₦airaland Forum

fratermathy:
To trash another point I overlooked, WHO TOLD YOU ITSEKIRIS AND IJAWS DRESS ALIKE?
For one, IJAWS dress in NO WAY like Urhobos! Ijaws have their own unique dress sense. Any Ijaw you see, have seen or will see dressing like an Urhobo is simply doing so for fashion's sake and not as his traditional clothing. Ijaws dress like this:
https://www.bodedolu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/jona-in-ijaw-regalia.jpg

Itsekiris dress "similar" to the Urhobos but not exactly! Itsekiri's similarity to Urhobo in dressing is even disputed because Itsekiri aristocrats dress in no way like Urhobo aristocrats. In fact, Itsekiris dress more like Edos than Urhobos. The nature of the material and how they tie their wrappers are totally different from Urhobos. This is how Itsekiris dress:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5790/22544267386_4a86baa1ec_c.jpg


Urhobos and Isokos, on the other hand, DRESS EXACTLY THE SAME in EVERY WAY! There are no differences in this case. This is how we dress below:
https://logbaby.com/files/logo/13057.jpg


In essence, YOUR THEORY IS WRONG, AGAIN, AS EXPECTED!!!

You took the bait.

An itsekiri wedding and a delta Ijaw group picture.

Do you notice the 2 piece (top and wrapper with hat and walking stick) dress code for the groom in the itsekiri wedding?

In the ijaw group picture, do you notice the young kids who use the 2 piece dress code.

The 2-piece dress code is adopted by many SS tribes. You can simply not say it is peculiar to the Urhobo and Isoko people. Even the SE people have an adaptation of the 2-piece dress code.

When did the itsekiri people start using coats in their traditional wear. The Ijaw people are expansive. They extend as far as present day Ondo state, and make up Baylesa and Rivers as well. I referenced Delta Ijaw that many times take up the 2-piece dress code. The Ijaws in Baylesa and Rivers do not take up this dress code opting for a signature style popularized by GEJ.

And do you notice that across the four groups, Isoko, Urhobo, Itsekiri, and Ijaw; the women have a similar two-piece dress code?

Of course, you will say that you are an Authority in the dress code of the SS ethnic groups as well. Please go ahead and do not surprise me. Expert ko, Authority ni.

airsaylongcon:
fratermathy, leave LordAdam alone. We know when Isokos will start calling their Urhobo brothers

"Brothers" in a figurative sense. We are distinct and have the highest recognition of our unique heritage. Your anonymous position does not hold water.

When the chips are down, the Isoko people and the Urhobo people are neighbors. We are not the same people. Beat that.

fratermathy:
Even though your arguments have resulted to insultive squabbles directed at my person, I won't give you the pleasure of a counter-insult. Rather, I'd attack your statement one by one as I have always done. By the way, you've still not given me the proof that Urhobos and Isokos are different as I have given you mine! That is a hanging thread you need to bring down. Secondly bogus words are not "concocted for charade" like you claim. When someone reads alot, the person tends to have a wider vocabulary and lexical arsenal to draw upon. That is the case here. I do not invent words, I use words as they come to mind. Maybe you should read more and learn more words rather than attack my choice of words. It is what I do! My use of ethnicity is not ambiguous in any way at all. Maybe to you it is! When one says a people are "ethnically" different yet "culturally and linguistically" the same, a sane mind gets the implicature that culture and language have been exhumed from the usage of the term "ethnically". This is further obviated by my arguments and premise and you cannot tell me that you are sound in intellectual acuity when you cannot deduce, induce, infer and refer statements and their logical ends.


The so-called 2-page unverified article was written by Sir Dr. Anthony Ukere, a pioneer lecturer of the Urhobo Language at Delta State University Abraka and a recognised authority on Urhobo language! In his curricula development of the Urhobo Language Departmental courses, he subsumed Isoko under Urhobo and that is why Isoko is studied by students of Urhobo in DELSU as a dialect and nothing but so! Ukere is recognised in international spheres as an authority and he published the first Urhobo dictionary. Your source, on the other hand, is faceless and ethnocentric. Even the very title of the website is self-explanatory. You cant use such a site in any scholarly works. My citations on this subject matter are numerous. I have given you books and I have more in my library to substantiate my claim. Refer to articles by Felicia Ohwovoriole, Sunny Awhefeada, Peter Omoko, Stephen Kekeghe, Enajite Ojaruega, Ogaga Okuyade, Igho Onose, Macaulay Mowarin, and a host of others for references. I cannot copy and paste printed books here but I'd take the time to snap some pages and shove down your eyes! Once again, I presented you with my own uncooked facts on Urhobo and Isoko homogeneity. What have you done?


You assumed I have not written a peer-reviewed publication? My latest book was a product of a peer reviewed publication on AcademicJournals.org. In fact, I have my own academic journal publication company, OKJOURNALS.ORG, maybe you should access the site. We are currently calling for papers. If you are in doubt as to my ownership of the site, goto whois.sc/okjournals.org and see my name there. It is even on the website! Apart from that, I have 5 academic papers and even more yet to be published. I started writing academic papers the year I became an undergrad. My last book is on Amazon! So you are wrong! Refer to my article on Igbe religion on Vanguard last two weeks, a link of it is on my profile! Vanguard referred to me as an authority on Urhobo culture! Access the wiki page on Urhobo people, my photograph is the representative one there. I do not want to believe you are insecure and that is why you make uncouth statements! In any case, you should make proper RESEARCH before you make statements such as these because it'd expose your lack of intellectual depth, insecurity, and plain silliness.
My articles on Nairaland are a mere pastime. I write here for fun and when I am bored. Most of my articles here are forwarded to Urhobo Voice, UrhoboToday and other dailies as opinions and THEY ALWAYS GET ACCEPTED!!! I dont think you googled my name well enough. I am not a supremacist! I just like stating the facts! A supremacists would attack Isokos! I have not done that in any verbal engagement. I have only stated and maintained that Isoko is a part and parcel of Urhobo nation!


Sapir-Whorf hypothesis has been backed by a myriad of other scholars including the much revered Noam Chomsky! Hence, it'd be an intellectual suicide on your part to claim that Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is a misnomer. It is the sole yardstick used to judge Nigerian languages and their origins. Language dictates culture and vice versa. Take for instance, the French language that has little or no words to express anger and insults! It is a well known fact that the French people are the nicest people in the world when it comes to amity! The French language has more lexical items that connote or denote romance and love and it is a well known fact that French is a standard language of poetry and courtship! It is also a well known fact that American English has one of the highest numbers of curse words! It is only a dunce that would deny that Americans are about the rudest people on Earth! So look beyond the theory, language dictates culture and we know this from our everyday dealings. In Urhobo, for instance, the language has alot of praise words known largely as Odovan! These words are used by age-grades at social gatherings! All true Urhobos and Isokos have an Odovan! This linguistic marker has embedded the system of titular appellation on Urhobos/Isokos. This explains for why Urhobos LOVE TITLES! A typical Urhobo man wants to be known as Chief, Dr, Prof., Sir., etc. Urhobo language has a penchant for argumentation and quarrels beyond normal. This explains why Urhobos love law and litigation. I could go on and on but language as a cultural indicator is a sacrosanct fact that no one can negate. If you think otherwise, prove your case with data as I have done now. You ask me who I am, well, I am not much but I know that I am intellectually sound enough, both in certification and output, to authoritatively speak on some things and this issue is one of them! If you think otherwise, tell us who you are and why you believe you can negate my assertions, that is if you believe you are intellectually buoyant enough to do so.
Urhobo and Isoko being a singular group is no hypothesis that needs testing! It has been tested by its language and culture and even the lay man knows this. Goto Asaba, Agbor and Warri; ask them what they think of Isoko and you'd be amazed that most do not even recognise your so-called ethnic individuality. The average Asaba man calls us "Sobos"! Most call all of us Urhobos! Why all the beckering? Will your Ovie pay you to make your people the minority of minorities? Oh Please!


