What you said is incorrect. The law of Tithing is older than anyone alive today. When we talk about it, we do not have anyone in mind. We are simply talking about the message in the Bible. Tithing belongs to the Mosaic law, but as Christians, we were not advised to pay Tithe in the new covenant.

MightySparrow:
Tithing is generating so much controversy because it is giving to God. Prayer is not because it is asking for God. Funny believers..
If you love God give Him 11% and stop complaining.

A tenth part, or 10 percent, given or paid as a tribute, especially for religious purposes.

The Bible tells of two instances prior to the setting up of the Law covenant in which a tenth part of possessions was paid to God or to his representative. The first of these was on the occasion when Abraham gave Melchizedek one tenth of the spoils of his victory over Chedorlaomer and his allies. (Ge 14:18-20) The apostle Paul cites this incident as proof that Christ’s priesthood according to the manner of Melchizedek is superior to that of Levi, since Levi, being in the loins of Abraham, paid tithes, in effect, to Melchizedek. (Heb 7:4-10) The second case concerned Jacob, who vowed at Bethel to give one tenth of his substance to God.—Ge 28:20-22.

These two accounts, however, are merely instances of voluntarily giving one tenth. There is no record to the effect that Abraham or Jacob commanded their descendants to follow such examples, thereby establishing a religious practice, custom, or law. It would have been superfluous for Jacob, if already under a compulsory obligation to pay tithes, to vow to do so, as he did. It is therefore evident that the tithing arrangement was not a custom or a law among the early Hebrews. It was instituted with the inauguration of the Law covenant, not before.

MOSAIC TITHING LAWS
Jehovah gave Israel tithing laws for definite purposes, apparently involving the use of two tenths of their annual income, except during the Sabbath years, when no tithe was paid, since no income was anticipated. (Le 25:1-12) However, some scholars believe there was only one tithe. Such tithes were in addition to the firstfruits they were under obligation to offer to Jehovah.—Ex 23:19; 34:26.

The first tithe, consisting of one tenth of the produce of the land and fruit trees and (evidently of the increase) of the herds and flocks, was brought to the sanctuary and given to the Levites, since they had no inheritance in the land but were devoted to the service of the sanctuary. (Le 27:30-32; Nu 18:21, 24) The Levites, in turn, gave a tenth of what they received to the Aaronic priesthood for their support.—Nu 18:25-29.

Evidently the grain was threshed and the fruit of the vine and of the olive tree was converted into wine and oil before tithing. (Nu 18:27, 30; Ne 10:37) If an Israelite wished to give money instead of this produce, he could do so, provided he added an additional fifth to the valuation. (Le 27:31) But it was different with the flock and the herd. As the animals came out of the pen one by one through a gate, the owner stood by the gate with a rod and marked every tenth one as the tithe, without examination or selection.—Le 27:32, 33.

It seems there was an additional tithe, a second tenth, set aside each year for purposes other than the direct support of the Levitical priesthood, though the Levites shared in it. Normally it was used and enjoyed in large measure by the Israelite family when assembling together at the national festivals. In cases where the distance to Jerusalem was too great for the convenient transport of this tithe, then the produce was converted into money and this, in turn, was used in Jerusalem for the household’s sustenance and enjoyment during the holy convention there. (De 12:4-7, 11, 17, 18; 14:22-27) Then, at the end of every third and sixth years of the seven-year sabbatical cycle, this tithe, instead of being used to defray expenses at the national assemblies, was set aside for the Levites, alien residents, widows, and fatherless boys in the local community.—De 14:28, 29; 26:12.

These tithing laws binding on Israel were not excessive. Nor should it be overlooked that God promised to prosper Israel by opening “the floodgates of the heavens” if his tithing laws were obeyed. (Mal 3:10; De 28:1, 2, 11-14) When the people became negligent as to tithing, the priesthood suffered, for the priests and Levites were forced to spend their time in secular work and consequently neglected their ministerial services. (Ne 13:10) Such unfaithfulness tended to bring about a decline in true worship. Sadly, when the ten tribes fell away to calf worship, they used the tithe to support that false religion. (Am 4:4, 5) On the other hand, when Israel was faithful to Jehovah and was under the rule of righteous administrators, tithing for the Levites was restored, and true to Jehovah’s promise, there were no shortages.—2Ch 31:4-12; Ne 10:37, 38; 12:44; 13:11-13.

Under the Law there was no stated penalty to be applied to a person failing to tithe. Jehovah placed all under a strong moral obligation to provide the tithe; at the end of the three-year tithing cycle, they were required to confess before him that the tithe had been paid in full. (De 26:12-15) Anything wrongfully withheld was viewed as something stolen from God.—Mal 3:7-9.

By the first century C.E., the Jewish religious leaders, particularly among the scribes and Pharisees, were making a sanctimonious show of tithing and other outward works, in a form of worship, but their hearts were far removed from God. (Mt 15:1-9) Jesus reproved them for their selfish, hypocritical attitude, calling attention to their being meticulous to give a tenth even of “the mint and the dill and the cumin”—something they should have done—yet at the same time disregarding “the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness.” (Mt 23:23; Lu 11:42) By way of illustration, Jesus contrasted the Pharisee who boastfully felt self-righteous because of his own works of fasting and tithing, with the tax collector who, though considered as nothing by the Pharisee, humbled himself, confessed his sins to God, and begged for divine mercy.—Lu 18:9-14.

NO TITHING FOR CHRISTIANS
At no time were first-century Christians commanded to pay tithes. The primary purpose of the tithing arrangement under the Law had been to support Israel’s temple and priesthood; consequently the obligation to pay tithes would cease when that Mosaic Law covenant came to an end as fulfilled, through Christ’s death on the torture stake. (Eph 2:15; Col 2:13, 14) It is true that Levitical priests continued serving at the temple in Jerusalem until it was destroyed in 70 C.E., but Christians from and after 33 C.E. became part of a new spiritual priesthood that was not supported by tithes.—Ro 6:14; Heb 7:12; 1Pe 2:9.

As Christians, they were encouraged to give support to the Christian ministry both by their own ministerial activity and by material contributions. Instead of giving fixed, specified amounts to defray congregational expenses, they were to contribute “according to what a person has,” giving “as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2Co 8:12; 9:7) They were encouraged to follow the principle: “Let the older men who preside in a fine way be reckoned worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching. For the scripture says: ‘You must not muzzle a bull when it threshes out the grain’; also: ‘The workman is worthy of his wages.’” (1Ti 5:17, 18) However, the apostle Paul set an example in seeking to avoid bringing an undue financial burden on the congregation.—Ac 18:3; 1Th 2:9.

