₦airaland Forum

Jenwitemi: Logicboy, scientifically, the missing link between ape and man is yet to be found and that is because there is none. The only remaining explanation is that primates of some sort was genetically altered artificially to become man. Targeted mutation, if you will.

Please read about human transitional fossils. I'm tired of posting the same thing over and over again. Evolution is a well grounded theory accepted by most scienitsts. Let me direct you to my previous post;

logicboy: 1) Monkeys and human beings have a common ancestors

2) Speciation is the evolutionary process by which new biological species arise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation).

3) Humans and monkeys speciated apart from our common ancestors over four million years ago. Different species, same family

4) That is why monkeys or gorillas can not evolve into humans presently. Humans will give birth to more evolved humans and monkeys will give birth to more evolved monkeys.

5)The evidence for this is shown with human transitional fossils of the early humans. A transitional fossil is any fossilized remains of a life form that exhibits traits common to both an ancestral group and its derived descendant group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil).


Human transitional fossils


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M96bkdohMZE

ckkris: The RELIGION OF ATHEISM appeals only to the implacably wicked. When they sneak into church they start apartheid, segregation, homosexual marriage, and all abominable practices.. Still there is hope. WE WILL NOT GIVE UP ON THEM. JESUS IS LORD.

[img]http://1.bp..com/-umOZ-_2Cg6k/T6OdsHRvZOI/AAAAAAAAAD8/LOG4aCksvn4/s320/Oblivious%2BApologist.JPG[/img]

ckkris: The RELIGION OF ATHEISM appeals only to the implacably wicked. When they sneak into church they start apartheid, segregation, homosexual marriage, and all abominable practices.. Still there is hope. WE WILL NOT GIVE UP ON THEM. JESUS IS LORD.

The lunacy of christians-

calling people wicked while discriminating against gays.

Image123: Go and look for them.

Coward

Syenite: Let's look at this one as scientists.Yes, the processes that started the formation of the sun started just shortly before the processes that led to the formation of the earth.Do you consider how long it took the processes of formation of the Sun to come to a completion? Do you think that immediately the process started the rays from the sun became so large and bright enough to illuminate the solar system? I am telling you that For several millions of years after the earth was created the sun was at a primitive (not well developed) state. Hence, the light or rays being generated was not adequate to reach the earth, considering the distance of the earth from the sun.So the earth was left in the dark until the sun's rays were bright enough to light up the whole place. Think about that. The bible does not lie.

lol....the sun got it's powerful rays of light to earth through a scientific process taking millions of years. Doesnt that contradict the instantaneous "let there be light and there was light"?

Syenite: My brother, the Earth was in darkness for several millions of years before sunlight came. Find out more. Argue like a scientist.

I dont know what you're talking about. But your fellow scientists say that the sun is older than the earth. End of story. Genesis fails- God did not create the earth before the sun

ijawkid: I am christian remember??

True christianity started by christ,d early apostles and d 1st century followers never engaged nor encouraged warfare...

Infact Jesus was against war....u dig??

""Turn d other chick""
""Those who kill by d sword die by it""
""A servant of God does not need to fight""(2timothy 2:24)
""We have a spiritual warfare not physical""

All 1st century christians never engaged in either world wars,tribal wars,national wars etc....

False christianity did!!!!!!!

U can go back to history to confirm it...


And may I ask u,who are those producing d nuclear weapons,jet fighters,biological weapons etc?

Russians are good @ that and I am so damn sure that russians are atheists...

Remember God will do away with any ruining d earth.....

I want to live in a world where badness in its entirety will be a thing of d past..

False religion,atheists.all those who don't want to confirm to Gods standard are those ruining this earth and there end is approaching....

Slavery in the new and old testaments;


Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves."

Romans 13:1-5

Titus 3:1,
"Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good."

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Col 3:22
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."

1 Cor 7:21-22
"21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave."

Eph 6:5
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
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Genocide in the old testament;

Kill Men, Women, and Children
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
==============================================================================

Witch Killing more brutal than Oyedepo's slaps

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
==============================================================================


The top peaceful countries are atheistic countries or countries with a very secular government


https://tony-ridley.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Top-10-Most-Peaceful-Countries.2010.png

emöfine2: Once upon a time I asked amongst scarce replies. . .

Could not the being in which believers call god manifest itself in contextually relevant ways to all people at all time?

Is it not ironic that an "omnipresent" god according to some faiths can only be truthfully conveyed via one context from a particular period?

This is getting old.