You cannot be done with me because you have lost out in this argument. You were the one who claimed you were unrivalled in argumentation. Why cower away now? Are you sad I'd keep flogging you like a nursery pupil with facts and figures? All through this altercation you have not presented a single data to buttress your arguments! The only thing you've done is cite an apologetic and unintellectual website! Present me with cogent data and I'd say you have a point to make. For now, you have none and now you shy away like a limp and rabid rabbit.
Okpe and Aviarra are both URHOBO CLANS! Of which one belongs to the Isoko subcluster and another is an autonomous branch of its own. Your tribalism wont change this fact! Your unintellectual and "pupilish" arguments wont change this bare-faced truth. Infact, this fact is like the eyes on your face, it is what you see with. Isokos see the world through the cosmology, which means world-view, of Urhobo ! Changing this fact is tantamount to shooting your maker and running away. There is a reason he is your maker in the first place. No Urhobo can claim not to be of Edo descent! So also with Isoko! You cant claim not to be Urhoboid! Case Closed!!!

You call me an extremist and yet you are the offensive cum defensive one who engaged in tribal and provocative slurs in response to an intellectual fact obviated by everything Isokos do! Even Isoko tribal marks are Urhoboid! Yes! Its as obvious as that.


You can now scamper away or come back with facts and let's finish what you started! Like I said, I NEVER LOSE AN ARGUMENT!

I have given you a direct link, and even your Wikipedia link on Urhobo-Isoko put the Isoko people as different from the Urhobo people.

Ukere is an authority in Edoid linguistics. He is not an authority in ethnography. The course studied in Delsu is "Linguistics and Urhobo". Seeing that the Urhobo and Isoko languages are in the same family, it is not far-fetched why the Isoko language is studied briefly by those who study the Urhobo language.

You are just ranting here. Have you written a peer-reviewed article on the Urhobos and Isokos being the same people? The answer is a resounding NO. How then are you an Authority in the subject?

Where does the "SO" in Sobo come from? Why did both the Isoko and Urhobo people reject the name? Is it not because both do not believe they should be clumped together?

Please, that you do not accept defeat does not mean that you have not being defeated. You are a sorry loser.

Bring a verifiable quote from an Authority on the subject, you did not bring. Okay, find an Isoko person that says he is an Urhobo person, you cannot find.

You see people are not blind. And again, the Isoko people already have what they want. To be distinct from the Urhobo people. Extremists cannot be expected to change their views even in the face of compelling argument.

You can argue with an Okpe man that he is an Urhobo. With an Isoko man, you have lost the argument before you start. I am an Isoko person, I know my history, and I know I am not an Urhobo person. I share this conviction with about a million Isoko people. And our opinion has been sanctioned by the government. Even if we were to divide into a different republic, the Urhobo and Isoko people can never be one and the same people. Your lame opinion does not stand a chance.

Expectedly, you will make a follow-up post with the grim illusion that you will never lose an argument. You have lost this one. And I can only imagine how many arguments you have lost, only for you to maintain an apparent losing position. And I can imagine any right-clicking person to say it is okay, at least we share a common ancestry.

fratermathy:
The link I brought asserts that Isoko and Urhobo are members of the same linguistic family. Hasn't that been my argument all along? Are you so lost and blind that you have lost focus of my initial premise.? Tell me, which language is deemed as Urhobo? Even Okpe, Uvwie and lots of others are classified as distinct languages! My premise, to remind your myopic memory, is that these distinct languages belong to the same cluster and cultural appellation known as URHOBO. I refuse the term known as Sobo for its derogatory connotation and the compounded term Urhobo-Isoko may as well be Urhobo-Isoko-Okpe-Uvwie-Abraka-Agbon-Agbarho-Olomu, etc since compounding is your Forte! It is easier to use a term common to all yet owned by none, ergo, the adoption of Urhobo! Isoko is owned as well as the others unlike Urhobo which is peculiar to none.
Instead of you and your people to correct the anomaly and injustice meted against you, you are here arguing to hit a cul-de-sac like Oedipus, the tragic hero. Your hubris shall be your own undoing!

The same linguistic family. Portuguese, French, Italian, Spanish, Romanian all belong to the Romance language family. Does it mean that the French and Italian are one and the same people. Or the Portuguese and Spanish.

Get a grip. We do not think it is an anomaly. You are like the early European missionaries who said the sub-saharan black Africans did not have a history. You are a disgrace to your people. The Isoko are peaceful towards and different from the Urhobos. Do not dictate to us who you think we are. We know who we are, now get lost with your degree and intellectual hullabaloo.

fratermathy:
You keep saying that Urhobo and Isoko are Edoid and are distinct. Therefore it is safe to say that since they are both Edoid and are linguistically and culturally the same, then their progenitor must have had the same common cultural and linguistic markers? If so, then why do;
1. Isokos and Urhobos call God "Oghene" and Edos dont?
2. Isokos and Urhobos eat "Ukhodo" as native meals and Edos dont?
3. Isokos and Urhobos share names of people, animals, things and places that Edos do not?
4. Isokos and Urhobos share titles of Kings, monarchical lexical items and royal cosmology that Edos dont?
5. Isokos and Urhobos have the same fashion style that Edos dont?

There are more but I have made my point! Urhobos and Isokos are Edoid no doubt! However, they could never have existed as distinct peoples when their Edo progenitor, which ought to be the protoid culture and language, lacks what they both share together. It implies that either Isokos were originally Urhobos who migrated at different times or that Isokos were a different people, most likely Igbos, who learnt Urhobo due to contact and created a unique version of it. In both versions, whether truistically or not, Urhobo remains the protoid culture and language! I am not Urhobo because I speak Urhobo! I am Urhobo because I speak AGBON which is a member of the Urhobo linguistic and cultural cluster. That has and will always remain my argument and premise.
As of this moment, I cant fathom the bearing of your argument because you seem to be strictly on the defensive without any directional premise upon which your argument is anchored and do not tell me your argument is that Isokos are different from Urhobos because that ship has already sailed ages ago when Isoko started speaking, dressing, eating, dancing, and living like Urhobos!