I am delighted to see your dedication to spiritual matters. Your inclusion of Bible verses is a gem and I encourage that.
However, the last revelation was given to apostle John. James 1:25 "But the one who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and continues in it has become... a doer of the work..."
So, we believe that we can draw closer to Jehovah by peering into the deep things of his word.
If you believe that you will receive further revelation, it is your belief and no human can judge you for that.

The holy spirit was poured out in Pentecost 33 CE and so many remarkable works took place as documented in the scriptures. Prophecies were revealed and according to the Bible, we were told that all those special gifts would cease. 1 Corinthians 13:9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.
And what would be left would be what is recorded in 1 Corinthians 13:13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.
Jesus said that by love, his loyal ones would be identified John 13:35.
Furthermore, we have to consistently pray for the holy spirit to help us to gain a deeper understanding of God's word.

Jacksonville:
The bible is complete, did I dispute that? ... Do you know that it was through revelations the apostles and prophets wrote them? Do you know that Paul was well learned in the Law and teachings of Christ, but why did he emphasize on revelations? We have the Holy Spirit to give us this revelations of Christ in our time. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will come to teach us all truth. If I may ask, what is this truth that we don't have yet? It's not my words but the Jesus's...

John16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth : for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

@The emboldened the Holy Spirit will speak to us... Isn't that a revelation? Or Jesus didn't mean it.. He will show us.. What is there to show us if we don't know it already?
2Corinthians 12:1 it is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.


Same Paul an apostle of Christ prayed for the Church of Ephesus for God's spirit to be poured upon his people in wisdom and revelatory knowledge of him so they can serve him better.... Without this spiritual aid you will serve God like the people of the law who served because it was like a duty or custom.. But in revelation you serve because you have a personal relationship with him. He speaks and you hear him. (John10:27) " My sheep hear my voice, I know them and they follow me"

Ephesians 1:16-17.
16.Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
[17] That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

I'm not mincing words here... It's the scripture..

Galatians 1:11-12.
11.But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

[12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Take note of the emboldened. He didn't say doctrine but revelations of Christ... It's scriptural..
God is not a one pattern God he works in dimensions you can't fathom. When I said one doctrine I know what I meant. There are spirits that are not of God roaming about indoctrinating the body with false teachings... The spirit of God comes to unite and not divide.

God doesn't lie. So when a denomination says "communion is not good" but another says "it is. We do it in remembrance of Christ as the Lord commands" etc .. Now tell me, who is deceiving who, is it the spirit of God? The spirit of God is one and true, it doesn't divide, confuses or segregates...

Apparently, the Bible is our only authority to learning about God.
Bro, there are many doctrines and we cannot unite them as one. It did not begin today. Jude 1:4 "certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men".
The Bible acknowledges these doctrines and trying to unite them is going against Jesus' teaching in Matthew 13:24-30; "24 He presented another illustration to them, saying: “The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. .... 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’”

Hebrews 1:2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son,+ whom he appointed heir of all things,+ and through whom he made the systems of things.
waiting for a revelation now is like telling God that the Bible is insufficient for you. The Bible says that God HAS SPOKEN. Who are we to question that?
Romans 15:4 For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance+ and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.
so, the question is, what further instruction do we need?
1 Corinthians 10:11 Neither be murmurers, as some of them murmured, only to perish by the destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.
If you are asking for revelations then of what use is the Bible?
2 Timothy 3:16-17 reads, " 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching,+ for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work".
If the Bible can make you completely equipped and competent, what then is the use of a further revelation? Our God is not one of conflict. The Bible says that he last spoke to Jesus and the book of Revelation is a vision revealing things that will mark the end of this system of things and beyond. If we truly love Jehovah, then there should be nothing more special now than seeking that kingdom already revealed to us.
The Bible is our key to survival. Digging into it for spiritual gems is our task and in that way, we will be able to filter the nonsense spread about in the name of religion, philosophy, and doctrine.

Jacksonville:
Now I know where you're coming from. It's a 'doctrine' thing. If we don't reason from the Bible, then where else do we need to reason from?
It's clear there are now different interpretations of God's word by denominations of course with scriptural backings, which is why we have the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth. I don't believe in division but unity because the last thing Christ wants is for his body to be divided in the name of "doctrines"..

The body of Christ shouldn't be aligned with the difference in doctrines but oneness in teachings and revelatory knowledge of Christ Jesus with the aid of the Holy Spirit.. Why the church is dividing is because of the lack of revelation and the true spiritual form of service. Just like the Samaritan woman in John 4.. Jesus said she knew not the God she worships because she was unspiritual in her service to God hence she can't catch a revelatory glimpse of whom God is...



There's a dimension where you get to commune with the Lord.. As he speaks, you hear clearly because you have in you Christ, with oneness in spirit ..(1corinthians 6:16-17) This is direct revelation... But you must grow by eating God's word and obeying his teachings..

We know Jesus is the Son of God... You know it but you raised up this thread to dispute the claim that he was also God because you were taught to believe what you had to... The scripture is perfect. I eat it, it's milk n neat for spiritual growth. .. But I want to move in a dimension of revelations of God, the author ND inspirer ... Jesus existed before everything was created, who was he? If you can't tell me and I cant find it anywhere, then only him can.. This was the very essence he came to die for the world, to restore the connection man had with God ,with that his kingdom can be established on earth...

John5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. [40] And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Proverbs 8 gives us a clear view of who the "us" represents.

Proverbs 8:22
Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,+
The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
23 From ancient times I was installed,
From the start, from times earlier than the earth.
30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.
I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;
I rejoiced before him all the time;

The emboldened above shows us that Jesus was first produced and installed beside Jehovah God. That is a glorious position that he has always cherished. The only person beside him is the "us" referred in your question.

1 Corinthians 8:6 also gives us a good information when it says that everything came through Jesus and from Jehovah God.

Stephen vision corroborates that in Acts 7:56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

So, who else could Jehovah have referred to as "us" if not Jesus through whom we were made and the one who sits right beside him?

bloodofthelamb:
MAY I ASK YOU ONE QUESTION. WHO ARE THE US THAT GOD WAS REFERING TO IN THE ACCOUNT OF CREATION?

