₦airaland Forum

vedaxcool: Lol,! Christianity will always come to aid atheism being a product of Christian dubious theology it funny just as david man god was forsaken his atheist ally forsook him and fled!

Ignorance

LagosShia: in saudi arabia,the system of governance is far from islamic.besides,even when muslims adhere to their islamic beliefs,you still imagine they dont do so out of sincere belief and devotion to the religion but out of compulsion.yet you want us to believe it is okay when norwegians hold inhuman beliefs that got their own children massacred but unreal for muslims to hold islamic beliefs.

I dont agree with Daviddylan on Breivik. I dont think Muslism should be killed in Europe or that Breivik's mad ideology is shared by many Norweigians.

Sorry for that

LagosShia: the translation you presented is wrong in more than one way.the verse says in the beginning:"men are maintainers of women" and does not describe men being "superior".also,the verse contains a word that could mean to "separate" instead of "to beat".going by the Quran alone,in the same chapter 4,the same word is used without need of translation to indicate "separation" (see verse 4:94).moreover,the verse itself and also in 2:231 present ways for a couple to reconcile instead of being in disagreement,quarrel or divorce.so it is illogical that reconcilation which is the spirit of the verse could be achieved by suggesting beating.

Is there any difference between "maintainers" or "superior". I am not a maintainer of my girlfriend neither her superior.

As for Daba in Koran 4;34, it clearly means "beat"

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/ArabChristian30907.htm

davidylan: this makes no sense. You wouldnt be here without naked ancestors who were cannibals either. Should we all conclude that going without clothes and eating each other is ok now?

You wouldnt have been here without polyandry either.

Society evolves with time.

Davidylan...please carry on. You seem to be handling Maclatunji properly.

LagosShia: other threads with the topic already discussed-please review:

https://www.nairaland.com/817561/devine-permition-beat-hit-ur

https://www.nairaland.com/545232/wife-beating-rules-muslims-take

Please dont make the same mistake that Tbaba made, that I havent read the Koran

LagosShia: I never knew Tbaba is the founder of a religion.what is the name of Tbaba's religion that have come to an end?

as for the "wife beating",there is nothing as such.

1.) The Quran goes against harming women

2.) Hadiths of the Prophet (sa) and the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) oppose "wife beating".

3.) Verse 4:34 is mistranslated and saying the Quran supports "wife beating" goes against the Quranic logic which suggests reconcilation rather than divorce between the couple.

in my subsequent post,i'd present the details.

Verse 4;34 is not mistranslated, it clearly means "beat" because it is the only action/word that fits into the scenario. What is the effect of "tapping lightly" a disobedient wife?

LagosShia: Sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (sa) against "wife beating":

1.) "Can you expect to hug your wife at night, having beaten her in the day time?"

2.) "I wonder about a man who beats his wife, while he himself deserves to be beaten more".

3.) "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

4.) "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

5.) " Do not beat Allah's handmaidens".

6.) "Those men who beat their wives are not the best among you".

Sorry, I am a strict Koranist and this is the verse that appalls me;

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is most high Koran 4;34

davidylan: Seriously? this is a most stupid fabrication, did you think no one would actually read the news piece? You claimed that the reason Breivik is no longer on the frontpage of the news is that newspapers are collectively trying to stifle the truth... but is that what your link said?

"Local papers lead with different stories as Norwegians tire of blanket coverage of biggest court case in country's history"

The news isnt on the frontpages because pple are tired and want to read something else not because of a conspiracy to stifle the news. Moooslims and their flippant disregard for the truth.

Maclatunji, you got caught lying.


@ Davidylan, see the benefit of being an atheist? When it's time to bash muslims, I have christians on my side and vice-versa.

