₦airaland Forum

LilMissFavvy:
As a Christian, would you feel good to see a helpless man, with wounds on his body, dogs lick his wounds, he eats the crumbs that falls from your table, yet it doesn't bug your conscience? Does that sound like someone who knew Christ? If he was a good man, he would have helped Lazarus.

Uchesis:
Its like asking me to jump from frying pan to fire

cornelboy:
They'll be the one saying JWs are brainwashed, whereas they are the ones that are brainwashed with Catholics pagan dogmas.
If the earth was going to be destroyed, that would make Satan the winner.

Emusan:
So what will kill them?

You haven't answered my question, did anything survive in Sodom and Gomorrah after Jehovah rained fire down on them?

Image123:
How is it a fact?

Emusan:
Isn't Armageddon a global thing too?

So many people won't know Armageddon has taken place ko

Besides, when Jehovah rained down fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, wasn't everything destroyed?

Thee funny thing is how you always pride in your ignorance! Your organization has over 100 pictures of Armageddon, which is total destruction of building, road, infrastructures, human e.t.c

Anyway, do I expect you not to start changing mouth after you realized you've goofy?
Lol....yet you quoted a verse that talked about destruction of ALL LIVING CREATURES
This delusion is very strong.

cornelboy:
"In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. At the end he will destroy everything because Satan interrupted his plans."
False religion has really done a lot of harm.


God will restore the earth!

Emusan:
Ah....this is funny! So, was it wasn't about how Jehovah destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah again
I guess, all the animals in Sodom and Gomorrah were alive after Jehovah rained down fire from heaven
You this people won't kill me with laugh

First of all, heavens then was not affected but only the earth.
Secondly, So only ungodly people were exterminated at the destruction of the first earth yet you quoted the verse where it was stated that ALL LIVING CREATURES were destroyed.

Lastly, how can the whole earth be on fire and only the ungodly people will die? Do you know the temperature that'll be recorded if the whole earth will be covered by fire?
You're welcome MaxinDhouse

LilMissFavvy:
No, it does not mean the soul is dead. Read Revelations 20:10. Also read the story of Lazarus. You can remember the story of Lazarus who sat on the floor with dogs licking his wounds, he sat to pick crumbs of food from the rich man's table. The rich man wasn't a believer of Christ or had Mercy on Lazarus. Read the passage up, and find out wether when the rich man finally went to hell wether his soul died in hell , or wether his soul stayed there in hell facing pains and eternal damnation. Luke 16:19-31.

Emusan:
@color but you also believe Jehovah will DESTROY ALL LIVING CREATURES at Armageddon, isn't that wonderful?

Uchesis:
But if the soul perishes in hell, does it mean that it is dead? The bible is contradicting itself. Hell is suppose to be a place of torment, not a graveyard. If souls are going to die in hell then why the wailing and gnashning of teeth as we were told. Revelations was originally not a part of the bible. Thats where all this confusion is coming from

Mikee19:
Ooh we will have our time. We'll talk Trinity in future like I said for sure.
Until then...

Hermes119:
Well that's not special,he only needs to say things he can very well do. I can be like that as well, promise you MaxInDHouse that I will eat dinner tonight and I sure will fulfill that.

What I want to know is
If he isn't omnipotent then what are the things he can do and the things he can't

Mikee19:
Ok...
But the only thing now that separates us is that in your own exegesis you claimed that "torment" can mean "prevent a person from doing what they love" though unable to give any other real life example where it can actually mean that, but expecting that it is accepted that this is the only exception in the whole world where it means this (unless you'll now give that example here where torment means this)
pigs can't see spirits tho. Insignificant to this talk anyways.
If you are ok with believing stuff where suddenly one word means something totally different such as to back up your claim, tho you can't find it meaning so anywhere else, good for you.
But like I'd said, there's bigger fish to fry. Cheers

Mikee19:
One more thing I'll like to know:
How did the pigs see the spirits? with physical eyes or spiritual eyes? Why can pigs see them coming, but humans can't see them coming to possess them?
2) They begged to enter the pigs. Did they fully intend to enter those pigs or not? lemme quote the New World Translation so it can be clear for u to see and respond
Mar 5:12-13 NWT 12 So they entreated him, saying: "Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them." 13 And he permitted them. With that the unclean spirits came out and entered into the swine; and the herd rushed over the precipice into the sea, about two thousand of them, and they drowned one after another in the sea.

Mikee19:
You sure? You saying they wanted to be "close to humans" isn't wrong considering they didn't end up in any humans at the end? And Jesus won't be there with them in another country to prevent them from staying in someone else there? Make me understand how so pls

MaxInDHouse:
This is why i pity anyone who ignored JWs when they come preaching!

Do you think demons don't have their own domains?