As it stands, I opt out of this form of conversation with you. It always leads to nowhere as you are never satisfied. The making of rules is out of order. You do not give me a command as to how to answer your question. I am not in your classroom. Like I said, I am not here to show intellectual prowess, therefore, if I cannot quote the scriptures there is no conversation.

saintmark88:

Oga you have been talking, even went further to call Jesus a creation. Which I feel is insulting to the person of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I will ask u some few questions.....pls ansa with just a name....no quoting scriptures...just ansa with a name

I would like to state that one of the reasons for this misconception is that LORD was used in place of the name of God, Jehovah. If you have the name fully inscribed in your translation, it would make the distinction.
One thing that I would like to ask you, was Jesus wrong to have told you that YOUR GOD and his GOD is the father in John 20:17? Do not use the argument of being in human form to negate Jesus existence here because, during his baptism, Jehovah proudly and publicly called him his son in Luke 9:35. So saying prehuman or human existence negates or underscores the pronouncement in Luke 9:35. Jehovah was not stupid to have affirmed that Jesus is his son even in his human form.
You need to understand the difference between mighty and ALMIGHTY. The difference is huge and in no verse in the Bible was Almighty used to refer to Jesus.

joshnes:
lovingJehovah, all you have said are post Jesus revelation on earth. What you need to understand is that Jesus was a man on earth, you quoted the scripture yourself, the Word became flesh. Phil 2 talks about Jesus having the form of God, but had to become a servant to save mankind. In that servanthood, he could not be God, He had dropped the form of God and pointed all men to the father (He Himself Being The Father Isa 9:6, John 14:9). He relinquished His Godness but not His sonship. He is THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, that is God. Because He took the shame and relinquished His Godness, your view is limited to only Jesus the man, not Jesus THE MIGHTY GOD.

Peace, my brother!
The point I wanted to clarify is that the words are not mine. They are from God's word the Bible that is why I said that I wasn't selling it. We are only reasoning from the Bible and I do not want to sound intellectual as to overshadow the real message of God hence the "I know nothing without the Bible" comment.
If there Is God the son isn't it plausible that there could be God the father who begot the son
I brought forward your previous statement. Well, If I get you correctly, I do not believe in "God the son" doctrine. I was lost with that statement. We, Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in God the son, because the Bible does not teach that. We believe in the "son of God".

Jacksonville:
Sorry if you felt insulted. It's not my intention, but if you never sold a point, what does your post reads then,? You don't agree you're making a point, OK what essence then? I'm not gonna play mind games and you won't tell me you don't understand what my "3rd statement " implies. It's evident I extrapolated from scriptural truths..

Shalom..

I appreciate your contribution.
The Bible never said that Jesus was Jehovah's body. It says that he is the image of God. Think about it, if an artist sculpts an image of you, does that mean that you and the artwork are equal? No, it is only a representation of you.
1 Peter 3:18 says that Jesus was made alive a spirit. So, there is no way for him to be a spirit and yet be the flesh representing the spirit of God to become one body.
We picture God as a human being that is why we make up the Body and spirit theory. The Bible clearly states that God is a spirit. So he doesn't need a complement to make him whole. Jesus himself is a creation as the Bible states in Colossians 1:15.
Let us put it the way the Bible puts it, Mark 10:8 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh" and compare this to another Bible verse 1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God".
Those verses do not conflict. That is how it is with God. The Bible itself mentioned the hierarchy in the same statement. Just as a man is above the wife, so is God above Jesus. Remember, they are used in the same sentence.

bloodofthelamb:
LOVING JEHOVAH, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS DISPUTING THAT GOD THE FATHER IS NOT THE HEAD OF JESUS, JUST AS JESUS IS OUR HEAD, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE CHRIST JESUS NOT BEING GOD AS HIS FATHER AND HEAD IS GOD...

ACCORDING TO YOUR REASONING IF CHRIST JESUS IS NOT GOD, THEN HIS FATHER AND HEAD IS NOT EQUALLY GOD.. BECAUSE THE HEAD CANNOT BE ANOTHER THING, AND THE BODY ANOTHER THING. THINK ABOUT IT WITH AN OPEN MIND, THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND. PEACE!

Brilliant question!
Now let me answer it using the Bible

Do you believe Jesus existed before He came to earth?

John 6:38
for I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me

So, yes!

If yes, what was He in heaven?

Colossians 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

John 1:14
14 So the Word became flesh+ and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son+ from a father; and he was full of divine favor* and truth.

1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God,+ the Father,+ from whom all things are and we for him;+ and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him

John 5:36
But I have the witness greater than that of John, for the very works that my Father assigned me to accomplish, these works that I am doing, bear witness that the Father sent me

Genesis 1:26
Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness

Proverbs 8:30
Then I was beside him as a master worker.
I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;
I rejoiced before him all the time

John 5:19
Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing.+ For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner

Psalm 110:1
Jehovah declared to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand+
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet

In a nutshell, he was a beloved son waiting patiently for Jehovah's right time to subdue his enemies. As the firstborn of all CREATION, He was a good student and a master worker used to bring everything into existence.

joshnes:
lovingJehovah, please answer this.

That was an insult, to begin with.
Anyway, right from the get-go, I have never given you the impression that I was selling a point to you. I have always responded to questions using the Bible. You are simply disappointed that I did not give you the kind of response that you have programmed for this particular subject. Your question was a bait but I am not into games. We are more interested in sharing the Bible's message and not our own viewpoint. Let me reiterate, I know nothing without the Bible.
I do not understand what you aer trying to say in your 3rd sentence in

Jacksonville:
You talk too much I guess. If you can quote the Bible to ascertain your claims then why can't you be plain with the question I asked?

Here you are giving me the "i don't know all " attitude. You were too quick to prove your point that Jesus isnt God the son but the son of God. If there Is God the son isn't it plausible that there could be God the father who begot the son (I do not understand what you are trying to say here) ...Which means the son is a son of God? What's it there that you cannot comprehend in this?

I'm not doing this with you else we keep going back n forth. All these you're quoting I've gone through all before and I'm not disputing any... Thanks

Let us read it together

Isaiah 44:6

New World Translation
This is what Jehovah says,
The King of Israel+ and his Repurchaser,+ Jehovah of armies:
‘I am the first and I am the last.+
There is no God but me.

King James Bible 2011
Thus saith Jehovah the King of Israel, and his redeemer Jehovah of hosts;
I am the first, and I am the last;
and beside me there is no God.

World English Bible
This is what Yahweh, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of Armies, says: "I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

Young's Literal Translation
Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: 'I am the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.

Darby Bible Translation
Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I [am] the first, and I [am] the last, and beside me there is no God.

American Standard Version
Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

You must be very surprised. Do you feel robbed?

bingbagbo:


Really?

Jesus is a God?


End of debate

Please check Isaiah 44:6

Let me paste it here so that we may read it together.
1 Timothy 3:16
New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

New Living Translation
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.

English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

International Standard Version
By common confession, the secret of our godly worship is great: In flesh was he revealed to sight, kept righteous by the Spirit's might, adored by angels singing. To nations was he manifest, believing souls found peace and rest, our Lord in heaven reigning!

English Revised Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, received up in glory.

These are all Trinitarian Bibles LOL so enjoy the controversy. You may also post your own Bible translation here.
Below is JW NWT

Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh,+ was declared righteous in spirit,+ appeared to angels,+ was preached about among nations,+ was believed upon in the world,+ was received up in glory.’

bingbagbo:



Really? Read 1 Timothy 3:16

No, bro. I am not the author of the Bible. As you can see, I have been quoting every response of mine from the scriptures. I know nothing without the Bible. I am not here to share my opinion or point but the Bible's viewpoint. I encourage you to do some deep research to find out the first century Christians' translation of the Bible. It cuts through all the mess and dogma circulating in town.

rekinomtla:


I was expecting you to answer my question directly, not avoid it.