vedaxcool: Equality without reason is more like equality for de-reason. It is extremely silly for one to expect you or anyone to understamd anything for a variety of reasons, that you like other atheist are here for whining sorry winning not reasoning. As do you knw inequality occurs in millions of ways in our society? That the president has the previlege to know state secrets etc leaving the millions that gave him the power to govern ignorant in many ways take for instance his claim to knowing those behind boko haram yet left everyone else guessing. I ask did you demand equality of all before the law? Remember this is a more important issue involving your security! You see people like you are guided by any higher course that is why you demands of equality will always be founded with inequity. Why did Islam permit men to marry non muslim women but forbid women for doing such? This issue has been trashed over and over again on NL, the simple answer is that Islam recognizes the rights of non muslim women married to men that is Islam permits say Christians married to muslim men to practice their faith, but on the other hand the rights of muslim woman is not protected by the bible hence her husband can simply restrict her rights to practice her religion irrespective of what you would personally do, Islam restriction of marriage of muslim woman to non muslim men is based on simple common sense. Again the issue of what religion will the children practice remains a confouding one, Islam recognises the man to be head of the family and most cultures\religions do likewise hence would a true muslim woman be willing to leave her child success in the hereafter in the hands of her non muslim husband? No hence because the woman cannot determine what religion her children will follow so follows the ruling that muslim women are specifically reserved for muslim men. I hope this finally put rest your constant whining over this same issue from thread to thread. Is it equality you can say yes or no but we can say this ruling on the issue are imposed mainly by external constraints rather than your flawed logic that Islam seeks to oppress women etc


Islam condition for plural marriages is treating your wives equally not loving them equally. Islam has a well laid down rule for inheritance have seen what inheritance has caused in single wife family take for instance that well know legal man Akintola Williams I heard his children are embroiled in serious tussle over his property, so blaming polygamy for fights that are even common in monogamous marriage is hardly a tangible point presentable anywhere and as for a woman marrying two husbands, well if you are married try selling the idea to your wife and see her reaction and then trying selling the idea in the reverse to a guy the difference is clear. A common way of disproving this demand rooted in illogical foundation is to ask would it have been easy knowing which husband had what child in such situation? Unlike plural marriage every wife clearly have her own child so the. Question remains which is more sensible if compared? Again woman are more prone to infectious disease in such dual husband marriage or multiple husband marriage, leaving us to wonder whether u have not heard cervical case is found more in women that have multiple partners? Man your case have too much holes . . . And the quran did say marry only one, no other religious book give such advice even the bible with tales of plural marriages.


Islamically, there remains no compulsion in religion hence anybody that wants to convert is free to do so as Allah says truth stands out from error, I don't knw why anybody should be executed for their disbelief except offcourse the person converts and then uses it as a sort of propaganda against Islam and the state. On blasphemy law, go to Germany and deny the holocaust and then call their laws ridiculous that you hold nothing sacred does not mean others don't and more so most Europeans countries will lock u up from holding your own opinion on the holocaust issue and evem sharing it mr equality have u ever demanded equality outside the marriage issue?


Lies Islam gives the husband the head of the family and allows him to light tap his wife if she goes out of normal behavior,that is a man. Is allowed to discipline his wife in a sensible manner, and the woman is given the right to divorce her husband if she fears he will treat her illy or is to harsh on her. Equal balance of power I would say. Islam support human rights that would lead to the betterment of humanity not to the debasement of man that we see humanity retrogrades morally due to the fooleries of misunderstanding of what this rights entail take that rape remains at an all time high in the land of the "free" because they imprisoned the "free" with Indecency making them slaves to their animal instincts rather than improving their mind well being take that in the land of the "free" 98% of cases that a man suspect his kids arten't his and decides to do a paternity test always comes out to confirm his fears are founded. Ye human rights that are wrongs.

Allow me to destroy your argument for the Koran, please;

1) Blasphemy laws- You claim that holocaust denial is an example of a blasphemy that will be punished. No. People died horribly because of Hitler. There are people whose families were destroyed and Germany has a stain forever on their history. Holocuast denial is not only stupidity but also racist towards Jews. Holocaust denial is hate speech and racist. Some western countries have laws against it, some dont. Hate speech is illegal because it can arouse hate and be used to target certain people. This is not a victimless crime

Blasphemy laws in both christianity and Islam on the other hand is totally different from Holocaust denial. If I say that "Allah is evil" must I be punished? Who is the victim here? Can Allah not defend himself? Must Allah be defended by Blasphemy laws? How does criticism work if a religion is hidden under blasphemy laws? If I say Allah is evil because he created both good and evil, is that a reason to be punished or is it fair criticism?


2) Men and women should be treated equally. If a man can marry a non-mulsim, a woman should also be allowed. Why should the Koran deny a muslim woman the right to marry a non-muslim but give a man the right? What is the Koran's business with me and my muslim girlfriend? If we are both in love and have enough money to support ourselves, why should Allah/Koran/Muslims deny me love?


