₦airaland Forum

Polynek:
One of the reasons I love Jehovah witness, you can never see Dem calling amount of Moni in the church

Money is not our problem, it's preaching and teaching from house to house that's announced as if the person is Jesus the second!

oteneaaron:
Before I begin, we need to get some terminologies defined and understood in the right context.

MYTH - A traditional story which embodies a belief regarding some fact or phenomenon of experience, and in which often the forces of nature and of the soul are personified; a sacred narrative regarding a god, a hero, the origin of the world or of a people, etc.

ALLEOGORY - A symbolic representation which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, usually a moral or political one.

The crux of my argument is this -

1. Before the Bible was ever written, there have been many God-men from antiquity with life and stories that are an uncanny copy of the Jesus of the Bible.

2. The life and story of Jesus should not be taken literal history but as a MYTH and ALLEOGORY that dramatises the eventual ascent of man into what the ancient mystery schools called the "Christ Consciousness"

With this out the way, let us begin...

HISTORY totally differs from what you just said.
If i may ask you:
Do you think everyone see Jesus as a God or that's just the opinion of some credulous religionists?
Because to Jehovah's Witnesses Jesus is a man who lived and taught his friends many things.

oteneaaron:
Before I continue, just for the benefit of doubt @MaxinDhouse
Are the points you laid up above undeniable proof that -
1. Jesus really existed and is not a mythical figure,
2. Jesus really existed and there is archeological proof to show , and
3. The life and teachings of Jesus are original and not a copy of the life and teachings of HORUS from ancient Egypt and other similar Christ figures from antiquity?
I just want to be absolutely sure that the points you gave above are your UNDENIABLE PROOF.
Kindly revert before I continue.

Get to work!
I have presented my points it's your turn to prove me wrong.
Historicity!
No one ever walked this planet has one percent of credence of Jesus' historicity.
Archeologists have done their own job so you only need to check it out. Jesus' teachings is upheld by Jehovah's Witnesses globally and everything he said is happening to them just as it's written in the Bible!

oteneaaron:
No problem.
Thank you for your patience.
In the meantime, I am still waiting for your archeological proof of Jesus's existence.

It's like you don't get it shey?
OK type "archeology on Jesus"
Either on Google Chrome, Phoenix Browser, YouTube or any other browser of your choice.
Don't just wait for others to feed you.
Go now use all these tools available on the internet to find out if Jesus is real or a myth.

As for historicity forget it, there's no evidence anyone ever walked this planet in ancient times if you say Jesus never existed!

oteneaaron:
Hahahahaha
But this is a challenge isn't it?
When I begin laying down my points, I will add proof to show you.
It was one of the requirements of the challenge.
Show me archeological proof.

My friend, archeologists are doing their own job so it's you who needs it that should go and bring whatever you think is useful here.
Please i don't want all these hide and seek, present your argument that Jesus never existed!

oteneaaron:
Calm down.
Good things take time.

I'm ever relaxed on this matter because i know that there's no evidence whatsoever that any human ever lived on this planet in ancient times if you want to argue the historicity of the man whose name, birth place, occupation, friends, teachings and modern day adherents is known globally!

oteneaaron:
Good to know.
But you didn't say anything about archeological proof to show that Jesus truly existed.
You simply asked me to search it on YouTube.
SHOW ME.

Just as you often say "i don't need to spoon-feed you Sir"
Google and YouTube are your friends. Go and find out from archeologists not just listening to some good for nothing idiots spewing gibberish about what is boldly written in the history of mankind: Jesus of Nazareth!

Where is oteneaaron?
I thought you've prepared for what to say to disprove the historicity of Jesus Christ!
Please i give you all the time in the world to go and make all your research but don't forget that your own ancestors never existed if they can't meet up with the credentials i presented regarding the historicity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth!

AntiMohammad:
No one can prove that Jesus is myth

They only read and listen to people whose IQ is low when talking about how to dispute the historicity of any person.
I am ready! Let them come in their thousands to prove that Jesus never existed then prove that others like
Alexander, King Henry, King James, Napoleon Bonaparte and others truly excited using the same criteria.
Evidence that Wright Brothers once lived?
Aeroplane!
Evidence that Benjamin Franklin once lived?
Electricity!
Evidence Karl Benz once lived?
Automobile!
Evidence that Jesus once lived?
Christians!

Let them come and disprove the historicity of the greatest man who ever walked this planet!

oteneaaron:
Let me know when you're done.