Find your intellectual compass and point it NORTH!

No. They are not bound to have such. The Isokos as a people do not accept that they are Urhoboid. No clan I know of claims to be a part of Urhobo, why are you forcing this down our throats.

Is it by force. Or are you claiming to be more knowledgeable about our own history and ancestry than the Isoko elders? We have chosen to maintain that we are different and you can't deal with it? As I said earlier, do whatever you like...

Now let me prove your argument false...

1. "Jesu" for Jesus is the same for Urhobo and Isoko, Ijaw, Portuguese
2. Urhobos, Isokos, Esans eat Ogbono soup.
3. Isoko has more unique names for people, places and animals than the appellations they share with Urhobo
4. Isoko has its own unique appellation for royalty, pantheon of gods
5. The Ijaws and Itsekiri in Delta dress like the Urhobos and Isoko.

I dress in suit and tie, does that make me a European? Please, stop being full of yourself. The Isoko and Urhobo people are Edoid, and are distinct groups.

fratermathy:
Everyone knows Professor Sagay is a questionable scholar whose theories have been debunked on numerous occasions by Professors Ekeh, Otite, Darah, Ukoli, and even Dr. Itiveh, Awhefeada, amongst others!
Apart from the lack of integrity in your citation of Prof. Sagay, I'd proceed to further analyse your statements. The use of Igbo and Ibibio has no bearing in the use of Isoko and Urhobo. Even the Angels in Heaven know that Ibibios are not culturally, linguistically, cosmologically, and otherwise, associated with Igbos other than geographical contiguity. However, in Isoko and Urhobo, the opposite is the case as largely argued by me since the genesis of this online altercation.
It is a well known fact that Urhobo as a cultural delineator was not accepted by all its clans and divisions until the establishment of the Urhobo Progress Union, UPU, by Mowoe and his contemporaries. In this establishment, Isokos were originally members! The UPU started to canvass for a singular Urhobo identity devoid of dialectal partisanship. When Otobo won his case in the 50s, Isokos soon formed IDU as a rival to UPU. Even IDU was not formed to match UPU but as a subdivisional socio-cultural body as much as Okpes and Uvwies have theirs! IDU later took a political stance and with the discovery of crude oil, ethnic groups started to squabble amongst themselves! Isokos started to realise that they'd fare better in the "OIL" compensation business if they were ethnically cut off from Urhobos and divisions started! Other Urhobo groups found it difficult to do this because, unlike Isoko, the foundation was not laid down by anyone.
Before the 1950s, Urhobos and Isokos were called Sobos, a largely derogatory term rejected by both since it was a mockery and an anglicised one at that.! By the peak of the 50s, Isokos were simply called Urhobos, the umbrella term for the Edoid groups of the Niger Delta hinterland! Whether Isokos want to accept this or not, it is a sanctimonious fact that cannot be denied! Isoko, like I've always said, may be ethnically different but they are culturally and linguistically Urhoboid! Nothing can be done about this. If it pains you so much then tell your kings to have a meeting and adopt a distinct Isoko cosmology devoid of Urhobo touches!

Even some hypotheses by the mighty Einstein were refuted. Sagay pointed out facts about Urhobo and Isoko people that were held up by other scholars.

You say pre-50's, the Urhobo and Isoko people were called the "Sobo" people. And then you erroneously say by the peak-50's the Isoko people were called Urhobo people. Trying to distort history again.

The election for the Western Nigeria Regional Assembly was held in 1951. An Isoko man, Chief Otobo, representing the Isoko people was elected to the house. And an Urhobo man, Chief Mowarin, representing the Urhobo people was also elected to the house.

Source: ihuanedo.ning.com/m/group/discussion?id=2971192%3ATopic%3A130200

You just reaffirmed my position. You are a joker.

fratermathy:
Like I said, we have not even started this argument. Do not let your delusional grandeur deceive you into thinking otherwise. I don't have to state the connotativeness of my words or their semantic implications in other for you to grasp simple facts! The fact that you cannot construe lexical semantics and disambiguate utterances leaves much to marvel at. I employ words like a literati and a scholar, I don't have to take permission or establish a semantic premise before I am understood. In an objective argument, you cite scholars and not websites concocted by apologists for self, vain reasons! Here is another link on Isoko being an Urhoboid dialect:
http://urhobolanguageinstitute.com/imagenes_libros/THE%20%20PEOPLE%20%20WHO%20%20SPEAK%20%20%20URHOBO%20%20LANGUAGE.pdf

Mind you, this brief article is citatable with a known writer other than the blind link you gave. The books I presented to you have various sections on this issue. If you are scholarly inclined, you'd have seen them as I did in less than 10 minutes. Except you do not know how to skim through books and in which case, I'd understand your predicament in acknowledging Isoko's Urhoboness.


Secondly, you still have not answered my question! If you really claim to be intellectually buoyant then present me with convincing facts that Isokos and Urhobos are linguistically and culturally different. Every spectator of this argument knows that I did my part in pointing out obvious similarities that bind Isoko to Urhobo. Until you prove otherwise, I deem you to have lost this argument. !

And for your information, I am a scholar on Urhobo and English literature, language and culture, look at my profile for my last book and google my name. I can authoritatively speak on this matter because I have READ ALL BOOKS on Urhobo people, Isoko people and virtually every group in the Delta and I have written about them in journal articles, magazines, newspapers, books and even here on Nairaland! I have met critics and recalcitrant lots like you and I have never lost out to them. This wont be my first!


You speak of classification! What do you know of language trees and roots? What do you know of philology and diachronic linguistics? Oh please, go and read rather than make vain assertions and bogus claims with delusions of grandeur!

Urhobo and Isoko, going by diachronic linguistics and the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis of linguistic and cultural relativity, are one and the same people. They originate from a single protoid language of which any of the Dialects could be and their world view has been shaped by their common lingua franca. They are both pairs as much as Esan, Etsako and Afemai are constituents of Edo. Don't argue like an intellectually lame individual Mr LordAdam, argue with concrete and objective facts and figures. Do not let tribalism blind you from the truth.

Do come back when you have beefed up your knowledge. I'm ever ready to flog you in mode, medium and content.

The use of bogus words does not make you smart. It is often a charade to make a false impression of being intelligent when you are not. The aim of an argument is for there to be firm understanding and there should be premises on which the argument thrives on. Your use of the word ethnicity before I brought up the dictionary meaning of the word were not apparent as connotative. You only made the convenient switch when I caught you with your pants down.

This is an objective argument. I presented you with an article that talked about the major groups in Niger Delta and their links to the Bini empire. The author is not an Isoko person. The author also cites sources that were not written by Isoko people. What then is your basis for calling the article is "concocted by apologists"?

I have made my resolve that you are not worth my effort in this argument. I give you a link with two majorly renowned renowned references. You give me a 2-page pdf file without a single reference and with no author. You are a JOKER.

I gave you a chance to prove your argument with links and you bring a 2-page unverified pdf file. Then you tell me it was written by a "known writer". Really?! How old do you think I am? 12?

