₦airaland Forum

Ptolomeus: After that last intervention of Logicboy, our friend caezar need the paramedics!

Abrazo amigazo!!
Vamo' arriba la celeste!

cyrexx: praises to dead gods of the past like Zeus, Thor, Odin, whom nobody worships anymore
and praises to current gods like Allah and Yahweh who will later join their ranks as mankind progresses
amen.

Deep Sight: ^^^ Very simple and straight forward really.

Kay 17: BUT the first Amendment is the instrument that protects freedom of speech and expression!! The Court's definition of religion covers it. That's my point.

"It is undisputed that other religious
groups are permitted to meet at Kaufman’s prison, and
the defendants have advanced no secular reason why
the security concerns they cited as a reason to deny
his request for an atheist group do not apply equally to
gatherings of Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, or Wiccan
inmates.

sauer: what's the thread turned to? I'd stop engaging fellis, if I were you!

caezar: Lol. What an absurd and inconsistent set of arguments to make!

1) Religion has failed Nigeria? Religion, has built Nigeria!!!
Being a Christian, I can't speak much for the Islamic religious institution, but here are a few things religion has done for us:

a. It has built us many schools: Loyola Jesuit College, Christ the King College, Regina Pacis to name but a few secondary schools. Loyola Jesuit College is the perfect example here. Many of its students have gone on to very good higher institutions in foreign countries (please I do not wish to get into an argument about brain drain) they will in time come back and give back to Nigeria. That's thanks to some Jesuits.

b. Economic empowerment! I'm catholic, and so I speak from that perspective. I went for a bazaar recently for a church we're opening in some far off village in Abuja. Ordinarily, nothing would take me to that remote part of town, but because I had been specifically invited by the priest, I went. At the bazaar, they auctioned off many items to raise money for the church. But most importantly, they auctioned off taxis, motorcycles, fans, sewing machines etc for the poor residents of that village so that they could use these items to generate an income for their families. That's a contribution from religion!!!

There are countless other examples that anyone with open eyes and half an imagination can come up with. Religious institutions are perhaps better than our government in actually assisting the very poor people in our society.

caezar: 2) Again, what The world has issues mate! And they do not stop at religious differences. Have you heard of the Hutus and the Tutsis? In Rwanda, you have a country divided not along religious lines BUT ethnic ones. In fact, an extensive study of our history will show you that Nigeria's first cracks occurred along ethnic lines not religious ones so it is not clear that eliminating the current religious tensions would somehow unite Nigeria.

And to preempt you, atheism does not miraculously (pun intended) solve any of Nigeria's problems. Atheism is not a cure for illiteracy, ignorance or fanaticism as is evident from some of the comments on this forum.

caezar: 3) Of all your points, this is the most laughable. You have NO appreciation for history. For if you understood the influence that religion has had on preserving culture the world over you would show more respect. For instance, in the Dark Ages of our history, it was Christian monks who preserved the texts of our natural sciences in those days and the texts of ancient cultures you would revere today. But the most laughable thing about this point is that I cannot see how religion stands in the way of the preservation of cultural artifacts.

caezar: 4) I hate to repeat this point over and over again but you are in sore need of a history lesson. Amongst other things. Secularism and Atheism are two very different things! This UK, that you so proudly point to, was founded on the back of Christianity. It's roots are intertwined with those of Christianity. And have you watched a Republican presidential debate (this is the US not the UK, but what better example than the most developed country in the world)? Religion is very much a part of US politics even as the state is clearly secular. You must then ask yourself why religion plays such an important part of politics in this country if, as you say, atheism leads to greater development.

caezar: I think some atheists on this forum have turned this forum into a medium for religious bashing. I was jobless today and I stumbled on a Nairaland post during a google search. Since then, all I have seen on Nairaland is countless examples of shoddy, ridiculous arguments from atheists which are really just an excuse for religious bashing. I think that's sad. We should all be entitled to our own faiths, or lack thereof without fear of attack from people of conflicting faiths... or lack thereof.

fellis: Ok. But my own sources of information prove otherwise.

how does that site prove that they are not doing well economically? It just shows how the GDP flunctuated in the last few years, how income is not evenly distributed and the rate of illiteracy. And for all these problems, the plans that the government wishes to implement in tackling them was included.
Besides that study was done more than a decade ago. I am not sure it is still valid.

I can but I choose not to. I am tired of this thread.

Ayomivic: Yes, evil had been in existence from the beginning of the world. Incest may be happened in bible but God's law does not permit it ,christians must live by what comes out from God mouth not by what someone had done.

People had been worshiped Satan in the past they were redeemed by God and satan had been gained them to himself in different way before through paganism now atheism is one of the way.

fellis: Am bored of this thread. Let's just agree to disagree.
I have studies to attend to.
p.s.
First of all, I never said religion brought peace to Saudi Arabia, I said it is present and it has not ensured the wreck of the country, afterall they are doing well economically even if they have problems with domestic violence and genetic diseases. Those things have not 'wrecked' the country. Japan, is an Atheist country with very high suicide rates and unbelievable amounts of se[i]x[/i]ual perversions and they are still faring well in a lot of other aspects aren't they?
Secondly. I don't believe 9/11 bombers came from Saudi Arabia. I believe 9/11 was an inside job (call me a conspiracy theorist if you like). Even if they did, how does the action of a few miscreants discredit an entire nation? Does the Hutaree sect coming from the USA mean that the USA is wrecked by religion?
Lastly, I never insulted atheists. I added 'might' to that statement and gave my perspective. Can you not logically understand a statement or draw deductions based on common sense? Must I attach 'evidence' to every single statement I make before they become acceptable?

ijawkid: Logig boy u forget that d reason why u wanna help people and be charitable is because u were made in d image of d 1 person u hate so much.....(Yahweh)...