If you christians can not logically defend your religion, why not just come out and say that your religion is false? Isnt that better than ignoring questions that you know will debunk your faith?

Syenite: The Moon is believed to have formed about 4.6 billion years ago, with the rocks from mare regions sampled by the Apollo astronauts indicating a formation age for these features of about 4.1 billion years. The Earth is dated at 4.7 billion years ago by radioactive dating techniques. The Sun's formation probably continued through the era of planetary formation and ended when it became a T-Tauri star. Its accretion from the rotating core of the proto-solar disk probably began just before 4.7 billion years, and ended around 4.2 billion years.

http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q1895.html

The accretion that led to the formation of the Sun Started just before 4.7bilion yrs ago and ended around 4.2 billion years ago.Is that making sense to u my bro? Being that the sun started forming almost when the earth was created and it took 0.5billion yrs ie 500million for the sun to develop completely, it shows that for several millions of years the earth was in darkness waiting for the sun to be fully developed.

beating around the bush!

The sun is older than the earth and your fellow scientist accept that. End of story. This makes Genesis wrong.

ckkris: Logicboy.
Please prove how you evolved from monkey.

1) Monkeys and human beings have a common ancestors

2) Speciation is the evolutionary process by which new biological species arise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation).

3) Humans and monkeys speciated apart from our common ancestors over four million years ago. Different species, same family

4) That is why monkeys or gorillas can not evolve into humans presently. Humans will give birth to more evolved humans and monkeys will give birth to more evolved monkeys.

5)The evidence for this is shown with human transitional fossils of the early humans. A transitional fossil is any fossilized remains of a life form that exhibits traits common to both an ancestral group and its derived descendant group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil).


Human transitional fossils


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M96bkdohMZE

tbaba1234: 1.) First of all, you have to look at history... The reason there was a separation of church and state was the failure of the church to rule in the west.... Muslims have a far different history; Muslims were at their best when Islam was properly practised and began to decline when the system became corrupt and Islam was taken away.. The dark ages in Europe under christian rule were the golden ages of Islam....

So a muslim would not accept that it is better because Islam worked for us better before colonialism and the secularization of muslim states.

2.) I am sure you can have your debate in an Islamic states: In the early centuries; the muslims used to have debates with Jews and Christians but i suspect, you will probably become muslim after the debate.

You as a non-muslim man can not guarantee your muslim wives' rights:: No matter how much you say you will ... You have no religious obligation to..

Islam is about Justice to everyone... There are limits to freedoms but it is for your own good...

Haha, do you seriously believe that I will ever become a muslim? If most muslims were like you, yes Islam would be an option. Unfortunately it is not so.

"You as a non-muslim man can not guarantee your muslim wives' rights:: No matter how much you say you will ... You have no religious obligation to..
"

What do you mean by the above statement?


Furthermore, I want to make it clear that I do not support everything the West is doing. I might be espousing liberal ideas but I am not a one trick pony. I know where freedom ends.

emöfine2: In the absence of religion, harmony will still be elusive. Once upon a time that experiment was conducted in Eastern Europe. Remember the Soviet Union? (Although that was a dictatorship).

Some of the wildest fanatics I have ever had the displeasure of encountering were a couple of English football fans.

Some of us will fiercely fight and protect that in which we support or believe in be it religion or otherwise.

Humans and emotions eh. . . hmmm can emotions guide us to the/a truth?

Without religion how much of culture will be left?







Lol if the population of the world all happened to be either Muslim or Christian (aside from varying denominations which may cause friction) what then will be the point of heaven and hell?
If everyone won the lottery the prize will be meaningless? Do we all win or Do we all lose?



Now this is an interesting question.

If we were all atheists would we accord exclusive ownership of "Christmas" to Santa Claus?

Even within each demographic there is diversity, and hence there are degrees in each class. Atheists are humans so as humans atheists will still exercise faith (not in the legitimacy of a god(s)) but in man, lovers, art etc.

We may actually be more divided without "religion".



Another interesting question.

However I'm relieved that mankind is not exclusively one or the other....despite the disharmony and arguments if not for theology, science, philosophy, unbelievers and believers etc some of us may have been complacent in whatever we've been told and not be motivated/challenged to independently seek, confirm search for answers/truth.

Wrong.

Remove religion, and we would still have wars. However, we would have less wars. Atheism 1 Religion 0

The most peaceful countries are atheistic or secular ones. Atheism 1 Religion 0




Fruthermore, we can see European countries that are almost Utopian. There is no religious country that is near to that.