You insult my intelligence when you tell me you are an Authority when you have not written a single peer-reviewed publication on the subject, except of course on Nairaland.com where anyone can concoct a fallacy. You say you are an Authority because you have read books? And you cannot cite those books with clearly defined statements by renowned authorities on the subject.

I respect your opinion, but it is a wrong opinion. You are no authority because you are a lecturer. You are just an Urhobo supremacist who thinks he knows so much because he has a wide vocabulary and unsubstantiated claims akin to fairy tales.

Everyone knows Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is a misnomer. Even Sapir-Whorf maintains that

"It
is easy to show that language and culture are not intrinsically associated. Totally unrelated languages share in one culture; closely related languages—even a single language—belong to distinct culture spheres. There are many excellent examples in Aboriginal America. The Athabaskan languages form as clearly unified, as structurally specialized, a group as any that I know of. The speakers of these languages belong to four distinct culture areas... The cultural adaptability of the Athabaskan-speaking peoples is in the strangest contrast to the inaccessibility to foreign influences of the languages themselves."

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

Everyone can see your folly as I have repeatedly tried to point out. When Sapir, who you make reference to maintains that language and culture are not deeply related, who then are you to say they are? Rather than bank on substantiated proof, you reference an unverified hypothesis to make an outrageous statement that two distinct ethnic groups are one and the same? Again I ask, who the hell do you think you are to make such a bold unscrupulous assertion.

Okpe is a clan in Urhobo. Aviarra is a clan in Isoko. It appears that you are the one blinded by tribalism to kick against a fact solidified by experts on the subject and a thriving cultural and political institution. Now this is it from me. Only unintelligent extremists like you will argue otherwise.

I'm done with you. Have a nice day.

fratermathy:
Thank you! Mr. LordAdam is arguing what he cannot win!

If not for Awolowo, Isoko would have been as enmeshed in Urhobo as Okpes are. If any Urhoboid group want to claim difference because of linguistic factors, it is even Orogun people who speak Igbo and Urhobo. It is certainly not Isoko people who speak Urhobo and understand Urhobo and their unique variant of it. It is not Isoko who are as Urhoboid as Urhobos are Edoid! The only reason why people dont lay claim to Urhobo being a dialect of Edo is because our language and culture have grown so differently. It is also because of geographical incontiguity further excerbated by the fact the Edos are in a different state from Urhobos. However, in the case of Isokos, nothing of such has occurred! The language is a mutually intelligible pair and the culture is the same and can be seen by all like the teke teke mene upharsin of yore.
Any bitter Isoko dude that argues against this will hit a cul-de-sac! Our people are one and the same and if they dont like this, they should stop bearing Urhobo names, eating Urhobo foods, using Urhobo culture, etc!

Like you also said, Urhobo and Isoko Ovies do pay tributes to the Oba of Benin! Although this is currently waning. Edos see Urhobo/Isoko as its son and a son must bow to its father! Isokos, on the other hand, want to see themselves as an elder brother! Little do they know that their claim cannot be ratified anywhere. They may be ethnically different but as I have always iterated, they are culturally and linguistically Urhobos for all intents and purposes!


LordAdam, pick up a fight you can win! I'd flog you on this one with more facts and figures from scholarly works ad infinitum! I've argued this with people who are far more vocal than you are and they all ran away. Word of advice, I DO NOT GIVE UP!

Your fallacy is outstanding. Two distinct groups of people leave the same place and stay within close proximity to each other, how is it difficult to see that they are bounded by social laws to have languages and culture that would have similarities.

The Isoko people and Urhobo people for the umpteenth time are distinct and are Edoid. THE Isokos have never been and will never be Urhoboid. Awolowo saw the distinctive nature of both ethnic groups and chose to give both groups different representation rather than mistakenly lumped both groups together which may most likely have led to fatal disputes. The man made a smart choice.

fratermathy:
Saying that Isoko is the progenitor of Urhobo has no bearing on this matter! I have earlier asserted that Urhobo is not a language but a cultural indicator. This shouldn't be hard for you to grasp if you are as smart as you pride yourself to be. I have earlier iterated that Urhobo is the umbrella term, as much as Igbo is, that covers several clans and groups such as Uvwie, Okpe, Olomu, Agbon, Abraka, and ISOKO!, among others. This fact is something that is sacrosanct. The Urhobo people migrated from Udo in Benin at various times. The Isoko subdivision may have migrated first and in the course of the migration, other Urhoboid groups met their kinsmen already settled in. This is the case of Agbon that first settled in Irri, then to Isiokolo before further dispersal to Okpara, Kokori, Eku, and then to Ovu. The age of a group or its progenitorial status has no bearing in a people being a part and parcel of a cultural unit. Whether some Urhobo clans came from Isoko, which I dispute, or not, it must be noted that everyone of us are Urhobos! You may have a problem with the term "Urhobo" but it is the truth nonetheless.

Ask yourself this question, which particular group of people are Igbos? Answer: None! Igbo is a cultural and linguistic indicator that comprises groups such as Ohafia, Etche, Ndoni, Ukwuani, Arochukwu, Imo, Ikwerre, Afikpo, etc. Yoruba is a collection of Awori, Ekiti, Ilaje, Igbomina, Okun, etc. Each of these groups share common cultural markers that manifest in all aspects of their life. That is why they are a people! Each of the groups also has a right to dissociate themselves from their cultural markers and appellations but that doesn't negate who they are! So also is the case with Isoko! Denying your Urhoboness has no bearing in the truth!

Quic quic plantatur solo solo cedit!
Whatever is attached to the land belongs to the land!

Oh please. Isoko is as much an "umbrella term" as Urhobo and Igbo.

The Urhobos have 23 clans. Source - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urhobo_people

The Isoko have 17 clans. Source - ihuanedo.ning.com/m/group/discussion?id=2971192%3ATopic%3A130200

airsaylongcon:
Let's be real here. Prior to Awolowo's excision of Isoko from Urhobo, both were one indistinguishable, indisoluble entity. All this assertion today is purely political. Its like when a kid tastes freedom. It is very exhilarating. Before Awo's shenanigans did d both not live intertwined as a unit?

As for pledging allegiance to the Oba, ALL Urhobo and Isoko Kings pledge their allegiance to him. They get their crowns from/through him

Stick to what you know. According to Professor Sagay (SAN), former Head of Law Department of University of Benin, the Isoko lands were conquered by the British after the Urhobo lands. Owe, Oleh, and Ozoro were conquered 1 year after Awolowo was born (the conquest was in 1910, Awolowo was born in 1909). In the link - www.waado.org/nigerdelta/essays/resourcecontrol/sagay.html you will clearly see the professor use "Urhobo and Isoko country"  to signify two separate ethnic groups like he uses the term "Igbo and Ibibio lands" to signify an expanse of land occupied by two distinct ethnic groups.

