₦airaland Forum

musKeeto: seems like someone's being harshly ignored...

Guy, be easy on him

JeSoul: Good.

You may have mis-read my question. I meant percentage of non-gays that support gay marriage. Or else America would be a gay paradise which is obviously isn't.

Honestly, I almost put "pls don't refer to the civil rights as an example" when I posted that question. lol. Its not the same issue - especially as long as I've agreed I have no desire to deny them equal rights as married couples.


Ai! the second part of your answer...to be discussed later.

See Emofine's last post on the issue of church & state seperation. I take some issue with your stance to teach evolution (as a fact despite its many flaws). It should be presented as a scientific theory not fact. I do think creationism should be taught - but not as a scientific course. Stripping schools of religious-flavored ideas is not the way forward.

---

I know you are not 'forcing' me...I was just kidding around. I pay attention to politics & interact with all kinds of people so it helps inform (not necessarily shape) my 'religious beliefs'. Someone who's lived in a village in Ogun state, it'd be hard to expect them to take all these other aspects into consideration. Make sense? And trust me, there are way more ppl who read on NL than comment so threads like this one you made helps, so you too, keep it up .
And dude, you're not comparing fighting for gay marriage even close to the league of Hitlers murderous reign? stop it oh lol.

There is no debate between me and you. We already agree on most parts on this issue. My only issue is the small difference between civil unions and full marriage.

As for gay people being a minority, it is irrelevant. Gay marriage will be accepted fully in Europe before we both have grandchildren that can vote.

As for evolution being a theory, a scientific theory has a more precise defintion compared to the general defintion of theory.

Sorry for the Hitler comparision

It pains me that I can't exactly bash you since we both agree to a certain degree. I'm off to troll strong-headed christians, they always like a good bashing before they grudgingly accept they're wrong!

Goshen360: This is outright rubbish. When we start to talk against them, some will quickly remind us of touch not my anointed forgetting this same anointed is bringing shame to the name of God. Rubbish.

Nice, for once, you are accepting some negative truth of your religion

davidylan: Neither is there proof or verifiable evidence to the contrary, that man and his planet is merely a product of chance. A statistical impossibility.

Agreed. The day 1 origin of life has not been found. Big bang is just there

However, there is verifiable evidence for evolution which debunks your religion

Logic Mind: jesoul will probably ban you if she doesn't agree with you.
or has she been tamed?

Calm down. Jesoul might have messed with you. Just let it go.


If you want revenge, there is a way to do it peacefully and not through trolling with spite. Look at what I did to Tbaba and Big4050. I destroyed them intellectually through debate on creationism.

Debating is fair.

JeSoul: but why? why don't you instead ask the other side to come closer to my belief? I'm for live & let live - and don't force me to believe what you believe - which is exactly what gay marriage proponents are demanding of the general populace.

Ah! wetin concern agbero with overload? Haven't you seen how many issues christians disagree amongst themselves? tithes, speaking in tongues, sabbath, women, etc etc. abeg oh, me I prefer to mind my business and stay out of the firing range for sanity sake.

You know what I mean. I am not forcing you. You just seem like someone that is enlightened about this issue.


Anyway, this is what gave Hitler rise to power. There were people in government who didnt like him but left him to rise in power as long as they lost nothing. There is no harm in having a simple discussion withsome of your close friends on this issue when they break out in homophobic tirades.

Please, I am not forcing you. I accept your position on this issue but only as a compromise

JeSoul: You guys have been asking all the questions, my turn.

Emofine & Logicboy,
1- Do you agree that gays are a relative minority in most soceities? (pls discount their capital of San Franscisco ).
2- What percentage of non-gays fully support the gay agenda? (lets use the western world for this part)
2- What do you think about minority views being imposed on a majority that may not agree?
3- What would your "ideal" soceity look like in regards to a)gay rights and b)religion

Cheers.

1) Yes, a minority

2) I'm guessing a very high percentage if not all gays that would support gay marriage. Who wants to be alone?

3) Blacks are also minorities. They "imposed" their views to get equal rights too. MLK (Luther King) had a black agenda which majority of whites did not agree with for years

4) Ideal society;

a) Gay marriage allowed and given same status with marriage. Gay couples having the same right to adopt.

b)Religion should not interfere with politics. Separation of church and state. People can worship how they like without oppressing other people. Evolution in schools while creationism thrown out.

JeSoul: Lol. I'll take that

And with good reason. If Massachusetts wants to recognize gay couples - great for us. But we cannot force Northcarolinans to accept what we have deemed "marriage". Let every society decide for themselves, not a minority imposing their choices on others. Revert back to what I said about supporting individual states making their own laws.


Oh common now Logic, you're being nitpicky. lol. Those kinds of looseness was reserved for powerful kings - one out of 1 million. The average dude (not necessarily jews) had just a dudette. Plus don't get me started on some aspects of culture of the ancient jews, I'm not their biggest fan.

