₦airaland Forum

italo: How can you prove that you "experience and see" your dreams to someone who swears that you don't dream?



How can you prove to me that you have an adrenaline rush, and that the adrenaline rush signifies anger and not some other emotion?

For all I know, one can pretend to have an adrenaline rush, or he can feel aroused and say he is angry.



How can you prove to me that you feel a particular kind of love or the other? So facial expressions are your evidence for love? So what facial expression should I expect to see on you to show you love your mother, and which one to show you love your country?



One thing I'm sure I'm ignorant of is 'whether you have a brain, and if you do, whether you think with it.' I doubt both because you are yet to prove it.

You are purposefully ignorant. There is no redemption for you. Sadly, it is people like you who are a majority in Nigeria.

You ask me to prove what has been proven and is already self evident. Do you deny that you dream? Hav millions of people not recounted their dreams? Are there not ECG monitors to show spike brain activities during dreams?

You ask for proof of love which is also self evident if you have been in love or have family close to you. There are different kinds of love. There actions that are related to love. When I said facial expressions, I clearly mentioned "in love" but your ignorance let you to ask about love between mother and child. Love is actually chemistry + biology, hormones and brain activity.

Anger is self evident you and everybody else have been angry at one point or the other. To ask for proof is pure stupidity. How do you know if someone is angry? Facial expressions, animated movements, loud or harsh voice etc. Anger can also cause the adrenaline rush to shoot up beforte a fight.


I will repeat, it is because of willfully ignorant scums like you that make Nigeria a real sad place to live.

-There are no science museums for our children to learn evolution because ignorant people hate it because it debunks their religion
-There is no separation of church and state and hence no equality and freedom
-There is no history taught to our children on slavery so that islam and christianity can be protected.


You sir are a fool. Ironic when the bible says that a man who says in his heart there is no God is a fools. The biggest fools in Nigeria are fanatic christians and muslims

buzugee: atheists are about as powerful as an arthritic octogenarian

Really?

-The same atheists that have brought about secularism in the worlds top countries?
-The same atheists that dominate the Nairaland religious section with more anti-religious than religious threads?


Atheists are a minority in most societies but they have you guys cowering in fear..."ooh, they are taking our religion away from us.....this is a christian country"

tbaba1234: I hope you do find the truth and become muslim

1. Islamic scholars were evolutionary thinkers way before darwin. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/feb/27/islam-religion-evolution-science
These were actual religious scholars not just scientists. However, we draw the line, We do not believe that human beings today have evolved from non-human creatures. Maybe other species might have, but not humans. That does not however negate the need for a creator who set the universe in motion.

God has created every [living] creature from water. And of them are those that move on their bellies, and of them are those that walk on two legs, and of
them are those that walk on four. God creates what He wills. Indeed, God is over all things competent. (Surah 24:45)

Islam is the balance between the evolutionist who does not believe in God and the creationist who does not believe in science. We have no problem with science, we have always been an intellectual civilisation. Some of that is lost now but hopefully muslims gain that again.

2. No, it does not.... If you become muslim, you might find out where Jannah is...

3. Social changes takes time, gradual integration is a better way to get rid of slave trade than outright ban. As regards, the other rules like Riba, pork and premarital sex... Muslims are convinced of their faith and of the divinity of the Quran. Obeying the laws of the creator is easy when you are absolutely convinced of what it says... We hear and we obey.

4. He has sent revelations to you, it is up to you to use your intellect. It is arrogant to ask for the creator of the heavens and the earth to pay you a physical visit.

5. yes,he controls all things....

I give up. I dont think this is going anywhere. I think it is better to debate on one particular issue at a time. Right now, it is just you saying yes and me saying no.

I think I will satart threads on

-Riba
-Islam and slavery
-Islam and polygamy

One topic at a time

emöfine2: Can a being that is deemed perfect be perfectly conveyed by beings that are imperfect?

As humans we make mistakes, our beliefs fluctuate and often times we are biased I thus wonder is man befitting enough to relay a "perfect" god(s)?

God too himself is not perfect.