Now before the grandfather of Owolowo was conceived, each Isoko clan had autonomous rule and after initial disagreements, some clans had covenants with each other. Prominent of which is the Erhowa, Aviara, and Iyede covenant that stands till this day. Even the newer Igboid Isoko clan, Igbide had a convenant with Oyede (Oyede and Iyede are different clans).

There is no recorded history of any such covenants between Urhobo clans. You can see the distinctive nature of the Isoko ideology. When it was time for indigenous groups to be represented in the western Nigeria assembly in 1951, both ethnic groups finally had a voice. Neither of both ethnic groups had a voice before 1951.

The question is that there was no entity, not you thinking there was an indivisible entity called Urhobo of which Isoko was a sub-part. Isoko is politically and ethnically different from the Urhobo people. Take it or leave it. Benin were given three reps, Urhobo 1, and Isoko 1. Distinct groups my friend. Don't chase shadows.

I blame your ignorance of monarchy in the south south on the lackluster nature of our educational system.

At some unknown date much of the Urhobo-Isoko country came under the rule of the Oba of Benin. Many of the ivie or "Kings" of Urhobo and Isoko tribes had to seek confirmation of their titles from the Oba and some still express an intention to do so; the Orodje of Orerokpe (Okpe-Urhobo) received ceremonial swords from the Oba as late as the autumn of 1953. In most tribes, however, this practice has long been discontinued, though the Oba still retains some spiritual prestige in the area. The ivie of some other Isoko tribes owed allegiance to the Obi of Aboh.

www.waado.org/Organizations/Uhs/Debates/UrhoboBeninRelations/Omoigui.html

After the mass migration from the Bini empire that later formed clans in the Isoko and Urhobo divide, the Oba of Bini led expeditions that caused several kings in either ethnic groups to pledge allegiance to the Bini throne. Monarchs in some parts of Europe at some point made allegiance to the muslim Ottoman empire.

That is no longer the case today. Most of the Monarchs in Isoko do not pay allegiance to the Oba of Bini today.

fratermathy:
I have lost nothing. In fact, I am yet to begin.

Firstly, ethnically as used in my sentence is connotatively used to delineate Nigerian Ethnic Nationalities who, by virtue of politics, deem themselves as different from their neighbours. Ethnicity and Ethnic Nationality are two different semantic pairs. In my usage, I refer to ethnic nationality and not ethnic groupings. Isoko belong to the Urhobo ethnic grouping whereas Isoko is a different ethnic nationality. If you cannot understand this simple fact, then it wouldn't be a surprise why you cannot understand that Isoko is linguistically and culturally the same with Urhobo. This is sacrosanct!

Do not immerse yourself into a delusion of grandeur that you are undefeated! Our argument has just begun! Refer to these links on Isoko being a dialect of Urhobo:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urhobo-Isoko
2. https://books.google.com.ng/books?isbn=978077288X
3. https://books.google.com.ng/books?isbn=9780677690
There are a myriad of scholarly articles on this issue that I would gladly use to flog you hands down as long as this matter is concerned! You cannot win this argument, I tell you! I have presented to you a list of items that make Isoko a cultural unit of Urhobo, kindly present me with a list that says otherwise, assuming you are intellectually bouyant enough to do so.

Mate, let me break it to you: You've lost. I'm only replying you to make the loss easy on you. Although, I'm not sure if your arrogance will allow you to see beyond your nose.

Please, in an argument, when you use a word connotatively and you want the opposition to accept your connotative use, then be explicit from the start.

Now you must understand my take. I cannot accept the opinion of a rogue ethnic extremist positing that Isoko belongs to the Urhobo ethnic grouping. As far as I know you are no historian, nor do you have sources to prove your statement.

Now let me take your hand and guide you through the study of ethnicity. Classification is necessary to organize a study. Clearly, the Urhobo people and Isoko people have various similarities. It follows then that they should be grouped together in cross-ethnic studies. It is no different from clumping the French and the Spanish as West European as different from the Hungarians and Czechs grouped together as East Europeans.

Now, when both groups are studied together, they adopt a portmanteau word stringed from the appellation of both groups, the Urhobo-Isoko or Sobo.

It is why all literature on the subject refer to Urhobo-Isoko and not Isoko as a part of the Urhobo ethnic group. That is the acceptable form, and I will be damned to take your non-intellectual stand over that of the experts.

Do not make a mockery of yourself, extract a quote from a reputable historian that authoritatively say that the Isoko people are Urhobo people and not distinct.

Rather than provide a littany of links, I will puncture holes into the ones you bring.

1. Wikipedia:

According to the language family tree classification by Ethnologue, Okpe, Urhobo and Uvwie , alongside Ebuka and Isoko, make up the five Southwestern Edoid languages of the Benue-Congo group.

Quoting Johnstone (1993), Ethnologue puts the population of Urhobo people at 546,000, Okpe 25,400 (2000) and Uvwie 19,800 (2000). These three languages have geographically neighbouring languages :Izon and Itsekiri to the west and south,Ukwuani and Isoko to the east and Edo to the north. Thus, Isoko and Urhobo are similar languages that belong to the same linguistic family.

Okpe (ISO 639 – 3:oke), Urhobo (ISO 639 – 3:urh) and Uvwie (ISO 639 – 3:evh) are three diverse languages spoken in an area belonging to one and the same ethnic group called the Urhobo people of Delta State in southern Nigeria, West Africa

No where in the article was it posited that the Isoko language was spoken by Urhobo people. Nor did it say that the Isoko people are a group of the Urhobo people. Please, use your brain. I'm making it easy for you. In bold, the writeup lists the three languages spoken by the Urhobo people, Okpe, Urhobo, and Uvwie. Please where is Isoko in the list?

2. Link is not correct

3. Book says nothing that points that the Isoko people are one and the same with the Urhobo people.

None of your links stand against the only link I have provided. Now bring a reputable scholarly reference to substantiate your fact or stay quiet. If in your next reply to this message, you are unable to do so. I will have proved to everyone that your argument is false.

menabae:
pls sir are u an isoko man?

Yes.

airsaylongcon:
Your are free to wallow in whatever it is you choose. No matter how large Isoko becomes they are Still the underlings of you-know-who

Agreed. The blacks in general are still underlings of the white man. So in Asa's voice, "the you-know-who are still jail occupants."