The people living within the society have right to define for themselves - and so we see different states & even countries making up their own different rules. I'm fine with that. My personal opinion was what I gave in the second paragraph.

You're touching on several different issues here that will lead us elsewhere. Divorce rates have nothing in particular to do with the issue. If we were to go there I'd simply tell you a good majority of people who label themselves 'christian' are really not when looked at from the biblical definition. Hence we can easily adjust those rates to truly represent the actual figures...but I digress.

Yes gay couples have always been around - my point was two-fold. One about the occurence of it being much much greater and two, (and I guess this has been fueled by) societal 'acceptance' of it. Again on jewish culture - not the best standard for the rest of us to emulate.

One of the people who had an incredible influence on me and was just an all around wonderful human being was a white gay dude, a co-worker of mine years ago. It helped me go beyond defining people by mere labels.

Thank you for your input. However, I wold like you to take your belief on gay marriage just one little step further; move from civil unions to full marriage please.


Also, please try to educate some of our christian brothers on this issue. Please.

Here is evidence that the bible lies or worse, bears false witness;


Psalm 14:1
King James Version (KJV)
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.


So, the bible is telling me that all atheists are corrupt and have done abominable works? Is that not a lie?

Is Bill Gates, who is agnostic but doesnt believe in the Christian God a corrupt someone that doesnt do good? Bill Gates does a lot of charity and research in Africa.


Are people that set up atheist charities to help poor people evil and corrupt?


Are 64% of Japan, an atheistic nation any more corrupt than Nigeria (48% christian) ?


Is the bible not lying and bigoted towards atheists?

Mr_Anony: What do you mean by believing in the Christian sense? please explain

A statistician can believe that a president will get reelected based on polls that show that the president has a better favorability. The polls are not 100% accurate and always have a margin of error. This is belief based on a probability. A calculated and provable probability

A christian believes in God that will save them. There is no proof or verifiable evidence to this belief. It is just guess work based on another guess work called the bible.

JeSoul: I support the rights of individual states to decide for themselves. As long as the people vote and decide - not over-reaching Justices in courts making their own personal amendments to the constitution. In my own state of Mass, we were the first to legalize gay marriage in the country.

What do I personally think? I support Civil Unions - so they can enjoy the same societal 'rights' and 'priviledges' married heterosexual couples enjoy - insurance, healthcare etc etc. I am not for re-defining the term marriage, it should remain "a man and a woman". This gives them the rights they clamour for, while maintaining the integrity of a institution that has been in place since the stone-age.

Well, you are more civil than some christains on this issue.


However, a civil union is not the same as marriage as civil unions have less rights in America. Civil unions do not have access to federal benefits since states that offer civil unions can only give state rights.

Furthermore, let's breakdown yourstatement;


I am not for re-defining the term marriage, it should remain "a man and a woman". This gives them the rights they clamour for, while maintaining the integrity of a institution that has been in place since the stone-age.


a) Marriage has not always been between a man and a woman, even in the bible. Solomon and other people had more than one wives. They were polygamous
b) Who has the right to define the term? Is it you? Your God? Your government? The people? Everyone? Your definition might not be the proper definition
c)Marriage has had no integrity since the stoneage;
-there were religions before the bible or judaism which would have their own marriage rites
-there was polygamy in the bible by the wisest man in the bible (no integrity there)
-there was incest marriage in the bible (Abraham and Sarah were step brother and sister)
-there have always been gay couples since the stoneage
-christians have higher divorce rates in America




However, I am happy with your stance since you recognise the rights of gay people. Kudos

brainpulse: Then attack the people behind it. Kill the diseases not the symptom. If symptom persist see your physician.

All Christians are not bad, all athiests are not bad. However, the 3 main religions are consistently evil towards unbelievers

Then the problem is not the religion the problem is with the people practicing it.

The religious books are bad. It is the religion that is mostly to blame, not the people. Get rid of the religion not the people

punnonline: it would be like teaching a 50 year old to write with his left hand because your mind is already programd to your beliefs.from your first post its obvious you are 100% atheist and u dont want anything else so why waste my breath?
I can answer those doubts but its pointless now.
No one hates you at least i dont, if you are comfortable where you are then enjoy it!

Anyone can write with their left hand/right hand with enough practice (Sorry, besisdes the point of the thread)


Just answer the question!!!!

JeSoul: @topic,

funny enough I watched some detailed coverage on this story on CNN just this past saturday morning - including an interview with that pastor from NC.

Let me first guarantee you, in spite of what the media might say, there is no "shift" towards "accepting" "gay rights" by the black church. That is merely wishful propaganda from the media that is not representative of the entire AA populace. See a quote from your own link:



30 to 33 percent in 11 years is barely a "shift" wouldn't you say? and it probably falls within the %error of the polls (most polls have at least a 3-4% error). But, the key question in that quote above is why are some pastors against the legislation?
#1- They choose to see it as a political rather than religious issue.
#2- and most most importantly - they see it as a republican bill.