Right there in front of you. It is in your Bible. Were you expecting me to refer you to our NWT? Nope! Didn't you take your time to read the verses I quoted? Jesus himself said it. 1 Corinthians has the answer.

rekinomtla:


I'm asking about John opening verse that says "the word was God", you said I should blame my translation, hence I asked what's the correct translation?

Jesus is a god Just as it is written in 1 Corinthians 8:6. Jesus himself said that we have an ONLY TRUE GOD as you can read in John 17:3. And he said that our everlasting life means knowing his father, the ONLY TRUE GOD who is Jehovah also he himself. To authenticate what he said in John 17:3, he went on in John 20:17 to say that he ascended to OUR GOD. So, the question is do you believe Jesus when he said that? Or did he lie to you?

rekinomtla:


That doesn't answer my question.

Brilliant question!
Now, you can find the answer right in 1 Corinthians 8:6 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

rekinomtla:

What's the correct translation?

I emboldened the controversy in your comment.
I see that you quoted John 1:3 "...without him nothing was made".
But something that you failed to realize is the preposition "THROUGH" that was used in that verse in your Bible.
A postman is not the originator of the message that he delivered but it came through him. That is the point that you are missing. You might read it again for clarity.

1 Corinthians 8:6 also corroborates the verse that you quoted earlier, 'there is actually to us one God, the Father, FROM whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom all things are and we THROUGH him.

Don't get it twisted though, we do believe in Jesus. He himself told us in John 17:3 that Jehovah is the ONLY true God. Also he told us that our God is the father, Jehovah in John 20:17. Calling Jesus our God means calling him a liar and thereby disrespecting his father. If he wanted us to call him God he would have clearly stated that.

I know that this is hard for you seeing that you have had this concept all your life, but the word of God comes above any human's perception. It is a gift from our loving creator, Jehovah.

joshnes:
When man begets a child, the child is a man. The same when God begets a son, He is God (John 1:1). In John 14:8-9, What Jesus said effectively was I Am the Father. Philip asked to see the Father, Jesus' reply was have I been so long with you that you don't know ME. In other words, what you're looking for is right in front of you and what was he looking for? The Father. In Phil 2:5-7, we are made to understand that Jesus had the form of God, but dropped the reputation and did not seek equality with God here on earth. For Him to drop a reputation, He must have one, which the scripture said is the "the form of God". You need to understand that here on earth, Jesus humbled Himself before God and became low, to die for you and I. This did not change His deity thereafter or therebefore, Jesus upholds everything by The Power Of His Word. The world was made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made. Unless you are saying that God did not make the world, then Jesus is not God.

I am not the author of the Bible to make a point to you. If you care to hear the Bible's point, let us view it together in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us ONE GOD, THE FATHER, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, THROUGH WHOM all things are and we through him.

Before reading the second verse that has another answer to your question, I will like you to refresh your mind with 1 Timothy 2:4 'God's...will is that all sorts of people...COME TO AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH'.

Now, the subsequent verse is in 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is ONE GOD, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.

Jacksonville:
Your point exactly.... Is Jesus God or not?

The Bible never recorded God in the flesh. God is a spirit as John 4:24 says. There is nothing like not being equal to God because he was in the flesh. 1 Peter 3:18 says that Jesus was made alive in the spirit. Do you believe that verse? So, at the time that he became a spirit, did he become coequal to God? No!
A noteworthy thing is the account in John 14:6 where Jesus said that he is the way. The way to who? God! Can you be a way and be the destination at the same time?
If he revealed his identity after his death, why was he still unable to tell the end of this system of things? He said that even the angels in heaven who are spirits do not know. So becoming a spirit does not equal him to God.
John 5:30 "I can do nothing on My own initiative".
Jesus has told you that just as he sees his father doing, he learned. In John 5:20 you can see how the father taught and still teaches Jesus. You cannot be coequal to someone whose initiative you carry out, someone who teaches you, and above all someone who you are a FIRSTBORN to.

Jacksonville:

God is a title.. The sooner you get to understand this, the better for you. If you had eyes you would see from my post that Im not disputing that he is the son of God, He is. John 1:1 says he is God... Jesus says he isn't greater than his father, but they are one... In essence he is God the son...

John14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would
rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for
my Father is greater than I .

The father is greater than the son, because you don't expect Jesus in flesh being in form of a man to proclaim himself equal with God when his mission was to draw men to God... in spirit they are one(John10:30) and that is God..

He said he will draw men to himself (God) when he is liftedfrom earth .. John13:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

It was after his death and ressurection he revealed his identity .. Says "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Rev1:8

In Matthew 19:5 Jesus made a similar comment about a man becoming one with his wife and you don't need anybody to explain that verse to you either. In 1 Corinthians 11:3 we also read that the man is the head of the woman. Do those verses have conflicting meaning? No! It is very clear that a man and a woman becomes one after marriage. They now have a union and they have a single goal unitedly. That does not make them coequal. That does not make the woman a man or the man a woman.

In John 14:8-9 Jesus never claimed to be the father, he says whoever sees me has seen the father also. Recall that the Bible says that no man can see God and continue living. Did the people who saw Jesus die? No! They kept on living. If you proceed to the eleventh verse he says that the father is in him and he is also in the father. John 17:21 says that we should also be in the father. Does it then mean that we are God's coequal? No!
Matthew 25:40 Jesus said that if you do it to the least of these that you do it for him. But come to think of it, did you literally do it for Jesus? No! But, the purpose of which you did it reflects on his attributes and he is pleased with it and will reward you himself.
If he were God almighty or coequal, he would not waste a minute to tell it.
But he is the son of God and not God the son

joshnes:
John 10:30 "I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE". John 14:8-9 "PHILIP SAITH UNTO HIM, LORD SHEW US THE FATHER, AND IT SUFFICETH US. JESUS SAID UNTO HIM, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME PHILIP? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; AND HOW SAYEST THOU THEN, SHEW US THE FATHER?" I think you should read these scripures, you don't need anybody to explain these verses to you.

Well, you have to blame your Bible translation for that mess.
Jesus has spoken, and he is the word. It is left for you to accept or decline.

John 20:17 "...I'm ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and YOUR God.'"
It is only your choice if to accept the word of Jesus when he told you who YOUR GOD is. He said that he ascended to YOUR GOD and you think that he lied to you?
He said, "YOUR GOD" and he left no option after that.
Or, is your God satan? Are you on Jesus side when he said that or on your own side?? Are you going to argue with him on that?