I have a duty to my descendants to preserve the heritage left to me by my ancestors. That heritage is the identity of the Isoko people that will not be sacrificed for any reason.

fratermathy:
And you should know too that I am not a tribalistic person! I am even related to Isoko and Igbo through extended family. I just love facts being sacrosanct and this fact that has become the nucleus of our altercation here is sacrosanct and I'd never give up easily on it. Isoko may be seen as ethnically different and I do not object to that! After all, many Igboid groups are ethnically different! However, arguing on the grounds of culture and/or language is a fallacy that I'd keep correcting! Just because a people speak a shared language differently does not mean they are different! They may claim to be different in exercising their human and collective rights but when it comes to intellectual facts such as this, we must be careful to tell the truth for posterity sake! This is not about supremacy! Urhobo is a minority group and no amount of supremacy can change that fact! That fact is sacrosanct! So also with this fact; Isoko is culturally and linguistically Urhoboid. You want proof? Here are some:
1. The Ovie System
2. The Amity System
3. Greetings
4. Age-Grade System
5. Lexical Items, Morphology and Syntax of Languages
6. The common Cosmological views viz; Orhan, Ancestral Worship, Oghene, Igbe Dance Religion, Ebo, etc
7.Dressing and the fashion of royalty
8. Chieftancy system and the same prime ministerial appellation(Otota) and function
9. Same village quarter division and appellation format
10. Same use of boundary markers via the Oghriki groove
11. Common mythologies such as that of Aziza
12. Same cuisine; Usi and Owho
13. Same Names. i.e. Efe, Iroro, Eta, Okpako, Edafe, etc
14. Same cultural indicators at social functions and gatherings
15. Same facial markers

I can go on and on but I have made my point from the anthropological perspective!!! Whatever you will say to negate this must be done with facts! Facts are sacrosanct!

All you've just proved is that the Isoko people are good neighbors.

And here is a definition of "ethnic" according to Merriam Webster's dictionary - http://i.word.com/idictionary/ethnic[1]

: of or relating to races or large groups of people who have the same customs, religion, origin, etc.

: associated with or belonging to a particular race or group of people who have a culture that is different from the main culture of a country

So when you say Isoko is ethnically different from Urhobo but culturally and linguistically the same, I begin to question your educational standing.

If you accept that the Isokos are ethnically different from the Urhobos, then by the definition, you agree to my position. This my good friend is SACROSANT.

#Stillundefeated.

Now scamper away, you've lost this one.

Again, I've got nothing against the Urhobos. But I will not tolerate your flagrant disregard of history and friendly ties between both people.

fratermathy:
You can argue this all you want and use anecdotes drawn from primordial societies, you'd never win! All other ethnic groups in Nigeria know that Isoko is a cultural branch of Urhobo. You speak of other clans breaking free and yes I agree! They have tried and are still trying! What they dont understand is this: which tribe is Urhobo? Answer: None! Urhobo is not a language or a tribe but a common term used to delineate a group of people with an homogenous culture and related languages! Urhobo is a cultural indicator to which Isoko belong!

Even in larger ethnic groups like Yoruba and Igbo, there are factions that claim to be different. i.e. Ikwerres, Ikas, Ukwuanis, for Igbo; Oron, Eket, for Ibibio; Igbomina, Okun, for Yoruba; etc. So the case of Isoko claiming to be different from Urhobo is NOT UNIQUE! They can claim all they want! Nobody can take that away from them but we know better! Isoko is as culturally Urhoboic as Okpe, Uvwie, Eruwa, Udu, etc are! Just because of senatorial arrangements, they believe they'd fare better being distinct than being associated with Urhobo. This, however, has not favoured them as Isokos are calamitously marginalised in Delta South.

Do not spear head divisions where none exists! Just leave your argument at the point that Isoko is ethnically different from Urhobo and I'll skeptically look away! But to argue that they are culturally and linguistically different is something I'd argue even in Heaven and Hell.!

Isoko has similarities with Urhobo in many aspects. However, they are different in ethnicity, language, and culture. I ain't arguing with you, because we have our own land, we are in a different Senatorial district, we have our own caste system, and have our own indigenous organizations. We are not Biafra trying to leave Nigeria, we are the North Cameroons that has left the defunct region of Nigeria and North Cameroon.

If you can't deal with it, do whatever you want. You can't change history. And on that note, I have placed your contention in a coffin and nailed it shut. Whenever I see any post on this forum from you or someone sharing your ideology, you can be sure that I will retort the lie till it gets blown out of oblivion.

airsaylongcon:
LordAm, I think it's a shame when Isoko, Uvwie, Okpe try to assert their so-called independence from mainstream Urhobo. Prior to Awolowo playing his divisive politics Urhobo and Isoko were one inseparable entity. Look at d Yorubas! From Kwara down to Lagos, Ogun westward to Ondo they DO NOT speak one homogeneous language. Heck I claim to understand yoruba but when an Ijebu man is speaking I cannot understand him. Despite the huge dialectical differences you will NEVER hear an Ijebu man say he isn't Yoruba. Or a Kwara yoruba deny his yorubaness. That way the Yoruba can say they are 60m in Nigeria and have the numbers.

As far as I'm concerned, ALL Edoid languages should assert their Bini ness. While I'm Bini (paternally) for all intents and purposes I'm an Urhobo cos that's were my mum's from. Not just any Urhobo but Aragba Orogun where dey switch from Ukwani to Urhobo as though its the same language. I have absolutely no qualms been called any of the three.

That is not your call to make. I cannot accept your unintelligent consensus because of your myopic tendencies. The Yoruba people had a very inclusive past. They have a rich heritage in the Old Oyo empire that at a point extended to present Benin Republic. They accept they are Yoruba because their unity has been entrenched by a firm monarchy.

It is very different in the Urhobo and Isoko sense. Both groups were not lorded over by the Bini empire. The ancestors of the Isoko people left the old Bini empire because of the negative shenanigans of the Bini empire. It will be foolhardy and equivalent to me spitting on their graves to swallow their vomits. Bini-ness or whatever you call it does not exist.

I will never plead allegiance to the Bini monarch. It is equivalent to Americans pleading allegiance to the British Queen. We only accept our past heritage and leave it as that.

fratermathy:
You can never ever ever win me in any argument whether on Nairaland or in person. Maybe you should take a look at my old arguments here. If I have been able to argue with some of Nairaland's most vocal tribalists, then is it you? I'd win you hands down in both the content and form of arguments.

Isoko is a dialect of Urhobo and that is a fact that not even a blind man can deny. Isoko, I agree, is ethnically different from Urhobo due to their right to self determination. Isoko, historically, has always been known as Western Urhobo. It was not until James Otobo, a then member of parliament representing Western Urhobo, moved for the creation of Isoko division out of Urhobo division that Isokos became known as a distinct people in the cluster of Urhobo nationality. This anomaly was spearheaded by Awolowo and the NCNC for reasons best known to them. When we attained independence, Isoko Local Government Area was created from the defunct Isoko Division. When Delta State was finally created, Isoko North and South LGA was zoned to the South and that is how the Isokos started dissociating themselves politically from the Urhobos. If Isoko had been lumped in Delta Central like Okpe, trust me, Isoko would not even have the might, politically or otherwise, to claim individuality as a people.

I love Isoko and I acknowledge their ethnic distinctiveness! However, I MUST assert that Isoko is just a branch of Urhobo! What people dont understand is that Urhobo itself is not a language but a cultural indicator. In Urhobo, there are several languages such as Uvwie, Okpe, Udu, Agbon, Abraka, etc. These languages form the linguistic cluster, which in turn informs the cultural homogeneity known as Urhobo. Isoko belongs to this homogeneity. Saying otherwise will be tantamount to arguing that a Zebra does not belong to the Horse Family because it is not used for transportation!


