₦airaland Forum

Niflheim:
4 reasons why Hardmirror might have left Nairaland.....
1.After explaining that Evolution is about the colorado potato beetle becoming resistant to 50 known pesticides, someone will still say,"NOW SHOW ME THE 'COCKROACHYAM' WHOSE FATHER WAS A COCKROACH AND THE MOTHER WAS A COCOYAM". 2.After explaining that the big bang is an expansion of space and time, some genius will still ask, "BUT WHO CAUSED THE EXPLOSION?". 3.After explaining that ghosts are not real, someone will still ask, "BUT WHAT ABOUT CASPER THE FRIENDLY GHOST?". 4.After explaining that juju does not work, someone will still say,"BUT THE BABALAWO IN MY VILLAGE SAID THAT HE WILL MAKE THE RAIN TO STOP FALLING, AND IT EVENTUALLY STOPPED!!!"

Dude long time.

Kobojunkie:
You are right! My mistake was in my assumption that the word "concubine" was used, in the bible, only in reference the unmarried women kept by the men. But as you rightly pointed out, even Keturah who was rightly married to Abraham was referred to as a concubine in the book of chronicles.

Without a ceremony what was the entry point for the married status for a concubine?

cococandy:
Crab soup

When I was younger I ate crab till I became sick of it, haven't eaten since then. Would sure like to get back on the horse.

Kobojunkie:
I don't see it. Go ahead and show me.

Compare:
First of all, God already declared it against Him - this in His Law - for anyone of His people to take to themselves concubines. So, His "silence" when a person goes against that which He has decreed, should not then be mistaken for approval of any kind from God.

With:
Those of the Old Covenant had additional laws as I previously showed in Exodus 21 and , I believe Deuteronomy 20, which permitted the having of lesser wives also referred to as slave wives/concubines in some cases.

You directly contradicted yourself. Declaring first that your god did not give permission then flipping and saying he did.

Kobojunkie:
Yes, I do remember it well.

I would also hope you see how you have contradicted yourself.

MightySparrow:
Ok o. Which other sources gives an alternative to existence with confidence? Charles Darwin? Francis creek?

Many sources. I already mentioned the human genome, a living "storybook" that surpasses any mythological tale. It points out how truly all living things are relatedly the outpouring of natural processes. There is also the history locked in our ancestral bones dating back to before man could even record history. The very ground on which you walk on also tells a tale more ancient that you can comprehend. Since you like stories, go listen to those,they are real and yet wondrous.

triplechoice:
The subject matter of the op is not to discuss the color of your God or Jesus but how we implicitly contibute to racism. If my reference has pricked you, then know that not everyone imagine God or Jesus as white.

BTW why jump in here to attack the personality of Lordreed? Where did that came from?

If you have issues with him before now, has your Jesus ask you to pursue him here.
Please don't derail the thread.

If you can't find any meaning in the op, please get something else to engage you

Forget that guy, not worth the effort.

Kobojunkie:
Monogamy?

You are taking this where it ought to even venture at all. What I quoted was Jesus Christ affirming the decree God gave in Genesis 2 vs 24 regarding the definition of marriage - a union between a man and a woman. Nothing of that says monogamy is the decree!

Adultery as Jesus Christ made clear, in the Law He represents, is defined as a man divorcing his wife only to then marry another woman, or a woman divorcing her husband only to then marry another man. This different from Old Covenant description of the same sin.

Remember this:

Kobojunkie:
First of all, God already declared it against Him - this in His Law - for anyone of His people to take to themselves concubines. So, His "silence" when a person goes against that which He has decreed, should not then be mistaken for approval of any kind from God.

Secondly, God, on numerous occasions, condemned sin, including adultery, among His people. He did this severally through His prophets.

MightySparrow:
All religions have rites and creeds, Christianity stands out in that it is only religion that gives credible origin of creation, traced human existence to the first pair,

A story from an ancient scroll is not evidence of a first pair from which all humans originate nor does it give a credible account of the formation of our environment. The Human genome does not evince a single pair source for the human specie. No real world proof supports this story so where did you get this trace from? Neither does the creation story have any real world evidence.

Besides the origin of the story is not Christianity so you are misattributing its existence to your religion.

triplechoice:
What every African should know.

How do we defeat *racism*, if we ourselves don't understand the difference between " *IMPLICIT* " and " *EXPLICIT* " racism ?

