₦airaland Forum

caezar: The principle of self-existence is self-evident. This is an existential problem, it has nothing, in and of itself, to do with God. The argument arises between atheists and theist because it becomes self-evident that in order to resolve this existential problem there must perforce be a God.

Your analogy is a little silly, not least because you deliberately arrive at the wrong conclusion. If parents cause a child to exist, then it follows that the parents exist, not that they are self-existent. However, at some point the infinite loop has to be resolved by self-existent entities wherein we arrive at God... I really do not get how you can possibly arrive at the very opposite conclusion from this same premise

o.k, i'll make it simple 4 u. would you thereupon choose to invalidate, by this same principle of self-existence(which is presumably fraudulent in the first place), that nothing comes from nothing, which equally means saying OUT OF NOTHING COMES SOMETHING?

Deep Sight: .
For any thing to exist, something or the other must be self existent. As such, that which is self existent must be the cause of that which is not.

really? Your parents practically caused you to exist, does that make them self-existent? If they are, then how were they caused? Second, what rule determines your idea of 'self-existence'.

Nice tip there Area boy. I believe, we indeed need to identify the complexities of existence beyond the universal causation, bearing in mind the wisdom of nature's origin, if there is at all. Lucretius, in his first book, 'De Rerum Natura'( On The Nature of Things), posits:
'Principium cuius hinc nobis exordia sumet, nullam rem e nihilo gigni divinitus umquam.' meaning: 'But only nature's aspect and her law, which, teaching us, hath this exordium, nothing from nothing ever yet was born.' He opines that matter is required to make matter, and that objects can't just spring forth without a reasonable cause. He further puts: 'Nam si de nihilo fierent, ex omnibus rebus omne genus nasci posset, nil semine egeret. E mare primum homines, eterra posset oriri squamigerum genus et volucres erumpere caelo.' meaning: 'suppose all sprang from all things: any kind might take its origin from anything, no fixed seed required. Men from the sea might rise and from the land the scaly breed and fowl full fledged come bursting from the sky.' Hence, the need to resolve the quagmire of this infinite causation or otherwise use it against the infinite idea of a God.

As a diehard atheist, the existence of God has been consistently refuted as null and void. Ex nihilo nihil fit(from nothing comes nothing) is a philosophical creed first credited to the famous Greek philosopher, Parmenides, who argued that there is never a time when a world didn't exist, since it couldn't have been created out of nothing in the first place. The Greeks were largely of the belief that things cannot disappear into nothing, just as they can't be created from nothing. In other words, to say from nothing comes nothing is to say that for something to exist, it must emerge from something. It is noteworthy that this parlance(ex nihilo nihil fit) does not only refute the existence of a supreme deity, or the possibility of something emerging from nothing, but also leads to an infinite question of what creates what?! Now, most theists, based on the principle of universal causation, do subconsciously argue that things don't just exist without a cause. And as such, for the world or anything to exist, there must be a force behind it, which is called God, who is acclaimed to be revelling in heaven, in his sacred haven, amid hordes of angelic 'body-guards', while pleasurably abandoning us here on earth to suffer.
The question:
1. Can we extrapolate this expression(ex nihilo nihil fit) to validly affirm that for God to exist, he couldn't have emerged from nothing, which ultimately nullifies the existence of a God?
2. How far can we refute the validity of this expression,i.e.can we prove that somethings can actually come out of nothing, which may then validate the existence of God?
I await intelligent argument void of fallacies and biblical and mythical innuendoes.

Na goitre dey her belle. . .

Gej will soon pass out. . .no fuss!

Do we really need to prosecute them? Don't we have a firing squad to make it faster and easier? Demo crazy gan o!

Òògùn abenugògò! Okija Juju must definitely be their ringleader. Where the hell is he?₹₹scouring for Okija Juju₹₹

We would lure Gej to Ghana to kill him there too.

LMAO at '40 Laptop Men'. . .

Saxophemsy: Mehn!me dnt wanna bliv dis 2nd sept ish, i dint anticipate stayin home dat long..am already missin my ALMA MATA#sobs

your alma mater? Ain't you a student?

Suesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesuesue!

1. For what shall it profit a man, to accrue unto himself more than which he needs and have his belly bursted?
2. For what shall it profit a man, to cling to power corruptly and lose his own conscience?
3. For what shall it profit a man, if he marries six wives and dies while f*c*ing them all?
4. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall prophesy evil on people and subtly ask them to pray to abort it?
5. For what shall it profit a man, to steal public fund and go to prison?
Please, add yours. . .and let the ball roll. . .

Details in the link below.
http://www.punchng.com/news/u-s-court-orders-seizure-of-over-3m-ibori-funds/

Just got this. I imagine Nigerian govt to be such actionable and decisive.

The United States Department of Justice has secured a restraining order against more than $3 million looted funds and a mansion in Houston, Texas owned by former Delta State Governor, Chief James Ibori, in the U.S.

Ibori is currently serving a 13-year jail term in the United Kingdom for corruption and money laundering.
The department got the powers through an application filed under seal on May 16, 2012, in U.S District Court in the District of Columbia, to register and enforce two orders from United Kingdom courts against more than $3 million in corruption proceeds related to Ibori.

This was announced by Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director John Morton in a statement on the U.SDOJ website on Tuesday.

“The application, which was filed under seal on May 16, 2012, in U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia, seeks to restrain assets belonging to Governor Ibori and Bhadresh Gohil, Ibori’s former English solicitor, that are proceeds of corruption.

“Specifically, it seeks to restrain a mansion in Houston and two Merrill Lynch brokerage accounts. U.S. District Judge Lamberth granted the application and issued a restraining order under seal on May 21, 2012.