Like I said, this is an argument YOU CAN NEVER EVER WIN! Especially not with me.

Read the Isoko part of this webpage - http://ihuanedo.ning.com/m/group/discussion?id=2971192%3ATopic%3A130200

Point to note: "The only Isoko clan that migrated from Urhoboland is the Olomoro clan which descended from Olomu clan in Ughelli South LGA about 1750-1800 AD."

In fact, more Urhobo people descended from Isoko people than Isoko people from Urhobo people. It is safe to say that Urhobo is more Isokoid than Isoko is Urhoboid.

So Isoko is not a dialect of Urhobo. The Isoko people are very peaceful and never waged war within themselves in an almost 1000 year period. They extended this peaceful co-existence to their Urhobo and Ukwani neighbors. And even welcomed migrants from Igbos in present DAY Anambra. The dialect of Isoko spoken in Igbide bear more similarity to traditional Isoko than Igbo. What does that tell you?

The Isoko ancestors shared lands, culture, and even language with their neighbors. The Urhobo could not so with their Itsekiri neighbors and like yourself look to clump the Isokos under the Urhobo tag.

The Bakassi Peninsula is in current day Cameroon. In time past, that region fell under Nigeria, now do we call those currently living there as Nigerians or those from Cameroon?

Bendel state was under the defunct western region, should the Bini and Urhobo people be called western Nigerians under the odua Republic, or Niger Deltans?

The Eastern Urhobo Native Authority is a name tagged on a region, not the prevailing identity of the people under the tag. Accordingly, the Richards constitution called for both primary groups, the Isoko and Urhobo to send a candidate each to the defunct regional western assembly.

You fail to see why Isoko was not lumped into Urhoboland. It is because we are distinct from the Urhobos.

It is an affirmative fact that Isoko is not a branch of Urhobo. The Ancestors of 94% of Isoko clans came to present day Isoko land direct from the old Bini empire. 4% came from other regions, Anambra, Baylesa, and maybe Port Harcourt. The remaining 2% came from Urhoboland. How then can any sane person say Isoko people are Urhobo people? We are Edoid not Urhoboid.

Isoko is not a dialect of Urhobo. For heaven's sake, it is a language with its own dialects.

Putting ego aside, you let emotion cloud your reasoning. It is why you are no match for my intelligent prowess.

fratermathy:
Mr. LordAdam, you dig my point now?

When the blacks in the Americas were told that they were savage beasts without souls. Did they accept it?

Your mistake is that you seem to think that we care about how others see us. People are wrong more times than they admit and no one is truly a mouthpiece for everyone from their ethnicity.

Variety is the spice of life. Deal with it. Unlike many groups, the Isoko people do not have several in-house clans trying to separate themselves.

The Okpe people think that they should be regarded as a different ethnic group. The Uvwie people do not think they should be classes as Urhobo people. Your house is falling, and you want to raise it by entering another person's house.

Most Urhobo people I know are not particular about the Isoko people saying they are different. You should grow up or at least keep your superiority complex to yourself.

fratermathy:
Whatever rocks your boat Mister! We Urhobos could care less.
All I know is that Isoko and Urhobo are cultural and linguistic derivatives of each other. Isokos get on the defensive when they hear this. It reminds me of Ikwerres who get defensive when others insinuate that they are Igboid.
Isoko may be ethnically different but without doubt, it is culturally and linguistically Urhoboid. Everyone knows this so arguing against this unveils a certain inferior defensive stand.

Don't quote me again or this argument will become the subject of this thread and trust me, you can't win it or even bear the heat.

Do not threaten me with an argument. I am yet to lose an argument on NL, and I am very sure I'll take you to the cleaners here.

Notwithstanding, I have nothing against the Urhobos, I see the Urhobo and Isoko people as cousins.

My main concern is not to blur the lines for selfish reasons. Today, the Isoko people are distinct from the Urhobo people. The Ika are different from the Aniocha people. The Ikwerre are different from the Ibos. The Hausa are different from the Fulani.

I will forgive outsiders blurring the lines. But an Urhobo person should not, especially noting the sensitivity of the matter.

This is about an heritage. Eroding the heritage of the black people was the foundation of slavery and colonization.

Some people on the other end of the world think Africa is a country. Shoot, we have 53 countries. On the outside, Nigerians are one and the same people. Darn, we have over 250 ethnic groups. On the outside, Urhobos and Isokos appear to be the same. Hold that thought, they are not.

I've never seen an Isoko person who when asked of his ethnicity, says he is an Urhobo person. During the 99' Warri crisis, the Isoko people were sympathetic with the Urhobo people. But they did not get into the fight.

Now scurry away, I am not about to spend a working day trying to re-educate an individual who was not taught by his elders to respect the identity of his neighbors.

Isoko is primarily Edoid, not Urhoboid. Stop furnishing your tattered ego thinking you are some father to another ethnic group. I don't see the same mentality from the Bini people who clearly seeded many clans in Urhobo and Isoko territories. Or from the Yorubas who posit that the Oba of Benin is Oduduwa's decendant.

fratermathy:
Keep preaching disunity! Ride on Mr.

Do not quote me if you're riding on sentiment rather than fact. The Hausa and Fulani people are not one and the same people. Same thing with the Urhobo and Isoko people.

Don't get it twisted. Each ethnicity have their unique heritage. Celebrate the uniqueness and talk about collective agreement to live together in peace. Not clumping everyone together on the altar of unity. It is insensitive and myopic.

RaDaZaBaNa:
A Friend of mine shared this
.

I am currently in a relationship with a young beautiful lady and we are working towards marriage.However.my fiancee possess one very terrible feature....She is bisexual.

Though she is very discreet and coded with the act,She told me this right from the start of the relationship and claimed she use to get advances from a lot of ladies at work and while in school and that is the only way she can stop herself from cheating with other guys and satisfy her so called " OTHER urges.
.
I continued with her thinking I will be able to change her but it almost a year and 3 months now and no change.This has resulted in my cold behaviour towards most of her female friends and co workers even though if they don't engage in the act together

.Am tired and frustrated but she keeps hammering that she does it for fun not money and it prevents her from cheating with men.She claims it in her nature,and besides she can't get pregnant and neither does it reduce her love for me.

.The funniest thing is her parents know about this and said day have tried to change her to no avail hence persuading her to inform any potential suitor about it.

Am at cross roads here.She is educated,beautiful.hardworking and everything I want in a Lady but just this one flaw. Am contemplating going on with the marriage ..since She has promised not to bring anybody to my house and also satisfy me sexually

Am just unsettled if she would not later cheat on me with guys too.. Is it not also cheating if she sleeps with other woman.What do you advise I do..

matured advices please

First rule of life. Do not actively try to change people. Even when they show willingness to change, hope for the best and expect the worst.

My advice is, do not enter the marriage if you are not okay with that part of her. If she hasn't changed in 15 months, do not expect her to change in a marriage. It's called wishful thinking and you'll lead an unhappy marriage.