I'm done!
So bring anything you can find anywhere to dispute the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth but don't forget the points i listed above because there's no historical figure that has one percent of credence like the greatest man who ever lived on this planet: Jesus of Nazareth!

AntiMohammad:
This challenge is for all christians

NO Sir!
It's between just two persons:
Oteneaaron (atheist/agnostic) and MaxInDHouse (a Christian)
Thanks Sir!

oteneaaron:
Wait a minute.
Is that all @MaxinDhouse??
Is this the UNDENIABLE PROOF I asked for?
Is this the result from your extensive research?

Please refute what i typed with whatever research you've made. It's not about lengthy epistles but simple and undeniable FACTS!

People often mix, add and subtract from what they heard regarding stories of legends so whenever they find any story of someone who is feared by many they try to correlate their own story with the story that's heard both near and far!
Moreover the Bible revealed that there is one evil genius who challenged God in the beginning, this spirit heard God talked about how he will be exterminated and since he's in control all the religions practiced before God established Israel Satan has spread things that may result in the coming of a perfect man who will finally destroy him. Satan don't know how his killer will come to existence but he's damn sure that it can't be any of Adam's descendants because none of them could be smart enough to beat his intelligence.
That's why myths were found in different cultures about a son of God that will come and do certain things. Satan knew very well that the one coming to destroy him must be one who is as perfect as Adam and Eve in order to conquer him!

Please go to YouTube and type "archeology on Jesus"
You'll find much arguments there on what archeologists have discovered so far about this man from Nazareth!

oteneaaron:
This thread is an overflow from a earlier thread - - https://www.nairaland.com/6994962/witnesses-jehovah-documentary

I have challenged MaxInDHouse to give me undeniable proof that Jesus is a real figure from history and not a mythical figure.

This is the actual challenge:



MaxInDHouse the ball is in your court.

Shall we begin?

Did Jesus really exist or he's just a mythical figure?

Before we can answer this question we must consider how we can establish the historicity of any human in stories we've been hearing and reading in different books!

His name!
Jesus' name is translated from a Hebrew word "YEHOSHUA" which means "YAHWEH is salvation" so Jesus came from a nation known globally as Jews, it's easy to walk up to any jew and confirm that this name is from their place.
His birth place!
Jesus was born in a village in first century Judea called "Bethlehem Ephrata" and all the places surrounding this village are known till today.
His life!
Jesus grew up under the care of a carpenter (Joseph) who taught him carpentry so Jesus had a handiwork (craft) that he leant and mastered.
His friends!
Jesus made lots of friends whose names were mentioned in his story, this friends so much loved him that they were willing to die for the history of Jesus. They took his teachings to all the cities, towns, villages and far away counties back then so that there's nowhere around the Mediterranean sea that people in the first century don't know about the Jew called Jesus of Nazareth.
His teachings!
Throughout the history of mankind there has never been any human be it king or emperor whose command has lasted in the hearts and minds of people living thousands of years after his death.
His modern day followers!
People like Alexander the great, Emperor Nero, King Napoleon, King James and many others have lived and reined as Kings on this planet but today they're only remembered in history books. What about Jesus of Nazareth?
His subjects are throughout the earth today preaching zealously and industriously teaching people in their neighbourhood what Jesus commanded them. Nobody is still obeying all those kings mentioned above!

So if anyone wants to dispute the historicity of this man from Nazareth what is there to prove that any other person has lived on this planet?

achorladey:
Oga no be case of let's see if

Many have discussed this Jesus repeatedly with you. You will rather threaten them with DESTRUCTION in the long run than admit that they are not useless, hopeless, workers of LAWLESSNESS or iniquities

Na your mode of operation.

Is it not the same GardenOfGod that used your Greek interlinear to prove who Jesus is. Last last you called him false Christians since he didn't dance to your tune.

Let the challenge begin on another thread if truly oteneaaron wants it but if not then forget it!

achorladey:
So this Jesus is not of the Jehovah’s witnesses alone
Same person will go around segregating Jesus from one thread to the other just to prove his self righteousness and self glorification

All i wanted is for the one asking to acknowledge Jehovah's Witnesses as the one and only group that believes in Jesus of Nazareth that's all!

oteneaaron:
Hahahaha
Does it really matter if it is on a new thread?
No matter where it is, people will find it.