1 corinthians 13:8-11 shuld help u.......

U love humans,u love people and wanna help them...

Where do u think that intuition came from??

By chance mayb.....

fellis: Thank you for being kind of objective in your post.
The only thing that I don't agree with is the bolded. Religion MIGHT be a causative factor in bringing down a country but it is not an exclusive cause. And it does not ensure it. Countries like Chile, Malaysia and Saudi Arabia that are religious have not being wrecked by religion. On the contrary, countries like France which are secular record the highest rates of intolerance towards religious diversity and Japan, another non-religious country has a suicide rate that is probably the highest on the planet.
I believe human nature is a major contributor.
I don't think any of the mainstream religions preach anything but good. It is when people practising them decide to twist the religious laws to suit their desires that religion appears to become problematic.
Atheist nations that appear peaceful at present, if given time might begin to lose their peaceful nature because without a divine authority, who defines what is good? Who defines right and wrong? Morality is a subjective thing and my own understanding of how humans should live would be completely opposite to what a person with a different background, different intelligence level and even different genetic code would think.

According to a study conducted by Dr. Nura Al-Suwaiyan, director of the family safety program at the National Guard Hospital, one in four children are abused in Saudi Arabia.[189] The National Society for Human Rights reports that[b] almost 45% of the country's children are facing some sort of abuse and domestic violence.[/b][190] It has also been claimed that trafficking of women is a particular problem in Saudi Arabia as the country's large number of female foreign domestic workers, and loopholes in the system cause many to fall victim to abuse and torture.[191]
Widespread inbreeding in Saudi Arabia, resulting from the traditional practice of encouraging marriage between close relatives, has produced high levels of several genetic disorders including thalassemia, sickle cell anemia, spinal muscular atrophy, deafness and muteness.[192][193]

Atheist nations that appear peaceful at present, if given time might begin to lose their peaceful nature because without a divine authority, who defines what is good?

fellis: The issue with NZ is part of why I cannot accept that statistic as factual.

Ya. Suggest.

fellis: Your statistics are not evidence. Even if they are true, it does not prove that the peace or whatever the country was shown to enjoy in the statistic was as a direct consequence of the citizens being atheist.

fellis: Your statistics are not evidence. Even if they are true, it does not prove that the peace or whatever the country was shown to enjoy in the statistic was as a direct consequence of the citizens being atheist.

fellis: Logicboy were you banned again or why are you browsing with 'Atheist :-D' ?

fellis: Ya.

fellis: I read through your sites and didn't see anything that voids the suggestion I made. Can you point it out to me if you don't mind?


I have seen communism being reffered to as a 'state religion' in write-ups. I always took it to be metaphorical because there are some aspects or characteristics that Religions have which communism lacks. I and a number of people don't take communism as a religion, regardless of what similarities I see in those write-ups. You may take it as a religion if you wish. You are entitled to your opinion.

Ptolomeus: I do not bother the atheists.
The only ones I bother to me, are the religious fanatics.
A world full of religious fanatics would be impossible to tolerate.
I clarify that I am not an atheist.
No offence

Ptolomeus: Absolutely.
Historically, Africa is not Christian or Islamic.
These religions have been imposed by the conquerors.
Undoubtedly, it is preferable to be an atheist, to follow the religion of the slavers.

buzugee: i would ascribe the 'genius' to the lord because i am simply parroting his words. however have a cider on me

your other ID Logicboy1 being released yet ?

Sister fatie: D argument against atheism in nigeria is simple. Those religious leaders aren't gonna let their source of income go dry.

fellis: First of all, you are referencing a secular humanism site that is likely to be biased towards secularim when writing their articles, secondly if their survey is correct, maybe the regions with higher standards of living are mostly atheist because if times are hard, people tend to turn to religion for solace, so the regions with lower standards of living are partly theist cos they have low standard of living and need a God to turn to. Just suggesting a cause.

buzugee: ahhhh i see you are not familiar with reincarnation. a 10 or 12 year old is the age of the body. the age of the spirit is over 10000 years old. when God delivers judgement, it is not based on the age of the body, it is based on the pas deeds of the spirit.

fellis: I think this survey is biased.
It does not include countries that are atheist band still violent e.g. countries in the USSR and North Korea. Why? Another reason why I believe it is biased is cos NZ, which showed up as the most peaceful country is not a secular country. It is a Christian country.
Assuming the survey is correct, those countries at the top might be peaceful because the government has strict laws regarding breaking laws and general 'bad behaviour'.
Secondly, the reason why those peaceful countries are peaceful might be because they enjoy a good standard of living and don’t face the stress and frustration that come with living a hard life so they are calm.
Another thing tI consider is that my conversations and interaction with people has shown me that people are far more likely to do good than evil if they have no punishment to fear.

The International Social Survey Programme was conducted in New Zealand by Massey University in 2008. It received mail-responses from around one thousand New Zealanders above the age of 18, surveying issues of religious belief and practice. The results of this survey indicated that 72% of the population believe in God or a higher power, 15% are agnostic, and 13% are atheist (with a 3% margin of error).[8]