran was divinely revealed to Mohammed when it is obviously a new edition Torah or a new edition of the Bible

Edusouls:
china now controls world manufacturing bro do you know what it means? Before it was USA but due to their liberal ways China penetrated their society and started exporting jobs to their place luring away top companies to their country with offer of cheap labor and tax, how did u think they got big cos they stole from USA, one of the reason USA is mad at them, USA helped build the China we see today one reason China keeps mum when USA is throwing accusations,

Labor costs across the world can be evened out then some manufacturing will return to the US. The west too used many Chinese inventions to kick off. So the Chinese using the US to get ahead is normal. We all need each other. What the Chinese did in the 20th century the Japanese did in the 19th and achieved parity with the west

honesttalk21:
Reference or admit you are just carelessly speaking a troubled wish.

Moses spoke Kemitic Egyptian the one in which the book of the dead is written

honesttalk21:
Reference or admit you are just carelessly speaking a troubled wish.

Sumerian stopped being a living language 4000 years ago but it was in use as a liturgical language for a further 2000 years

honesttalk21:
Reference or admit you are just carelessly speaking a troubled wish.

Arabic was not in use over 2500 years ago

honesttalk21:
Are you forcing your view?

If believing in the virgin birth of Jesus and viewing him as a prophet qualifies someone as Christian then you make an unreasonable argument. By that reasoning, Muslims who honor Jesus would also be considered Christians, even though they reject key Christian beliefs like the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, his sacrificial death, and resurrection which are core tenets of Christianity.

Muhammad pbuh did not support these beliefs or engage in Christian practices. You can't separate from something you were never a part of. Your claim that Sumerians are ancestors of Arabs is historically inaccurate. The Sumerians, who lived in what is now Iraq from 3500 to 1900 BCE, spoke a unique language and were ethnically different from Arabs, who are Semitic people from the Arabian Peninsula. Your comparison to Mormons reinforces my argument. Joseph Smith was a Christian before he established Mormonism, representing a true breakaway. In contrast, Muhammad pbuh was never a Christian; he had a different origin.

There is no historical evidence that Muhammad pbuh practiced or converted from Christianity. Save yourself this pointless banter and bring proof he was. Influence does not equate to identity.

Muslims Revere Jesus because their founder was a Christian at one point. That is where they got it from. You can only get reports about Jesus from Jews or Christians when Mohammed was born. Going by his beliefs, Mohammed listened to Christians and was convinced by them.

Then the ancestors of Arabs did not speak Arabic which is a new language. The ancestors of Jews did not speak Hebrew. The first prominent Semitic language came after the rise of Assyria. As at only 1000 years ago, Sumerian was still in use in Iraq. It later was used only by priests and then it passed out of use. Someone like Moses spoke Kemitic Egyptian and not Hebrew. The difference in language therefore does not mean Sumerians are not Arab ancestors. Arabic is a new language

gidgiddy:
They have to be silent, they cant antagonise their almighty big brother, the North

Had the names been Igbo, the Internet would have been on fire for weeks.

If they were Igbos, they would be arrested and made to face trial just as is happening now.

honesttalk21:
Your assertion that Muhammad pbuh was converted by Christians or just a Christian is totally untrue and doesn't hold water historically. There's no real evidence suggesting he ever practiced Christianity or went through any kind of conversion from it. Islamic texts portray him as a monotheist in a society full of polytheism, not as someone who used to be Christian and then started a new religion. Saying that accepting the virgin birth and Jesus as a prophet makes him a Christian is a huge stretch. By that logic, anyone who respects Jesus would automatically be a Christian which makes the definition so broad it loses all meaning. Christianity has some core, non-negotiable beliefs which are Christ's divinity, his sacrifice for sins, and his resurrection. Islam has rejected all three of these from the very beginning. Muhammad pbuh didn't break away from Christianity because he was never part of it to begin with. If just sharing a few beliefs makes religions the same, then Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics would be the same religion.

Your claim about pre-Islamic Arabian writings mentioning Abraham falls apart when you bring up the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is from Mesopotamia, not Arabia, and existed centuries before Abraham. This shows a basic misunderstanding between Sumerian (Iraqi) and Arabian cultures. If you have tons"of pre-Islamic Arabian texts, you should name them specifically instead of vaguely pointing to stuff from completely different civilizations.

The idea that Muhammad wasn't persecuted by Christians is irrelevant when it comes to classifying religions. Mormons weren't universally persecuted by Christians either, but they're still considered a distinct religion. Persecution doesn't define theological boundaries doctrine does. Islam's clear rejection of Christianity's core beliefs makes it a separate religion, regardless of whether Christians helped early Muslims or whether Muhammad pbuh ever encountered Christian teachings.

You don't understand. Jesus was a Jew. Jews believed he was a nonentity, a vagabond. Anybody in the seventh century of Mohammed that believed Jesus was born of a virgin and was God's prophet was a Christian at one point. I hope you get it now. If you believe Mohammed is the last Prophet, how were you not a Muslim at one point? How were you not converted by Muslims?
Mesopotamia is Iraq and those are the ancestors of Arabs. Sumerians are Arab ancestors. There are other Arab ancestors and there are no Arab ancestors that have tradition of Abraham.

Mormons will not argue like you are doing now that their founder was not a Christian

Edusouls:
exactly ur right USA leads in innovation, and they would always be competitive, but their almighty status is gone….

What are they enjoying now that they will lose? They will still be world police or who else will be given the job?.

Yoruba customary law is vastly superior to Islam in all respect. Since Yoruba Muslims like Sharia, why are they not marrying their cousins since it is allowed by Sharia?

pek:
I agree with you to an extent. But Moslems in Yoruba land can't be said to be insignificant! They are even more in some parts and in some states like Oyo, they determine the status quo

They are balanced out by their rivals the Christians. As they say 'Were la fi nwo were' Madness can only be cured with madness

If a state governor refuses to conduct local government elections then it will be wrong for the Presidency to release local government funds to such a government since it is undermining democracy. Osun however has conducted a local government election though it was boycotted by the APC. I think the election was conducted after the governor got a court injunction that purportedly invalidated the election conducted by the outgone Governor Oyetola.

The fault presently is with the judiciary and not the Osun state government. Let the judiciary say in clear words which of the two local government elections held already is valid. Why is it difficult for the court to do this?

My own opinion is that the PDP and others are not justified to boycott the Gov Oyetola election just because he was on his way out. The Nigerian constitution does not say a Governor that lost election can not conduct local government election. It can however be possible to sue him and claim damages because he did not conduct the elections earlier.

In my opinion the so called Yes or No chairmen are the legitimate chairmen. However it is the courts that have the final say.

Since the present Governor Adeleke has conducted elections then the funds seized by the Presidency should be released to his government while the other party goes to court.

Edusouls:
USA is owing 34trillion dollars in debts, mind you they can't pay it off, they spend almost 1trillon a year in military budgets yearly alone, don't mind all these hyped company values, the real economy is jobs and manufacturing which has left the USA to China, when you owe you don't have money folks, no wonder they now go on Broaday light robbery of oil in Venezuela, all these gen z here shouting and praising USA you people we're not born yet when they were at their peak , their glorious days are gone forever

The USA is owing over seventy percent of it's debts to US citizens and institutions not foreign entities. The US is still leading in innovation and the source of new wealth is innovation and new markets. When everything is evened up, the only two countries that will be ahead of the US is India and China because of their local market. The US will still continue to be the most competitive big country