Everyone knows rocks will bleed blue before blacks who are I think ~90% democrat will lend their support to a republican legislation - furthermore a republican legislation initiated by Tea Party activists! AA's vote democrat - overwhelmingly and even when there's a bill they might support, they won't simply becos its a republican one. The pastor interviewed on CNN pretty much said as much and I paraphrase "we should be very careful about giving our support to groups who have historically been against us regardless of the bill".

You are right on this issue. However, what do you personally think about gay marriage?

ea7: punnonline and brainpulse, you can adress my post and show me how I am wrong, or you can launch more ad hominems so I can be certain I am right.

Sorry for derailing your thread. You know where stand, Ea7. Oya, Punnonline and rainpulse, answer the question!!!

brainpulse: @boy

Better put a "world without human being". Do all atheist do good, Do all atheist do bad?

All christians are not bad, all athiests are not bad. However, the 3 main religions are consistently evil towards unbelievers






Lol. Theocracy is always bad. The bible/koran/talmud are always homophobic and intolerant towards unbelievers. The 3 major religions are consistently evil in theory.

brainpulse: Then why are you so bothered and disturbed on something you believed doesn't exist.

Because people who believe in this non-existent God are programmed to hate me and be violent towards me as an atheist by their God and religion


Bigotry against atheist in the bible;

"1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."

Psalm 14;1

The bible is bearing false witness against me. I work as a volunteer in an African charity for children out of my freewill, yet I have no good in my heart

Ptolomeus: Exactly.
The Catholic Church saw Africans as animals ... This is the church officially declared.
Then there were some efforts to the contrary, but the responsibility for the crimes and torture can not be denied or redemption.

Gracias Amigos.

They want to deny the evil that christianity has done

punnonline: what-s biting you? whatever you own your mouth and i own mine so speak ur mind and dont expect me to agree.i know who i am, and im not a confused bag of gabbage.

God doesnt exist. You are confused

LeoMax: Sodomy is madness!!!!!

Well that's your opinion. Not surprising that you have no points to back your statement up

Mr_Anony: logicboy, There is a world of difference between believing and guessing. Christianity is not brainwashing. No one can convert anyone by coercion. It is either you believe in The Lord Jesus Christ or you don't. Anyone forced to accept Christ is not truly a Christian.

There is no difference in believing (in the christian sense) and guessing.

You believe that there is a God with no evidence whatsoever

You guess that there is a God with no evidence whatsoever

punnonline: just get yourself a job so'll u have better things to do.
Your thoughts are yours alone am sure if u had a good job the last thing on your mind would be disputing God you are nothing before him and can never change his person no matter d forums you post this rubbish.

Hypocrite. It goes both ways; if you had a good job you wouldnt be here telling off the OP

Finally black people are getting the memo. African American pastors are convincing church members to oppose a bill in North Carolina that will ban gay marriage. African Americas do not generally support gay marriage although there has been a rise from 30% to 33% who support it.

I am very happy that people are embracing equality more and more. I support gay marriage because everyone should have the right to get married. As someone that has been denied marriage because I'm an atheist and my girlfriend is muslim (Koran forbids such unions).

What do you think about this shift in christianity and black people towards gay rights?

http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=11724&MediaType=1&Category=26
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/nc-black-pastor-treads-carefully-on-gay-marriage/2012/05/03/gIQADt5bzT_story.html

plaetton: Yess indeed. i did mistake you for logic mind.
My apologies.
I will make the correction.

No probs

Mr Anony, there is much we agree on, which is a good start.


However, the part where I mentioned the brainwashing of sheep is correct. Christianity is brainwashing at its finest. God may or may not exist and there is no shred of evidence to prove God exists. How can we do things in the name of a God that we are GUESSING exists.

plaetton: @logicboy.
You seem to be on this forum for a different reason than most of us. You have a habit of hurling unwarranted insults at our most respected veterans of this forum. You seem to be very angry at everyone. Are you suffering from some type of rejection syndrome or is it just youthful exuberance?
I like to think that we are all here to learn, not to win converts or fight any imaginary enemies.
You need to show humility, otherwise, your bellicose and pugnacious attitude will obscure whatever intelligent contributions you are trying to make on this forum.

Heed.

I am not angry at everyone. I dont know who is who here. I am just here to debate but if anyone wants to insult me, I insult back in twofold.


Are you sure that you're not mistaking me for logic mind? Logic mind is less patient with the christians here on NL because he knows them.

Deep Sight: Palaver. Thought I was helping your inquiries. You are welcome sha. Good luck.

Sorry.

Atheists: These guys don't have the moral authority to condemn Boko Haram !

No difference at all! They both like violence against unbelievers