₦airaland Forum

Pastor AIO: Thank you, Logicboy, for the appreciation. What evidences have you, though, that human beings are evolving away from religion. Is this evolution genetic, or is it cultural?

As nations get developed and people get smarter, they stop believing in religion. It is not genetic or cultural. There is hardly any developed and free country that is not secular.

Top 10 developed countries in the world have a properly established separation of church and state. Google the human devlopment index. Norway tops the bunch, followed by Australia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Inequality-adjusted_HDI_2

Pick the smartest people from any country in this present day and you would see that there are many atheists among them. The first person that comes to mind is Wole Soyinka of Nigeria. Soyinka is the first person that comes to your mind when thinking of smart Nigerians.While this can be written off as a coincidence, we can look at scientists in the West who are generally more atheistic than the general population. This of course, is assuming that scientists are smarter than the general public. http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Scientists_and_atheism

Where does our technology come from (Toyota, Smasung, Sharp, Honda, LG, Apple, Microsoft)? Atheistic societies i.e. scientists, Japan, South Korea, China. USA is also a bedrock of technology but it's population is majorly religious which betrays its secular laws and the atheistic nature of it's scientists. Furthermore, religion is in the decline in America.


This is not to say that all atheists are smarter than religious people. This is my attempt at explaining studies that show a correlation or link between irreligiosity/atheism to intelligence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

Logic Mind: When Abram became hungry, he asked his wife to pretend she was his sister so other men would sleep with her and he would blackmail them.
This happenned in Genesis 12: 9-20 and again in Genesis 20: 1-16

He taught his son Isaac this trick and he used it well in Genesis 26: 7-16.

This is the foolish thing about the bible. Sarah was already Abraham's sister. Half sister to be exact

mimibets: For want of what to believe in!

Explain thy comment

It's plain hypocrisy!I have complained twice that the "praise thread" is a christian thread that should be scrapped

Joel.:
Logic boy. Let me ask u this. I knw u don't believe in God, but Do u believe in destiny? Things like fate and all that stuff?

This should be put in frontpage plz mod.

There is no fate.


Man maketh his own destiny. If you live in a free country, your life is in your hands.

snubish: no, not true sir. u can tell they are different people from their mannerisms when writing. logicboy seems to be a sincere seeker of truth. he is well mannered and usually attacks as a defense rather than as an aggressor. logicboy, i doubt u,re really an atheist, i would say more like agnostic, i feel ur posts reveal too much sensitivity and common sense than for u to be convinced in the absence of a supreme being. young man, i wish u luck in your life, and hope u will one day find the religion of truth:


ISLAM; (we don,t claim to have all the answers; does anyone?)a religion of gratitude and awe-inspired submission to the ONE who surrounds all things. peace be unto you.

Thanks bro.

Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that I will convert to Islam

tpia@:
I am a sick person that likes to misquote people. I also like gay sex

Two people can play this game

What is an advance ps2 game?

Game boy advance + Playstation 2?


fatalism is one of the foolish arguments for religion.

Were people predetermined to be slaves? Is it their fate?

dayokanu: I fully support Creflo Dollar in this

a15yr old girl going for a party at 1am?

She would be on the next flight to Nigeria. And Not Lagos, Abuja or Ibadan but rural Nigeria in a boarding school to learn common sense


Shioor

Not surprised if you're also an Oyedepo supporter

I also wonder how an omnipotent God can make mistakes.


https://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/168/317/god%20meme%204.png

frosbel: Are people really this bored !!!!!

Hi hater!

Upon all the good work by Ghandi, the guy no reach heaven!!!!However, slappers like Oyedepo go to heaven

Logic Mind: Yes, I have seen the statues of the saints. They are all white or middle easterners.

No Asians as well

I wonder also

Both the bible and koran are flawed.

End of story.

Slavery is accepted in both books

Pastor Kun: I think you are both very illogical and confused.

Lol....you say that as if you have any crediblity, fake pastor.

musKeeto: Tilapia always stinking up threads!!!

What do you expect from a dead fish?

Logic Mind: I can confirm that you wallow in confusion if you think that I sound like logicboy.

True. While we make similar points, I believe that we have different writing styles.