“The department was notified today that its application to unseal the restraining order was granted.

“The United States is working with the United Kingdom’s Crown Prosecution Service and the Metropolitan Police Service to forfeit these corruption proceeds,” it said.

According to the application, Ibori served as the governor of Nigeria’s oil-rich Delta State from 1999 to 2007, and misappropriated millions of dollars in Delta State funds.

He laundered those proceeds through a myriad of shell companies, intermediaries and nominees in several jurisdictions, including the UK, with the help of Gohil. Although Nigeria’s Constitution prohibits state governors from maintaining foreign bank accounts and serving as directors of private companies, Ibori and his associates accumulated millions of dollars in assets in the UK and U.S, according to the application.

Ibori was convicted in the UK of money laundering and conspiracy to defraud and was sentenced by a British court on April 18, 2012, to 13 years in prison.

Gohil was also convicted in November 2010 of money laundering and prejudicing a money laundering investigation and was sentenced by a British court to 10 years in prison.

“Instead of working to benefit the people of the Nigerian Delta, Governor Ibori pilfered state funds and accumulated immense wealth in the process,” said Assistant Attorney General Breuer.

“He conspired with Mr. Gohil to funnel millions of dollars in corruption proceeds out of Nigeria and into bank accounts and assets maintained in the names of shell companies and nominees.

“Through the Criminal Division’s Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Initiative, our message is clear: the United States will not be used as a safe haven for the ill-gotten gains of corrupt foreign officials.

“This serves as a warning to those corrupt foreign officials who abuse their power for personal financial gain and then attempt to place those funds in the U.S. financial system,” said ICE Director Morton.

“ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) special agents will continue to work with our law enforcement partners at the Department of Justice Criminal Division’s Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section to investigate and prosecute those involved in such illicit activities and hold corrupt foreign officials accountable by denying them the satisfaction of their illegal earnings.”

The case is being prosecuted by trial attorneys Woo S. Lee and Elizabeth Aloi of the Criminal Division’s Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section.

“The case was investigated by ICE HSI’s Foreign Corruption Investigations Group, HSI Asset Identification and Removal Group in Miami and HSI Attaché London.

This case is part of the Justice Department’s Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Initiative.

“This initiative is carried out by a dedicated team of prosecutors in the Criminal Division’s Asset
Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section, working in partnership with federal law enforcement agencies to forfeit the proceeds of foreign official corruption and where appropriate return those proceeds to benefit those harmed.

“Individuals with information about possible proceeds of foreign corruption located in or laundered through institutions in the United States should contact federal law enforcement or send an email to kleptocracy@usdoj.gov.

“ICE HSI’s Foreign Corruption Investigations Group in Miami targets corrupt foreign officials around the world that attempt to utilise U.S financial institutions to launder illicit funds.
“The group conducts investigations into the laundering of proceeds emanating from foreign public corruption, bribery or embezzlement.

“The objective is to prevent foreign derived ill-gotten gains from entering the U.S financial infrastructure, to seize identified assets in the United States and repatriate these funds on behalf of those affected by foreign official corruption,” the statement added.

http://www.punchng.com/news/u-s-court-orders-seizure-of-over-3m-ibori-funds/

@Muyeskin, is it true this awry news about 2nd sept resumption date? How true, please?

Acidosis: The love of POWER is killing this nation.

not far from the truth.

iykak47: Nice question, people should know that mallam Tunde Bakare is not above the law.

yes. He is not above the law. So tell me, honourable friend of the 'law', how has he breached the law?

antitpiah: ^^^

Since you are not a tax payer, why dont you just zip it. The tax payers are not complaining, wetin be your own sho?

stop seeking mischief where it is not. The state has the constitutional power to summon, invite or arrest anyone culpable of mischief. The same constitution also provides a limit to that. Except if one is blinded by prejudice, if you read the said sermon texts, it is convincingly veritable; there's no gaffe whatsoever: he didn't throw caution to the winds by violating his right to personal liberty, right to freedom of expression and the press, and right to peaceful assembly and association, as entrenched respectively in sections 35,39,and 40 of the god-forsaken 1999 constitution(as nonsensically amended 2011)! It's hightime we started thinking in the direction of others, otherwise we lose it.

Hang all these people and let's have our fresh air!

Oya, can't wait for the proper DNA. . .

The invite isn't of worth at all!

I dey laugh o!

Sources say after over an hour interrogation at the SSS office, he was released to go.
http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/olufamous?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.olufamous.com%2F2012%2F07%2Fsermon-against-jonathan-sss-releases.html#1032

Me too I go Harvard now or Toronto. . .warefa!

Just as I expected. . .overbloated rebuttal and unnecessary distraction, augured by morbid fear and presidential idleness!

Sorry, no heaven, no hell. . .ó dàbò!

Na who wan fight crime? Police? Hen dey chop hen intestine?

shaneroberts26: Bros,Hope Uzodimma is from Omuma in Oru East L.G.A not Orlu.

sorry, there is a mix-up. Omuma Oru-East is his birth local govt. But he's said to be representing Orlu Senatorial District. Little wonder his official website says Imo West Senatorial District. May be anyone that knows him better should tell us the exact. Here is the link to his official website.
http://www.nassnig.org/nass/portfolio/profile.php?id=SEN.+UZODINMA+HOPE+O.

Institutionalised rogues!

Sorry, I've not been ordained by God to comment. . .just passing. . .

I got his name from facebook. He's senator Hope Odidika Uzodinma. He's from Omuma Oru-East local govt in Imo state.