John 17;3 He said that Jehovah is the ONLY TRUE GOD and in John 20:17 he said that he is YOUR GOD.
You and I don't deserve it but out of Jehovah's undeserved kindness, he called us to be his children yet you turn down that offer and decide to deify his son above him.
How thoughtful of you.

rekinomtla:


Does John call him a liar in the beginning of his gospel?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning."

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Are we not literally calling him a liar by calling him God or coequal? He calls Jehovah the ONLY TRUE GOD (ONLY). If he himself could make such strong and affirmative statement, then who are we to deify him or to make him God or God's coequal?

In John 17:21 "May they also be in us..." Does it mean that we are also God's coequal? Give me a break!

1 Corinthians 11:3 "...the head of Christ is God". Does it mean that the woman and the man are coequal? Does it mean that the man and
Christ are coequal?

Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father".
This alone is a clear distinction between the two. They are one just as he compared the man to the woman and the man to himself. In ONE family there is the man who is placed above the woman; Jehovah and Jesus also are one in purpose as John 5:30 clearly states.

IN YOUR copy of the Bible, how is Psalm 83:18 translated? The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures renders this verse: “May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” A number of other Bible translations give similar renderings. However, many translations leave out the name Jehovah, replacing it with such titles as “Lord” or “Eternal.” What belongs in this verse? A title or the name Jehovah?

The Tetragrammaton—the way the divine name is written in Hebrew
God’s name in Hebrew letters
This verse speaks about a name. In the original Hebrew in which much of the Bible was written, a unique personal name appears here. It is spelled יהוה (YHWH) in Hebrew letters. In English, the common rendering of that name is “Jehovah.” Does that name occur in only one Bible verse? No. It appears in the original text of the Hebrew Scriptures nearly 7,000 times!

How important is God’s name? Consider the model prayer that Jesus Christ gave. It begins this way: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.” (Matthew 6:9) Later, Jesus prayed to God: “Father, glorify your name.” In response, God spoke from heaven, saying: “I have glorified it and will glorify it again.” (John 12:28) Clearly, God’s name is of the utmost importance. Why, then, have some translators left this name out of their translations of the Bible and replaced it with titles?

There seem to be two main reasons. First, many claim that the name should not be used because the original way to pronounce it is unknown today. Ancient Hebrew was written without vowels. Therefore, no one today can say for sure exactly how people of Bible times pronounced YHWH. However, should this prevent us from using God’s name? In Bible times, the name Jesus may have been pronounced Yeshua or possibly Yehoshua​—no one can say for certain. Yet, people the world over today use different forms of the name Jesus, pronouncing it in the way that is common in their language. They do not hesitate to use the name just because they do not know its first-century pronunciation. Similarly, if you were to travel to a foreign land, you might well find that your own name sounds quite different in another tongue. Hence, uncertainty about the ancient pronunciation of God’s name is no reason for not using it.

A second reason often given for omitting God’s name from the Bible involves a long-standing tradition of the Jews. Many of them hold that God’s name should never be pronounced. This belief is evidently based on a misapplication of a Bible law that states: “You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave unpunished the one who takes up His name in a worthless way.”​—Exodus 20:7.

This law forbids the misuse of God’s name. But does it forbid the respectful use of his name? Not at all. The writers of the Hebrew Bible (the “Old Testament”) were all faithful men who lived by the Law that God gave to the ancient Israelites. Yet, they made frequent use of God’s name. For instance, they included it in many psalms that were sung out loud by crowds of worshippers. Jehovah God even instructed his worshippers to call on his name, and faithful ones obeyed. (Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21) Hence, Christians today do not hesitate to use God’s name respectfully, as Jesus surely did.​—John 17:26.

In replacing God’s name with titles, Bible translators make a serious mistake. They make God seem remote and impersonal, whereas the Bible urges humans to cultivate “close friendship with Jehovah.” (Psalm 25:14) Think of a close friend of yours. How close would you really be if you never learned your friend’s name? Similarly, when people are kept in ignorance about God’s name, Jehovah, how can they become truly close to God? Furthermore, when people do not use God’s name, they also lack knowledge of its wonderful meaning. What does the divine name mean?

God himself explained the meaning of his name to his faithful servant Moses. When Moses asked about God’s name, Jehovah replied: “I Will Become What I Choose to Become.” (Exodus 3:14) Rotherham’s translation renders those words: “I Will Become whatsoever I please.” So Jehovah can become whatever is needed in order to fulfill his purposes, and he can cause to happen whatever is required with regard to his creation and the accomplishment of his purpose.

Suppose that you could become whatever you wanted to become. What would you do for your friends? If one of them became seriously ill, you could become a skilled doctor and perform a cure. If another suffered a financial loss, you could become a wealthy benefactor and come to his rescue. The truth is, though, that you are limited in what you can become. All of us are. As you study the Bible, you will be amazed to see how Jehovah becomes whatever is needed in order to fulfill his promises. And it pleases him to use his power in behalf of those who love him. (2 Chronicles 16:9) These beautiful facets of Jehovah’s personality are lost to those who do not know his name.

Clearly, the name Jehovah belongs in the Bible. Knowing its meaning and using it freely in our worship are powerful aids in drawing closer to our heavenly Father, Jehovah.

Canard!

MOSICATED5:
[s]This post is meant to discuss the Jws cult and not the Catholic church,[/s]

You brought the Catholic church into our conversation. I never mentioned them but you did use the Catholic Church to compare us. See how frantic you sound over the mention of Catholic church LOL. Poor you!

[s]asking me about my religion is baseless because my religion has nothing to do with the fact that the watchtower cult is dying in the developed world.[/s]

You are attacking my religion and not my doctrine. Defunct reasoning! Since you attack the religion then it is only fair that we compare it to yours. Be bold and tell us the religion that you represent. Only a coward would attack a dying man. Our religion is dying (as you say) and you are attacking us. What does that say of you?
Here is some enlightenment for you. There are over 8.4 million active witnesses proclaiming the message of Jehovah. I inserted a chart below so that you can compare Jehovah's army to that of any human government. We are a large army Psalm 68:11. This is something apostates do not reveal to you. And, it will interest you to know that we are this large amidst the persecution and hatred from people of your breed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses.
You may view the link to see a few of what Jehovah's witnesses endure in almost every country. Your church cannot endure the intensity of pressure and persecution that Jehovah's witnesses endure. It will be of great interest to tell you the reason for our success. Come along with me to the last part of Matthew 28:20 And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

[s] Jw call other Christians names but they fell judged when we expose the evil in the American mind controlling cult.[/s]

we expose Who are the "we"? If the Bible's message that we proclaim calls you names, then accept it for being guilty as proclaimed in the Bible.