Avicenna: I see.
Power to influence them. This is true.
I have stopped saying anything about Islam. See, when I am asked to give a lecture in class for muslim students, I usually spun tall tales(that I was told about). They swallow the bullsh.it ,ALL of it. Agreeing with them will only lead to a greater reinforcement of their religious views.

It is very good that you started this thread. I am also learning things.

I do not mean to be rude but I think you should also be on the Islam section on Nairaland where you can convince more people about the truth concerning religion. As an atheist with a christian background, my arguments can always be misconstrued as islamophobia. However, you have the Islamic background to challenge things.

Odunnu: Is Logicmind = Logicboy? Why the multiple IDs if yes? They both sound alike too and i'm a bit confused, please clarify

You have 2 choices

1) Think of us as a trinity. We are one but 3. Logic1 Logic Mind and Logicboy

2) Great minds think alike.

Obi1kenobi: Again, my moniker isn't an issue and suggests nothing about me. I owe you no explanation about its origin and it has nothing to do with Star Wars. Claiming I'm ignorant for refuting your version of my moniker's origin is as daft as me claiming your moniker is named after electrical/electronic logic circuits and calling you ignorant for denying it. If you found the grammar "big", it's your problem. I've used the terms that come to mind for what I was looking to articulate.

My calling your posts "juvenile" or "childish" is no hypocrisy. They're simply childish. If you had a bad odour and I told you so, it doesn't make me a hypocrite for pointing it out.

Denial! It is like naming your child Jesus and then saying that the origin is not from the bible. You might not be a christian but the origin is the bible as that is the first Jesus we know. Obi wan Kenobi in Star Wars is the first and only Obi Wan Kenobi that people know.


Fruthermore, I am not childish. I'm a bit aggressive but not childish. Get a life bro. Your hypocrisy stinks

Mr_Anony: No my friend you keep getting it wrong, information and the physical response are two different things entirely. The information itself is abstract. You may describe information as the cause and the physical response as the effect. The physical response is only an interpretation of the information (and it can be interpreted in many different ways) but the true nature of that information is abstract and not physical.

In other news, I would suggest you look into the idea behind Plato's theory of forms if you are not familiar with it already.

Anony, you're a smart guy but your twisting of common sense to set up a basis for God doesnt help. The information is physical. It is either written or heard. Whatever it conveys is irrelevant because we are not talking about the communication process. The inof itself is physical.

Even the communication process is physical because your brain is active and your brain is imagining the abstract interpretation from the info.

If I wrote "the boy is good", you would imagine the interpretation in your head- you would visualise a small boy in your head and that visualization is from your memory of what boys look like.

Avicenna: Let me tell you a comment on Dana plane crash. ' The politicians are doing their rituals. They are using innocent blood to 'wet' the ground.' There was no blame on the airline that operated the faulty plane. 153 people confirmed dead and the response was superstition and more superstitions.

I am dumbfounded. I think that you have very little chance of reasoning with such a person. The best way to correct the person is that there would be no gain for the politicians nothing at all. The best way is to follow the money- people died because the airline wanted to save money on repairs and new planes.

Blood money only works in a shrine

Avicenna: Exactly.....
Cyrexx also implied same thing with the doubt thing.
I think that this can only be used on educated, logical people. I used that method on someone before. The reply is God's ways are mysterious, you should not question it( I became an atheist soon afterwards ).
Now, let's come to the kind of people I'm talking about. They will attack,verbally or even physically at the slightest 'insult' to their religion. They seem not to grasp the irony of their Gods. If I follow through with your conversation, they may not label me an atheist if I do not tell them. They will just think I'm a bad muslim. This will certainly nullify any gains I had with them. But whatever doubts I introduce will immediately be evaporated once they step out of that vehicle.
Logic, please do not think I'm debunking anything. From those previous posts, I v learned somethings. If I can take the merits from them and think something up, it will be worthwhile.
One thing I think may help is IF I get their respects first. I do not have age or power on my side so it will be harder to gain respect. Medical anytin or not.

Agreed
That is it. You either say what they want to hear (Islam is the greatest thing since sliced yam) or you berra get the power to influence them. Logical arguments only works with people who understand logic in the first place.