3) As for beating of wives, the translation is not "tap lightly". Even if it means "tap lightly", why should you touch your wife when both of your are in disagreement. What does tapping lightly do? The Koran is justifying the beating of women. If I have a disobedient wife, the best I can do is talk to her. Of what use is tapping her?

In that context, "beating" is the only proper translation that fits because the Koran is talking about a disobedient wife. Tapping lightly does not make sense in that context. People either argue or fight when they are in disagreement.


4)Polygamy is obsolete. You say that normal couples have problems, then why multiply the problem with two wives? Polyandry is even more better than polygamy as there would be less children with the same chance of STD (sexually transmitted disease). A polygamy of 3 people have the same chance/rate of infection with a polyandry of 3.

maclatunji: I know people like you. You have been brainwashed to scream equality all the time. Did George Orwell not tell you that: "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others"? What the gentleman was saying in essence is that the quest for equality is a farce! The great ideal that brings justice and fairness to all is Equity. Islam comes with equity in all things.

So my friend, you are not as enlightened as you would like to think.

I know people like you that lie about their religion.

I have experienced this personally! I have a muslim girlfriend that I can not get married to. My mulsim Pakistani butcher likes to toast my Nigerian christian sisters but frowns seriously when he sees me with my muslim girlfriend. I also was almost killed by a taxi driver because I told him that I have a muslim girlfriend. The Koran puts women below men which is shameful. It's not like he bible is better. My problem is not with muslims as there are many of my muslim friends who treat their wives with respect. My problem is with extremists who use the Koran to enslave people


The quest for equality is not a farce. Take time and travel to European countries like Sweden or Malta where life is easy. People have equal rights whether they are male, female, rich or poor. Their society is not perfect as some racism exists but no one can deny how peaceful and free these countries are.

Ptolomeus: Logicboy:
His reasoning is very clear, but (with the greatest respect for you) I think you are too optimistic Olaadegbu will not understand.

We can hope for Olaadegbu

Ptolomeus: This film cost him his life who filmed it.
http://loquenodije.lacoctelera.net/post/2007/12/02/un-cortometraje-sobre-violencia-contra-mujer-y-islam-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr6VHfsczLU


As hitting a woman in Islam - Rules


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_niR-KbiQ_s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1imoTZeiQ&feature=related


Best regards!

Do you live in Nigeria? Or you're in South America? I would love to speak spanish/portuguese

Kay 17: Hmmm. . . Incriminating BUT they are not real muslims. Besides you might get banned soon for not saying good things about Islam.

lol....I hope that I dont get banned though

OLAADEGBU: This is an article that debunks your theories.

Darwin's Day

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (2 Peter 2:1)

Thousands of clergy have signed "An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science." On the Sunday closest to Charles Darwin's birthday, these "pastors" eulogize him and endorse evolutionary science as compatible with the Bible. Here are five reasons why this idea is grossly wrong.

• The Bible has absolutely no hint of ages of evolutionary development. Forcing the "days" of Genesis 1 to mean "ages" can be done, but there is no support for that idea in the rest of Scripture (Psalm 33:6-9, 148:5-6; John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:3; Revelation 4:11; etc.).

• Evolution is not observed at all today. Empirical science is based on observation and verification. Nothing (from bacteria to people) is "evolving" into a "higher order." Period.

• Fossil data does not show any transitional forms. If evolution occurred prior to recorded history, it can only be documented by the fossils embedded in the water-deposited rocks of earth. Those "missing links" are still missing.

• God's character absolutely forbids evolutionary methods. God's holiness demands truth, and His omniscience demands perfection. He cannot know what is best and then "create" something inferior. He wrote that He took six days to create the universe (Exodus 20:11). And He cannot lie!

• God's stated purpose for creating excludes evolution. The creation reveals the Creator (Romans 1:20, Psalm 19:1-4), gives authority to the message of Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14, Colossians 1:16-18.), and is the foundation for the gospel and for worship (Revelation 14:6-7). Creating is what God does at the moment of the new birth (Ephesians 2:8-10). HMM III

For more . . . .

The article is mostly false

Allow me to debunk the article;

1) Yes the bible doesnt support evolution. The bible wrongly claims that 2 people were created and then they populated the earth.

2) Evolution is observed today eg bacteria resistance to antibiotics, human beings are bigger compared to medieval times etc

3) There are numerous transitional fossils as shown in the previous video


You and your link lie

OLAADEGBU: Let's see who was lying: Is this what you believe is human evolution?