Syenite: I am a Geologist by professioning, been practising for over 7years part of which I majored in Micropaleontology which deals with study of ancient life and dating of rocks.So this topic is my Baby.There is a near 100% correlation between what the bible says and what Geology says.
Take for instance in Genesis Chapter 1 vs 1-2: the bible says in the Begining God created the heavens and the Earth. Now the Earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3."darkness was over the surface of the deep" Moses could be discribing the "deep" as the various depressions, valleys, rifts etc. Darkness here means there was no sunlight. Geologically, the Earth is older than the Sun. Which means the Earth was existing in Darkness before God said let there be light.



7 Verse 11-12 of Genesis:1 describes creation of plants and Vegetation, Verse 20 describes the creation of the birds, Verse 21 God Created Sea creatures, verse 24 God created Land creatures. and finally verse 26 God said Let us make man. The Geologists should look at the Geological time scale following the evolution of life and events sequence from Paleozoic to Recent and see if it does not tally with the sequence as described from Genesis 11-26!

9 All the earth quakes, Tsunamis, Hurricans, Volcanic Eruptions of today have been in existence for millions years and were created by God and not Geologists!!

I believe in the Almghty God - the Maker of the Heavens and the Earth.
I rest my case for now. Any questions? Criticisms are welcomed.

NAPE-Our Ideas find Oil and Gas!

3) The Sun is older than the earth, scientifically

7) Evolution shows that man was not created. The bible claims that man was created. Man evolved from a common ancestor with monkeys.

9) You accept that God is a murderer of innocent people with Tsunamis and earthquakes in poor countries

tbaba1234: I am not equating anything; i am just showing the hypocrisy of people...

You are free to practice your faith or lack of it; No one is compelling you....Jews and christians are given their own legal structure in the state, so they are not bound by the sharia penal system... How many countries today give religious groups that much autonomy?

However, you must recognize that this is a theocratic state, the laws are based on the faith: Attempts to discredit the religion is treasonable... so leaving the faith is one thing; going around to tell people how 'wrong' Islam is, is another... when the two meet, you have a charge:: otherwise, you continue with your life..

Even then , there is no sentence:: the person charged is given the opportunity to clear doubts by speaking to knowledgeable people, he has an opportunity to relent even if he does not believe:: go home and continue with his disbelief jeje..

No secular system offers that::

It is simple really: I would rather talk about the oneness of God because penal codes are not what Islam is about;;;

Secular countries of today (European and America) have two things better than any sharia law accepting country

1) Separation of church and state

2) Freedom of religion and associaition. No Islamic country offers that. Would any islamic state accept my marriage to muslim girlfriend? Woulld any islamic state allow me to gather a group of mulims to explain why atheism is better? I can do all these things in a secular state but not an islamic state, yet you say islam is freedom? Islam means to submit- there is no freedom.

2good: Nice one logic boy. Quite funny. I used to like that game with my life in the 90's

me too but i was like 3 years old then. Still play the lates street fighter till today

tbaba1234: My analogy was not only peculiar to the communist regime even the Americans were guilty.

People try to play: Apostasy law is so terrible even when given the full context when just a few years ago (cold war), the CIA (the home of the free) will assassinate the president of another country because he didn't agree with their ideology .....

What is ridiculous? It is an Islamic state not a secular state... We see what secular states do and they do not even give people the benefit of a trial..

Once the historical context, the conditions and the full understanding of the apostacy, it does makes sense...

If you do not proselytize your disbelief, no one will disturb you...

You're equating islam to a corrupt capitalist country (USA) or a brutal communist country (soviet russia)



"If you do not proselytize your disbelief, no one will disturb you... "

Wrong....this is 2012 in the 21st century, freedom of religion is a human right. Even in the Koran- let there be no compulsion in religion

2good: Its a matter of choice. A friend told me his father refused to accept a job with Nigerian breweries in the 80's because he is a Christian while his fellow close Christian friend accepted the job. Today, the father regretted his action because things are hard for him, while his father's friend rose along the ranks of the company and have worked as expatriate in different part of the world and currently a top shot in the company. Whatever you do in life, just be ready to bear the consequence of your action.

Also your name reminds me of Street Fighter

Have you heard of pastor Zangief


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeP6l3JDBrw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLKP-gnHk_o

Image123: Not all christians are debaters, there's more to life than debates. Go and look for christian apologists if you're looking for endless 'debates'.

There's more to life than preaching. Preaching is a one-sided debate.

Christian apologist prefer websites to forums. They put their message up and just want people to only read it.