If you (or your friend, not sure I believe the tale of this being the dilemma of a friend) choose to go ahead with the marriage, then accept at the back of your mind that you will be living with a bisexual for the rest of your life.

Oh, and to your cheating question. Yes, having sex with an individual of the same sex or an animal or thing (objectophilia) other than your partner is cheating.

.

.

.

Who e help?

FreeGlobe:
So by now you dont know the terrorist leading Nigeria? Are you a learner?

I didn't see the sarcasm at first. Apologies for my choice of words.

I still think dialogue is important. However, it must be with a united voice. You guys can't have Okorocha sitting on your side.

FreeGlobe:
Just like the USA, we don't negotiate with terrorists.

If you think those who are pursuing the Biafra dream are terrorists, then you, my dear, are a disgrace to our educational system.

Respect has a lot of definitions. It means different things for different people. The Yoruba say it means lying flat in front of your elder when greeting: among the Sobo (Urhobo-Isoko) people, it means getting on your knees when greeting.

I have had no issues with younger sibs, relationships, or people in general calling me by first name. Though, others would take that as a sign of disrespect at best or deserving of spanking at worst.

In romantic relationships, much of these traditional definitions get blurred more. The major contributor is the notion that these relationships are unlike the traditional relationships: that they are partnerships as well. With gender equality and women emancipation gaining on, the idea is that both parties in an emotional relationship are equal partners.

This redefines romantic relationships, because irrespective of age difference, the fast-rising consensus is that both are mates and equal in status.

For the progressives, it's a better proposition. For the conservatives, it is an hurdle. For many young adults, our mothers in the typical Nigerian society treated our fathers (their husbands) almost as much as they treated our maternal grandfathers (their fathers), if not more. Greetings and salutations were more along the "daddy" lines and explosive arguments was treated with scorn.

So for males brought up in such setting, it is understandable to see the difficulty in the equal partners arrangement.

With that said, it is entirely up to both consenting adults to dictate how they refer to each other in a relationship, without pressure or criticism. You can't be more holier than the Pope or more western than the British.

Dear, Honey, Sweet are all fancy, cool, and modern; but they do not rock the boat of everyone. If he wants to be called "Oga", then be sure you're not putting up a fight solely because none of your friends call their boos that. Understanding and compromise is necessary. Stop trying to keep up with the Joneses.

You can't ask your boo to watch plates with you, simply because your counterparts on the other side of the Atlantic use that as a love indicator.

I guess the thread was opened for laughs. But if it wasn't, let me give you a perspective that makes it understandable.

In a scenario that I had an empty account last month. Only to receive 50k later in the month and subsequently spent all of the 50k in the same month. Technically, I'm broke. However, economically the volume of my transaction for last month is N100k.

Similarly, say in a closed economy, A borrowed B 50k, then B borrowed C 20k from the 50k, the total debt profile of the economy of A, B, and C is 70k.

The world is a mess financially, and this is why there's the saying that accountants can make or break an organization, it's all about twisting the figures.

You'll be amazed how investment bankers at top-flight banks create investment portfolios with the sole aim of siphoning money from rich clients. If I'm you, I will ignore the numbers unless you need it to satisfy your interests.

Punchline: Whatsapp was sold for $18b, they weren't making up to $100m annually when they were sold. Volkswagen made annual sales of over $400b but have a valuation of around $130b.

Leave the real thang for the experts.

Omooba77:
Zero based allocation and when you multiply zero by trillions what do you get??

Read -- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-based_budgeting

I agree with the poster above. ZBB has it's merits and demerits. I'm only pointing out the feasibility of an N8 trn going by the facts from the HoR review.

laposta:
You see where you miss it (the part made in bold)?

Total revenue generated by FG does not belong to the FG alone.

Only 52% of all revenues accruing to FG's coffers belong to the FG...the balance is shared between the States and LGs.

Perhaps you need to take 52% of N8 trillion and see where it puts the FG...

This article should help.

The House of Representatives said it has uncovered what may turn out Nigeria’s biggest fraud yet, accusing the Jonathan administration of spending N16 trillion on its super offices yearly, while the entire country is given a meagre budget of about N4 trillion.

The claim was made Sunday by the House Public Accounts Committee.

The committee said while the Nigerian government complains of revenue for key projects, the same government has allowed dozens of powerful offices, graded as “statutory and extra-ministerial departments” to spend a minimum of N16 trillion yearly.

The amount spent by the offices are not regulated, audited or appropriated by the National Assembly.

Much of the figure are generated by the respective offices and are deployed at the whims of their chief executives.

Such statutory offices include the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation, NNPC, Central Bank of Nigeria, National Communications Commission, Federal Inland Revenue Services, and Nigerian Ports Authority.

The revelation came as part of an ongoing examination of finances of government and its 601 agencies, the House committee said.

The committee, which spoke through its chairman, Adeola Solomon-Olamilekan, on Sunday, said when combined with Nigeria’s official annual expenditure, the country spends over N20 trillion yearly.

Mr. Solomon-Olamilekan said the N4.3 trillion budget for 2015, amid an oil crisis, is a “far cry” which does not include the finances of “statutory and extra ministerial departments” which have been running “about N16 trillion” without public auditing.

“The N4.9tn, N4.6tn or N4.3tn, as the case may be, is the budget that the whole Nigerians are listening to but in the true sense of it, the budget of other statutory and extra-ministerial departments put together is about N16tn,” he said.

“So, the total overall budget year in year out is over N20tn, which the executive arm operates, but nobody is asking questions as to the implementation of all these budgets.

“Nobody is bringing information on the implementation of all these budgets; and this is one area Nigerians need to start asking questions in order to move this country forward,” he said.

The House committee said the federal government has encouraged the fraud to continue by deliberately refusing to fund the office of the Auditor General of the Federation, to weaken its capacity to check the violation.

The committee said by reducing the budget of office of Auditor General from N1.9 billion to N100 million in 2015, the government deliberately ensured the office no longer had the capacity to audit 601 departments and 144 foreign missions.

The big cut was carried out by the Ministry of Finance, citing falling oil revenues.

“How can we imagine that the capital budget of the office of AGF for the year 2015 was reduced from N1.9bn to N100?

“Can you also imagine an office of the AGF that has 144 foreign missions to audit and as we speak, between 1999 to date, that office has not audited up to 30 of these foreign missions while three quarter of these foreign missions are also revenue generating agencies?

“So, there is nobody to audit the revenue generated and the expenditure they incur.

“The office of the AGF has been short-changed and the budget has been reduced to nothing. As such, the government of the day is having a field day to carry out whatever its wants to do because they know they have an office that is not functioning,” Mr. Solomon-Olamilekan said.

Also, I think it is high time we expanded the responsibilities of the Auditor General. Probably create an Accountability Agency with constitutional rights, independent, and reports directly to the Senate.

Non-accountability is pivotal to the virulence of corruption. We should lay the right foundations. If we are increasing our budget to $8trn, at the end of the year, we should know what the money was used for, how it was used, and how to optimize spending in the future. If businesses do this, why not the government?

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