Get informed and learn how to consciously debate or discuss racism if confronted with it.

https://www.verywellmind.com/implicit-bias-overview-4178401

*Get informed about IMPLICIT and EXPLICIT racism...*

_What every black person must know about racism_

*Explicit* racism includes any speech or behaviors that demonstrate a conscious acknowledgement of racist attitudes and beliefs. By contrast, *implicit* racism includes unconscious biases, expectations, or tendencies that exist within an individual, regardless of ill-will or any self-aware prejudices.

Making ourselves to be more conscious about the "Topic" *Racism*

_Simple explanation_ :

Unconscious racial stereotypes are a major example of implicit bias. In other words, having an automatic preference for one race over another without even being aware of this bias.

So any time you imagine that God or Jesus to be White, then there's a lot wrong with you.

* Footnote* Topic inspired and paraphrased from a friend's WhatsApp chat.

I encountered an excellent resource for testing implicit biases. I tested quite well for racism with no implicit bias but my implicit religious bias remains skewed towards Christianity. I was able to gain more insight it my behaviours and it made me appreciate myself more.

Here's the link:

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatouchtest.html

They have a bunch of tests for all sorts of biases. Check it out.

My test result below.

othermen:
Experience is just one piece out of many requirements for a job. However it is a very piece, more than your education or qualification, it says you can do the job.

It should depend on the position being filled. High critical positions can have experience as a criteria as success here can be crucial but less critical positions should be allowed some growth on the job. You could even develop a more skilled pool of candidates for your more critical roles if you allow your workforce develop on the job with the added advantage of them being a "made for the job fit".

If you are the go jejely type that likes to do things at your own pace, the FG job is good. You'll have a lot of opportunities to do your own thing on the side without clashing too much with your job.

Image123:
Stop learning English from a Chinese only to later blame the English. OT and NT are not the same T.

Lagbaja Nothing For You!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd-MeDtmIbA

Talk Heathen is an atheist YouTube channel. The result of a poll they conducted.

kingxsamz:
Lol, that guy is confused on his own.

E tire person o! LoL

Kobojunkie:
Monogamy?

You are taking this where it ought to even venture at all. What I quoted was Jesus Christ affirming the decree God gave in Genesis 2 vs 24 regarding the definition of marriage - a union between a man and a woman. Nothing of that says monogamy is the decree!

Adultery as Jesus Christ made clear, in the Law He represents, is defined as a man divorcing his wife only to then marry another woman, or a woman divorcing her husband only to then marry another man. This different from Old Covenant description of the same sin.

LMFAO! Divorcing and remarrying is adultery but marrying multiple wives is not. SMH Bwahahahaha! I can't anymore. LoLz!

The dissonance is as clear as summer daylight.

Image123:
Aptly describes my hobby with you, well that was before you started to see me as some kind of sugar daddy to fear. Fear God reed, not me.

Lagbaja Nothing For You!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd-MeDtmIbA

hupernikao:
You are giving text but neglecting the ones I gave you. We can't be honest with Bible study if we don't consider all texts. The texts I gave you are there. I only gave you two each. They are more.

So, like I said.

Are there texts that stated God hardened Pharaoh heart? Yes

Are there texts that stated Pharaoh hardened his own heart? Yes.

So to be fair with the scriptures, you have to look at both and fully understand what is being discussed. You are already concluding that it's God thereby neglecting the other statement, that is not adequate as Bible defence.

I am sure you hold science in high esteem. In human research and study, you don't take a statement out of a research and explain it while neglecting the other part of the write up that counter it. Yih will end up getting wrong result or conclusion. Then why doing it to the Bible.

So, you need to bring all texts to your explanation to arrive at your conclusion.

So your god lied then. He did not really harden those people's hearts he is just claiming credit for doing it.

What about Ahab? Let's hear your explanation of why your god sending a lying spirit is not manipulation.

hupernikao:
I will give you two simple texts to joggle your conclusion. There won't be much explanation from me for some reasons but read the below.

Exo 8
15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was a respite, he (Pharaoh) hardened his heart and would not listen to them, as the Lord had said.

Pharaoh here did it by himself.

32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go
Here also.


Exo 7
13 And he (God) hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.

God was referred here.

Exo 9
12 But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.

Here also.