OLAADEGBU: By who?

Jesus was a Jew. Without the old testament, there is no Jesus.

Image123: ^i'm not exactly talking about myself. i'm talking in general. There are millions of topics, it's not every topic you want to discuss, and it's not everybody you want to discuss a particular topic with. It's not even everytime you want to discuss a particular topic.

Agreed.

However, christians normally go into ignore mode if their religion is challenged in any topic

Tbaba, dont you realise that you're equating your religion to a communist regime? Is that not wrong?

I try my best not to bash your religion because you're one of the few guys that patiently tries to answer my questions. However, you have too see that apostasy laws and balsphemy laws are ridiculous and unfair.

ckkris: Logicboy.
Deduce that, please. You definitely know a lot of stuff.

1) Fail 1- Satanic atheist is an oxymoron

2) Fail 2- The old testament did not establish any eternal facts. Man was not created and dinosaurs did not fit into the ark and people can not live for 900 years

ckkris: 2good.
When satanic atheists join church, and always insist on being church leaders, they would neither read nor understand truth. Old Testament established eternal facts, among them, that the earth is round.
2good, if you no fit see solar system in the Bible, please look again.

What is a satanic atheist?

You make no sense

Image123: Lazy and ignorant analysis. Ever heard of christian apologists? Not everybody has the same inclinations and likes. That you know something does not necessarily mean you love to teach it, discuss it or talk about it, especially on a forum. There are very much more important things

Everybody has to defend their claims. If you're a christian saying hat your religion is good, be prepared to answer why it is good. If you're a christian that doesnt disturb anybody, then no one should disturb you.

However, the bolded part of our quote shows that you're a hypocrite. You come here to preach and so, you can not claim that you do not love to discuss or talk about you religion.

Is this not you preaching about good children and god/the bible;
https://www.nairaland.com/564760/parents-give-us-good-children

lilkech: how can a sane human being liken him/herself to t'iger head finger battery' ?


as in ehn, what do you think will happen to this life you are living now (your ups and downs, loves and hates, good and evil, wars and peace, friends and enemies, family and all other strangers e.t.c) once you die ?


is it that you just go blank ? enter into a state of nothingness ? as in at that time you take your last breath do you think that you just go 'OFF' ?


as much as all i stated above seem true according to our common sense, physical earthly science and nature I STILL CHOOSE TO DIFFER because i was born with with the elements of HOPE, FAITH and an UNCOMMON sense .

something has to happen to this life you and me are currently living after we die


please if you do/do not believe in God and wish to convert someone, go to the person or get the person to come to you and then make your business clear to them. do not do so here as your seriousness wont be seen

if you claim you are an atheist but in reality you are not . . . i pray God forgives this 'life' you are living now


bone say dis na internet, dat baba wey dey the SUPERNATURAL world dey look u

Nobody knows what we face when we die and to claim that we live after we die is rubbish.

There is no rule stopping anyone from converting someone here on the internet or on nairaland.

You were not born with faith. You were born an atheist. As a baby, you knew nothing about God. Someone told you about god when you were growing up

musKeeto: Someone drops Islam and Christians ensure the topic gets to 33 pages in a desperate attempt to 'convert'... wonders indeed shall never end

As usual, you always come in and support the side that you favour in a particular argument. Must be the benefit of being a cowardly agnostic. On one side, you bash the atheists and when you feel like, you bash the religious.

Stop acting all high an mighty or you might fall

Jenwitemi: Not necessarily when one think deep enough about it. Mankind would only find other means of dividing itself against itself and keeps on spilling it's own blood. Religion is not the root cause of man's problems, it only helps to magnify them and keep them going. Religion is the grave symptom (one of many) of the root cause of man's woes.

As long as man cannot recognize, face and solve his inner trauma, his inner fragmentation, he will always be at conflict with himself no matter what he creates, religion or otherwise. Man is gravely sick and he does not fully know it yet.

Religion is a cause of war. It is just that it is not the only cause. Remove religion and there would be less wars. There would still be wars but there would be less.

ijawkid: Its time to blame religion right


Altho I have never supported wars more or else wars perpatrated by professed christians....

Its against Christs principles..

Definitly false christianity will engage in genocides,wars and other vices that has added to mans mystery...


One thing I knw is Jesus will repudiate those who have engaged in blood shed all in his name..

They will not inherit Gods kingdom..

So atheists I have to agree wit u on this 1 that false religion has done so much harm than good...