The christian God
-created the devil that destroyed his relationship with man. He made a mistake by creating lucifer
-died like a fowl and a common thief on a cross (Jesus)
-was racist to the canaanite woman

The Jewish God
-Regulated slavery
-Ordered isrealites to commit genocide against other nations
-Allowed polygamy (eg Solomon, David)

The Muslim God
-Talks haphazardly in the Koran
-Regulated slavery
-Allows polygamy

The Agnostic or Scientific God
-Creates the universe imperfectly and then focks off
-Doesnt care about humans
-Is only a probability

Avicenna: It's just sad. When you are trying to prove there is nothing like a miracle and sheer chance kicks you in the balls.
That woman had been brainwashed. The signs she gave was that there is no way she could have delivered normally. The next thing would be a caesarian operation. But after a psychological boost from the pastor( a sheer mind trick), she got more energy and was even more resolute to deliver.
As a medical student, this things are common. They are not miracles. That's why most doctors will remain skeptical about this explainable 'miracles'. The doctor was probably angry because he was trying to prove them wrong and the weak woman decided to be strong enough to deliver.
This just gave me an idea. Using mind tricks on pregnant women. Maybe it will even reduce maternal mortality.

It will not. Such "miracles" will only lead people to their deaths. The woman was lucky. What about the other 75% that would die if they didnt listen to their doctors.

ea7: this anvil needs to be dropped www.rationalresponders.com/debunking_an_urban_legend_evil_is_a_lack_of_something
@above poster, your phones and internet don't run on prayer do they?

I have given up. I did my best but I see these people as pigs always ready to wallow in the mud of ignorance. Animals. And it is people like this that run our country. Sad

ijawkid: @logic boy...u baffle me a lot...

Ur speaking like the ""thoery of gravity" or the word ""gravity"" is what created d gravity....


It was just a name given to the pull(force)....

We all feel gravity even if we can see it...

We percieve its action on us.....

I could give it another name if I had existed as a scientist in them day....


I still can't believe that u'll degrade your life and urself claiming u evolved from ape or some fossils(fishes) just to run away from d fact that there's an intelligent creator...


I had once in a previous post wished that d kids u give birth to come as apes or fishes so that u'll get d full import of what u wish for.....
Do you have kids??

And it has been asked a million times why recent apes stopped evolving into humans ,but give birth to there kinds?

Is reproduction and evolution the same and exact thing?

Why are we humans giving birth to our kinds?


Are we evolving??

Show me 1 evolved human......

Show me proof,.....

Use urself as an example....

Are u evolving into some freaky monster anytime from. Now

U had better be happy God created man the way we are...

Why do you choose to be ignorant?

1) Monkeys are not evolving into humans anymore because of speciation. Humans and monkeys have the same common ancestor but along the way, there was a genetic drift and and we got split into different species. The common ancestors branched into different species. Humans will evolve into more advanced humans and monkeys into advanced monkeys.

2) Yes, we are all turning into monsters. I did not grow all of my wisdom teeth. The other one that grew needs removal. We have no need for our wisdom teeth unlike before. We are bigger than human beings during the medieval times. Bigger with more effective teeth. Monsters

3) The germ theory nko? Do you reject it? Why not roll around in the gutter and see what germs can do?

4) You christians are one of the reasons why Nigeria is backwards, we have no science museums to showcase fossils because evolution debunks the bible. We dont have spearation of church and state for freedom of persecution by religious fanatics. The muslims in Nigeria are a lost cause and another entire story.,

italo: I don't reject the evolution theory, but that doesn't mean I see it as a fact - it is not a fact that humans evolved from fishes. And even if it were, you seem not to be aware that "facts" are not necessarily true. There are so many "scientific facts" that have been later found to be false. I know what a scientific theory is: it is NOT FACT!

Its you who is most ignorant. You have never seen or touched a fossil, have you? So going by you method of testing for evidence, its safe to say you know nothing about them. Unless you are basing your argument on FAITH in what scientists say... Are you?

You still haven't told me how to prove to a blind man that the sky is blue...and to a deaf man that birds sing. Instead you keep replying rubbish. Your epic failure!