Then we ask, who truly is responsible for pharaohs heart. What exactly was Moses writing. What does this mean in their days.


So, you see, it calls for a thorough study and investigation. Bible study is a tedious word to arrive a conclusion. Reason Paul told Timothy to study hard, like someone who want to get A1 in school.

So, the hardness of heart must be thoroughly studied all through the scriptures before conclusion.

Either your god is a liar or he says things he doesn't mean. He declares way before Pharaoh even has a chance to make a decision that he god will harden Pharaoh's heart.
Exodus 4:21
And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
Exodus 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt.
Exodus 9:12
But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses.
Exodus 10:1
Now the Lord said to Moses, “Go in to Pharaoh; for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his servants, that I may show these signs of Mine before him,
Exodus 10:20
But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the children of Israel go.
Exodus 14:8
And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued the children of Israel; and the children of Israel went out with boldness.
Exodus 14:4
Then I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, so that he will pursue them; and I will gain honor over Pharaoh and over all his army, that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord.” And they did so.

Turns out Pharaoh is not the only one to suffer such a fate:

Deuteronomy 2:30
“But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass through, for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into your hand, as it is this day.

So which is it, is your god lying?

What of Ahab? Deceived into battle that will end his life.

2 Chronicles 18:21
So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the Lord said, ‘You shall persuade him and also prevail; go out and do so.’
2 Chronicles 18:22
Therefore look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you.”

The evidence is staring you in the face.

hupernikao:
You didn't read those text well Bro. Those are text that we already have our mind manipulated by drama, story books and pictures before we even come in contact to read then. This is what is influencing your claim about God controlling Pharoah. Like I said, you have to read the full story to conclude. If you read all text about Pharoah you will understand. Hardening of heart wasn't mentioned on Pharoah alone,

Hebrew writer, Psalms all explained how hardening of heart comes. That is what should guide your interpretation.



Lastly, don't interpret Bible like a 2021 scholar. You must draw your interpretation from the writers time, language, culture of their time and events. You are using 2021 mind to explain a text written over 2000 years ago. You won't be correct. It will just be like reading about Joshua stopping the Sun and you are using the knowledge of 2021 science to interpret it. You will err. You will say the Sun was never in motion which is true. But that doesn't make Joshua wrong. You are the one who should travel back to their time and borrow the knowledge of science of their days. Then you will understand why he wrote such. All knowledge of their days point to Sun as one revolving even the science of their days and that is what they will use in their language and events.


So, try to sit at their state then look at the scriptures and re read again to understand their language, and usage of words and use it to interpret events of their days.

This is how you can understand the intent of the author and get him right.

Dude don't even start with that. It is clearly written there that god hardened Pharaoh's heart. It is clearly written that god sent a spirit to go deceive Ahab to his death. You clearly want it to mean something other than what is clearly stated, your god is manipulative.

Kobojunkie:
Your conclusion makes no sense to me since there isn't evidence of even Abraham committing adultery from what I have said so far.

You quoted Jesus saying that a man who marries another woman is committing adultery, it is not rocket science to draw the conclusion that you are clearly in support of monogamy. Abraham and the rest were not monogamous so they were committing adultery according to you, except of course god gave them a special grace to continue committing adultery since he didn't want them to marry multiple wives but he allowed them to anyway.

Why I take the trouble to engage in all these is that it just seems to me that you folk hide yourselves from the implications of the things you say. You tie yourselves into pretzels trying to explain this convoluted mess and can't see that you are contradicting yourselves or maybe you do know you are contradicting yourself but are so caught up in the cognitive dissonance you just go with the flow.

hupernikao:
I trust you will get to a point of scriptures intent. I am sure.

Just a little thing is still causing the issue. That is, the issue of what God's action is and his sovereignty.

You need to get the Bible explanation of God and not what you have been told. There is no where you read that God manipulate. These are your words. And like I told you, free will and manipulation can't be in same context, same as love and mind control. You need to have a different view of what Bible explained about all these virtue above.

You can't love and manipulate, even if you do it for the person's gain, it's an act of selfishness. Your will is what was carried out not the persons will. This is not how God was explained in the Bible.

---

God, allows man's decision all through the scriptures. And I have pointed it out to you.

You saw it in Eden, in Cain, all through the scriptures. Where God surpasses man is his ability to work, persevere, wait, long suffer all through man's decision and still end up saving man. That is the singular story of the Bible. Any other is false.