[s] Tithe is not compulsory in an church it is voluntary too, criticizing tithing why the GB (Satan's servants) keep asking for donations shows their hypocrisy. [/s]

You are making a mess of yourself online by making a sentence of this nature. You may go on YouTube to listen to your daddies preaching about tithing. I am sure you read stories on Nairaland. If the GB has ever asked you for donation you may share the receipt. Now, here is how the JW handle cash. Every month, the account is read out to everyone in the congregation. Wherever the money goes, everyone knows. We do not have a special daddy who collects our money to his own gain. When there is a need, the congregation comes together. We are one no matter the race and place. There is no distinction between white and black, educated and non-educated. Jehovah educates us all.

[s]It is no news that the Jws wrote their own NWT to teach their satanic message. They even included Jehovah a named not found in the original Hebrew manuscripts as Gods name. That alone shows the the Jws are out to fight the true God. [/s]

Yes, we wrote the New World translation and if that is a problem for you, then, who wrote the Jerusalem Bible, Good News Bible, Berean study Bible, Bishop Bible, KJV etc? There is a plethora of translations and why pick on ours when the others have conflicting interpretations? (Proverbs 4:16). Our NWT is to cut through the dogma and tell the truth about Jehovah and Jesus just as it is written in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures. For example, your most cherished and the most popular Bible KJV made a heretic insertion of diabolic doctrine in the Bible. You may find that in 1 John 5:7 and I indulge you to read it on http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm. That link has some of the Trinitarian Bible translations but you can see the conflict.
The Good News Bible changed Matthew 5:5 literally to equivocation and here is a link of other translations. Get a Good News Bible and compare to these other translations. http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-5.htm. Please, edify yourself. The replacement of the divine name of our God, Jehovah to LORD is one of the greatest sins by man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah. Follow that link to see that this battle is bigger than Satan himself who you advocate. Learn before you speak. William Tyndale was killed for that name and yet his work which was proclaimed heresy was used to translate the KJV and the KJV is used to translate these translations that you see today. William Tyndale clearly wrote Exodus 6:3 as JEHOVAH which is the translation of the Tetragrammaton YHWH (Yehowah as Jesus is also Yehoshua). Jehovah is the true name of our God and only devil incarnates will push you to reject the name of your creator. And the Bishop Bible already recorded that name while the Pope endorsed it. Do you want to call the Pope a heretic? Say it loud and get devoured LOL.
For your information, the king James translators regret replacing the name of God with LORD and here to announce to you, drum roll please! This link http://www.dnkjb.net/ is the new KJV released in 2011 and they have restored the name, JEHOVAH to wherever they took it out from in 1611. What a testimony! Don't mess with our God. We boldly represent the name of our God Acts 1:8.
These are few of the reasons why we needed a genuine and more trusted translation of the Holy scriptures. And in 1950, we completed the first part of the Bible in English with the name of our sovereign ruler and the creator of the heavens and the universe, JEHOVAH. In the completed version we translated the name as it appears in the Bible over 7000 times. The name holds a record for the most mentioned name in the Bible. Over 7000 times. That figure "7" is a special figure for God. It means perfection.
I see susceptibility in you and I believe that you could be bright if you rather spend your time doing some positive research than witch-hunting the JW. Not just because of the JW but to have your naivety keeled over. I attached 2 pictures of the Catholic and orthodox church walls on which the name "JEHOVAH was etched. And, these are just a few. You would need to attack the Catholics and orthodoxies before coming for the JW regarding that name.

[s]Jesus taught us to call God father even in the lords prayer. Jesus called God father, Abbah I wonder how the Jws brought the name Jehovah to the new testament a name not found in the original scriptures[/s]

Your spelling of Abba is a giveaway. The Islamic "H' at the end LOL.
Brought the name Is it a plate of rice? Jesus himself said in John 17:26 that he has made the NAME of his father known. Ask KJV of his name and they will educate you as to how they removed, replaced and restored the name. You need to know of the Tetragrammaton that is translated as Jehovah. I will also attach a copy of the Masoretic text for your enlightenment. Just a brief information, the Masoretic text was copied when Jesus was alive. So It was during his lifetime and you can see how Jehovah's name glows in it. That is why Jesus said that he made it known. He did because the Jews criminalize the use of the name. They quoted Exodus 20:7 as a basis for their superstition. You will also recall that these same people were the ones Jesus condemned and called hypocrites, are you one? Jesus was not cowed into that sort of fetish belief. He made the name KNOWN.
Psalms 83:18 KJV 1611 urges us to make JEHOVAH's name KNOWN to people. Now that you have come to speak against the name that is older than all your generations, are you not from the pit of the demons? Are you the one mentioned in Jeremiah 23:27? "...they plan to make my people forget my name". Did you question the name "Lucifer" when you heard it? No! It shows on which side you stand.
You may also want to see how the dead sea scroll was miraculously discovered hence exposing the heresies told by the church concerning the name of our God, Jehovah. I dare you to do some research. Be ahead of the apostates and ridiculers. Reading is free! Research is also.
Jehovah's Witnesses prefer to reason from the scriptures and not talk from our heads or hear through the grapevine.

Ask them this question.
If your doctor asks you to abstain from alcohol, would it be safe to consume it intravenously?

Peacefullove:


Abeg me I get question.

for pesin wey no believe bible, no problem .

but if una insist sey na that book called Bible u wan follow, answer me this question .



' but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. ' Act 15 vs 29



your bible said you Christians should abstain from blood , The word ' Abstain ' , what does it mean ?

Same Bible also say ' Abstain from fornication ' in the same bible portion, no be so ?

If Blood transfusion is not eating blood since what is transfused is not through the mouth, it means if a person have sex from the anus, He is never guilty of Fornication since he didn't penetrate the vagina ?

I need your view Sir .

JMAN05:


Well,

Simply ask them the church that they represent. Someone who is condemning the Jehovah's witnesses must have something to compare us to. If they cannot answer, then you know it is not worth the time.
If they attack our belief then they should have an alternative belief backed by the scriptures. They thrive better trying to make a case with trivial. They will never stop. We do not force them to accept our doctrines and they act as if they are so special in this world. They do not care about the Bible's message, what they want to do is launch attacks and have their fill.
Just ignore the apostates and spend your time with sincere-hearted ones.

Ludicrous! I award you a barrel of laughs for plagiarising comments made by YouTubers (bloggers) who are out to make money for their channels and blogs. Most of those videos are made by apostates who have been disfellowshipped from our organization and they resort to spite rather than changing their immoral ways of life. We do not look for numbers, we seek sincere hearts that truly want to serve Jehovah and uphold true worship. Instead of changing texts in the Bible, we change our lifestyles to align with Jehovah's standard as recorded in the Bible.