For your information they're many throughout the world and most powerful ones among them are seated in public offices possessing whoever mount such a seat either as President or Governor. So their counterparts dominating other lands will not allow them in their domain!
That's why each demon move with the race it has captured and when about to take over any location it's their own worshipers that will pursue the slaves of the other spirit away, which means the spirit will have to move with his own worshipers.
So when the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob came from nowhere to rescue the Israelites without a fight all other nations throughout the earth became afraid of this SPIRIT!

Mikee19:
actually there's more
4) Even when sent out of the country, they can go into ANOTHER COUNTRY to meet other "nice humans" to interact with! The problem isn't that they cannot meet other humans again na! Again, the problem is that they wanted to remain, as said exactly in the scripture, IN THE COUNTRY! Absence of humans has absolutely no bearing on it!

Mikee19:
Inconsistent with that passage
1) Those to whom u claim "torment" meant "not mixing with nice humans" BEGGED to be sent into as pigs (not humans). They were ok to be sent into PIGS!
2) Once in the pigs they KILLED THEM and didn't even have anything they were inhabiting again! They didn't care about the pigs! They didn't care about not having a body to inhabit and be "homeless" in neither pigs nor humans! All they cared about was simply that they REMAINED IN THAT SAME COUNTRY whether they were inhabiting something or NOT!
3) Once more, just accept God's word for the EXACT WORD IT SAYS! They didn't want to go out of the country! No preference or mention is given IN THIS CONTEXT about inhabiting humans!Your exegesis is wrong!

Hermes119:
So what is the spectrum of his power

Mikee19:
MaxInDHouse consider this:
The gospels (Matthew to John) being written by different authors means that we will have different observations of the same event. This can help us in this case to determine the meaning of the word "torment" as used by them. Here is what i mean:Luke's version:
cKJV+ Luk 8:28,31: "²⁸ When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of God most high? I beg you, torment me not. … ³¹ And they begged him that he would not command them to go out into the abyss."
What you implied from this verse of scripture is that maybe by "torment" they meant "don't send us into the abyss". Meaning "torment" in this context, means "restraining in the abyss". If this is the case we should expect any other observer to report it exactly the same way. Why? Because "torment" cannot mean "restraining in the abyss" here, and go then change meaning to something else completely suddenly, no matter who is reporting it!. For example, "Fufu" reported by Bayo will still be the same "fufu" when Tunji is the one who says it; if both of them write "fufu" they CANNOT mean another thing from each other!
If "torment" truly meant "restraining in the abyss" in that particular context, then obviously it will retain the same meaning no matter which other gospel writer reports that same story, not so? This must make sense to you na, abi? This is common sense!
So let's see what somebody else reported that same story as:
cKJV+ Mar 5:7,10: "⁷ And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the most high God? I adjure you by God, that you torment me not. … ¹⁰ And he begged him much that he would not send them away out of the country."
You see the problem? "Torment" cannot mean "don't send us into the abyss" in one place and then no longer mean that, to all of a sudden become "don't send us out of the country"! That makes NO SENSE AT ALL!
No, "torment" CANNOT mean either "retaining in the abyss" or "sending out of the country" at the same time! This means it means NEITHER!
What really happened was that they made TWO DIFFERENT PLEAS to Jesus
1) Don't torment us
2) Depending on which writer you read from, EITHER "Don't send us into the abyss" or "Don't send us away from the country"
TWO DIFFERENT PLEAS!
That's the only way this makes sense!
And so each writer of the gospel only recorded what they heard. But they both heard "torment" and recorded that they told Jesus not to torment them!
Fufu means fufu. ewure means goat.
Fufu CANNOT change to cow milk suddenly simply because a different writer is giving his own account of what he heard, neither can ewure suddenly change to sunlight just because it's a different writer! In the same way "torment" cannot change from one meaning to another just because it's recorded by someone else!
"Torment" cannot NEVER mean "restraining in the abyss" because BOTH WRITERS would have recorded THE EXACT SAME THING if it were so. The fact that they didn't means it doesn't mean that AT ALL!
So whatever "torment" means, a careful comparison shows it cannot mean any other meaning that what we ordinarily know as "torment"
PROOF!

Mikee19:
WRONG!
there is a spiritual body just like there is a physical body! The spiritual realm is EXACTLY like the physical realm! They can feel harm in that realm too! This is no proof at all

LilMissFavvy:
What do you mean by kill the soul? Ezekiel 18:4 says the soul that sinneth shall die. Do you not know that the death it is talking about here simply means the soul perishing in hell?

Now look at the following scriptures and you will see that there are so many figurative expressions used to describe hell'. It is not called hell' all the time.