Mr_Anony: I am not challenging whether it is a guess or not, all I am saying is that the above analogy is wrong. Evolution is not random at all. It is definitely guided. The question now is what is guiding it?

Evolution is both random and systematic, just like a game of cards. The shuffling makes it random but the mathematical rules of the card game makes it systematic- the players can have different approaches to winning based on the rules.

I dont know how you jumped into a guiding force. There is no purpose in evolution other than to survive and many animals fail this basic survival test. No guiding force

Idehn and Anony.

I have been following this argument and I am wondering why there is an argument on "physicality".It has been settled for a long time that God is not physical (No physical proof) and this world is entirely physical.


My two cents....sorry, I am a bit bored so I just jump into arguments

Obi1kenobi: What does my moniker have to do with maturity? It also has nothing to do with Star Wars (which I never even liked or followed) and any allusions to it are purely coincidental. You post like an excitable child, hopping around here picking pointless "debates". And several of your comments follow a syllogic pattern that suggests an [b]illusion of superiority [/b]due to your beliefs.

Hehehe.....so it has resulted to big grammar now! See me see trouble!


There is only on Obi wan Kenobi and he is in star wars. It is only ignorance that would make you claim that your username has nothing to do with Star Wars.


Dont you feel like a hypocrite? You claim that I act like I am superior, then you keep telling me that I am childish (twice)?

Avicenna: Hmmmmm
Looks good but there is nothing like a liberal interpretation of the Quran. You either ignore practising a surah that says something you don't agree with(kill infidels) or practise it. Simple. Unlike the bible, interpretations of the quran is constant.
So, if a professed alfa quotes a ayah, you possibly cannot dispute it. Unless you can prove it is not from the Quran or hadith. Even more, you cannot know everything, it is arabic. The english version is all mangled up. They will teach you some arabic but it won't be enough for proper translation.
Once the driver says some rubbish arabic you don't know, he's assumed to be well grounded in islamic theology. Debating him will expose your limited knowledge in arabic( not islam or quran) which makes you look like fool. The passengers were ill-educated or not educated at all, so logical proofs is not enough because they simply cannot follow the logic.
Trust me, man, there is no common sense you can apply that they are not supposed to know already. They just willfully ignore it.
I want something. I want a effective method of injecting doubts in those people without any backlash for me.

Then you have to ask questions. That is how I broke my atheism to my uncle who is a borderline extremist for christianity. You ask questions that make them to negate themselves or the bible/koran

Atheist; Do you believe that God knows everything and controls it all?
Christian/Muslim; Yes
Atheist; Is it God's will that you are alive and well?
Christian/muslim; Yes
Atheist; Is it not then God's will that others are suffering from AIDs and Cancer or starvation? Or God's will that people died in Dana c
Christian/Muslim; .....EH....No.....Never!!!
Atheist; But God wills everything or is it the devil/Djinn?

The conversation can go to 3 ways;

1) Yes, the devil---- You will counter by saying that they are calling sick and suffering people "hosts of the devil"
2) Erm.....err......I'm not sure- You have put some doubt here.
3) God gives man the freewill---You will counter here by saying "how is it freewill if God knows that a man is going to die by aids before he even gets aids?"



What do you think?

Obi1kenobi: What a childish article. Why are you always so concerned with who is "winning" like you're in some playground competition? I'm not even religious but I find it rather irksome, the way you go about your business on this forum. And you somehow live in the delusion that your status as an atheist confers some exclusive genius tag on you which puts you above any religious person. Act with a little regard and dignity.

Everytime I come on here, you're having some juvenile back-and-forth with someone talking about. " Destroying" or "smacking down" someone's argument. You can express your contrary views without being obnoxious.

Wow, you are so mature, arent you?

Is that your big boy user name? "Obi1kenobi"? No sir, you dont sound like a star wars freak.



Saracsm aside, arguing is fun for me. That is why I joke around. Destroying" and "smackdown" are just two terms I use for comedic effects. I have never said or implied that I am smarter than religious people. Never.


Save your self-righteous BS for someone who gives a S***

Logic Mind: I can confirm that he meant Lord Luggard.

Aye, Lord Frederick Lugard