Let me start off by letting you know that Nigeria has a different perspective of the word "cult". You made no sense at all to the average Nigerian by calling us a cult. Include that in your lessons-learned-in-life diary. Be creative with words that are more socially acceptable to the audience and you may be able to pass a message across.
Your trial to masquerade your distaste toward the doctrine of Catholic church shows double standard and an innate chronology of untruthfulness in you. You condemned something that your thought was created by Jehovah's witnesses and I sent you a link to the Catholic encyclopedia. You checked it and discovered that the Catholics are culpable of the same thing that you accuse the Jehovah's witnesses. It took you a while to digest the information. Suddenly, you toned down and tried to fool the Catholics by sweetening your words. Call them the same name that you called us on that same subject and I will know that you are honest. You are so scared LOL.
The only way the Jehovah's witnesses can control your mind is by directing it to the Bible so that you may read the word of God. And, if that is a bad thing, you may blame Jesus who commanded us to do it at Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:20 "and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you...". So, we are teaching you, MOSICATED5 to obey Jesus commands and here you have it at Proverbs 6:16-19. 16 There are six things that Jehovah hates;
Yes, seven things that he detests:
17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart plotting wicked schemes, and feet that run quickly to evil,
19 A false witness who lies with every breath,
And anyone sowing contentions among brothers

Examine those verses carefully and you will find that you just got read.

JW did not ask you to donate any money to them. You are not in our organization to be talking about our finances and we do not make rules on donation. What we do in our organization is voluntary donation FYI. We do not pay tithe because tithing belongs to the old covenant just as the Sabbath is.
Jehovah's witnesses have a good record of raising their kids. Do not teach us how to raise our kids. If you are going to teach your kids how to spend their ice-cream money, go ahead. We are doing a fine work already in raising our kids and to Jehovah's praise, a Jehovah's witness family was honored by President Putin. Drum rolls, please!
It is notable because Putin is the head of the Government that banned Jehovah's witnesses and called us terrorists. Such an irony, isn't it? View the link to watch how we fare in raising our kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-0Wp0wWXmg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4nYxzD2Quc
The above links are things the apostates will never show or tell you about.
You do not know anything about the Jehovah's witnesses and you are attacking the GB that you do not know. Are you against the JW or against the GB or against our beliefs? You should elucidate for clarity.
Nevertheless, I will like to ask you about your own religion. What religion do you represent?

MOSICATED5:
The Catholic church don't call other Christians Babylon the great nor teach that only Catholics will be saved. But ur false prophesying, mind controlling American cult dose that. Most Jws are nice people that is why am not against them but am against the satanic GB that dose nothing than seat back in luxury in Warwick and lie, cover up the lie and lie again then ask poor Africans they don't care about for donations. The GB shamelessly ask children to donate their ice cream money to them

JMAN05:


Well,

They are stumbling because they are disobedient to the word. To this very end they were appointed 1 Peter 2:8.
Here is an analysis of their doctrine

BIBLE VS TRINITARIANS

1. I am ascending to my Father and your Father,
to my God and your God. John 20:17
TRINITARIANS
No! You are lying. You are our God.
You and that person that you call God are the same; coequal.
You are ascending to yourself.
We know you better than you know yourself


2. The Son is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation Colossians 1:15
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. He is not the image he is the original person.
He is the creator. He is his own firstborn. The same person.

3. the sacred secret that was hidden from the past
systems of things and from the past generations
But now it has been revealed to his holy ones
Colossians 1:26
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. God is a mystery. It is called the Godhead.
You are not disclosing anything, liar. He is the same one as Jehovah
(YHWH). He only appeared in the flesh to reveal his own self.

4. For there is one God, and one mediator between
God and men, a man, Christ Jesus 1 Timothy 2:5
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. There are 3 Gods in one mysterious Godhead
God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit.
The mediators are Mary, the saints and our pastors (daddies).


5. there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom
all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord,
Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we
through him. 1 Corinthians 8:6
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. There are 3 Gods in one Godhead.
All things came from Jesus. We are from Jesus and not the father.
Insert holy spirit in that verse to make it three.

6. Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying:
“This is my Son, the one who I have chosen.
Listen to him. Luke 9:35
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. He is not your son. He is God the son.
You did not choose him, you are coequal.
You are the same person that we see.

7. But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited
earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him. Hebrews 1:6
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. He is God and not your firstborn.
He brought himself to the earth and we know his as God the son.
The way you call him son of God in the Bible is wrong and disrespectful and it should be changed to God the son and not son of God.

8. In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah
your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service. Luke 4:8
TRINITARIANS
You are lying.
We must not serve Jehovah, we must serve Jesus.
Jesus is our God and he lied to us when he made that statement.

9. Concerning that day and hour nobody knows,
neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son,
but only the Father. Matthew 24:36
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. You are deceiving us.
How can you be our God and say that you do not know when the world would end?
You know!
You are COEQUAL and one Godhead.
3 heads should have the same brain.


10. Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said:
“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Matthew 3:17
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. You are a soliloquist. No voice came from heaven,
He is not the son, he is the God he is the same one speaking but he is in the flesh now.

11. I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative.
Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous
because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him
who sent me John 5:30
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. You are a God. The God from whom we all came.
You are doing your own will. Yes, you are doing your own initiative
because you are our God.

12. But I want you to know that the head of every man
is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man;
in turn, the head of the Christ is God 1 Corinthians 11:3
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. No one is above Jesus. He is our God.
This verse is taken out of context. I will not accept it.
Paul was drunk when he wrote it.

13. “Father, if you want to, remove this cup from me.
Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place
Luke 22:42
TRINITARIANS
you are lying. You gave yourself that cup.
It is your will to drink that cup.
It is your will taking place.
You are praying to yourself, the other part of you that you left in heaven.

14. About the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice,
saying: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” that is, “My God,
my God, why have you forsaken me? Matthew 27:46
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. You have no God, you are God the son.
This is a stunt because of his fleshly body.
Jesus, you are our God and you have no other God above you.
You should call him "mate" because you are coequal Gods.

15. Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I
put your enemies beneath your feet”’ Matthew 22:44
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. Jesus is sitting at your own right hand.
Same person sitting at his own right hand

16. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven
and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
Acts 7:55
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. He was the same person sitting down at his own right hand.
There is nothing impossible for him to do. Stephen did not get the vision right.
He was mentally unstable at the time.
He should have seen the holy spirit on the other side because they are three in one godhead.

17. This means everlasting life, their coming to know you,
the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ
John 17:3
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. We only need to know Jesus.
They are the same spirit in that verse to make up the Trinity.
insert something in the verse the way KJV added to 1 John 5:7.
He is the only true God. so Jesus is sufficient for us.
And you need to insert the holy



18. Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah
DEUTERONOMY 6:4
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. There are 3 Gods. The three Gods are one in purpose.
God is a mystery.
This verse is taken out of context.
You are a cult.
You are not Christians.