1st. These. 1:8-9 "mentions hell' as everlasting destruction from God's presence".
Mat. 8:12 calls it outer darkness.
Mat. 25:30. Calls it Eternal punishment.
Mat. 13:50 calls it furnace
John 15:5-6 describes it as being withered/burnt.
Revelations Has described it in many words, lake of fire, everlasting fire, etc.

So wether is is called death, hell, destruction, wither, furnace, whatever it is called simply refers to what will happen to the soul that will not make heaven (eternity, eternal life). The opposite of eternal life is eternal destruction, damnation, (hell).

Chichigi1990:
After reading this and you insist on making distinctions amongst the prophets of God( especially insisting that Prophet Mohammed wasn't sent by God), then you are not a servant of God but a friend of Satan.
Isaiah 41:21
"The LORD, the king of Israel, has this to say: "You gods of the nations, present your case. Bring the best arguments you have!
Come here and predict what will happen, so that we will know it when it takes place. Explain to the court the events of the past, and tell us what they mean.
Tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods. Do something, whether good or bad, so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear."
God is showing his supremacy above all other idols and false gods. It is only the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that can Predict the future and offer explanations to past events throught his Prophets.
The question of wheather or not Mohammed was a prophet can be tested from this chapter in Isaiah.
Did Mohammed accurately predict future events and offer explanations for past events through God who sent him?
If yes, is not right for Christians to believe that Mohammed was a Prophet sent by God and study his Prophecies?

cornelboy:
Is that not what you asked me to prove?
I don't have time for your bs.
Ona no know anything for Bible, but ona go dè run mouth everywhere.

Mikee19:
You have given a meaning absolutely not present in any dictionary! Show me your meaning from the dictionary so that we can see

Mikee19:
But you failed to supply the verb form as was used to show what it can mean!
Ok no problem. I am forced to bring the verb form since you absolutely refused to do so yourself. Here are the possible meanings from Oxford advanced American dictionary:
1 torment somebody(formal)to make someone suffer very much
2 torment somebody/something to annoy a person or an animal in a cruel way because you think it is amusing
So which of these "general meanings" is it?
Lemme also add the dictionary I use, wordweb, available online:
1. Torment emotionally or mentally
- torture, excruciate, rack, wrack
2. Harass persistently in cruel or annoying way
"The children tormented the stuttering teacher";
- rag, bedevil, crucify, dun, frustrate
3. Subject to torture
"The sinners will be tormented in Hell, according to the Bible";
- torture, excruciate
So which of these "general meanings" is it then?

Mikee19:
One thing I like about nairaland is that everything is done in public. The other time I called out a JW for subtly twisting Jesus' words to defend his doctrine, And here it'll be obvious that you had to "water down" the meaning of a word just so that your doctrine can be defended. This is in public, everyone will be able to see this

EXTREME anguish IS NOT idleness! EXTREME pain IS NOT idleness! Loool I mean!

To have a shot at it you have to throw away that "extreme" from it first sef, to just something like anguish, pain, etc, then it will still need further watering down to become idleness!

I'll let you in on a secret. Without doing what that other JW guy did in switching up Jesus' words, or you in watering down a word, you will NEVER be able to successfully defend your doctrine! Every doctrine will always fall flat on its face without this!

Mikee19:
Sir, something is a noun and another is a verb FOR A REASON. Even if they correlate, pls bring it still, whether it makes a difference or not

Mikee19:
Umm sorry sir but you have the "noun" definition of that word "torment". All these you've put here is torment as a noun.
In the verse i gave they were asking Jesus not to torment (verb) them, that's actually do something to them, i.e. torment as an action word!
So what's "torment" as a verb from your Oxford dictionary sir?

Maynman:
Unlike your yaldaboath, esu doesn’t bring wrath unwarranted. You are making no sense with all your false assumptions, it doesn’t connect. Stop disgracing yourself.
When you are alone, how do you live with yourself with so much lies? How do you cope? Don’t you have conscience,lying so bare face and shamelessly.
You know nothing about the “oriki” you are talking about, you just hurriedly copied a part of it somewhere in the books fallen watchers gave you, you are callous and shameless for Deliberately altering a bare face truth.
If you don’t stop, it’s LIES THAT WILL KILL YOU, and your master, yaldaboath will welcome you into his abode.
Your lies are too glaring and utterly flawed.

Maynman:
If you don’t stop your lies it will kill you. It is too bare face, don’t you have shame?
There’s no where it says there’s a controversy, it was explained explicitly. It has been proven to be FALSE. How do you live with your self with so much lies, have conscience you fallen watcher.
No right thinking individual will be lying so glaring like you, how are you doing it? Lying so bare face, will you be proud of your lies in the future.
How can a lying machine know what’s yielding results, you lie about the smallest thing, you are not in touch with reality again. You are shameless.