Facts are not necessarily true? Why do you chose to remain ignorant?

I have seen a fossil. It's because of christian idiots like you that we dont have science museums in Nigeria with fossils on evolution. I am really starting to dislike your thinking. It is very toxic. People like you never bring progress.

I am not blind or deaf or dumb. I can perceive things. You thinking is quite irrelevant unless you are saying that atheists, agnostics and unbelievers are blind, which is very foolish.

italo: Mr 'I can't see, touch, hear, taste or smell, so it doesn't exist.'

Are there dreams? Is there love, hate, etc? Do people forget things? Do you really believe what you say? (Its possible you're just pretending)
Is there proof for all these?

If you can't provide sensory proof, should we then say that all those are lies?

1) You experience and see your dreams

2) You feel the adrenaline rush wen you get angry.

3) You can feel the dfferent kinds of love. There arefacial expressions when people are in love together. When you want to have sex, your hormones are in action and you feel the manhood come to life or the pussycat get wet


You are just blatantly ignorant

The answer is "YES"!

Christianity supports slavery.

PapaBrowne: How do you know that people from ancient times were buried with ancient artifacts?? Please tell me how you came to that conclusion, because you weren't there when they claimed that happened. So how come you know for sure that people were buried with ancient artifacts? For all I care they could just be rock formations that looked like skeletons and it could all just be coincidental. I'm surprised you believed that- something you never sensed!!

Carbon Dating? You believe that stuff?? Seriously??
Definition
Radiocarbon dating (sometimes simply known as carbon dating) is a radiometric dating method that uses the naturally occurring radioisotope carbon-14 (14C) to estimate the age of carbon-bearing materials up to about 58,000 to 62,000 years.

What the heck is radioisotope. Whats that definition up there?? Someone just came up with something from his head and named it Radioisotope, a group of people [b]believed [/b]him and today are using what they [b]b
elieve [/b]to ascertain the age of materials?? No exact measure to test the authenticity since nobody was present thousands of years ago to verify for us if carbon dating is accurate?? And yet without that full proof accuracy, you [b]believe [/b]in carbon dating??

Can you explain how different are you from all them Christians who go around [b]believing [/b]stuff they have no proof or sensory based evidence about?

This amount of willful ignorance and stupidity requires a lot of patience and debunking.


1) There are crypts from medieval times and Mummies from Eqyptian pyramids.

For crypts;

-Wealthy families were the ones that used crypst. Family emblems, markings and artifacts compared with the history of the place help to piece the dating and the people who are buried there

-Carbon dating

For mummies;
-The hieroglyphics and the history of the Egyptians are used to piece together who the mummies were. Ancient Egyptian Kings and priests like Ramses/Seti 1 have been found

-Carbon dating.

2) Carbon dating is a well tested technique. Science does not just guess. There are hundreds of peer reviewed journals on each scientific technique or theory. Carbon dating is clearly not 100% accurate but has a calculated margin of error.


3) Why is it that Christians are only skeptical about science when it negates their religion? No one questions germ theory or theory of gravity but the theory of evolution is false? Remember that before germ theory was established, christians were believing that God could cure illnesses

italo: Nobody can prove to me that he/she has witnessed evolution. It is not a fact that my wisdom tooth is useless and my jaw is smaller than those of men that lived in the early centuries. You can't prove that the fossils found (which I doubt you have ever touched) are those of men "that lived in the early centuries."

It is a fact that wisdom teeth are useless. 35% of the population do not even grow wisdom teeth. Why do christians like yourself hate to accept facts? Dont you feel ashamed for lying?

Furthermore, I was talking about medieval times of which there are crypts in which they are buried. Even going further back than that are mummies that have been preserved and the mummies of Seti 1 and Tutankhamum have been found and their exact centuries known.

italo: How do you know the professor has a brain if the story is a lie and you haven't seen, touched or felt his brain? Who x-rayed or scanned the pof's brain?



Who was the student then? If you don't know, then how do you know it wasn't Einstein?.. Even though it doesn't matter...