But logic boy the phones we r using that are been produced by atheists are soon to give us brain tumors and cancer....lol

The ozone layer depleted by ur guys r rili gonna cause us problems...

In all every human who has and don't wanna obey Gods word wether professed godlike persons or atheists has added to d worlds wahala...

As usual, you always bring wrong arguments.


1) Holy war is supported in the bible. Christians like you dont read the bible.

2) You claim that all the bad things done by christians (eg slavery, genocide, burning witched) are done because they are fake christians. However;
a) Slavery, genocide of unbelievers and burning witches are all supported in the bible
b) It is also simple to counter-claim that all the good things done by christians were not done because they were christians but human beings


2) Most scientists are atheists. You claim that the mobile phones that scientists creates gives us cancer. No, mobile phens have a very littl chance of giving people cancer. Furthermore, why dont you mention the benefits of the mobile phone? Is it because you cant dial God's number as he doesnt exist. What about other things that scientists have done for you? medicine? Aeroplanes etc.

some-girl:
As a Christian, I don't know why I would would want to annoy an atheist or anyone...perhaps give them food for thought. "Annoying" them would be unproductive.

What food for thought would that be?

tbaba1234: There is no inherited rule under Islamic law first of all, The leader must get the alleigance of all the region/tribes to rule. Were there inherited leadership in Islamic empires? yes but that is not the rule...

Stop talking as if you know the first thing about an Islamic system:: There are no checks and balances?? really?? Why does the leader have to get approval from all the regions and tribes then??

During the cold war, the communist who defected to the other side was deemed treasonable.... Why do you think that was? Was he overthrowing the state? If he started to promote an idea other than communism in the state, what do you think will happen to him? They would not think twice about executing him..


Let me give you a brief explanation of the Islamic system

The leader or the Head of State under the Islamic system of government is the Mujtahid who satisfies all the criteria required, (in the case of there being a single Mujtahid.)

These powers may only be “in the hands” of the Head of State if the majority of the public agrees to this and provided that such measures are taken as to ensure that there is no likelihood of this eventually leading to a system of dictatorship. It is of utmost importance to establish a system of party-political
pluralism in the country.

Legislation is made by consultation: Islam teaches us to run a government, to make legislation and decisions by the process of Shura. Shura means "to take decisions by consultation and participation" (3:159, 42:38). This is an important part of the Islamic political system. There is no scope for despotism in Islam. The Qur’an and the Sunnah will be the basis of legislation in Islam.

So there is a shura council>> So he has no arbitrary powers:: Does that sound like a Monarchy?

Independence of judiciary.

In the Islamic political system, the Judiciary is independent of the Executive. The head of the state or any government minister could be called to the court if necessary. They would be treated no differently from other citizens. The Qur’an has many injunctions about justice. One of the main functions of the Islamic state is to ensure justice to all citizens (4:58, 4:135, 5:. The ruler and the government has no right to interfere in the system of justice.

(check : http://imamshirazi.com/the%20islamic%20system.pdf, http://www.angelfire.com/bc3/johnsonuk/eng/dawa/politic.html for more)

An Islamic state is based on the model of Prophet Muhammad’s (phuh) state in Madinah while a Muslim state is one which has a majority Muslim population and some Islamic features.

The basic islamic system is NOT like a monarchy.

The Islamic system does not expressly forbid non-muslims from ruling but i doubt a non-muslim can get the allegiance of a majority muslim population. It does not forbid them from political participation. Infact it goes a step further.. It allows them to make a decision on the laws that govern them in the muslim state.

In the Islamic state, the jewish and christian communities adhere to their own laws and have their own courts with full autonomy . you don't get that in the US for religious groups.

The armenian genocide has nothing to do with Islam, it wasn't always like that.... The empire was already in decline; they committed atrocities, they were corrupt... This led to an internal revolt that destroyed it.

You just need to go further in time to see how Jewish and christian groups thrived under Islamic rule... The final (and decaying) years of the Ottoman empire is not a fair assessment of Islamic rule. The Ottoman existed for 700 years....

Tbaba, I was once offered a job in finace to an islamic country. I can only imagine now if I went there and converted my muslim girlfriend to an atheist, she could have been killed under the apostasy law.

Do you really expect non-muslims to give islam a chance once they get to know about such a law?

buzugee: sounds like the perfect life. a bit of both. best of both worlds.

What fockin perfect life? Would I be travelling to UK if my country was ok?

I cant even be an atheist in my own bleeping country.

buzugee: 6 months in UK 6 months in naija ?

Something like that. Most Nigerians do that