Whose decision is it when Joseph was boosting to his brother, God or Joseph?

Whose decision was it, when the brother sold him to Egypt? God or his brother?

Whose decision was it when Jacob sent the brothers to Egypt? God or Jacob.

All these above were not God's decision but theirs. This is what happens to us daily. We make decisions, we go daily about just like them and make decisions. Blaming our decision on God will be a lie.

---

For example, today most crime in Nigeria is blamed on the devil. That's a convenient excuse and you know it. It is man that engage his mind to do evil and give room for the devil to act. Man's will is what shapes our world.
Science, philosophy, farming, music are all man's invention. The same as weapons, bombs.

God works through it all to make his will known without having to manipulate te man but allow man's free will. This is why he is supreme. An ability to work through all man's dispositions without enforcing his will on man yet working it out for man is God supreme.

Except the Bible specifically says your god influenced people in certain ways. Pharaoh is a prime example, your god said he hardened his heart. Ahab was deceived into going out to war so he could be killed. These are actions of your god not merely a passive waiting for the stars to align.

Kobojunkie:
1. Marriage remains the same for those of us who follow Jesus Christ said in Matthew 19 vs 4 - 6

2. God had a Covenant with Abraham which may have included laws defining marriage in his case. Since, I don't know the details of that Law, I can't speak to it in anyway. All I know is that he was married to all 3 women - Sarah, Hagar and Keturah.

3. Those of the Old Covenant had additional laws as I previously showed in Exodus 21 and , I believe Deuteronomy 20, which permitted the having of lesser wives also referred to as slave wives/concubines in some cases.

So apparently Abraham and the rest had been committing adultery since they had wives and concubines but your god overlooked them or gave them special grace, like that Abuja pastor. I guess god can give you special grace to marry more than one wife and have concubines. LMFAO!

Kobojunkie:
1. If the man is of the Old Covenant Law, sure.

2. I don't know since I dont know the details of the Law that exiisted between God and Abraham.

Now you are contradicting yourself. You just said god hasn't changed marrige but somehow there is a difference because of what you call Old Covenant Law or some Law that was between Abraham and your god. What of Solomon did he have his own special Law too? David? Gideon?

Kobojunkie:
I don't know where you got the idea that it is now a sin to be married without a ceremony from , this since God never changed his mind as far as the definition of marrriage.

And as I already showed you previously, in Genesis 15 vs 3 , Hagar was listed as Abraham's wife and so also was Keturah , in Genesis 25 vs 1.

So a man can marry multiple wives and have concubines since god has not changed right?

The bible is wrong then in calling Keturah a concubine.

Kobojunkie:
God never required your marriage ceremonies in His definition of marriage.
Second, I refer to them as wives, because they were referred to as Abraham's wives in the Bible.

LMAO! Your god recognises marriages without ceremony but somehow it's now a sin to do the same today.

Keturah and Hagar were concubines not wives.
1 Chronicles 1:32
Now the sons born to Keturah, Abraham’s concubine

Kobojunkie:
I am not sure from the story if they did or did not get a marriage ceremony. What makes them wives and what makes them lesser? I don't know. All I know is in Abraham's case, they were wives who were referred to as concubines.

From the cultural context of what can be gleaned from historical data, they did not get marriage ceremonies. Which is why I dunno how you are able to refer to them as wives. The only difference between the olden days practice and what is obtainable now is the concubines were allowed to live in the same house with the wives.

Kobojunkie:
Well, as I explained to the OP, what Abraham had were lesser wives, and not sidechicks/mistresses(unmarried).

They didn't get a marriage ceremony so what makes them wives and what makes them lesser?

Kobojunkie:
But, I didn't use the word "concubine" in my comment there?

Sidekick, mistress, concubine mean the same thing in this context, they are not wives.

Kobojunkie:
Are you sure about that?

You wrote:

Kobojunkie:
Abraham, as it turns out, was married to Hagar - Genesis 16 vs 3 - and Keturah - Genesis 25 vs 1. So, they were not "side chicks" ,instead they were lesser wives or even what some translations consider slave wives.

What is the difference between what you wrote and the definition of concubine?

Kobojunkie:
I am? A distinction between what?

Between what Hagar was and what a concubine was.

Kobojunkie:
Why ask me?

Because you're the one trying to make a distinction.