If there was a professor, he clearly had a brain. It is a fact that humans can not function without a brain. We also know what brains look like with looking at dead bodies. Stop acting foolish

The student was not Einstein and the story has been debunked;

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

italo: I didn't say what I "expect", I said what actually happened!

They are to different things.

What is it that makes you feel that it is impossible for a married couple to abstain from sex with each other?

Because it is clearly foolish.

-Did they not want to have children?
-Did they not have sex on their wedding night which is traditional to know that she is a virgin with the bleeding?

PapaBrowne: Can you tell me how come you believe "the bones are fossils of men who lived in the early centuries"? Did you see them? Have you touched them?? Why do U [b]believe [/b]in something that could be discovered to be a fairy tale? Someone just thought up the idea of fossils and you [b]believe [/b]it just like that?? For someone that [b]believes [/b]only in things he has sensed, I'm really at a loss as to how you came about [b]believing [/b]in Fossils.

You dont know what a skeleton looks like? Were there not people from ancient times buried with ancient artifact? Do you know what carbon dating is?

PapaBrowne: About scans and Xrays, its amazing that you actually [b]believe [/b]that a piece of glass with light shinning through could actually tell you whats inside the human body. It takes a lot of faith to believe that! Because, it could actually be that what you thought were pictures from the human body were just lateral designs embedded in the glass.

Are you serious? We all know what a brain looks like and we see similar images in scans. How old are you? Ihope you're a teenager with this level of intelligence.

italo: "Gay", "powerless", "frigid", "disrespectful"

What dictionary are you using?

What schools did you attend?

Ptolomeus is right. Do you really expect a married couple not to have sex? Are you joking?

Ptolomeus wrote clear English

italo: That a scientific theory "contains facts and laws" doesn't mean it's a fact. It is not!

Example: It is a fact that fossil skulls have been found that are intermediate in appearance between humans and modern apes. It is a fact that fossils have been found that are clearly intermediate in appearance between dinosaurs and birds.

Facts may be interpreted in different ways by different individuals, but that doesn't change the facts themselves.

Theories, however, may be good, bad, or indifferent. They may be true, false or in-between. They may be well established by the factual evidence, or they may lack credibility.

You're still like a blind man who says, "if the sky were blue, I would perceive it."

He doesn't know what "blue" is, so how can he perceive it?

You don't know 'what' God is, so how can you perceive him (or even know how to)?

1)Why dont you reject germ theory or gravity? You are free to play in the gutter or to throw your phone at force to the ground. s it because your pastors and fellow christians have told you not to believe in evolution. Clearly, you dont know what a scientific theory means. It is clearly different from a layman's theory.

2) There are transitional fossils that have been found and are well documented. I dont know where to start with your ignorance. Please, let me redirect you to my thread where I destroyed 3 creationists;

https://www.nairaland.com/922920/destruction-creationists-olaadegbu-brainpulse-bigd4050

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M96bkdohMZE



3) I am not blind or deaf, you are talking nonsense. The epic failure of christianity;


There is not one thing that a christian can do that a non-believer can not. If this is not evidence for both the uselessness of God and the irrelevance of christianity, I do not know what is.

italo: Whether the story is a "hoax" or not, I don't know and I don't care. My answer remains:

Give me an example of something that I can not touch feel or see or has no emprical evidence that I believe in, apart from God

PapaBrowne: Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class was in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

(The class broke out into laughter. )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?


By the way, that student was EINSTEIN.

1) Everybody has witnessed evolution. The very fact that your wisdom teeth is useless and your jaw is smaller compared to the bones or fossils of men that lived in the early centuries is proof of evolution.

2) The are scans and Xrays and dead human bodies. We know that the professor has a brain

3) The student was not Einstein. That is a hoax

italo: Whether the story is a "hoax" or not, I don't know and I don't care. My answer remains:

You love to be ignorant dont you?

tbaba1234: 1. Evolution is an interesting theory for existence, but even evolution does not negate the existence of a God. We have no problem in believing in some kind of evolution. The main problem with evolution and Islam is the story of Adam. For instance the Quran states that the heavens and earth were created in 6 ayums or 6 periods... A period is not defined as six 24 hour days...