You're not ready for this challenge, are you?

achorladey:
He should direct his question to same people you already called

1. Useless

2. Hopeless

3. Workers of LAWLESSNESS

4. Workers of INIQUITIES

5. Disguised atheist

6. Atheist

7. Apostates






You want him to call you TRUE CHRISTIANS based on using the materials of those you still call false Christians who you equally believe they see Jesus as historical myth

God airpus

Let's see if regarding discussions having to do with Jesus of Nazareth these people are not:
Useless
Hopeless
Workers of lawlessness
Disguised atheists
Apostates!

oteneaaron:
Then let's focus here then.
No need creating a new thread.
Since you are a "true Christian", kindly answer the three questions I asked above with proof.
Thank you.

NO!
I want this to be trashed on a new thread since it's not the topic we are discussing here.
If truthfully you want this challenge just open a new thread and let the topic be.

"Is Jesus real? Challenge for a Christian (MaxInDHouse)"

I want all critics of Jehovah's Witnesses to be ashamed today, ṣebí they're always coming to argue with us regarding Jesus Christ!

GardenOfGod:
Mr MaxInDHouse, I don't know your own Jesus

This is really hilarious!
The oteneaaron didn't say "the Jesus of the JWs" in that case i wouldn't have asked any of you to say a word.
I will only prove that the Jesus Jehovah's Witnesses believe is a real historical figure so none of you need to join in the discussion after all it's about Jesus of Jehovah's Witnesses!

oteneaaron:
Lol.

Why are you looking for external support?

Are you doing this research for anyone else?

For me to agree to a change in the terms of this challenge, we might have to create a new thread to address this square.

But I directed this challenge at YOU.

Come to think of it, why are you involving other "Christians"?

I thought you have always called them common church goers, and have on countless occasions insulted them for their belief in a trinity?

Why do you need their support in this instance?

I would like to understand why before agreeing to these new terms.

I want you to acknowledge that only true Christians can prove that Jesus is real!
Others are CHURCHGOERS with nothing apart from credulous ideologies!

oteneaaron:
This isn't about "each person"...
This is about you showing me proof that -
1. Jesus really existed in history, and is not a mythical figure,
2. Jesus really existed based on archeological findings,
3. The life and teachings of Jesus is original and not copied from older teachings of HORUS from ancient Egypt and many other similar God - men from antiquity.
If you need time to do your research and gather your findings, kindly let me know.
There are other critical issues to trash out, but this a very good place to start.

I perfectly understand you my friend, what i want you to do first is make this a open challenge and since you said it's about me.
Please open a thread on this topic and the topic should be

"Is Jesus real or just a myth? Challenge for for a Christian MaxInDHouse"

oteneaaron:
That is why there is something called counter-research.
I have put it to you that it is a FACT that the life and story of Jesus in the Bible is not unique.
It is a cheap copy of the life and story of similar God-men from cultures thousands of years older than the Bible.
The best you can you do is show me proof from your extensive research that shows that -
1. Jesus really existed and is not a Mythical Figure,
2. Jesus really existed based on archeological findings, and
3. The teachings of Jesus is original and not copied from HORUS of ancient Egypt and many other Christ figures like Dionysus, Bacchus, Mythiras but to mention a few.
I guess we can start from there.
Show me your well researched proof, and I will show you mine.
Can we do that instead of going back and forth with the name calling?
What do you think?

I love this challenge but before we proceed i want you to rephrase your questions.

Please address your questions to all those claiming CHRISTIANS so that only those coming to speak for Jesus will be known as true believers in Christ.

“Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens" Matthew 10:32-33


Or

Rephrase your questions and specifically say "this is a challenge for Christians"
Romans 10:9

Thanks in advance!

GardenOfGod:
Hmmm this is a tough challenge for MaxInDHouse and Janosky

I'm only a spectator

On the case having to do with Jesus' historicity!
I will never be a spectator in Jesus name.
Amen!
I can be a spectator when a Muslim is arguing over your trinity but on the historicity of Jesus?

Well each person must prove what he knows about Jesus of Nazareth!

GardenOfGod:
Lol... You want me to be on your side on this one...

Wl let me go back and analyse what op wrote up there... Be right back.

Never will i want you on my side!
Once you've chosen to be on the opposing sides i love it that way because it gives each of us the opportunity to prove what he believes using the Bible.
But on this note you're on your own if you should publicly deny what you believe just to spite Jehovah's Witnesses!