A creationist puts together hoaxes and mistakes and therefore it makes the real fossils a lie? Did you notice that your creationist picture doesnt use the binomial nomenclature? So the fossils in this video are fake?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M96bkdohMZE

OLAADEGBU: Could they have left because of the way you think?

Wow, why did you have to deflate my ego?


On a serious note, could you find fault with my argument?

gidiMonsta: Polygamy is not against human rights and its one of the ways in which the society takes care of its surplus women. Your assertion that the ratio of men to women is 1:1.06 is grossly inaccurate cos anthropological evidence shows that polygamy has flourished all over the world and until the neo-fascist laws laid down by the catholic church even in the west, so there's no way your figures can be correct. You can go ahead and quote the bible or torah verse where 'GOD' condemns polygamy.

Yes, Islam does not permit women to marry from another religion because most likely the woman will lose her religion and that's why Islam encourages Muslim women not to.

As for the apostacy laws you talked about; its subjective and the circumstances for implementation of such is extremely rare.

If you want to know more about how the Qur'an extols human rights just google it or read the biographies of any of the four rightly guided caliphs and see how justly they ruled their people using the Qur'an and Hadeeth.

I believe in equality. It is wrong and very silly to allow a muslim man the right to marry a non-muslim woman and not give a muslim woman the same right. Both men and women can lose their religion. The Koran is sexist.

Polygamy is problematic and not suitable for this modern world. There becomes the issue of if polygamy is allowed, then polyandry should be allowed. Furthermore, having numerous wives creates the problem of inheritance and fighting among wives. No man can equally love two or more women.

As for apostacy laws, you can search the internet to find people that have been executed for it. Blasphemy laws are also ridiculous.


Th Koran allows a man to beat his wife. The koran doesnt support human rights

Olaadegbu are you not impressed? Are you not entertained? I have sent two of your religious buddies running!

Now, imagine if I were a scientist! The intellectual battering that your pals received would be more brutal

OLAADEGBU: Evolution cannot explain because it hasn't got the answers. The Bible has all the answers to the foundation questions and more.

The bible has no answer or do you believe that two people populated the whole earth? How did Adam and Eve have grandchildren without incest? Do you believe in talking snakes?

bigd4050: Your post is wrong. Everything on that wikipedia site showed pretty much just dinosaurs, which are now extinct. It didn't show any transitional fossils of things alive today.

You are lying again;

1)You ignored the human fossil on the same link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil#Australopithecus_afarensis

2)You ignored the human fossils in the video

bigd4050: If it has nothing to do with facts, then it has no place on this thread. Leave your stupid blogs in your bookmarks.

If the Bible is just a guess, so is evolution, and neither can disprove each other. So I guess we are stuck. At least the Bible gives answer to everything important, unlike evolution, which people claim holds all the answer even tho it doesn't answer very much at all. You can't prove God doesn't exist.

My God! If you said this in public in the UK, you would be put on youtube as "another dumb christian"


Evolution is a guess? Evolution that has numerous evidence (fossils, bacterial resistance to antibiotics) supporting it? What does the bible have to support walking on water or Adam and Eve or talking snakes?


No scientist will claim that evolution answers all the questions about the origin of life. You are lying.

brainpulse: If it doesn't explain then how can it debunk. You are a learned fellow i believe. If a theory will debunk another theory, it will explain the limitation in the theory and the origin it wanted to debunk before it can be an authority in the field of knowledge.

You can't debunk a documented fact with error, it is fallacy. And your tone of the side of the evolution you supported means that it was deliberate because you choose it not because of its credibility. Someone like would want something that could be proven in all sphere of credibility

Evolution shows that human beings were not created 6000 years ago as a consequence. Evolution does not have to explain creation, it just shows that man existed in other forms beyond 6000 years ago

bigd4050:
The fact that you say animals and people have evolved, when there is no evidence of that or of fossils of animals in the in between stages. The fact that evolution tries to debunk God when it can't, and doesn't explain how the world started, which is crucial when you try to debunk religion.

The bold part is a lie. There are transitional fossils. A transitional fossil is any fossilized remains of a life form that exhibits traits common to both an ancestral group and its derived descendant group http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M96bkdohMZE

OLAADEGBU: Really? I thought you said that evolution doesn't have anything to do with the origin of life, how come it suddenly confirms that man was not created?