He is God, the Creator, the Inventor,the Fashioner (evolver); to Him belong the best names.1547 Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is
the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (surah 59:24)

The islamic civilisation has always had pre modern views on evolution, for instance:

al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) said:

"Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring."

Muslim accept microevolution not macroevolution generally but that does not change our view on God. Evolution is not the crushing blow to the religion of the muslim because we have always had the position of some kind of evolution of creatures.. It does not negate the existence of a creator... who set everything in motion.

The Quran is not a science book... It is a book of signs...

2. It does tell you to free slaves, marry slaves, integrate them doesn't it? you live in a different socio-economic situation that is the only reason, you would say that. If you know anything about changing social conditions... you know it can't be done overnight. The US as a country went through a civil war even in the industrial age before slavery was abolished. imagine those that were not in the industrial age.

3. yes he can... We do not say God is all merciful.... we say He is The Merciful...Meaning he exhibits greater mercy than mankind...He is also AD-Darr: Meaning the afflictor not the all afflictor.. so sometimes, he shows us mercy or afflicts us with harm. The names have to looked at together not separately...

4. Well, He does.... the signs are all around you...if only you reason

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that
which benefits people, and what God has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein
every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and earth are signs for a people who use reason (Surah 2: 164)

5. Every time you go to the hospital and get healed, that is God healing you... The Quran is a healing for the diseased heart (metaphor).

A disbeliever is one who has been presented with Islam in the true form and rejects it. The Quran uses the word kufr, which means to hide, to bury... The disbeliever is a select group of people.

Tbaba, you're a smart guy. It really pains me to argue against you but that is the price I have to pay to establish the truth.

1) Evolution has one thing in common with the Koran. You can not accept the Koran halfway the same way you can not accept evolution half way. Evolution and it's different parts are linked. Evolution is a scientifc theory like germ theory, I dont see you arguing against germ theory.

2) Evolution debunks the story that Adam and Eve were created. Man was never created. Furthermore, the Koran claims that man lived in Jannah before coming to earth. Where is this Jannah that man was created in?

3) The Koran has bad priorites. What is better? Abolishing slave trade or saying that you should marry a slave. Remember that slaves came form other places which were not muslim. If the slave fails to convert, the consequences could be lethal. The Koran calls a lot of trivial things haram like riba, pork, premarital sex etc......why not call slavery haraam?

4) There are no signs around me for God. Life would be simple if Allah could show himself in public once in a while. But he doesnt exist. Even allah is an atheist- He doesnt believe in any god

5) The people that died of flu before germ theory and drugs were made were not healed by Allah but the ones that survived with the odrugs made were healed by Allah? Is that your thinking?

The islamic civilisation has always had pre modern views on evolution, for instance:

al-Jahiz (c. 776-869) said:

"Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring."

Muslim accept microevolution not macroevolution generally but that does not change our view on God. Evolution is not the crushing blow to the religion of the muslim because we have always had the position of some kind of evolution of creatures.. It does not negate the existence of a creator... who set everything in motion.

Al-Jahiz is not the Koran. Even cavemen knew that animals fight for resources.

Mr_Anony: Hey logicboy. Was this the christianity you practiced for 22 years before turning to Atheism? Were you ever born again?

I was a catholic for 22 years. What is this born again? I was baptised and I accepted that Jesus is lord. End of story.

I am an atheist now. You are in no position to question my christianity n the past. I myself can say that you're not born again and that your church is not the true church of God

toba: I see why u troll Nairaland and proliferate threads. How long do u think this wealth can last to afford u the luxury of time?
I'm to tell u once again that u ve done nothing so far




either the first, second or third time, u asked for a list and at first, u posted a list didnt u?

do u know riches has categories?

I am done going around in circles with your delusions.

1) You played a strawman first with the rich list
2) You trolled this thread by sarcastically saying "nothing" when you know something about the topic.
3) I gave you an offer to see my house and you declined. End of story.


If you have nothing new to offer, then Sharrap! Even the barely literate christians on Nairaland know better than to repeat the same failed talking points