True disciples of Christ must be in subjection to the superior authority {Romans 13:1-3} if the one having authority issues an order that's not against that of our Master, Lord and King Christ Jesus we must OBEY! Matthew 5:41
Jesus said:

“Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God" Mark 12:17

Caesar's things is the demands of those ruling us to make things work out within our society.
God's things are the requirements to stay on the road that leads to everlasting life.
So once the two doesn't contradict then we must obey both sides.
But in the case where those in authority gives any order that contradicts that of our heavenly King Christ Jesus then we must choose between the two! Act 4:19; 5:29

May you have PEACE!

GardenOfGod:
These two false witnesses are still giving you guys tough time after they both denounced their strongest creed in the group.

I'm putting it to you directly and please do not run away or beat about the bush now because this is the moment you need to speak out for what you believe whether others view it as right or wrong.
The question:
Is Jesus a real historical figure or just a myth?

Before you answer please read the comments of the OP regarding faith in Jesus and the Bible thanks!

oteneaaron:
In this little write-up, these terms would have their meaning in Context as follows:

GOD-- Signifies the "supreme being" from any religion ( Yahweh, Allah, Buhdda, Sango, Krishna, Oduduwa, Owoicho........etc)

MAN-- Signifies You and I ; all humans existing and non-existing(HUMANITY as a whole)

RELIGION-- signifies all of the worlds religion (after-all they are all products of the same factory)



WHO CREATED GOD??

Its no wonder that when you ask he above question to any religious minded person and you're gonna get differing answers.

Ask any creationist : "What is the proof that Man was created ? " , "how do we know that life and all there is had a designer?"

And we receive this reply that -- Man and all there is are intelligent creatures ; the human brain, the universe in general attest to the fact that everything was created by a Supreme Being...

*Please note the argument - an intelligent creation must have an intelligent designer-

So here is the correlation, If you seriously believe that "nothing came from nothing" and there has to be an explanation for our "intelligence",
then GOD must have been created too!!!

WHY?

"GOD" exists and he is very ( if not too Intelligent---common, he's GOD!!).....so what is the explanation for his Intelligence??

If the world as we know it attests to fact of the existence of a creator, then that creator must have been created because HE(GOD) bears the same (proof of an Intelligent creator) Qualities.

Now who created GOD??


Sadly, the answer has been right in Front of Us all this time........

WE created GOD!! You and I , MAN.....

When we were perplexed as to how the universe was sparse and awe-inspiring, we had to give credit to -someone- so we invented GOD

When were Scared because we felt or experience disappointment, death, sickness..etc, we needed Solace and we created GOD to blame and to beg for assistance

When we felt the need to Control our fellow MAN, we created GOD and religion to keep humans in check , after-all they must all answer to our creation -GOD-

GET IT RIGHT...

We created GOD


Now, our creation of GOD may have been a necessary evil, and MAN is growing up....the time has come for us to let go of Childish things!!

Janosky:
Achorladey is Jesus Christ an actual figure in history?
Atheists & him mentors no fit disguise themselves anymore.

Right from the moment he admitted publicly that Jesus is just a myth, i flashed back to all his arguments and i realized that he's always arguing based on the general perspective of people around him. He always avoid anything that could restrict him from moving along with the crowd.
So it's not about faith in God, Jesus or the Bible rather his goal is to become acquaintances of people in general no matter what they believe.
Right from yesterday i have decided to restrict my discussion with him to preaching about Jesus of Nazareth now that it's clear he doesn't view Jesus as a real historical figure but just as a myth!

From the moment you admitted that there are FACTS that Jesus is just a myth i have settled with you.
Thanks for confirming that you're indeed an atheist!

achorladey:
He will still come back and say

1. Achorladey as a Christian

2. Please sir, as a Christian

What are you doing on this thread? To learn from useless and hopeless apostates abi about Jesus the myth abi?

To learn about Jesus the myth from workers of iniquities abi?

Clowns everywhere!
CULT
FREEMASON
PEDOPHILE
KILLERS
........
Still counting!
But that's the one and only group practicing what Jesus taught globally and there's no group free of imperfect humans. Matthew 7:16-18
So Jesus saw everything from afar:

And you will be hated by all people on account of my name, but the one who has endured to the end will be saved. When they persecute you in one city, flee to another; for truly I say to you, you will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives. “A student is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. It is enough for the student to become as his teacher, and the slave as his master. If people have called the master of the house Be·elʹze·bub, how much more those of his household? Matthew 10:22-25

If they like let them find more labels the proof is here that Jehovah's Witnesses are Jesus' true disciples today! Matthew 5:11-12

Clowns everywhere!