19. For God loved the world so much that he gave his
only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
TRINITARIANS
You are lying. It should have been, Jesus loved himself so much that he gave God the son to save the world.





My conversation with a mate in the office yesterday.
Trinitarian: Jesus said I and the father are one. So, that means that they are coequal.
me: But the Trinity is 3 coequal in one Godhead so where is the spot for the holy spirit in "I and the father" (2 persons)?
Trinitarians: The Trinity is a mystery. You cannot understand it by taking things out of context
me: I only asked a question based on your doctrine, I didn't take anything out of context.
Trinitarian: You Jehovah's witnesses are brainwashed...

on the average, It doesn't get any better than aggressiveness and equivocation
The Bible is the truth and no matter how they circumvent it always leads to the same truth. Even after inserting unfounded texts in their Bibles and removing vital points, the road still leads to the truth hidden where everyone who truly wants to serve Jehovah will find it.

The battle of Armageddon refers to the final war between human governments and God. These governments and their supporters oppose God even now by refusing to submit to his rulership. (Psalm 2:2) The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.—Daniel 2:44.

The word “Armageddon” occurs only once in the Bible, at Revelation 16:16. Prophetically, Revelation shows that at “the place that is called in Hebrew Armageddon,” “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will be gathered “together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.”—Revelation 16:14.

Who will fight at Armageddon? Jesus Christ will lead a heavenly army to victory over God’s enemies. (Revelation 19:11-16, 19-21) These enemies include those who oppose God’s authority and who treat God with contempt.—Ezekiel 39:7.

Will Armageddon literally be fought in the Middle East? No. Rather than being restricted to one area, the battle of Armageddon will encompass the whole earth.—Jeremiah 25:32-34; Ezekiel 39:17-20.

Armageddon, sometimes rendered “Har–Magedon” (Hebrew Har Meghiddohnʹ), means “Mountain of Megiddo.” Megiddo was once a city in the territory of ancient Israel. History tells of decisive battles that were fought in its vicinity, including some that are recorded in the Bible. (Judges 5:19, 20; 2 Kings 9:27; 23:29) However, Armageddon cannot refer to the literal area near ancient Megiddo. There is no large mountain there, and even the entire adjoining Low Plain of Jezreel could not contain all those who will fight against God. Instead, Armageddon is the worldwide situation in which the nations assemble in their last stand against rule by God.

What will conditions be like during the battle of Armageddon? While we do not know how God will use his power, he will have at his disposal weapons such as those he has used in the past—hail, earthquake, flooding downpour, fire and sulfur, lightning, and disease. (Job 38:22, 23; Ezekiel 38:19, 22; Habakkuk 3:10, 11; Zechariah 14:12) In confusion, at least some of God’s enemies will kill each other, yet they will ultimately realize that it is God who is fighting against them.—Ezekiel 38:21, 23; Zechariah 14:13.

Will Armageddon be the end of the world? It will not be the end of our planet, since the earth is mankind’s eternal home. (Psalm 37:29; 96:10; Ecclesiastes 1:4) Rather than destroying humanity, Armageddon actually saves it, because “a great crowd” of God’s servants will survive.—Revelation 7:9, 14; Psalm 37:34.

Besides referring to the earth, though, the word “world” in the Bible sometimes refers to wicked human society opposed to God. (1 John 2:15-17) In this sense, Armageddon will bring “the end of the world.”—Matthew 24:3, King James Version.

When will Armageddon take place? When discussing the “great tribulation” that culminates in the battle of Armageddon, Jesus said: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:21, 36) Nevertheless, the Bible does show that Armageddon takes place during Jesus’ invisible presence, which began in 1914.—Matthew 24:37-39

What is Armageddon?

Some people believe . . .

that it will be a global destruction by nuclear weapons or environmental ruin. What do you think?

What the Bible says

Armageddon is the symbolic place of “the war of the great day of God the Almighty,” his war against the wicked.​—Revelation 16:14, 16.

What else can we learn from the Bible?

God fights the war of Armageddon, not to ruin the earth, but to save it from ruin by humankind.​—Revelation 11:18.
The war of Armageddon will end all wars.​—Psalm 46:8, 9.
Is it possible to survive the war of Armageddon?

What would you say?

Yes
No
Maybe
What the Bible says

“A great crowd” of people from all nations will survive “the great tribulation,” which will end with the war of Armageddon.​—Revelation 7:9, 14.

What else can we learn from the Bible?

God wants as many as possible to survive Armageddon. He destroys the wicked only as a last resort.​—Ezekiel 18:32.
The Bible explains how to survive Armageddon.​—Zephaniah 2:3.

I really appreciate your compliment.
I am only trying to have a conversation but some people seem to be out for a competition. There is no medal awarded after the entire melee that he and his cohort propagate and that is what baffles me, the effervescence of their storylines. I would rather spend my time with some civilized and cultured minds than waste it away just spiraling.
Well, he had his 15 minutes already so he can run away with that.
I am only in the religious section and I am honored that you followed my write-ups.
Whatever we do we always endeavour to adhere to 1 Corinthians 10:32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God (New International Version).
Jehovah's Witnesses try not to go low with debaters who smear us with unfounded theories. They try in many ways to drag us in the mud but Jehovah keeps sustaining us. Check any topic that has Jehovah's witnesses on it and you will notice how they troop in to carry out what is written in Proverbs 4:16 For evil people can't sleep until they've done their evil deed for the day. They can't rest until they've caused someone to stumble.
We do not go to war for us to be accused of killing their relatives, we do not vote for us to be accused of voting in embezzlers, we do not deprive them of their right to worship, we do not consider them enemies because we know that our real enemy is Satan the devil as in Ephesians 6:12. So, the hate is out of spite and not about our doctrine. They just hate us and we do not care because Jesus told us that we will be objects of hate as in Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
The ones you see here are nothing compared to what we face in reality. Russia has banned our organization against our fundamental human right of freedom to worship. In almost all corners of the earth, we are killed, persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, denied access to schools, bullied, blasphemed, denied employment etc. These anti-Jehovah's Witnesses are free to practise their faiths and the governments of most countries back them up. Their leaders are allegedly friends with the authorities, shake hands and dine with them, and participate in decision makings. We only rely on Jehovah and then they still come up here to condemn and disparage us.
If they had the power, they would kill us all just as Hitler vowed to do before he met his Waterloo. We do not fight back because we keep our eyes on the real prize that our God has promised us in his kingdom. All you see today will soon be a thing of the past.
Isn't it funny that someone without a firm grip on the basic English grammar rules would call men who speak with poise and lucidity before cameras illiterate? When did literacy become a benchmark for worshipping God? Can't you see that they have deviated from the main reason why Jesus came to the earth? They use education to classify their own kind.
This is why Jesus' commanded us in Matthew 28:20, "and teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the time".

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