Sure. So you think that every other ideology may be the answer but you know for sure that the bible is not the answer to the foundation questions? Adam and Eve story are true myths if you care to know.


You have no logical argument to back up your claim, all you said up there is just an emotional, illogical and unscientific summation which has no evidence.

Evolution is not meant to explain the origin of matter or how the world came about. The fact that it debunks your creationist tale from the bible doesnt mean that it is meant to explain such origins.

Evolution is just simply change in some characteristics of organisms to be short- it is not meant to explain the origin of matter

bigd4050: Your getting your facts off of yahoo? Seriously? More people might think its a myth, but that doesn't mean they are right.

The Bible does answer our questions, and already does have the full story. It is evolution that is trying to catch up. But you will never find your answers. You cannot say that the universe was just formed from nothing, because that refutes all your scientific principles. Yet we had to have nothing at some point, because the earth had to start somehow,so your stuck in your evolutionary box. You cannot advance anywhere in evolution.

The yahoo link was a news clip. It has nothing to do with establishing facts- stop grasping at straws


The bible answers nothing. If you are stupid enough to believe that two people were created and they populated the earth while incest is ungodly, then you are brain dead. You need to reboot your brain.

The bible is a guess or just a random story on how humanity should be and God's will. You can not prove that God exists.

brainpulse: That means you also dwell on a believe that gives only half baked information. Why can't what you believe in prove what you believe? And you know it couldn't give some explanation It's absurd

Evolution is half baked?? It is one of the strongest scientific theories!

Tell me what flaws have you seen in evolution as a theory?

brainpulse: It has proven that you believe in only one thing that you do not see. As you used it as if their is another person in me telling me of my guilts but i do not see him but i know he's there.

brainpulse: YOU DON'T DO GOOD OR BAD BECAUSE YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN OF NOT, BUT IF YOU HAVE THE HEART AND COMPASSION TOWARDS PEOPLE, ITS A REAR GIFT THAT PUT A SMILE ON THE FACES OF PEOPLE. I THANK GOD THAT YOU KNOW AND CONFESSED MAN HAS A CONSCIENCE.

If man has a conscience, does it prove God or the bible?

brainpulse: I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS AND COMPASSIONATE GESTURE TO HELP A MAN AND BROTHER IN NEED. THAT I DO ALSO, I HAVE DEDICATED PARTS OF MY SAVINGS TO HELP PEOPLE IN NEED AND TO FIND AND CREATE JOBS WHICH I BELIEVE ITS THE ESSENCE OF LIFE. BUT I DON'T BELIEVE YOU ARE DOING THAT BECAUSE IF YOU BELIEVE MAN WAS NOT CREATED BY LOVE BUT JUST FELL FROM NOWHERE, HOW ON HEART WILL YOU CONVINCED ME YOU TRULY DO ALL THESE YOU SAID. AND WHAT WILL BE THE ESSENCE OF LIFE IF I TRY SAVING A SOUL AND I CAN'T SAVE MINE?

Have you gone mad?

OLAADEGBU: Since evolution and the big b-ang theories don't answer the foundational questions what do you think the answeres are?

Evolution confirms that man was not created. That is one answer you keep ignoring.


However, the bible is not an answer to any question to our origins. More and more people are accepting that the Adam and Eve story is a myth;


http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/13381016/pell-says-adam-and-eve-didnt-exist


Science might find out the whole story of the beginning of the universe, or it may not. However, the bible/christianity has never and will never find out the whole story.

brainpulse: I laugh, if you truly care and have pains for these people and wants to save lives, you will do more than just typing on the keyboard. How will you save a man or people that are being subjected into slavery, how will you save lives that are dying and being maltreated by our brothers cause of greed, corruption and lust of this world, how will you show love to the man that needs a token to eat, and the woman dying of cancer when with your HEART YOU HAD BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE NOT CREATED BUT THEY FELL AND CAME FROM NOWHERE? Indirectly you inflict pains on them by your confessions and the hardness of your heart.

?

Wow, my comment must have touched you. It's your guilty conscience speaking. Unlike you, I do voluntary work for a charity that helps children in war torn countries in Africa. You know that you are heartless with your fake christianity and that's why you think that I dont care about people who were sold as slaves.


Thanks, you have made my day by exposing your heartless self